MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Modifications & Technical Area => Performance Modifications => Topic started by: rich83 on December 22, 2010, 04:47:55 pm
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http://www.backdraftmotorsport.com/2-0tfsik04s2.html (http://www.backdraftmotorsport.com/2-0tfsik04s2.html)
Am i reading that correctly? I thought that S2 was about 320bhp?
Rich
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Maybe what they call their stage2, but it does use stage2+ revo software.
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Yep, thats stage 2+..
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thats the full shebang, intake, intercooler, exhaust, fuel pump. there's nothing else you could add to that really without going BT on
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I know the pic shows an IC, but its not mentioned in the description!
So 370 with S2+ ? Is that do-able? It sound A LOT!!
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Plenty of people have made 370bhp with stage 2+, Rich.
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I know the pic shows an IC, but its not mentioned in the description!
So 370 with S2+ ? Is that do-able? It sound A LOT!!
its dependant on dyno. if you go to awesome @ the moment then you will see 360-370hp. if you go to AMD you'll get 390hp if you go to JKm you'll get 330Hp. Id average the lot and that s prob about rigfht, which is about 360hp
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I know the pic shows an IC, but its not mentioned in the description!
So 370 with S2+ ? Is that do-able? It sound A LOT!!
its dependant on dyno. if you go to awesome @ the moment then you will see 360-370hp. if you go to AMD you'll get 390hp if you go to JKm you'll get 330Hp. Id average the lot and that s prob about rigfht, which is about 360hp
I'd second that... Not a bad price either really for what you get..
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We generally see 350-380 from stg2+ depending on the cars spec.
Mine makes around 382bhp with settings of b9-t8-f5 but it has gone into limp mode a few times with these settings so I stick with t-6 and b-8 with 368bhp for everyday use.
The dyno we use is a dynodynamics (same software and hardware as JKM) and we have had many cars on that have been tested on othe DD dynos with figures within 1-2% tolerance being made. Not sure why JKM seem to get such low figures.
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We generally see 350-380 from stg2+ depending on the cars spec.
Mine makes around 382bhp with settings of b9-t8-f5 but it has gone into limp mode a few times with these settings so I stick with t-6 and b-8 with 368bhp for everyday use.
The dyno we use is a dynodynamics (same software and hardware as JKM) and we have had many cars on that have been tested on othe DD dynos with figures within 1-2% tolerance being made. Not sure why JKM seem to get such low figures.
Perhaps they strap the cars down more effectively then other tuners perhaps??
Do you run your cars in 3rd Gear or do you run in 4th?? the lower the gear ,the more likely you will see wheel spin and record high power/torque figures??
Have you ever run any stock Mk5's and if so, whats your "normal" readout compared to Vw's claimed output?
Jkm's rollers aernt on the stingy side, just more realistic for modifications done, rather then an increase of 150 bhp as your stating for a few modifications out of the same size turbo!
In my opinion 100bhp is about the limit or a realistic increase on a k04's potential without adding laughing gas or going as janner_sy says a BT.
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must admit my vRS was plus minus 2Hp on the 4 dyno dynamics rollers i used. one of which were
JKM-portsmouth,
Alan jeffrey-plymouth,
IAM motorsport-kent and
Sanspeed kent.
Perhaps they strap the cars down more effectively then other tuners perhaps??
could quite easily be this. Think this was after the surrey RR day. He didnt make the figures he did @ surrey RR, so they went to new rollers iirc and made them
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fvid208.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fbb291%2Fkiller7_123%2Fth_DSCF2237.jpg&hash=3adfd6fc386738a3aa71952458b99163181cd422) (http://s208.photobucket.com/albums/bb291/killer7_123/?action=view¤t=DSCF2237.flv)
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:signLOL: jkm the gods of rr results :signLOL: bollox they must just like giving low numbers to you southerners :signLOL:
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Standard GTI on our dyno made 198.2bhp on Saturday, PD140 audi a4 made 142bhp and a standard ED30 made 231bhp last week.
strapping cars may be one thing, but as long as you strap according to the way that DD instruct you to do so durung your training then you cant go far wrong, most cars we run in 3rd gear, if strapped and loaded up correctly with the correct settings in the dyno then wheelspin isnt a problem, wheelspin is obvious. When you look at a graph and the operator will see it instantly.
