MK5 Golf GTI

All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: chedone on December 17, 2010, 08:38:24 am

Title: loss of power at 4000rpm with revo stage 2
Post by: chedone on December 17, 2010, 08:38:24 am
hi i have a 05 gti with 80k on it recently done stage 2 and i seem to have a loss off power from 4000rpm

originaly i had setting on b7 t5 f7 but have been reading on here and a fair few people are saying change fueling to 9 which i have now done as soon as i did it the car was fine palled all the way through faster than it has ever been but then got in it the day after and back to the same no power after 4000rpm rrrrrrr so anoying

and i keep getting "system to lean off idel bank 1"

i have full miltek
latest DV
changed fuel filter
changing the HPFP cam follower this weekend


im guessing its the fuel pump but dont want to buy a new one then find its not that, also ive read it could be fuel pressure sensor as mine is the AXX engine code

if anyone could shed any light on this it would be great

cheers

simon
Title: Re: loss of power at 4000rpm with revo stage 2
Post by: PDT on December 17, 2010, 08:56:14 am
Rather than guessing the required settings based what you read on forums i would reccomend spealing to your local revo dealer and paying for a setup/ testing session.
Title: Re: loss of power at 4000rpm with revo stage 2
Post by: chedone on December 17, 2010, 09:50:43 am
it was set up correctly with the fueling at 5 and was fine for a about a week then i started to get this system to lean off idle issue then not pulling past 4000rpm

we took some logs and all seems to be making actual and requested on fuel rail pressure and boost

but when we were testing it was not to bad as it is very intermitent
Title: Re: loss of power at 4000rpm with revo stage 2
Post by: vRStu on December 17, 2010, 09:57:27 am
Do you have an aftermarket high pressure fuel pump?
Title: Re: loss of power at 4000rpm with revo stage 2
Post by: chedone on December 17, 2010, 10:08:03 am
no

im guessing i need one but dont understand why it was ok to start with
Title: Re: loss of power at 4000rpm with revo stage 2
Post by: vRStu on December 17, 2010, 10:11:07 am
Yep I'd say you need one.

At lower RPMs but with the increased demand the fuel pump doesn't flow enough fuel.  I'm assuming you understand the fuel flow and in some respects pressure is directly linked to engine RPM.
Title: Re: loss of power at 4000rpm with revo stage 2
Post by: Janner_Sy on December 17, 2010, 03:19:33 pm
you shouldn't require one at stage 2 though, i say get yourself to a dealer and get them to reset the settings as that power band is exactly where fuel cut normally occurs.
Title: Re: loss of power at 4000rpm with revo stage 2
Post by: vRStu on December 17, 2010, 03:38:21 pm
If you run stage 2 on anything much more than very sedate settings then the pump will struggle to cope. Not forgetting the car has a reasonable mileage on it so may well be worn.

I have also read that as cars get older these pumps are beginning to fail.
Title: Re: loss of power at 4000rpm with revo stage 2
Post by: KRL on December 17, 2010, 03:43:09 pm
Why are you running F7 and F5 without an uprated HPFP?

Problem seems quite simple to me in that you are likely getting fuel cuts because your pump cannot keep up at lower RPM as Stu already said.  I would stick with f9/8 on the standard pump.

As has already been said the above is only speculation until you can log the car.
Title: Re: loss of power at 4000rpm with revo stage 2
Post by: chedone on December 17, 2010, 03:58:38 pm
if it is the pump that is failing can i just upgrade the internals (autotech) or would the whole pump need replacing?

when i put it to f9 the car was great for about a day then back to normal

cheers
Title: Re: loss of power at 4000rpm with revo stage 2
Post by: vRStu on December 17, 2010, 04:04:42 pm
I would suggest a new pump personally. You can buy a new one for around £130 iirc and then add internals or go the APR route of a prebuilt pump..

Title: Re: loss of power at 4000rpm with revo stage 2
Post by: RedRobin on December 17, 2010, 04:22:12 pm
.
I'm also running an 05 GTI with Revo Stage2 and nearly 90k miles, so very similar plus I have a Forge Twintake. I've been running this setup for some time and without problems. The tuning side of my car is looked after by JKM  :notworthy:

I'm running B7 / T5 / F8 and don't need an upgraded fuel pump. But as PDT advises, see your remap agent (Revo?) rather than copy anyone else's settings.
Title: Re: loss of power at 4000rpm with revo stage 2
Post by: chedone on January 04, 2011, 01:32:24 pm
right changed the fuel pump fixed it for about 10miles then back to to the prob again and fault code returned

Title: Re: loss of power at 4000rpm with revo stage 2
Post by: bacillus on January 04, 2011, 02:45:04 pm
Could you post the full vcds error message?

Out of interest did you just change hpfp leaving the old attached sensor on the 'new' pump?
Title: Re: loss of power at 4000rpm with revo stage 2
Post by: chedone on January 05, 2011, 01:05:06 pm
changed the hole pump from another car and reg nightmare !!!!

this has all come about since i put my miltek on thinking about it

this is a code from the snap on scanner

08567 SYSTEM TOO LEAN OFF IDLE - BANK 1

P2177 INTERMITTEND

same thing comes on vag com

i had stage one revo and then put the miltek on the the light came on so i took it back and upgraged the map to stage 2 and the light still came back on..........?????

Title: Re: loss of power at 4000rpm with revo stage 2
Post by: Hedge on January 05, 2011, 01:11:48 pm
When you say changed the fuel pump, do you mean an uprated one such as APR or Autotech or just the standard OEM HPFP?
Title: Re: loss of power at 4000rpm with revo stage 2
Post by: vRS Carl on January 05, 2011, 01:59:13 pm
As has been said you can't just run other people's settings without logging.

It is known for people to get fuel cuts on Stage 2 (i did and i know of a couple of others who have)

Ideally you need to log the car so you can see what is happening when the issue occurs.

It sounds like it is the pump but logging would give a better idea.

If you can find someone nearby with VCDS then log blocks 115 (Boost Specified & Actual) 114 (N75 Duty Cycle) and 230 (Fuel Rail pressure Specified and Actual). Also do another log on blocks 115, 114 and 020 (Cylinder Timing). Make sure turbo mode is activated (the VCDS owner should know what i mean)

When you log find a empty stretch of road or a private road. Ideally do the log in 3rd or 4th gear. Start at 2000rpm and floor the car to 6000 rpm (no need to go higher and i am NOT instructing you to speed on a public road). This puts the car under a consistent load and will help identify any problem areas.

If you don't know what to look at with the logs PM me and i'll give you my email and have a look at them. Or if you know how post them up on here.

This will help rule out the issue being the pump and also if it is timing pull. T5 should be fine but you may aswell check.
Title: Re: loss of power at 4000rpm with revo stage 2
Post by: chedone on February 22, 2011, 01:35:21 pm
all fixed thanks to the phirm

ended up being the injectors so had all the valves cleaned as they were all coked up while the inlet was off.

car runs sweet now

first class down at THE PHIRM !!!!  thanks guys
Title: Re: loss of power at 4000rpm with revo stage 2
Post by: RedRobin on February 22, 2011, 03:03:53 pm
all fixed thanks to the phirm

ended up being the injectors so had all the valves cleaned as they were all coked up while the inlet was off.

car runs sweet now


....Glad to hear all running sweet again  :happy2:

Are you thinking of now having a catch tank system re your valves?
Title: Re: loss of power at 4000rpm with revo stage 2
Post by: chedone on February 22, 2011, 09:15:17 pm
yeah i just put the BSH revamp kit on but was thinking of the catch tank or the guys at the phirm said about water injection..


not to sure at the moment looking in to it as it was really bad. what are you running
Title: Re: loss of power at 4000rpm with revo stage 2
Post by: RedRobin on February 23, 2011, 12:12:04 am
^^^^
I'm now running the Forge catch tank system. I was running the BSH but although functional there were things I didn't like about it.

Forge review:   http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,16343.0.html