MK5 Golf GTI
General => Random Chat => Topic started by: Betty02 on December 17, 2010, 08:45:10 am
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Major cock ups with the car. Basically I traded the Twingo in, I owed roughly £4500 on the Twingo and the car garage agreed to give me that and settle the finance on the Twingo. So they did that then i started a finance deal on the Golf. What they didn't realise is they had also knocked the £4500 of the price of the golf too. They only realised this yesterday and I signed the contract over a week ago now.
As far as I was aware the contract is a legal binding document? Therefore it is there mistake so I shouldn't be asked to cancel the finance and start a new one for the whole amount including the missed out £4500 - this is what they want.
I'm not into ripping people of and at the end of the day it was there mistake! I have offered to pay and extra £2250 and they sort out the the extra £2250.
Just want to know where I stand legally on this? Will be ringing CAB today to try get an appointment but will be lucky around this time of year.
I shouldn't need to be paying out the extra £2250 but as a gesture of good will I said I would. If not I will be claiming back the following.
6th December - Twingo payment - £189
7th December - Golf payment - £145
7th December - Insurance change - £256.75
7th December - Plate on retention - £105
15th December - Plate assigned to gold - £80
(Things I will be claiming back if they want the car back too)
Plate retention again - £105
Plate transfer again - £80
Twingo Payment (as it will be coming back) - £189
Petrol to garage and back - £150
Let alone my credit rating will go down as it will be so many finance deals in such a short space of time. That all amounts to £1200 which I would try and claim back.
Confusing I know but ANY help would be appreciated!
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As long as the contracts arevall legit and completed correctly then you are entitled to leave things as they are. I would not offer any form of part payments and get a good solicitor, ask the company to deal directly to the solicitor and keep out of it.
If it does come to you paying it back claim the mistake was theirs and any extra money you pay back shoukd be minus any legal costs.
Did they pay the balance on the other cars finance?
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Have you taken delivery of the new car already?
If you have then they cant do anything. It is there mistake and they will have to live with it. The made you an offer, both parties signed the contract therefore it is a mistake they will have to live with.
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read the small print first, but i agree with PDT. its their mistake, unfortunate but its now their problem not yours, keep your good will gesture and use it to engage a solicitor should you need one.. CAB wont get you very far whereas a few hundred with a decent solicitor will read over the contract and then shut the door on them for you. :happy2:
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Have the car already yeah got that a week ago too. Also the finance on the old car has been paid.
Is that 100% water tight that I legally don't need to give anything back?
Wish I got free legal aid lol, prices of a solicitor and near xmas isn't the easiest thing to pay for.
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The deal is done. You are the legal owner of the Golf. It is their mistake. The sales person and their manager will be in a lot of trouble over this. Do not let them bully you or try and convince you that you have any duty - legally or morally - to help them correct their mistake.
It is their responsibility to ensure the numbers add up and that the deal makes sense for them commercially. As long as you did not misrepresent the vehicle you traded in (ie. claimed it was something it was not) then they have no way to touch you.
Your offer to split the difference with them is more than generous and they would be mad not to accept it. Peronally I would ring them and say that you have thought about it and you are so disappointed that, after your extremely generous offer, they have still tried to get you to sign another finance deal to cover their error that your offer to split the difference with them has now been withdrawn.
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you need to get hold the terms and conditions of the sale and any policies relating to it from either the garage/network or/and the finance company and read them over. if they echo the contract then youre fine. wait for the garage to react legally and then approach a solicitor once youre aware of the action/route they are taking
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I read the T/C's all last night, both I and my Dad did, there was no ''clause'' that we found that said they could take the car of me as basically the finance company now own the car not the garage so I am guessing they might be on my side? I don't want to ring the finance company and say there was a mistake in-case they cancel my policy or something so will leave that out.
Most of the T&C's were about miss-payments etc something which I have never done in the years I have had cars on finance.