I know a fair few Revo dealers that also see a consistent 350+ from stage2+ on a dyno dynamics dyno so its a mystery. We have a customer that has an s3 with stg2+ software, it made 357hp on ours and 398hp on another local dyno (not dyno dynamics) so shows that some will read sensible figures, other tuners use their dyno as smile machines :grin:
Choose your tuner, use their dyno for comparisons before/after mods, dont bother going 'number shopping' around dynos and you will get a good consistent repeatable comparison.
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:signLOL: jkm the gods of rr results :signLOL: bollox they must just like giving low numbers to you southerners :signLOL:
haha makes you spend more moneys you see :xmaspresent:
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best way would be for someone to do a dyno run a few RR's...then have their engine removed and ran on an engine dyno.
THEN we can say who's crap and who's closer to the truth.
:happy2:
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Infact just go on superchips rollers and get 500+ if your after numbers on a sheet :signLOL:
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PDT...
Do you have a dyno graph for your own demo car that we can see with this 368bhp?
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Surrey RR day results( dyno dynamics)
Hedge 327/308
NB07 300/306
Mitch Not running right, didn't take the figure down
Phil Mcavity 292/297
Wigit 300/315
Oli 305/295
Skavia 293/275
Mark 280/268 (faulty MAF)
Pako 292/282
Robin 245/280
NeilM 334/303
Knight 249/230
Pummy 308/283
CupraK1 323/308
DanGB 391/365 :jumpmove:
CMDFire 229/245 (not boosting properly)
DomT 330/310
Thor 224/207
Stu 335/338
Hedge, neil M, DomT and stu were the stage 2+ cars. So they are pretty similar to JKMs results as well. so they are still 30Hp lower than yours!! Cupra K1 left there and went to another set of DD rollers that day (in the vid i posted earlier) where it was jumping off the rtollers. it then pulled 350hp
the biggest variations i notice between rollers though is torque.
Question for PDT
AMD run the cars in 5th (they say 1 gear lower than top is the best way to run them)
JKM say 4th as its the nearest 1:1 ratio
you say 3rd
any particular reason?
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What do you reckon a k03 is capable of? :confused:
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people recon 280 as like the maximum you’d ever get dependant on dynos but 260 - 270 realistically
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one off, mega boost, generous roller...300bhp.
in reality...270-280 is prolly the max IMO.
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What do you reckon a k03 is capable of? :confused:
ive had over 290hp on Amds rollers with superchips stage 2+. made 252hp on JKms rollers though, supersh!ts proper pants i tell thee.
Highest i have ever seen is 280Hp on JKms rolers however not many k03 cars have replicated it since. the highest ive seen since then is timmys shark performance stage 3(2+) which made 274Hp at the last RR day. vRS carls makes 265ish consistently with the revo stage 2+ on his althogh there is something happening to it on the rollers that no one can work out though,
have a look through the dyno thread
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Great info guys :happy2: I have had a look through the Dyno thread Janner_Sy and it's mainly k04 powered cars on there.
From what you guys are saying, Revo's claim of 260bhp from a stage 1 map seems totally unrealistic. :indifferent:
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Question for PDT
AMD run the cars in 5th (they say 1 gear lower than top is the best way to run them)
JKM say 4th as its the nearest 1:1 ratio
you say 3rd
any particular reason?
Dynodynamics reccomend running a car in third gear during shootout power testing, however most fwd big power stuff does require 4th gear to get traction. The power figures rarely alter if you test a car in third then fourth, as long as the car hits full load that is. It can vary from car to car, but 3/4 gears are normal for a dynodynamics.
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Also worth mentioning that I use a full decat and not a sports cat, this allows a much more aggressive ignition timing setting and leaner mixture as I dont need to worry about EGT's getting too high.
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Great info guys :happy2: I have had a look through the Dyno thread Janner_Sy and it's mainly k04 powered cars on there.
From what you guys are saying, Revo's claim of 260bhp from a stage 1 map seems totally unrealistic. :indifferent:
100% unrealistic. 240Hp is normal for stage 1, 260hp normal for stage 2
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Question for PDT
AMD run the cars in 5th (they say 1 gear lower than top is the best way to run them)
JKM say 4th as its the nearest 1:1 ratio
you say 3rd
any particular reason?
Dynodynamics reccomend running a car in third gear during shootout power testing, however most fwd big power stuff does require 4th gear to get traction. The power figures rarely alter if you test a car in third then fourth, as long as the car hits full load that is. It can vary from car to car, but 3/4 gears are normal for a dynodynamics.
so its nothing to do with gear ratio's at all?
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Great info guys :happy2: I have had a look through the Dyno thread Janner_Sy and it's mainly k04 powered cars on there.
From what you guys are saying, Revo's claim of 260bhp from a stage 1 map seems totally unrealistic. :indifferent:
100% unrealistic. 240Hp is normal for stage 1, 260hp normal for stage 2
You can achieve 250+ from a stage1 with the right map :wink:
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Great info guys :happy2: I have had a look through the Dyno thread Janner_Sy and it's mainly k04 powered cars on there.
From what you guys are saying, Revo's claim of 260bhp from a stage 1 map seems totally unrealistic. :indifferent:
100% unrealistic. 240Hp is normal for stage 1, 260hp normal for stage 2
You can achieve 250+ from a stage1 with the right map :wink:
and the right rollers :wink: :grin:
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So because JKM read lower figures then they must be right :indifferent:
When comparing againt other cars lets say mk2 FRS with around 400hp how can a stage 2+ car with a whopping 70hp less still keep up and the weight aint that much difference :confused:
^^^ the above is assuming JKM are perfect in every way and the max is 330hp from a K04.
The numbers or lack of just dont add up unless of course, other tuners for differnt maker of car are wrong aswell and perhaps should go to jkm for there power claims before saying the new kit for there mk2 FRS is 400hp or 300hp for a VXR etc etc etc.
Believe me when i say the difference between a 300hp VXR and a jkm confirmed 330hp stage 2+ K04 is a fair bit more than just 30hp!
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^^^But is the VXR JKM-confirmed at 300bhp?
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maybe the 300Hp VXR is abit ambitious??
edit..stealth has beaten me to it :grin:
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So because JKM read lower figures then they must be right :indifferent:
When comparing againt other cars lets say mk2 FRS with around 400hp how can a stage 2+ car with a whopping 70hp less still keep up and the weight aint that much difference :confused:
^^^ the above is assuming JKM are perfect in every way and the max is 330hp from a K04.
The numbers or lack of just dont add up unless of course, other tuners for differnt maker of car are wrong aswell and perhaps should go to jkm for there power claims before saying the new kit for there mk2 FRS is 400hp or 300hp for a VXR etc etc etc.
Believe me when i say the difference between a 300hp VXR and a jkm confirmed 330hp stage 2+ K04 is a fair bit more than just 30hp!
what about gear ratios, power bands, the shape of the curve, weight etc etc. Plus alot of these cars very likely have micky mouse figures aimed at making the Chav nation choose them rather than another tuners.
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Well it would seem that the stage 3 VXR is around 260-70hp max then, going by JKM's rollers!
So does this mean that every other tuner in britain of all car makers needs to go to JKM to get there output claims or there wrong because the southerners say so???
We're not just talking about chav brands either, BMW 135i from a stage 1 map are around 360hp (if not more) and a similar weight (havnt checked though) and similar in pace to a stage 2+ k04 if not a bit slower. Maybe there 330hp aswell then and a whopping 24hp gain from a map :confused:
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It's only saint Steve who bangs on about JKM rollers being the gospel. it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realise it's all a lottery, you can get disparity with the same car, same roller's the very next day.
Honestly (https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Ftomashandmilly%2FDaft_stuff%2FArnold.jpg&hash=e55d46f91c02b34ba93555f9d75f962b5ce0d448)
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For instance a stage 2+ K03 is pretty much neigh on identical in performance to a stage 1 k04. which would make sense as they are similar power, that is unless you believe your stage 1 is making 315hp+ as many do, if so then these little 2+ k03's must be about that as well.
Ok i submit. your car is 390Hp. :grin:
anyway, i refer back to my previous post :grin:
I know the pic shows an IC, but its not mentioned in the description!
So 370 with S2+ ? Is that do-able? It sound A LOT!!
its dependant on dyno. if you go to awesome @ the moment then you will see 360-370hp. if you go to AMD you'll get 390hp if you go to JKm you'll get 330Hp. Id average the lot and that s prob about rigfht, which is about 360hp
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mediabistro.com%2Fagencyspy%2Ffiles%2Foriginal%2FCatch_Fish.jpg&hash=85f0c112297687c6db075ebc2dde4f5a81ed4d5d)
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Wow... so what tuners should say really is this!
Stage 1... will make your car faster
Stage 2... will make your car VERY VERY fast!
No-one can argue with that
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Wow... so what tuners should say really is this!
Stage 1... will make your car faster
Stage 2... will make your car VERY VERY fast!
No-one can argue with that
if they are going to quote figures i think there should be a Hp range, or an average reading and not the freakishly high reading that you sometime get. they should also be on independant dynos and the the of dyno used for the figures. As we all know, they vary so much
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So because JKM read lower figures then they must be right :indifferent:
When comparing againt other cars lets say mk2 FRS with around 400hp how can a stage 2+ car with a whopping 70hp less still keep up and the weight aint that much difference :confused:
^^^ the above is assuming JKM are perfect in every way and the max is 330hp from a K04.
When something seems to be too good to be true it usually is. That's why i would be more toward JKM's rollers to be honest. Secondly tuned Ko4's can't keep up with 400bhp cars, they can to a certain point. Sunglasses ron posted a vid of a very heavy 400bhp M5 against a Ko4 car and the M5 started to walk away. The 2.0T is a very torquey engine so will give a good start off.
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It's only saint Steve who bangs on about JKM rollers being the gospel. it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realise it's all a lottery, you can get disparity with the same car, same roller's the very next day.
Honestly (https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Ftomashandmilly%2FDaft_stuff%2FArnold.jpg&hash=e55d46f91c02b34ba93555f9d75f962b5ce0d448)
I laughed :signLOL:
For instance a stage 2+ K03 is pretty much neigh on identical in performance to a stage 1 k04. which would make sense as they are similar power, that is unless you believe your stage 1 is making 315hp+ as many do, if so then these little 2+ k03's must be about that as well.
Ok i submit. your car is 390Hp. :grin:
anyway, i refer back to my previous post :grin:
I know the pic shows an IC, but its not mentioned in the description!
So 370 with S2+ ? Is that do-able? It sound A LOT!!
its dependant on dyno. if you go to awesome @ the moment then you will see 360-370hp. if you go to AMD you'll get 390hp if you go to JKm you'll get 330Hp. Id average the lot and that s prob about rigfht, which is about 360hp
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mediabistro.com%2Fagencyspy%2Ffiles%2Foriginal%2FCatch_Fish.jpg&hash=85f0c112297687c6db075ebc2dde4f5a81ed4d5d)
Spot on . Both these cars are the same on the road. Tells alot :happy2:
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Great info guys :happy2: I have had a look through the Dyno thread Janner_Sy and it's mainly k04 powered cars on there.
From what you guys are saying, Revo's claim of 260bhp from a stage 1 map seems totally unrealistic. :indifferent:
100% unrealistic. 240Hp is normal for stage 1, 260hp normal for stage 2
You can achieve 250+ from a stage1 with the right map :wink:
This I don't understand. Surely a Revo Stage 1 is the same map wherever you decide to get it done :confused:
I don't really know how dyno figures are generated but I reckon an average of 3 runs would probably give a more realistic figure. Maybe I'm completely wrong :laugh:
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So because JKM read lower figures then they must be right :indifferent:
When comparing againt other cars lets say mk2 FRS with around 400hp how can a stage 2+ car with a whopping 70hp less still keep up and the weight aint that much difference :confused:
^^^ the above is assuming JKM are perfect in every way and the max is 330hp from a K04.
When something seems to be too good to be true it usually is. That's why i would be more toward JKM's rollers to be honest. Secondly tuned Ko4's can't keep up with 400bhp cars, they can to a certain point. Sunglasses ron posted a vid of a very heavy 400bhp M5 against a Ko4 car and the M5 started to walk away. The 2.0T is a very torquey engine so will give a good start off.
That M5 is around 440bhp with those mods and it only started to claw back the gap that the Ed30 had pulled at got level at around 140mph+. At that speed weight has little affect and it's purely down to power and displacement. Something the M5 has to it's advantage, with an extra 3000cc, 4 cyl and around 80-100bhp..
So to me this only confirms that that Ed30 had a lot more than just 330bhp..
Same car against a Lotus Carlton.. :surprised:
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For instance a stage 2+ K03 is pretty much neigh on identical in performance to a stage 1 k04. which would make sense as they are similar power, that is unless you believe your stage 1 is making 315hp+ as many do, if so then these little 2+ k03's must be about that as well.
Ok i submit. your car is 390Hp. :grin:
anyway, i refer back to my previous post :grin:
I know the pic shows an IC, but its not mentioned in the description!
So 370 with S2+ ? Is that do-able? It sound A LOT!!
its dependant on dyno. if you go to awesome @ the moment then you will see 360-370hp. if you go to AMD you'll get 390hp if you go to JKm you'll get 330Hp. Id average the lot and that s prob about rigfht, which is about 360hp
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mediabistro.com%2Fagencyspy%2Ffiles%2Foriginal%2FCatch_Fish.jpg&hash=85f0c112297687c6db075ebc2dde4f5a81ed4d5d)
Spot on . Both these cars are the same on the road. Tells alot :happy2:
dont think so when robin made 245 at stage 2 and wigit and i made 300 on stage 1. :happy2:
i have contacted charlie to find out if we can use his rollers again as everyone was happy that the results were accurate. id be interested to find out if all the mods on my car since going originally have made more than 30hp, i hope so! but kind of doubt it after neil only made that with decat and all the trimmings. :xmaspresent:
have put a thread in the meets section to get numbers
http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,23028.0.html :happy2:
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dont think so when robin made 245 at stage 2 and wigit and i made 300 on stage 1. :happy2:
i have contacted charlie to find out if we can use his rollers again as everyone was happy that the results were accurate. id be interested to find out if all the mods on my car since going originally have made more than 30hp, i hope so! but kind of doubt it after neil only made that with decat and all the trimmings. :xmaspresent:
have put a thread in the meets section to get numbers
http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,23028.0.html :happy2:
Robins was the lowest powered stage 2 cars ive ever seen, but thats a result of him running very conservative settings. He actually running 260hp now.
However that comparison doesnt work anyway as i want on about a stage 2+ k03 car, i was on about a stage 2+ car which are in the region of 270-280hp.
This is a stage 2+ k03(shark performance) on JKMs
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jkm.org.uk%2Fperformance%2FMisc%2FGallery%2Frollingroaddays%2FBRISKODA%252015%252011%252010%2FDyno%2520Graphs%2FVRO.gif&hash=4302f3d9abc2b8253724169402e0f3344dd7b447)
This is a stage 1 K04 on JKMs rollers (revo stage 1)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jkm.org.uk%2Fperformance%2FMisc%2FGallery%2Frollingroaddays%2FMK5%2520GTI%252016%252010%252010%2FDyno%2520Graphs%2FSXF.gif&hash=e6081cc7f3e55873d07a643d0c6ba2ccbff50d0d)
very similar aren't they. Soooo if the k04 can make >315hp @ stage 1 then so can the stage 2+ k03, which it doesn't because its not possible. Also ignoring figures i assure you from personal experiendce that the k03 stage 2+ has no issues staying with a stage 1 k04 on the road. which backs all this up
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Come on Sy, you can clearly see that the KO4 has 0.2 more bhp which will be huge on the road.. :signLOL:
I'm guessing that's the best Stage 2+ Ko3 against one of the worst Stage 1 KO4's too? :wink: I don't care what anyone says (including JKM) a Stage 1 KO4 (Revo) should be making at least 285-290bhp if set up right and on the right fuel..
But I wouldn't imagine there to be much difference on the road between the 2 TBH. Maybe the KO4 to be slightly quicker at the top end due to it making it's power at higher revs (which is where it's needed at high speeds)..
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A particular K03 Stg2+ might be able to keep up with a particular K04 Stg1 on the road. But in my experience the average Stg2+ K03 would be no match for the average Stg1 K04. The difference in top end power is pretty significant.
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A particular K03 Stg2+ might be able to keep up with a particular K04 Stg1 on the road. But in my experience the average Stg2+ K03 would be no match for the average Stg1 K04. The difference in top end power is pretty significant.
the difference in top end power!!! The top end power is pretty much identical except the k03 makes it slightly earlier. @ stage 1 k04 there is very very little difference in them at all. stage 2 k04 and its bye bye, but not stage 1
Come on Sy, you can clearly see that the KO4 has 0.2 more bhp which will be huge on the road.. :signLOL:
I'm guessing that's the best Stage 2+ Ko3 against one of the worst Stage 1 KO4's too? :wink: I don't care what anyone says (including JKM) a Stage 1 KO4 (Revo) should be making at least 285-290bhp if set up right and on the right fuel..
But I wouldn't imagine there to be much difference on the road between the 2 TBH. Maybe the KO4 to be slightly quicker at the top end due to it making it's power at higher revs (which is where it's needed at high speeds)..
I agree ron. Maybe slightly quicker at the very top end, but by then were talking well above 100mph.
As you say that the k04 stage 1 should be making 280-290Hp. having a trawl through their galleries they are pretty much all around the 270-280Hp region which is only a minimal increase over a stage 2+. so on the road there would be very little difference, and when you counter in the k03 stage 2+ would have the midrange torque advantage due to the fuel pump. Id say on a 1/4 the stage 1 k04 could just get the legs being able to make power that bit higher up the Rev band. On a track id say the k03 2+ would have it. Due to the midrange advantage.
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Sunglasses Ron, you mustn't be up to speed on yer laws of physics :wink:. We all know the faster a car goes the weight multiplies. At 140 mph it will be hugely heavy. The M5 starts out nearly half a ton heavier than the Golf. At 140mph the gap will be even huger. It will need a lot more power than the Golf to maintain 140 mph.
Now even if the M5 has 440bhp which is not optimistic increase from a N/A engine? I reckon it would still need at least 100bhp more to reel in the Golf at those speeds so i reckon 330-340 would be about right for the Golf.
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I'll just throw this little spanner in the works then. Stage 2 only K03 :wink:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jkm.org.uk%2Fperformance%2FMisc%2FGallery%2Frollingroaddays%2FBRISKODA%252002%252002%252008%2FGraphs-No-Details%2FOCT23VRS.gif&hash=08b027d318f73333e0bf05b9f66bca8984a8ce60)
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Sunglasses Ron, you mustn't be up to speed on yer laws of physics :wink:. We all know the faster a car goes the weight multiplies.
Not sure on that Physics Law myself unless you are approaching the speed of light. :surprised:
Wind resistance increases with the square of the velocity but I didn't think that mass changes. :confused:
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hedge, so how come steves car makes less than that on stage 2 K04?? :confused:
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hedge, so how come steves car makes less than that on stage 2 K04?? :confused:
Dunno mate. He is running Superchips the same as my Ed30 did and they are more conservative than Revo.
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Sunglasses Ron, you mustn't be up to speed on yer laws of physics :wink:. We all know the faster a car goes the weight multiplies.
Not sure on that Physics Law myself unless you are approaching the speed of light. :surprised:
Wind resistance increases with the square of the velocity but I didn't think that mass changes. :confused:
Yep the faster you move the more energy you put into something more mass accumulates
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Sunglasses Ron, you mustn't be up to speed on yer laws of physics :wink:. We all know the faster a car goes the weight multiplies.
Not sure on that Physics Law myself unless you are approaching the speed of light. :surprised:
Wind resistance increases with the square of the velocity but I didn't think that mass changes. :confused:
Yep the faster you move the more energy you put into something more mass accumulates
I don't think it's a significant amount Micky unless, like I said, you are approaching the speed of light.
I have a headache now from reading this as it's been a while. :innocent: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass-energy_equivalence
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100lb man traveling at 0.6 the speed of light weight 125lb.... at 'car speeds' its going to be minute!
http://www.1728.com/reltivty.htm
So a car with mass of 2900lb... will weigh 2901lb @100mph!
The above might well be complete codswallop.... my head aches already!
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I'll just throw this little spanner in the works then. Stage 2 only K03 :wink:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jkm.org.uk%2Fperformance%2FMisc%2FGallery%2Frollingroaddays%2FBRISKODA%252002%252002%252008%2FGraphs-No-Details%2FOCT23VRS.gif&hash=08b027d318f73333e0bf05b9f66bca8984a8ce60)
Thats a very Healthy Stage 2+ motor :wink:
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I'll just throw this little spanner in the works then. Stage 2 only K03 :wink:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jkm.org.uk%2Fperformance%2FMisc%2FGallery%2Frollingroaddays%2FBRISKODA%252002%252002%252008%2FGraphs-No-Details%2FOCT23VRS.gif&hash=08b027d318f73333e0bf05b9f66bca8984a8ce60)
Thats a very Healthy Stage 2+ motor :wink:
Except its only stage 2. :laugh:
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Runnng 297 on Stage 0!!
So there!!!! :signLOL:
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hedge, so how come steves car makes less than that on stage 2 K04?? :confused:
Mine was stage 1 and its best was 284.6bhp from memory.
Ive yet to find out what my does with stage 2, because of my map failure last time out, mine ran stock bhp at 233bhp :ashamed:
Another rolling road is being held 5th of feb at jkm which i will be attending :happy2:
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100lb man traveling at 0.6 the speed of light weight 125lb.... at 'car speeds' its going to be minute!
http://www.1728.com/reltivty.htm
So a car with mass of 2900lb... will weigh 2901lb @100mph!
The above might well be complete codswallop.... my head aches already!
i think what micky is meant to refer to is not the weight increasing. I think what he was saying is that with a vehicle as heavy as the M5, it requires a lot of power to overcome the inertia. the heavier an object the more inertia it will have acting against the rate of acceleration
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Except its only stage 2. :laugh:
Of course it is Hedge :signLOL:
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hedge, so how come steves car makes less than that on stage 2 K04?? :confused:
Mine was stage 1 and its best was 284.6bhp from memory.
Ive yet to find out what my does with stage 2, because of my map failure last time out, mine ran stock bhp at 233bhp :ashamed:
Another rolling road is being held 5th of feb at jkm which i will be attending :happy2:
thats right, sorry steve, remember now it was just a cat back :happy2:
mine ran 212, 215 and 223 stock. :ashamed:
do you have an intake now? :evilgrin:
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Except its only stage 2. :laugh:
Of course it is Hedge :signLOL:
it is, the very early REVO codes were particularly aggressive from what i gather. Think they changed the codes. vRScarl knows more about it, as it relates to his car as well
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Stage 2+ Revo with lots of bolt ons :wink:
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hedge, so how come steves car makes less than that on stage 2 K04?? :confused:
Mine was stage 1 and its best was 284.6bhp from memory.
Ive yet to find out what my does with stage 2, because of my map failure last time out, mine ran stock bhp at 233bhp :ashamed:
Another rolling road is being held 5th of feb at jkm which i will be attending :happy2:
thats right, sorry steve, remember now it was just a cat back :happy2:
mine ran 212, 215 and 223 stock. :ashamed:
do you have an intake now? :evilgrin:
No i havent, see only problem happens if i get an intake, it leads to fueling issues, so bigger fuel pump required...... so then comes the brakes because i then cant stop myself..........then by this time the weather gets warmer, ill need a larger Intercooler to cool things down.......
Does this sound familar :signLOL:
Stage 2 is a reletively cheap way of faster motoring :laugh:
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lol fair enough! :laugh:
kinda wish i stayed at stage 1 now or never found this place and took up golf, would have been cheaper! :chicken:
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Stage 2+ Revo with lots of bolt ons :wink:
Nope you are wronger than a wrong thing. It was before Stage 2+ existed as this was eventually the development car :P
Black Octy with Silver stripes.
Octavia MK2 - 2.0 TFSI
(REVO Stage 2 + Forge Front Mount + Milltek Turbo back + Turbo discharge Pipe + AutoTech Fuel Pump + EVOMS)
http://www.jkm.org.uk/performance/GalleryBRISK020208.htm
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Stage 2+ Revo with lots of bolt ons :wink:
Nope you are wronger than a wrong thing. It was before Stage 2+ existed as this was eventually the development car :P
Black Octy with Silver stripes.
Octavia MK2 - 2.0 TFSI
(REVO Stage 2 + Forge Front Mount + Milltek Turbo back + Turbo discharge Pipe + AutoTech Fuel Pump + EVOMS)
http://www.jkm.org.uk/performance/GalleryBRISK020208.htm
Mr makers old steed i presume :smiley:
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Stage 2+ Revo with lots of bolt ons :wink:
Nope you are wronger than a wrong thing. It was before Stage 2+ existed as this was eventually the development car :P
Black Octy with Silver stripes.
Octavia MK2 - 2.0 TFSI
(REVO Stage 2 + Forge Front Mount + Milltek Turbo back + Turbo discharge Pipe + AutoTech Fuel Pump + EVOMS)
http://www.jkm.org.uk/performance/GalleryBRISK020208.htm
Lol I thought I had you there Hedge :jumping:
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lol fair enough! :laugh:
kinda wish i stayed at stage 1 now or never found this place and took up golf, would have been cheaper! :chicken:
Yes (we) were both happy Mr standards till this place effected altered our interests
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That must have been back when JKM's rollers were accurate :laugh:
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Lol I thought I had you there Hedge :jumping:
Sorry :P
Mr makers old steed i presume :smiley:
Yup. :happy2:
That must have been back when JKM's rollers were accurate :laugh:
Could have been yesterday then...... :popcornsoda:
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I get 261.37 Horses (265PS) from my standard stage 0 Rocco.................(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic.skynetblogs.be%2Fmedia%2F28248%2F648_45dd21100b114133d3d8e4008c6035b5.gif&hash=4626b6e08f8554568ad5948d3c51e19f7eb6cf97)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm2.static.flickr.com%2F1208%2F751398966_5e1fac80ff.jpg&hash=c5e5a2159768bcdcdf2b3a7bad1ad15f7cfe6b25)
:evilgrin: :evilgrin:
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Stage 2+ Revo with lots of bolt ons :wink:
Nope you are wronger than a wrong thing. It was before Stage 2+ existed as this was eventually the development car :P
Black Octy with Silver stripes.
Octavia MK2 - 2.0 TFSI
(REVO Stage 2 + Forge Front Mount + Milltek Turbo back + Turbo discharge Pipe + AutoTech Fuel Pump + EVOMS)
http://www.jkm.org.uk/performance/GalleryBRISK020208.htm
Mr makers old steed i presume :smiley:
That must be the car that Revo get there 260 bhp for Stg1 then :grin:
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Surely the one way to find out is if jkm do 4th gear runs and others do 3rd and 5th, to see if thats the difference in power readings why dosnt someone when on the rollers compare a 3rd 4th and 5th gear run at jkm or where ever and see whats the difference.... and if you get a big difference which gear is right?
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Theres a lot more to dyno testing a car than just trying different gears, theres also ramp rates ( the rate of acceleration that the dyno allows) and the amount of load applied.
If you do get a different power reading in 3rd gear to 4th gear then theres something wrong with the way the dyno run is conducted, maybe the car didnt hit full load in one gear but did in the other, maybe a wheel bearing is worn or a brake is binding, this would give a different (lower) reading in a higher gear as the rotational speed of the drivetrain is higher and the restriction would give greater power losses for the given RPM.
There are far too many variables when you try and compare one dyno to another, this is always an issue when customers rely on the flywheel power figure, the big difference that I see isnt in the true power that a chassis dyno (drive on dyno) measures i.e power @ the wheels, its when you compare dynos based on the flywheel power, which after all is nothing more than a 'good guess' that the dyno works out. This isnt the case in the USA where power @wheels is more commonly used.
We have tested a car recently that made 387bhp at flywheel on an old coastdown type dyno (these measure transmission power losses by coasting down from peak rpm to 0rpm at the end of the power run and measuring the resistance during this coastdown, working this out as a percentage of power @wheels and adding it back on to give a flywheel figure) this car made just 302bhp at the wheels, on our dyno it made 349bhp at the flywheel but strangely 298@ the wheels. So a difference of just 4hp at the wheels but a massive 38hp at the flywheel!
So which dyno was right? Well both gave wheel power figures within less than 1.5% of eachother, but one dyno had massively compensated for the flywheel figure, maybe ours had undercompensated? Who knows?
My advice is to always ask the dyno operator for the bhp at both flywheel and wheels and use a modern dyno that doesnt use coastdown to generate its power figueres, then you cant go far wrong. If your result has been 'fudged' then you can tell by comparing the power@wheels to the power@flywheel.
Theres a lot more to it than that but ill leave it there :santa: