MK5 Golf GTI
General => Random Chat => Topic started by: vRS Carl on December 09, 2010, 07:05:13 pm
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………… to go and give some students a bit of "education" :wink: :fighting:
I wish the police were allowed to exert more force. I'm quite sure a few anti-riot shotgun rounds would disperse them quite quickly :evilgrin:
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id love to go there and do some proper riot control, none of those mini shields, nice big shield and a Hickory stick and give em the good news.
They need a baton round to the thigh, that should sort them out
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Nah,
Run the 4ft down the shin. Peel it like a banana :evilgrin: :evilgrin:
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I dont know what their whining about, my degrees paid for by work, plus im on full pay as well. Gutted for them :grin:
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………… to go and give some students a bit of "education" :wink: :fighting:
I wish the police were allowed to exert more force. I'm quite sure a few anti-riot shotgun rounds would disperse them quite quickly :evilgrin:
count me in :happy2: :fighting:
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I'm glad to say that not all uni students are like those on the demo - My daughter doesn't agree with them. However, I'm not against peaceful protest. It's not new that leftwing extremists and trouble makers hi-jack demos and they're the ones who need dealing with more violently as they do nothing but bring violence to a demo.
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I have nothing against peaceful protest either. I also know that not all students are the same.
It's the idiots that think violence against the police and wilful destruction of property that annoys me. Especially as there will now be even less money as someone has to foot the bill (the tax payer) to fix all the damage. :fighting:
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I can't see what the problem is.......
£3k a year now - start paying it back when earning £16k or over
£6-9k in future - start paying it back when earning £21k or over.
It isn't like they will be forcing them to pay it back as soon as they earn a Tenner!
Ok, socially it is crippling to have a loan when you start work, but they are getting 4 years of freedom from work with women/men, drugs and alcohol in exchange for it instead. :signLOL:
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^^^^
:congrats: :congrats: :congrats: :congrats:
Hear! Hear! To both Carl and John Hurdy :happy2:
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Most of the idiots causing trouble on these demonstrations are not students anyway.. i've seen first hand the types of 'thugs' these people are!
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My word, I think I'm just going to step away from this debate. Yet another thing you guys and I are not going to agree on :signLOL:
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Got to say I don't agree with that at all, I think one of the main reasons students are demonstrating is because Nick Clegg said he wouldn't raise the tuition fees. It's a lot of money to pay back, £9,000 a year is daunting and scary. If I had to pay that at the start of my course I would never have started, many parents will be in the same position where it's probably best the child doesn't go to university. Whilst that might make a degree worth more it means only the rich and those with the courage to undertake that debt will sign up. The point of education is for it to be accessible to all.
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Got to say I don't agree with that at all, I think one of the main reasons students are demonstrating is because Nick Clegg said he wouldn't raise the tuition fees. It's a lot of money to pay back, £9,000 a year is daunting and scary. If I had to pay that at the start of my course I would never have started, many parents will be in the same position where it's probably best the child doesn't go to university. Whilst that might make a degree worth more it means only the rich and those with the courage to undertake that debt will sign up. The point of education is for it to be accessible to all.
....Firstly I'm afraid that it doesn't matter what Nick Clegg or the Lib Party said they would do - They didn't win the election and are only in the coalition because they were invited to be. The LibDems are not in power. I will add that I am in favour of their influence in the coalition though. But their pre-election promises are now entirely irrelevant.
If you're "daunted and scared" about owing £9k some time in the future and that's only if you can afford to pay it back, then perhaps there's no place for you in the business world. Whether it's parents or someone else who pays, university education needs funding and every student should see that any financial costs to them are an investment.... Unless they just want to piss it all away only having a good time or rioting in the streets.
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dont agree with the prats who are causing all the mess but they have a point, looking at 60k of debt over the 3 years which is a bit steep to be honest, i paid less than that for my first house!
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30% of students will pay back less than they would do now. For the rest of them, 9K over a 3 year course is 27K. They then have 30 years to pay that back. And this will probably be at a low interest rate.
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27k plus 3 years living :happy2: which is gonna be 10k a year i would have thought
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well us in scotland can expect mass imagration again :signLOL: we dont have to pay
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well us in scotland can expect mass imagration again :signLOL: we dont have to pay
....If you'd learnt anything at university you would know it's spelt "immigration" :evilgrin:
Isn't this currently being discussed and changed in Scotland? It was on BBC News today.
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30% of students will pay back less than they would do now. For the rest of them, 9K over a 3 year course is 27K. They then have 30 years to pay that back. And this will probably be at a low interest rate.
....Exactly! And for most it's not as much as £9k p.a. anyway. Plus they only have to pay back IF they can afford to. A bit of clever accounting should do the trick to extend the debt or even avoid it. It's no big deal and not worthy of a trip to the streets of London - Someone should tell them that the streets aren't paved with gold.
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we have had this discussion before robin i cant spell
and i never went to uni i must be a fookin idiot then
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we have had this discussion before robin i cant spell
and i never went to uni i must be a fookin idiot then
....Don't take it to heart - I'm only goading you :happy2:
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lets be fair, Students spend most of the week laid in bed because there are only a few lectures they have to attend each week. the rest is alleged homes study. If they did more lectures during the week you could cut down the time in university, reduce the costs and allow them to get a job quicker rather than bumming it around, protesting at every opportunity they get for what ever pathetic reason they deem necessary.
I can say this as have been studying FULL time every day and have completed my BEng (Hons) in electrical engineering in 2 years. Granted this was sponsored and I've been on full wages for the entire duration, so its easier in that respect, I've sat in lectures watching the idle sh!ts hung over, with a thumb up their a$$ not paying attention at all.
Speaking to most of them, when you ask why their at university the reply is its for the 'student experience'. Obviously they are not all like that, but there are that many bogus degrees available, i think its a waste of their time and life unless they get something worthwhile. Its widely known that a fairly large percentage (cant remember the figures) of students dont even get a job which utilizes their degree.
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lets be fair, Students spend most of the week laid in bed because there are only a few lectures they have to attend each week. the rest is alleged homes study. If they did more lectures during the week you could cut down the time in university, reduce the costs and allow them to get a job quicker rather than bumming it around, protesting at every opportunity they get for what ever pathetic reason they deem necessary.
I can say this as have been studying FULL time every day and have completed my BEng (Hons) in electrical engineering in 2 years. Granted this was sponsored and I've been on full wages for the entire duration, so its easier in that respect, I've sat in lectures watching the idle sh!ts hung over, with a thumb up their a$$ not paying attention at all.
Speaking to most of them, when you ask why their at university the reply is its for the 'student experience'. Obviously they are not all like that, but there are that many bogus degrees available, i think its a waste of their time and life unless they get something worthwhile. Its widely known that a fairly large percentage (cant remember the figures) of students dont even get a job which utilizes their degree.
....Let's be even fairer and point out that whether they only have to attend a few hours of lectures each week or not, there is a lot of hard work which they have to do if they want to succeed, and that just like at the demos, they're not ALL like some folks suggest.
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a bit of a stereotypical view i guess, but we all have one. My pet hate is people protesting and going on strike. Really grips my sh!t.
Plenty more people who would love their place in the Uni or job
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all that hard work to get a job in tesco or asda :P
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lets be fair, Students spend most of the week laid in bed because there are only a few lectures they have to attend each week. the rest is alleged homes study. If they did more lectures during the week you could cut down the time in university, reduce the costs and allow them to get a job quicker rather than bumming it around, protesting at every opportunity they get for what ever pathetic reason they deem necessary.
I can say this as have been studying FULL time every day and have completed my BEng (Hons) in electrical engineering in 2 years. Granted this was sponsored and I've been on full wages for the entire duration, so its easier in that respect, I've sat in lectures watching the idle sh!ts hung over, with a thumb up their a$$ not paying attention at all.
Speaking to most of them, when you ask why their at university the reply is its for the 'student experience'. Obviously they are not all like that, but there are that many bogus degrees available, i think its a waste of their time and life unless they get something worthwhile. Its widely known that a fairly large percentage (cant remember the figures) of students dont even get a job which utilizes their degree.
....Let's be even fairer and point out that whether they only have to attend a few hours of lectures each week or not, there is a lot of hard work which they have to do if they want to succeed, and that just like at the demos, they're not ALL like some folks suggest.
Alot of hard work to do if they do a proper degree and not something pointless.
The only thing that made me want to go to uni was the lifestyle, other than that it didnt interest me.
In the end when I had to make the choice at 16 I decided I just wanted to get decent money as quickly as possible and here I am as a gas engineer.My older sis went the uni route, did a law degree, then did some more law based studying only to now decide she wouldnt enjoy the lawyer lifestyle of being tied to a desk for 14 hours a day to become a partner. She now works for a investment firm in London, makes alright money, but is saddled with debt and still doesnt make as much money as her lowly gas engineer brother.
I dont feel that in her case she has wasted her time or money, but the people who go to uni to study photography, art, lady gaga? What the point? What are they going to use their degree for, and are they going to be making any half decent money afterwards?
If your gonna go to uni, study a proper degree, that will get you a proper job, and a proper wage.
Know so many people who have done degrees in something, to only do a job thats completely unrelated, and work alongside people with no degree.
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I dont feel that in her case she has wasted her time or money, but the people who go to uni to study photography, art, lady gaga? What the point? What are they going to use their degree for, and are they going to be making any half decent money afterwards?
If your gonna go to uni, study a proper degree, that will get you a proper job, and a proper wage.
It surely depends on what your motivated by. Education doesn't serve as a way of making money, it serves as a way of enabling people to have a career in whatever interests them. What does it matter if that makes them lots of money or not. Money isn't the route to eternal happiness you know!
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I dont feel that in her case she has wasted her time or money, but the people who go to uni to study photography, art, lady gaga? What the point? What are they going to use their degree for, and are they going to be making any half decent money afterwards?
If your gonna go to uni, study a proper degree, that will get you a proper job, and a proper wage.
It surely depends on what your motivated by. Education doesn't serve as a way of making money, it serves as a way of enabling people to have a career in whatever interests them. What does it matter if that makes them lots of money or not. Money isn't the route to eternal happiness you know!
Completely agree, but most people I know dont do degrees in stuff they are passionate about, so you might aswell do one thats gonna get you a decent wage.
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27k plus 3 years living :happy2: which is gonna be 10k a year i would have thought
Your right in sayng it will be c£60k when including living expenses, my rent when i was living in jesmond in newcastle was £70 per week plus bills and that was 5-6 years ago.. you then got food, transport, booze and skunk to budget for, i reckon i was near on £300 a week :laugh:
In my first year doing a politics degree :indifferent: i had around a 12hr week of lectures/seminars and then 2nd and 3rd years it dropped down to around 6 and 4 respectively. alot of pro evo was played in those days rather than studying so i certainly agree with Sy about reducing the course length.
Imo the problem goes back to the previous labour government when they encouraged everyone to go and set a target of 50% of school leavers. what followed with all the polytechnics been turned in to uni's and the creation of loads of new but useless degrees, ultimately done to massage the figures, is a oversubscribed and underfunded higher education system
And now we see a shortage of skilled tradesman (electricians/plumbers/builders/etc) and have to employ from abroad to make up for the shortfall, while we have loads of 20something graduates sat at home claiming the dole :stupid:
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Yes there are those there who are there just for the 'lifestyle'. They're the idiots, they are the problem to the system. Some people are genuinely there to learn (me) and hopefully improve my chances of getting a higher paid job. You wouldn't make it to the 3rd year of university in a serious course if you were pissing about.
Got to say I don't agree with that at all, I think one of the main reasons students are demonstrating is because Nick Clegg said he wouldn't raise the tuition fees. It's a lot of money to pay back, £9,000 a year is daunting and scary. If I had to pay that at the start of my course I would never have started, many parents will be in the same position where it's probably best the child doesn't go to university. Whilst that might make a degree worth more it means only the rich and those with the courage to undertake that debt will sign up. The point of education is for it to be accessible to all.
Owing somebody money in business and personal debt are two different things. £27k is a lot of money whichever way you split it, nobody should have to face that proposition. They know nobody has that sort of cash so obviously they will have to borrow and work the rest of their lives to pay it off.
....Firstly I'm afraid that it doesn't matter what Nick Clegg or the Lib Party said they would do - They didn't win the election and are only in the coalition because they were invited to be. The LibDems are not in power. I will add that I am in favour of their influence in the coalition though. But their pre-election promises are now entirely irrelevant.
If you're "daunted and scared" about owing £9k some time in the future and that's only if you can afford to pay it back, then perhaps there's no place for you in the business world. Whether it's parents or someone else who pays, university education needs funding and every student should see that any financial costs to them are an investment.... Unless they just want to piss it all away only having a good time or rioting in the streets.
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I dont feel that in her case she has wasted her time or money, but the people who go to uni to study photography, art, lady gaga? What the point? What are they going to use their degree for, and are they going to be making any half decent money afterwards?
If your gonna go to uni, study a proper degree, that will get you a proper job, and a proper wage.
It surely depends on what your motivated by. Education doesn't serve as a way of making money, it serves as a way of enabling people to have a career in whatever interests them. What does it matter if that makes them lots of money or not. Money isn't the route to eternal happiness you know!
....I couldn't agree more, Andrew - Money does NOT buy Happiness! :happy2:
And, Poverty, what gives you the right to decide for others what's "a proper job and a proper wage" etc?
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My problem with it is, it discourages working class from further education, it shouldn't do, but it will. If we want to have any chance of keeping up with Asia over the next 10 years, then we need as many educated people as we can. :santa:
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My problem with it is, it discourages working class from further education, it shouldn't do, but it will. If we want to have any chance of keeping up with Asia over the next 10 years, then we need as many educated people as we can. :santa:
I agree with that to a point but if they continue to make the exams easier so there are more passes year on year then there is absolutely no point. By all means go to uni and get your piece of paper but if it's a meaningless piece of paper then don't bother.
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I dont feel that in her case she has wasted her time or money, but the people who go to uni to study photography, art, lady gaga? What the point? What are they going to use their degree for, and are they going to be making any half decent money afterwards?
If your gonna go to uni, study a proper degree, that will get you a proper job, and a proper wage.
It surely depends on what your motivated by. Education doesn't serve as a way of making money, it serves as a way of enabling people to have a career in whatever interests them. What does it matter if that makes them lots of money or not. Money isn't the route to eternal happiness you know!
....I couldn't agree more, Andrew - Money does NOT buy Happiness! :happy2:
And, Poverty, what gives you the right to decide for others what's "a proper job and a proper wage" etc?
Its not my right to decide, I just dont want to hear people moan about their uni debts afterwards, or pay for them to go through uni via my taxes
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My problem with it is, it discourages working class from further education, it shouldn't do, but it will. If we want to have any chance of keeping up with Asia over the next 10 years, then we need as many educated people as we can. :santa:
I agree with that to a point but if they continue to make the exams easier so there are more passes year on year then there is absolutely no point. By all means go to uni and get your piece of paper but if it's a meaningless piece of paper then don't bother.
I am with you on that, the whole education system seem's devalued these days. :fighting2:
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27k plus 3 years living :happy2: which is gonna be 10k a year i would have thought
+1. This is something people forget - they concentrate on the tuition fees but there's also living costs to consider as part of the student debt.
Students spend most of the week laid in bed because there are only a few lectures they have to attend each week. the rest is alleged homes study.
The entire point is that is that it's meant to be self-directed learning. You have a 'skeleton' from which to develop your own studying. Otherwise it stops being university (originally designed for academia) and it just "school". Besides, not all courses would benefit. I used to have lectures pretty much everyday 9-5. Where would you have added the extra lectures? :grin:
...more lectures during the week...cut down the time in university...
Personally, I'd say to reduce the summer holidays - three months per year was an immense amount of time to take off. Not all courses
Speaking to most of them, when you ask why their at university the reply is its for the 'student experience'.
+1 for reducing "unnecessary" degrees. There are degrees in subjects for which it'd have been better to have done apprenticeships. By making lots of mickey-mouse degrees, you decrease the value of a degree. Twenty years ago, it would have been a golden ticket. Now it's more a rite-of-passage.
My problem with it is, it discourages working class from further education, it shouldn't do, but it will
+1. I've always believed university education should be provided on the basis of academic ability, rather than financial ability. There are some very bright people who never went to university but could easily have attained 1:1.
If your gonna go to uni, study a proper degree, that will get you a proper job, and a proper wage.
As above, university was never meant to "provide a wage". You need mathematicians and physicists breaking new ground, developing new theories etc. It's how we arrived at computers. It's how we will solve various scientific problems, some of which may lead to social advancement.
Its not my right to decide, I just dont want to...pay for them to go through uni via my taxes
But people have done this for years - look at the previous generation. They all had a "free education" of the backs of taxpayers. Yet now the current generation suddenly has to pay for the same thing. IMO that's not right. But it's not right to force older generations to "back-pay" for their degrees!
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Students spend most of the week laid in bed because there are only a few lectures they have to attend each week. the rest is alleged homes study.
The entire point is that is that it's meant to be self-directed learning. You have a 'skeleton' from which to develop your own studying. Otherwise it stops being university (originally designed for academia) and it just "school". Besides, not all courses would benefit. I used to have lectures pretty much everyday 9-5. Where would you have added the extra lectures? :grin:
...more lectures during the week...cut down the time in university...
Personally, I'd say to reduce the summer holidays - three months per year was an immense amount of time to take off. Not all courses
Fully agree. Doing a degree there is a lot of self teaching that comes with the level of academia expected of you. and that definitely shouldn't be removed., just condensed. My course was full 9-5 lectures 5 days a week. If anything id have said it was to condensed to the point of ridiculousness at times, the amount of extra work we had to undertake in the evenings doing design work etc meant that i was working up until midnight at least 4 nights a week.
But as you say alot of guys would have been better off doing an apprenticeship and then an OU/work sponsored degree. It works great for me, plus you then have a base of knowledge on the subject matter prior to arriving. your more likely to land a job then as well.
Most employers aren't that bothered about qualifications. One of the biggest thinks they want is experience and this is why alot of students don't end up working in the line of work that they expected when starting/choosing their degree.
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I dont feel that in her case she has wasted her time or money, but the people who go to uni to study photography, art, lady gaga? What the point? What are they going to use their degree for, and are they going to be making any half decent money afterwards?
If your gonna go to uni, study a proper degree, that will get you a proper job, and a proper wage.
It surely depends on what your motivated by. Education doesn't serve as a way of making money, it serves as a way of enabling people to have a career in whatever interests them. What does it matter if that makes them lots of money or not. Money isn't the route to eternal happiness you know!
....I couldn't agree more, Andrew - Money does NOT buy Happiness! :happy2:
And, Poverty, what gives you the right to decide for others what's "a proper job and a proper wage" etc?
Its not my right to decide, I just dont want to hear people moan about their uni debts afterwards, or pay for them to go through uni via my taxes
....The moment any taxes you pay has been handed to the government, you have virtually no say in how they are spent - It's no longer your money, you've given it away, or should I say had it taken from you. The only influence you can have on how a government decides to spend its money is by your vote in a general election. So why be bothered about it or about whether moaners moan.
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because we all hate moaners and benefit fraudsters.
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My problem with it is, it discourages working class from further education, it shouldn't do, but it will. If we want to have any chance of keeping up with Asia over the next 10 years, then we need as many educated people as we can. :santa:
....If someone is truly intelligent/bright enough it A) won't discourage them, and B) they'll succeed whether they're working class or not.
Alan Sugar isn't exactly a shining example of a great human being but he is most definitely very working class (and still is) and very 'successful' in business.
The UK stands very little chance of ever competing with Asia no matter what happens regarding university education - Fundamentally English people simply don't have the same work ethic or willingness to work as hard as Asians generally do. That's the same whether you term "Asians" as Far Eastern, Chinese, or Indian. People in this country simply aren't hungry enough.
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because we all hate moaners and benefit fraudsters.
....Well I don't. Life's too short to be bothered.
If someone wants to moan that's their problem not mine if they're negative thinkers.
If someone does benefit fraud, I don't care. Surely most of us have got friends who or know people who have taken advantage of the system. The system takes advantage of you, so....
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one word, 'Integrity'
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one word, 'Integrity'
....I'm honest about my morals but perhaps my morals may be different in some areas. Different societies have different morals.