I agree with everybody it's the problem they should rectify it. Cutting there losses at £2.5 - Considering they have my car up for £1.5k more then they bought it for I'd settle for loosing a grand if I was them! And that's with me being generous enough to offer to pay half - I don't rip people of so did it out of the kindness of my heart. if they carry on pushing for the full wack then I will withdraw my offer and they can settle the big loss.
I will wait to see what today's phonecall brings, and see what they say. I will stand my ground and not be bullied into making a choice I don't wish too. They will be after £250 a month. I am simply not willing to pay for this for all the hassle of there mistake.
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first of all mate, this is a business transaction.. good will and youre feelings of a gesture will make you look as though you were aware of the fault at point of sale and by the letter of the law it will by purpose indicate that you signed fraudulently and so void the contract.
its their mistake and you need to focus on that and that alone, all feelings of right and wrong dont come into it. they miscalculated so someones getting a b0ll0cking more than likely so they will lean on you from all angles to resolve it.
honestly, you just need to close ranks dude, tell them you empathise with them but that empathy is all you can offer them, contracts are there to bind and protect both parties and you will be sheltering within that contract. There's nothing they can do about it, i dont even think they can legally chase you for it it either!
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WOW, was this a VW dealer ?
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id call straight back and withdraw your offer. as VC says, wait for them to contact you, then seek legal advice, but id be on the phone now telling them that you wont be paying a good will gesture.
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first of all mate, this is a business transaction.. good will and youre feelings of a gesture will make you look as though you were aware of the fault at point of sale and by the letter of the law it will by purpose indicate that you signed fraudulently and so void the contract.
its their mistake and you need to focus on that and that alone, all feelings of right and wrong dont come into it. they miscalculated so someones getting a b0ll0cking more than likely so they will lean on you from all angles to resolve it.
honestly, you just need to close ranks dude, tell them you empathise with them but that empathy is all you can offer them, contracts are there to bind and protect both parties and you will be sheltering within that contract. There's nothing they can do about it, i dont even think they can legally chase you for it it either!
Offer will be withdrawn instantly then. Cheers for the help, good to know legally I am in the write and I just need to shut up shop and stand my ground! Great bit of help and info! Very very helpful and put my mind at ease a lot.
WOW, was this a VW dealer ?
Nope mate garage up in Blackburn.
id call straight back and withdraw your offer. as VC says, wait for them to contact you, then seek legal advice, but id be on the phone now telling them that you wont be paying a good will gesture.
Offer withdrawn. I will await for them to come back at me and just like VC says empathise with them but do nothing.
Just rang and said I would like to withdraw my offer, but of huff and puff and he tried to talk legal. Said I have no time for this during my working hours and to contact me out of my hours. Will see if I receive a call later!
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make sure you dont get into any shouting matches with them, listen carefully to anything they say and wright it down. If he threatens legal then simply say politely that you will be adhering to the contract that both parties signed willingly and will await further responce from him should he/they choose to act. Your decision should now be to say that theres nothing you wish to pursue other than to honour your contract and close communication with them
if they do act then engage a solicitor with the paperwork they send you, take the info to a few solicitors locally - look for ones that specialise locally in contractual law and then hand it over. If the garage contact you after this point you simply inform them that all correspondence both verbally and written should be via your solicitor.
you shouldnt need to contact the finance company either as this is a fault at point of sale and not a finance issue, they have a sum owed and youre paying it.
simples :happy2:
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Topic printed. Main points highlighted so I have quick reference when they call. Fingers and toes crossed for now!
Thanks again for all the help! I will keep you all up-to-date!
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if they call then just say you will be in touch with a solicitor, then give them his/her details and ask them not to contact you anymore,
i take it you didnt get a service plan aswell! :signLOL:
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i take it you didnt get a service plan aswell! :signLOL:
:signLOL:
keep us updated with it dude, good luck :happy2: :popcornsoda:
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sounds like you got a bargain :signLOL: echo with everything said above
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Sorry to hear of the problems you have been having betty02 but i agree 100% with everything VC has said! As you say you have tried to offer them half of what you (should) have paid in the first place and it is still not good enough for them, also lets get real here, do you really think they care about you!? like most dealers all they really care about is the cash in your pocket. How many times have you been to a dealers and they want to do everything they can to help you before you sign the contract, as soon as you sign it's instantly that little bit harder to get in touch with them each time. So simple, let those personal feelings go in this case, look out for number one and as many have said it's their mistake!!! I would be very similar to yourself to be honest, i would almost feel guilty about it but one thing i have leant is, don't! it won't get you anywhere.
I hope all gets sorted for you, with the extra cash in YOUR hand!!.
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Congrats on a cracking deal mate - VC has put in some sound advice :happy2: Keep us all posted on how this one pans out.
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Theres no way they can make you pay for their error. So now think of all the mods you can get for £4500 :jumping:
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as said above once you sign thats it they dont want to know you .
all that will happen the sales guy wont be getting a big bouns
this crimbo. the deal now is with you and finance company
not the dealer. they can take the hit .they make enough
stand your ground dont let them frighten you
whats the worst that can happen you pay them what you owe
good luck
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I would be avoiding verbal communication as much as possible unless you want to say something to them that they cant prove. Without it in writing its all worthless. Also if you are sufferign from guilt, just think that the dealer isnt actually losing £4,500 a portion of that will be there profit and as you mentioned earlier they have put your car up for sale at £1500 more than they offered you so all in all they are probably only a small margin down and if you make it difficult for them they will lose interest.
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were waiting red robin :popcornsoda: :popcornsoda: :drinking:
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Worse news ever. There refusing to pay the remaining balance on Twingo.
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As others have already said, especially VC.
At this stage I would refuse all verbal communications from them and leave them to act as they think fit. Some solicitors will give you a first consultation free of charge - It's one way of establishing how you stand legally. CAB can advise of course. Always use a specialist solicitor, whatever the case - They have the experience and are more up to speed on the issue.
Above all, don't lose any sleep over this and you don't need to do anything - The onus is entirely on them. :happy2:
Worse news ever. There refusing to pay the remaining balance on Twingo.
....Just seen this ^
The gloves are off! They're trying to scare you. Consult both CAB and a solicitor. And still don't lose any sleep over it! :happy2:
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Worse news ever. There refusing to pay the remaining balance on Twingo.
Doesn't the contract you've signed say they will?
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Have you completed all the V5 forms and have they been sent back to the respective parties, as if so then you should be ok, as technically they have bought a car with finance outstanding and as the new owners are now liable.
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Do you have a sales contract or receipt that shows the Twingo and its finance settlement as part of the deal?
How did you find out? Did they tell you and if so what did they say?
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Just to poke the fire, personally I'd be just sorting out new finance and trying to get a large gesture of sorry from them, I really couldn't be bothered with all the hassle. But I suppose if u just hand it to a soliciter and don't lose sleep over it then it wouldn't be too bad.
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Spoke to twingo finance people. If the £5000 doesn't get paid it all comes back to me and I get in sh*t despite what happens as nothing was legally signed to say they will pay it. Despite verbal and emails but nothing legal.
So rang them back and said as the Twingo is legally still mine I will come to collect, they refused blah blah.
I don't want to be stuck with paying 2 cars and only own 1 so I had to do something.
Theres a £4500 difference missing and I said of the record I am willing to pay £1500 and then cut there loss's at that. He has gone away to think about the deal and will ring me in the morning.
I know I shouldn't be but I don't want to be left with £5k hanging over my head and I love the golf too much.
Will work out paying £200 a month for the golf - Still a good deal?
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I'm not suggesting you shouldn't arrive at a deal but you've nothing to lose by getting proper legal advice and everything to gain - I suggest getting legal advice anyway.
I do very strongly suggest that everything henceforth is put in writing.
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^^^^^^^
What RR said. Big style.....
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If this was joe bloggs you were dealing with id say do the honourable thing. But as its just a garage who wouldnt give two monkeys if it was the other way around, id say seek legal advice asap, and dont continue any correspondance with them. Everything should go through your lawyers.
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if they don't settle off the finance on the twingo, they can't sell it?? so they will be out of pocket even further. on you rinvoice it should state the part exchance price, and the outstanding finance. the invoice should be enough to say that the twingo has been paid off for example:
Purchase price of the car £10,00
Part exchange £5,000
Sub Total £5,000
Settlement £4,500
Sub Total £9,500
Amount due from finance company £9,000
Balance £500
Deposit £500
Left to pay £0
If there is a settlement figure on there that has been added back onto the purchase price after the part exchange then that proves that they have taken into account all outstanding finance and you are covered. Seriously seek legal advice. I don't know about you but the £1500 you have offered them is a lot of money to me, and a few sleepless nights may be par for the course.
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I wouldnt have offered anything untill id have spoken to a soliciter. you have plenty of time, id just wait for them to call, then make sure you record the call and make sure he knows its being recorded. then just take everything to a soliciter and see what they say, that just imo. :smiley:
and no car is worth loosing sleep over :happy2:
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This isn't the stress I need after spending 4 weeks in hospital with a heart condition.
Spoke to cab today they can't do anything due to the snaking, same with trading standards they all say it's a civil matter.
I just worry as I spoke to finance if it doesn't get paid they will still take it out of my account. As the garage were not offering to pay that then I couldn't afford that, that's why I cane up with this deal. Will see tomorrow :(
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One more thing to consider Betty, if they agree to your offer, make 100%, before you hand over the cash that the remaining finance on the twingo is payed!! As everyone keeps saying, even if you get a letter written up by a solicitor stating you will pay x amount and the dealer will settle the finance. Because i wouldn't put it past them taking your cash and saying you still owe money on the twingo! Solicitors without a doubt on this one my friend!!
p.s Do not let yourself get stressed with this, it's not a big deal. At the end of the day worst comes to the worst you give the golf back, you can find another one! but don't get ill over it!.
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Any update Betty?
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Twingo is still there. They had a legal advisor when I went to collect it there I didn't know but nothing came of that.
Went to drive it home heard a knocking, pulled up and rear wheel was point in towards the boot, got under the car in 10 inch of snow and the rear suspension had snapped, the suspension arm I think/damper had also snapped and wheel was pissed. major camber.
Rang them up really really annoyed, they came and collected the car and are fixing it for free, I reclaimed my fuel costs there and back, they will pay my next months finance on the Twingo if it goes out and they still have the car.
As far as the Golf I did sign a new contract despite all my efforts they were point blank refusing to pay the Twingo finance, got the golf in the end for £7500 so isn't too bad really. After though I was thinking they wouldn't of done that if they knew they were correct and not in the wrong, but anyway I just got worried of needing to still pay the Twingo and the golf I just point blank couldn't afford it whilst this was on-going especially after xmas.
Once Twingo is home I am doing a voluntary contract termination and giving it back, not costing a penny as I have paid so much of it so it just simply goes back then that's it.
Not the best outcome guys I know but just the hassle, strain and worry of £5k handing over my head for the Twingo just wasn't good. Still got some fuel costs back and a GTi for £7.5k I guess.
Just want to thank you all for your help though guys some points in this thread certainly made him stumble a few times, the best thing about it was the long pauses. I would make a valid point it would be quiet for a good 30-60 seconds whilst he thought of a worthy reply.
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When this is all said and done thank them by posting them a turd or 2 through the letterbox. :wink:
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When this is all said and done thank them by posting them a turd or 2 through the letterbox. :wink:
next time your part exchanging stick the turd in the heater matrix
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Not the best outcome guys I know but just the hassle, strain and worry of £5k handing over my head for the Twingo just wasn't good. Still got some fuel costs back and a GTi for £7.5k I guess.
Everyone on here can probably look back at a deal they've done and with hindsight, think it could have turned out better. If you've learnt something from the 'experience' then great, but I agree that there's no point dwelling on it and thinking "what if..."
As you say, the main thing is that it's sorted and you can get on with Christmas, without the additional stress of 'unexpected' financial worries! :drinking:
Have a good one! :santa: