MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Modifications & Technical Area => Performance Modifications => Topic started by: heavyd on January 22, 2011, 05:14:49 pm
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With the faulkt code that keeps appearing since I got the Revo map. I decided to strip my oem pump down to check it, and put the standard internals back in just to rule that part out of the equation.
I switched the Revo back to stock and I did some data logging to check if it made any difference.
Checking the logs I noticed it was still requesting 129.9 bar of pressure from the fuel pump?
So the assumption that the stock map isnt stock was quite a suprise. So if there was a slight niggle in the map file that I got, even switching back to stock wouldnt even rule that factor out, as essentially it must just be revo on low settings? is this true? Timing pull and fuel pressure is nasty for a stock map :confused:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fb150%2Fheavyd123%2Fstockmap.jpg&hash=6833ab0971a55c06a0b562fdf5b8d1a8e20327d7)
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Once you have Revo, you loose your factory oem map. Thats fact.
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The stock setting in REVO software is supposed to be a REVO incarnation of a stock map. Not ideal if it makes more power than it should.
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Revo's 'stock' map setting is really just like APR's 'valet' map and is just an option to use in emergency or if a less experienced driver is borrowing the car.
No-one except experienced drivers I already know and trust get permission to drive my car and so I only use Revo's stock map for nursing the car if there's a problem such as when I had a boost leak.
What exactly is the problem with Revo's 'stock' map? [in plain English, not gooblygook data charts, please]
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Are you using a 2nd hand sps unit?
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The stock setting in REVO software is supposed to be a REVO incarnation of a stock map. Not ideal if it makes more power than it should.
Well thats me not going over 2000rpm until I put the pump back in :sad1: :sad1:
I would have thought they might have reduced the fuel pressure for a 'stock' map :stupid:
Guess I'll just have to plod on changing various parts until I find the answer then.
I hope its not the map since I cant go back to a 'stock' file.
No its a brand new select unit from JKM, £126 on special offer!
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Revo's stock map exists so people can turn the map off when it goes in for a service.
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And you are right as far as stock isnt really a fully standard map, to go fully stock you need to go back to a Revo dealer and have your original factory file reflashed.
Your map is the latest software version available, it has the full correction for the lambda delete.
A quick update on the Audi we discussed, found the joint from the standard intake to the turbo was leaking, so checked my own intake as I was getting the same fault code and mine was leaking as well due to a split rubber.
So go check your intake where it joins the turbo :wink:
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Revo's 'stock' map setting is really just like APR's 'valet' map and is just an option to use in emergency or if a less experienced driver is borrowing the car.
No-one except experienced drivers I already know and trust get permission to drive my car and so I only use Revo's stock map for nursing the car if there's a problem such as when I had a boost leak.
What exactly is the problem with Revo's 'stock' map? [in plain English, not gooblygook data charts, please]
I havent got the high pressure fuel pump in, but is still requesting 130bar of fuel pressure, the standard pump can only make 110ish.
I spent 4 hours yesterday Dave checking the intake, various hoses, pipes, doing fuel pump etc etc. wish is was as simple as that hose :stupid:
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Stock should request 110bar :stupid: will look into this for you.
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Revo's stock map exists so people can turn the map off when it goes in for a service.
....Depends where you go for a service but yes, probably useful for most people.
Isn't its most useful aspect switching to stock before a VW software update at a VW dealer?
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I am extremely surprised that something is wrong with Revo software :confused: :evilgrin:
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What exactly is the problem with Revo's 'stock' map? [in plain English, not gooblygook data charts, please]
I havent got the high pressure fuel pump in, but is still requesting 130bar of fuel pressure, the standard pump can only make 110ish.
....Thanks for explaining so that my less technical mind can understand :drinking:
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I am extremely surprised that something is wrong with Revo software :confused: :evilgrin:
....Are you being sarcastic or just playful? :smiley:
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Just got off the phone with Revo, and that log cant be from a car in stock mode as its requesting 2000+mb of boost.
What setting are you using on the switch when trying to revert to stock mode?
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I always thought that a REVO 'stock' file was just reduced timing and boost down to 'stock' levels from what ever stage you were running..
If so, that would explain why its still requesting high rail pressuer..
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Just got off the phone with Revo, and that log cant be from a car in stock mode as its requesting 2000+mb of boost.
What setting are you using on the switch when trying to revert to stock mode?
Number 1.
I also plugged laptop in, clicked on ecu aquire, and it came back as stock, i also clicked on set as stock, and aquired again, which came back as stock. so I came to the conclusion that it was set to stock mode :laugh:
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Revo's stock map exists so people can turn the map off when it goes in for a service.
....Depends where you go for a service but yes, probably useful for most people.
Isn't its most useful aspect switching to stock before a VW software update at a VW dealer?
No it's completely irrelevant and stock is not stock in Revo world it's their version of stock.
In most cases a VW software update will overwrite your Revo software.
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Just got off the phone with Revo, and that log cant be from a car in stock mode as its requesting 2000+mb of boost.
What setting are you using on the switch when trying to revert to stock mode?
Number 1.
I also plugged laptop in, clicked on ecu aquire, and it came back as stock, i also clicked on set as stock, and aquired again, which came back as stock. so I came to the conclusion that it was set to stock mode :laugh:
That should be stock, but it isnt as stock mode requests 1800mb not 2100mb. If you want a full stock factory map I can flash it for you.
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Stock mode "should" be Boost 1 Timing 0 Fuel 0
However this wouldn't be the first time I've known Revo Stock to not do what it is supposed to. Getting them to admit it is wrong will also be nigh on impossible :sad1:
I am extremely surprised that something is wrong with Revo software :confused: :evilgrin:
....Are you being sarcastic or just playful? :smiley:
Who me???? :wink:
To answer your question - Both! :laugh:
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Stock mode "should" be Boost 1 Timing 0 Fuel 0
However this wouldn't be the first time I've known Revo Stock to not do what it is supposed to. Getting them to admit it is wrong will also be nigh on impossible :sad1:
I am extremely surprised that something is wrong with Revo software :confused: :evilgrin:
....Are you being sarcastic or just playful? :smiley:
Who me???? :wink:
To answer your question - Both! :laugh:
It'll be a boost leak, 100% not software...
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boost levels are just about spot on thoughrequested vs actual :stupid:
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i was also being sarcastic :P :P. thats revos default answer to peoples problems normally :grin:
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Just got off the phone with Revo, and that log cant be from a car in stock mode as its requesting 2000+mb of boost.
What setting are you using on the switch when trying to revert to stock mode?
Number 1.
I also plugged laptop in, clicked on ecu aquire, and it came back as stock, i also clicked on set as stock, and aquired again, which came back as stock. so I came to the conclusion that it was set to stock mode :laugh:
That should be stock, but it isnt as stock mode requests 1800mb not 2100mb. If you want a full stock factory map I can flash it for you.
That would be great if you dont mind, just rules something out of the equasion, as it didnt appear until 15mins after revo was flashed onto the car :happy2:
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I suppose now is a bad time to ask how Revo compares with Bluefin? :laugh:
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HeavyD is yours an ED30??
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When my Ed30 was on JKm rollers recently in Revo 'Stock' mode (settings 0,0,0) it made 255bhp 260ftlb. So it ain't factory stock :wink: :wink: :wink:
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I suppose now is a bad time to ask how Revo compares with Bluefin? :laugh:
I would have said so :fighting: :fighting: :fighting: Rolling road wise better if youre figure chasing, was it worth the money and hassle, no :party:
Yes, its an edition 30. Vrstu
So you honestly dont mind flashing it to stock and back again after a few days Dave? When do you think I'd be able to get it done :smiley:
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Dave, I think you'll need to speak to REVO on this as it could be the fabled S3/ED30 overlaid map which as Thor says is not as stock as it should be and hence requesting 130bar on the rail.
REVO comes with a 30 Day Money Back warranty :evilgrin:
Not convinced yet? Why not take advantage of the 30 day money back guarantee? Revo Technik promises that you will be very happy with the software or you can have the software removed and your money back. There is no better way to try it out on your own car!
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Dave, I think you'll need to speak to REVO on this as it could be the fabled S3/ED30 overlaid map which as Thor says is not as stock as it should be and hence requesting 130bar on the rail.
REVO comes with a 30 Day Money Back warranty :evilgrin:
Not convinced yet? Why not take advantage of the 30 day money back guarantee? Revo Technik promises that you will be very happy with the software or you can have the software removed and your money back. There is no better way to try it out on your own car!
:grin: :grin:
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Dave, I think you'll need to speak to REVO on this as it could be the fabled S3/ED30 overlaid map which as Thor says is not as stock as it should be and hence requesting 130bar on the rail.
REVO comes with a 30 Day Money Back warranty :evilgrin:
Not convinced yet? Why not take advantage of the 30 day money back guarantee? Revo Technik promises that you will be very happy with the software or you can have the software removed and your money back. There is no better way to try it out on your own car!
:grin: :grin:
If I hadnt sold my bluefin on I would have got my money back. Im not paying out for another map yet again, I only make nissans for a living :sad1:
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One thing to remember is that there are not that many Ed30 software versions, maybe 3-4. We have flashed 10+ ED30 cars with this exact same code and set them up in the exact same way, only 2 have had this fault code appear. One is my own car which we solved today, was a split in a hose near the turbo on the intake pipe, caused by the screw that holds the intake piping in place working its way loose. We investigated a 100% standard Audi this week that had the same fault code, it also turned out to be an intake pipe that was loose near the turbo.
If this fault code was a problem with the Revo code itself then it would be apparent on a huge amount more cars and more would be known about its cause and how to resolve it.
Why would it appear shortly having been flashed with Revo? An obvious question to ask, but an existing problem is far more lilely to show up when running a tuned software, especially one that requests a lot more boost.
Revo Know about this case and are looking into it with us, but the fact that we have found this fault, diagnosed it and found it to be casued by a similar problem gives us something to work with.
As for Revo stock, not being stock, I agree 100%. Most ED30's we test when put in stock mode by the sps switch make 245+hp but any Revo dealer will be able to flash a 100% factory map back to the ecu. It takes 10 mins and usually FOC.
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I know which way I will be going when I get my next car and it will probably be the Fishy side of life.
Revo are good when it works. But develop a problem and its always your car never the software. Their customer care is great when your spending money. But when you want help with a problem it is diabolical and virtually non-existent.
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I know which way I will be going when I get my next car and it will probably be the Fishy side of life.
Revo are good when it works. But develop a problem and its always your car never the software. Their customer care is great when your spending money. But when you want help with a problem it is diabolical and virtually non-existent.
how dare you :grin:
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One thing to remember is that there are not that many Ed30 software versions, maybe 3-4. We have flashed 10+ ED30 cars with this exact same code and set them up in the exact same way, only 2 have had this fault code appear. One is my own car which we solved today, was a split in a hose near the turbo on the intake pipe, caused by the screw that holds the intake piping in place working its way loose. We investigated a 100% standard Audi this week that had the same fault code, it also turned out to be an intake pipe that was loose near the turbo.
If this fault code was a problem with the Revo code itself then it would be apparent on a huge amount more cars and more would be known about its cause and how to resolve it.
Why would it appear shortly having been flashed with Revo? An obvious question to ask, but an existing problem is far more lilely to show up when running a tuned software, especially one that requests a lot more boost.
Revo Know about this case and are looking into it with us, but the fact that we have found this fault, diagnosed it and found it to be casued by a similar problem gives us something to work with.
As for Revo stock, not being stock, I agree 100%. Most ED30's we test when put in stock mode by the sps switch make 245+hp but any Revo dealer will be able to flash a 100% factory map back to the ecu. It takes 10 mins and usually FOC.
Just out of curiosity how do they do that? Revo provide their version of the stock map so unless you keep an OEM map yourself I'm confused as to how they would do what you say?
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I know which way I will be going when I get my next car and it will probably be the Fishy side of life.
Revo are good when it works. But develop a problem and its always your car never the software. Their customer care is great when your spending money. But when you want help with a problem it is diabolical and virtually non-existent.
how dare you :grin:
:signLOL: :signLOL:
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When do you think I'll be able to get in Dave?
I did phone Revo about it and emailed them the other day. No email reply, when I phoned they said I just have to go back to the dealer that installed it and sort it out with them
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When do you think I'll be able to get in Dave? Or do you want me to phone off a random number, whenever I use my phone you don't answer :rolleye:
I did phone Revo about it and emailed them the other day. No email reply, when I phoned they said I just have to go back to the dealer that installed it and sort it out with them
Another example of Revo's top Customer Care :surprised:
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Revo sending people back to their local dealer is a perfect solution, you cant expect them to diagnose faults by email or over the phone, hence their network of well trained and knowledgable dealers.
Also, factory stock is full factory stock, dont confuse this with REVO sps stock.
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I wouldn't expect Revo to diagnose a fault over the phone or email. But they don't listen to their so called network of trained and knowledgeable dealers. I know through bitter experience.
Factory stock isnt always full factory stock either. Well at least not the same Model Year car :wink:
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Revo sending people back to their local dealer is a perfect solution, you cant expect them to diagnose faults by email or over the phone, hence their network of well trained and knowledgable dealers.
Which is all well and good but who is footing the bill?
If you have your car mapped and there is a problem, having already spent £499 + vat, who is then footing the bill for diagnostic work, the Revo dealer or the customer?
So having taken their (lions) share Revo will quite happily say no it can't be the software.
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I wouldn't expect Revo to diagnose a fault over the phone or email. But they don't listen to their so called network of trained and knowledgeable dealers. I know through bitter experience.
Factory stock isnt always full factory stock either. Well at least not the same Model Year car :wink:
No, but it will be the exact same software version that was flashed to the ECU on the production line as well as any updates that have been added. The Bosch hardware and software number will be the same as well as checksum values, VAG number, chassis number, software version etc.... I know this as I have checked many cars that we have flashed with full stock software from the Revo database and Winols (map editing software) always shows the file is a 100% match to known Bosch factory files.
As for who foots the bill, we offer all customers wether they have Revo software or our own software free diagnostic testing for the full duration of their ownership of the car, wether its engine related or not.
Problem is that people will ALWAYS blame the software, but if the software was at fault then EVERY car out there with the same version of REVO would have the same problem, and after we spend time diagnosing a fault it is a component on the car that is at fault 99% of the time.
As for customer care from Revo, the moment I saw this thread, I rang a revo technician on his mobile out of hours (around 7pm on a saturday night) and they spent 15-20 mins talking through the scenario and possible solutions, cant ask more than that can you?
And as yet nobody knows if its a software fault, it could be anything such as faulty lambda, faulty pcv, boist leak, vac leak, dodgy cat, contaminants in combustion i.e burning oil, breather problem.........
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revo stock file = oe stock, except one thing - "codierung" or something like that. It's like the version of you software and you can see it only in VAS (VW diagnostic tool). It doesn't matter for cars that have no guarantee.
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As for Revo stock, not being stock, I agree 100%. Most ED30's we test when put in stock mode by the sps switch make 245+hp but any Revo dealer will be able to flash a 100% factory map back to the ecu. It takes 10 mins and usually FOC.
as stated above by a REVO dealer that REVO stock is more powerful than OEM stock. its just the REVO software with the boost and timing reverted to stock levels
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As I understand it, the oem hoses in the turbo charge/discharge line aren't designed by VW to be subjected long term to boost pressure fluctuations when increased by remapping. That's partly why I took the precaution of replacing all mine with Samco silicone hoses. You have only to compare the hoses.
Unfortunately we live in a blame culture and, as PDT Dave says, the problem can be due to any number of things and their combination. Calm patience and an open analytical mind is the way forward. The mission must be to solve the problem, not to find someone to blame.
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I know it must be hard Dom (fooking hard), but try and keep the faith if you can mate.. It's a hell of a coincidence that this has all come about since the Revo software has been loaded on, but as Dave says, it's highly likely that this is more to do with another part of the car failing. Just need to be diagnosed (which is the problem).
I have done nearly 200,000 miles on Revo software without one hiccup and although there seems to be a current wave of bad press and negativity regarding Revo, I still have nothing but faith in the product and will use them again and again..
Hope you get sorted as soon as possible mate so you can actually enjoy the product for what it is.. :driver:
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I wouldn't expect Revo to diagnose a fault over the phone or email. But they don't listen to their so called network of trained and knowledgeable dealers. I know through bitter experience.
Factory stock isnt always full factory stock either. Well at least not the same Model Year car :wink:
No, but it will be the exact same software version that was flashed to the ECU on the production line as well as any updates that have been added. The Bosch hardware and software number will be the same as well as checksum values, VAG number, chassis number, software version etc.... I know this as I have checked many cars that we have flashed with full stock software from the Revo database and Winols (map editing software) always shows the file is a 100% match to known Bosch factory files.
As for customer care from Revo, the moment I saw this thread, I rang a revo technician on his mobile out of hours (around 7pm on a saturday night) and they spent 15-20 mins talking through the scenario and possible solutions, cant ask more than that can you?
And as yet nobody knows if its a software fault, it could be anything such as faulty lambda, faulty pcv, boist leak, vac leak, dodgy cat, contaminants in combustion i.e burning oil, breather problem.........
Well i know of more than one car that have had the wrong "factory" file flashed back. Revo's stock database is not always a "100% stock" file from the factory. They take the file from 1 factory car and then keep that on file. They don't bother then to check ECU no's or revisions of the file with any updates like you say. If your car is the same car then thats the file you get regardless of model year. The checksum is not always altered either, again i know from experience.
Otherwise explain to me how an ED30 i know of made S3 power on a "100% Stock Factory" Map :confused:
Revo's customer care is not very good once you have a problem. Again i'm speaking from experience. The default answer is "boost leak". I had and have had loads of problems on K03 Stage 2+. I spent a considerable amount of money replacing parts on the car as Revo were adament something was wrong with the car. However i have since gone back to Stage 2 and now make more power/torque than stage 2+ :stupid: But the software is still apparently not at fault :confused:
As you say in this particular case we don't know if it is the software yet. But just because something doesn't show straight away doesn't mean the software is not to blame. It only takes a typo in the code.
Like i said earlier the product, when it works, is very good. However i want backup and customer care that listen's to what i have to say rather than instantly just cutting me off saying it's a hardware fault. Maybe you have a Revo technician's mobile and can call him whenever. But your one of their dealers and they have to be a bit more co-operative with dealers otherwise they can't sell their product.
Remember as well that their customer care is only assessed/tested when someone has a problem :smiley:
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Well then, looks like things have got stirred up a little here :popcornsoda:
I wasnt saying that its the map to blame, I merely stated that it was coincidental that it came on just after revo was flashed onto the car. As far as higher levels go, the car had been running Bluefin stage 2+ file until a couple of days before the revo flash.
All I was wanting to do was run the car with a stock map to rule out the map, before I start ploughing loads more money onto parts that I dont even need to buy. I'm going to buy an apr fuel pump anyway to rule that part out, £763, I've already bought a MAF, £108, some people say it might be the primary lambda sensor £110. so that will be £990 spent on a car that had no faults whilst running with bluefin. add that to the MOT in a couple of weeks and the £720 for the 40,000 service due in 3 weeks, this is starting to get expensive :stupid:
If the oem map is on and the fault code comes back on, then I know revo isnt to blame
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fb150%2Fheavyd123%2Fmeerkat.jpg&hash=b39faed10bee71897308497c999ac2dce7fb3175)
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I've just thought, If I pay for stage 2, then get a pump at a later date, would I still have to pay for a stage 2+ file at a later date even if I've paid for it once before?
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Depends how Dave is feeling. There may be a labour charge.
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Depends how Dave is feeling. There may be a labour charge.
I guess there will be, I think I'm his least favourite customer :signLOL:
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Well then, looks like things have got stirred up a little here :popcornsoda:
I wasnt saying that its the map to blame, I merely stated that it was coincidental that it came on just after revo was flashed onto the car. As far as higher levels go, the car had been running Bluefin stage 2+ file until a couple of days before the revo flash.
All I was wanting to do was run the car with a stock map to rule out the map, before I start ploughing loads more money onto parts that I dont even need to buy. I'm going to buy an apr fuel pump anyway to rule that part out, £763, I've already bought a MAF, £108, some people say it might be the primary lambda sensor £110. so that will be £990 spent on a car that had no faults whilst running with bluefin. add that to the MOT in a couple of weeks and the £720 for the 40,000 service due in 3 weeks, this is starting to get expensive :stupid:
If the oem map is on and the fault code comes back on, then I know revo isnt to blame
Your getting similar to me mate. :sad1:
If i were you i'd cut your losses now. Get your money back and go back to Bluefin Stage 2. Might not make the same power/torque. But at least the Customer care is good :happy2:
There is always Custard Clown to try :evilgrin: :signLOL:
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Even better still
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Golf-GTI-Remapping-1-8T-2-0T-TFSI-MK4-MK5-MK6-Remap-/310238352169?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item483ba59329
£199 for 310bhp, must be good :rolleye:
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:signLOL:
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Even better still
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Golf-GTI-Remapping-1-8T-2-0T-TFSI-MK4-MK5-MK6-Remap-/310238352169?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item483ba59329
£199 for 310bhp, must be good :rolleye:
Sounds like a bargain. Lets face it, it can't be any worse than what you have. :evilgrin: :laugh:
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Even better still
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Golf-GTI-Remapping-1-8T-2-0T-TFSI-MK4-MK5-MK6-Remap-/310238352169?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item483ba59329
£199 for 310bhp, must be good :rolleye:
Sounds like a bargain. Lets face it, it can't be any worse than what you have. :evilgrin: :laugh:
:congrats:
:grin: :grin: :grin:
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Problem is that people will ALWAYS blame the software, but if the software was at fault then EVERY car out there with the same version of REVO would have the same problem, and after we spend time diagnosing a fault it is a component on the car that is at fault 99% of the time.
As for customer care from Revo, the moment I saw this thread, I rang a revo technician on his mobile out of hours (around 7pm on a saturday night) and they spent 15-20 mins talking through the scenario and possible solutions, cant ask more than that can you?
And as yet nobody knows if its a software fault, it could be anything such as faulty lambda, faulty pcv, boist leak, vac leak, dodgy cat, contaminants in combustion i.e burning oil, breather problem.........
The thing with this is he was running stage 2+ bluefin with no issues at all. he swaps to REVO stage 2+ who release an additonal 50Hp/50lbft across the entire rev rangewith no hardware changes and within 15minutes gets a fault code
Pushing it to far maybe???
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fb150%2Fheavyd123%2F8d8d8de6-1.jpg&hash=e3add55fec93db69b8a95b0b84cc09f395209e28)
He then goes to switch it back to stock, the software tells him its stock, he logs the car but its blatantly not, as its requesting more boost. It does smell a little of software issues.
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this is alot of the reasons why im slightly reluctant to go REVO for my 1.4TSI. They always make mor power than the competition, but maybe theres a reason the competition dont push it so much. im going to wait until the first service before iconsider it again. i want to see if gear boxes start disintegrating with the torque increases
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Just so that people are aware there are 2 versions of stock mode.
1. Sps switch stock, just lowers the boost and timing settings to get close to stock power
2. Full stock mode, only available from a Revo dealer and flashes a full factory original file to the Ecu. This file will be an identical file to the one that the car left the factory with, and in most cases its fully up to date with the latest factory updates.
For some reason the OP's sps switch isnt switching to stock. Personally I dont like the SPS switch, its far to easy for cars owners to play with things and cause problems hence we dont stock or sell them, we tell customers to come back to us if they want it reverted to stock and flash a full factory stock file, but some customers love the product so its horses for courses.
If the problem dissapears when flashed to stock, does this mean the problem is in the software or is the problem being caused by the effect of the software? An underlying engine problem may not show up under standard performance parameters, but may well do under highly tuned conditions.
As a tuner you are always stuck between a rock and a hard place, do you tune for low power figures just to be safe but miles behind the competition when it comes to real power gains or tune for maximum reliable gains and be accused of pushing things too hard? Revo have this covered though, the settings are fully adjustable and customisable to the customers demands and expectations, unlike a 1 size fits all handheld device which often leaves customers dissapointed.
Im starting to sound like a REVO fanboy, but just trying to put some facts accross from a tuers point of view that deals with software for all makes and models and installs software from various tuning developers.
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So can I come along to get the car flashed then please Dave, Tried ringing a few times to get booked in but you dont answer to my phone number :rolleye:
So just say for example that the fault doesnt come on with the oem map file. Then if I pay for a stage 2 map file, this might be ok as it isnt requesting as much from the engine?
As far as causing problems, the only reason I bought the sps device was to turn the car down a bit for the summer months etc, as I didnt see that running B9T5F5 would have been a goog idea with the stock IC when it eventually starts to get warm up in the summer :wink:
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Just so that people are aware there are 2 versions of stock mode.
1. Sps switch stock, just lowers the boost and timing settings to get close to stock power
2. Full stock mode, only available from a Revo dealer and flashes a full factory original file to the Ecu. This file will be an identical file to the one that the car left the factory with, and in most cases its fully up to date with the latest factory updates.
As i have said that isn't always the case.
As a tuner you are always stuck between a rock and a hard place, do you tune for low power figures just to be safe but miles behind the competition when it comes to real power gains or tune for maximum reliable gains and be accused of pushing things too hard?
Agree not everyone is going to be happy. But tuning for maximum power gains isn't the be all and end all. I want a safe progressive map that gives me more power/torque but not necessarily the highest figures. A car with less power & torque can be a hell of a lot quicker if it is able to put all that power down and not piss it away with wheelspin.
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Ive had a low milage 10 plate s3 that had the same fault in revo stock or revo performance mode, but not when flashed to the stock file.
If you look at the fuel adaption on block 032 you will see its miles out. 002 or 003 shows the real time fuel adaptions and you can see on idle the adjustment is massive, with it trying to lean the car out.
From what revo have told me, the idle parts of the revo map are the same as the stock map.
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Hi guys,
I have REVO stage 1 with RSP on my 1.4 TFSI 2008 Golf 5. I had the first remap in Romania, in the first week Revo released the software. There are some points I want to make:
1. Don't blame the REVO software unless you are sure that's the cause. I had the remap and a few weeks after, I got an error "Boost pressure regulation - control range not reached" (the error itself is not important). I thought the software was to blame and got in touch with the REVO dealer that installed the software. He then asked REVO for solutions. REVO advised me to change the DiverterValve (same as in 2.0 TFSI) since I had the first version of DV and another valve (N75 specific to 1.4 TFSI/TSI). After I changed these I still got the error. Than as more people were buying 1.4 TFSI engines I saw that this error was common to stock (completely stock) and remaped cars (no matter the name of the tuner). It turned out to be a SOFTWARE problem, one the VW fixed with a later factory update. REVO than updated its software based on the new release and the problem is solved. I saw that the first thing that REVO does is search for solutions to the problems elsewhere (not in their software). In my case, that was partially right. This is a 2 blade knife... I like that they are confident in their product, but I hope if something comes up that is their fault (if it ever happens) they will act in a different manner.
2. Some cars make more bhp on the dyno than the manufacturer says is does. So it is not a surprise for me that a ED 30 make 240-250 bhp instead of 230.
3. heavyd why don't you go to REVO and ask for a TRUE STOCK setup. I mean tell them you want your REVO Stock software to be as close to stock as possible (as advertised, at least in my case).
Good luck!
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3. heavyd why don't you go to REVO and ask for a TRUE STOCK setup. I mean tell them you want your REVO Stock software to be as close to stock as possible (as advertised, at least in my case).
Good luck!
Thats what I'm trying to do! I'm not blaming revo, I'm just after a stock map to rule the revo map out of the equation
Ive had a low milage 10 plate s3 that had the same fault in revo stock or revo performance mode, but not when flashed to the stock file.
If you look at the fuel adaption on block 032 you will see its miles out. 002 or 003 shows the real time fuel adaptions and you can see on idle the adjustment is massive, with it trying to lean the car out.
From what revo have told me, the idle parts of the revo map are the same as the stock map.
How can Revo say that the idle file is the same, when you said that when its flashed back to stock the problem goes away??
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If the problem dissapears when flashed to stock, does this mean the problem is in the software or is the problem being caused by the effect of the software? An underlying engine problem may not show up under standard performance parameters, but may well do under highly tuned conditions.
....Exactly! And the more you push the performance envelope, the more the liklihood of stress and problems. It's not brain surgery.
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If the problem dissapears when flashed to stock, does this mean the problem is in the software or is the problem being caused by the effect of the software? An underlying engine problem may not show up under standard performance parameters, but may well do under highly tuned conditions.
....Exactly! And the more you push the performance envelope, the more the liklihood of stress and problems. It's not brain surgery.
whilst i fully agree with that, as i posted previously, he wasnt standard. he was fully fledged stage 2+ Bluefin. the only change was a software swap to REVO stage 2+. So it may not have showed up under bluefin, but revo obviously ppushed it straight past its limit (if there is a hardware fault that is)
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I still fail to see what the point is of wringing every last bhp and torque out of the poor thing.
Is it all about waving the old chap around rather than how it performs for you? Seems that way. :confused:
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I still fail to see what the point is of wringing every last bhp and torque out of the poor thing.
Is it all about waving the old chap around rather than how it performs for you? Seems that way. :confused:
im with you on that. i was after wringing it all out of my last car, but i don't plan to do it to this one. i want more power obviously, but i dont want it at the expense of reliability.
there seems to be stage 2+ tuned k04 TFSI issues coming out in the woodwork on a regular basis now especially now that lots of guys have an it for extended periods of time.
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These issues on both K03 & K04 Stage 2+ have nothing to do with REVO software though. Everyone is just getting boost leaks :evilgrin:
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oh of course :grin:
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I'm considering going Custom Code :laugh:
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Make sure you do it @ JBS
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I'm considering going Custom Code :laugh:
I knew things were bad but I think you need to talk to someone first Carl. :surprised: :confused:
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I still fail to see what the point is of wringing every last bhp and torque out of the poor thing.
Is it all about waving the old chap around rather than how it performs for you? Seems that way. :confused:
It wasnt that at all. I got 320bhp on a magical dyno stage 1, then bought a milltek TBE, and a HPFP, paid for stage 2 and 3 bluefin, RR'd at 313bhp, so about 13bhp gain. after I bought those I thought it was a bit of a crap gain for what was fitted, everyone raved about revo, so made the switch as I had a few quid spare. The fact that it took me 2 weeks to get Revo on because of loads of hassle with Revo etc should have been the omen to stay clear.
Hindsight is a fine thing.
I'm seriously thinking about ditching the hpfp and just paying to go stage 2 just to get rid of the engine light as this whole thing is doing my head in now. at least the engine will be less stressed, and if it is the extra power causing the problems, then that might be resolved. get an MOT, serviced, sell up and buy a diesel scirocco :drool: and get custard code installed on it :signLOL:
Can any dealer flash the ecu to stock etc, as I dont think I'm in Daves good books at the minute :scared:
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why do you think the HPFP is @ fault?
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Hey Mr Heavyd I'm not having a dig at you here. :sad1:
I believe it has been said that any Revo dealer can flash you back to stock but may charge for labour.
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why do you think the HPFP is @ fault?
I dont, I just took the internals out to make sure that wasnt causing an issue. I found a Post on the net that a bloke had the same fault code and it was down to the autotech internals. Plus all the scare mongering that was going on about the autotech internals lately, I thought I'd buy an apr one to be safe than sorry. Instead of forking out again, I might just stick with stage 2 if I can get that to work ok, it did on VRs carls car. I've decided to do away with the 'I want a nice graph' to 'I want a car without an engine light on'
Looks like I might have to make the hour drive to the next dealer at 2000rpm then. I'll try and ring dave another 10 times tomorrow he might pick up the phone hopefully :wink:
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Can any dealer flash the ecu to stock etc, as I dont think I'm in Daves good books at the minute :scared:
[/quote]
Any dealer can do it and im happy to do it, but dont think you are not in my good books, you are welcome to pop in at any time and get help or advice, same as anyone else. But as much as I enjoy my job I do need a bit of spare time to myself and with the family, hence not answering calls on a Sunday. Today I have missed 27 calls from unknown numbers on my mobile in the space of leaving it at home for 3 hours to go to the unit and get things ready for the new dyno install :signLOL:
If you like I can do a full factory flash tomorrow. And unlike some claim, this will be a full factory stock file. There will be no charge for this, or to go back to a tuned stage software at a later date, however we do have to charge for time if you want us to dyno test/datalog and set it up again.
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It makes good sense to stick with Dave @ PDT - I have no direct experience of him but he clearly sounds like he knows his onions and has an extremely helpful attitude.
IF, and it is a big IF, you decide for your own reasons to go elsewhere I recommend JKM in Portsmouth as both Revo and Bluefin dealers and a very well established excellent reputation with the 2.0T FSI platform. But only IF - I'm absolutely not suggesting you dump PDT but rather that you stick with him if you can.
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Thanks Dave, I only rang as you said the other day that you were working on Sunday, my apologies. I'll come through tomorrow :happy2:
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Heavyd dude take your car to Dave, he will sort it im sure. Do let us know what the findings are though bud. Hope its something simple. Keep us posted! :happy2:
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Have you had a look to see if there is fuel in your oil, or even changed the oil?
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Have you had a look to see if there is fuel in your oil, or even changed the oil?
The oil smelled of oil, and was very low when I checked it. 40,000 mile service due in a few weeks so was gonna wait until then for an oil change. From what I've read oil levels go up when petrol gets mixed in, and I only topped it up about 6 weeks ago, and then again last week.
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I've been having a scout round and it seems, as you found, a few of these codes have been attributed to faulty Pp's. I know you've swapped the pump out but if the damage has been done and there is a high fuel content in the oil you may be on a wild goose chase.
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I've been having a scout round and it seems, as you found, a few of these codes have been attributed to faulty Pp's. I know you've swapped the pump out but if the damage has been done and there is a high fuel content in the oil you may be on a wild goose chase.
The pump I took out was fine, I'm ordering a new PCV tomorrow aswell, and getting flashed back to stock. I was in 2 minds anyway whether to get a new oem pump or an apr one, but the oil smells fine to me so wasnt sure whether to go down that route. I'll see if it passes Daves nose test tomorrow!
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I tried:
New OEM HPFP
New lambda
New injector seals
New pcv
Oil change
Still had the fault though.
HeavyD, where abouts are you?
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Sounds like some money was spent there :scared:. I'm in the north east Alex. Sounds like It's going to cost me some money
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If the fault comes on with the stock map then you know its the map at fault. If it is the map, then revo will help you out the best they can.
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Oh well, Dave flashed a stock map back onto the car, thanks Dave :happy2:
Thos logs show it is more of a stock map than the last!
But the interesting this is that my lambda values mave changed a lot.
Lambda on idle has gone from -6.6 to 0.8 andpartial from 0.8 to 3.5.
Since its the idle that was causing the problem and running too rich, looks like my car is allergic to Revo, I'll see what happens in the next few days with the fault. looks promising :laugh:
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Bluefin ftw. :wink:
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^^ he's right :innocent:
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no he is not :P
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Revo says its my car as revo code doesnt alter anything on idle compared to stock:signLOL: cough cough
Going to see if the faut code reappears after its 30 miles, then try stage 2 revo, if that fails, 30 day money back and sell the car.
Dont really fancy going back to superchips with my tail between my legs :rolleye:
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Bluefin ftw. :wink:
Maybe some truth in that Ian. Although they aren't without their issues. Excellent customer service though
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What about getting Dave's stage 2/+?
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What about getting Dave's stage 2/+?
As in a PDT 2+ remap?
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What about getting Dave's stage 2/+?
As in a PDT 2+ remap?
Yep. If he's getting a refund from REVO!
Just a thought, something else to consider...
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What about getting Dave's stage 2/+?
As in a PDT 2+ remap?
Yep. If he's getting a refund from REVO!
Just a thought, something else to consider...
Fair point. Id be breaking free with the 30 day money back guarantee before it finishes personally
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Revo says its my car as revo code doesnt alter anything on idle compared to stock:signLOL: cough cough
Going to see if the faut code reappears after its 30 miles, then try stage 2 revo, if that fails, 30 day money back and sell the car.
Dont really fancy going back to superchips with my tail between my legs :rolleye:
try to change HPFP, one of my friend have the same problem!
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if you do that, JKm have just got stock in of a load of APR pumps :happy2:
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Awsome also have a stock of 10 :happy2:
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Heavy D, I have a file to test on your car for you :happy2:
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Heavy D, I have a file to test on your car for you :happy2:
REVO or otherwise Dave??
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Heavy D, I have a file to test on your car for you :happy2:
What sort of map is it Dave?Revo? Stage 2? Should I pop through tomorrow? I'll have done 50 miles by then so should have an idea if the fault has made a return or not. From what they said on the phone, any incarnation of Revo will be the same as my car is faulty :confused: (apart from when it's stock or has a sc remap on it)
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^^ he's right :innocent:
I'm sure I seem to remember someone having the wrong flavour of Tuna for their car from SC :innocent:
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bluefin and CC are tame. Take the car to shark performance or MRC if you cannot get revo to work
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^^ he's right :innocent:
I'm sure I seem to remember someone having the wrong flavour of Tuna for their car from SC :innocent:
As did I but it was easily fixed due to decent customer service and avoidable if you specify which gearbox you have. :smiley: :smiley:
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^^ he's right :innocent:
I'm sure I seem to remember someone having the wrong flavour of Tuna for their car from SC :innocent:
As did I but it was easily fixed due to decent customer service and avoidable if you specify which gearbox you have. :smiley: :smiley:
'tis true, you say theres an issue with the map, and they will send you a revision. No arguments or blame culture, just good customer service. They do seem to do this alot though lol
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I am not sure all this Revo bashing is helpful to the op. It would be easy to post lots of links to other tuners maps causing problems, incidentally it would be a much higher percentage of problems compared to Revo, but again it wont help the op. I can understand if it was proven to be there fault. :smiley: I seem to remember Illyun lambasting Revo as the cause of his woes and even JKM thought it wa,s but it turned out to be something else.
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Fortunately I have not had any problems where I believed the SW was at fault so have not experience the poor customer service REVO others here have. What I will say is that recently I have seen some threads from in another forum where the customer service offered from REVO was excellent and they actually put their hands up and admitted a sw issue.
Well 2 points learned today:
1. Tuners should be spending more time after the map has been put on driving the car in normal circs and not just putting certain settings on a car because they have worked for others (sometimes making the car down on power)
2. Revos customer service has been proved to be very good!
Cut a long story short I was destined to be driving back home 200 miles after 8hrs at revo as everything was failing in the fault diagnosis department and Ben was running out of ideas and I was rapidly going mental.
Loads of logs failed to show anything and the problem persisted.
We then put all the settings (FBT) at 0 and the issue vanished which prompted revo to be very honest and admit it was software related and not my car.
It seems some of the facelift s3's have something different about their ecus that doesn't agree with the revo switchable programme that causes the car to throw a wobbler like mine has done and other peoples exactly the same.
So......a custom stage 2+ programme written for my car (fixed settings and not able to be changed with sps) with different throttle settings was flashed to my car and due to the time I was asked to try it driving home as revo thought they had cracked it.
Sure enough the 200 odd mile drive was completely misfire/hesitation free to my relief. The throttle settings make it a linear throttle now so how far you press the throttle depends what power you get unlike the standard settings where you could quickly depress the throttle half way and literally get 100% throttle.
It's just a case of me getting used to this driving style now.
I have to report back to revo tomorrow who are going to revisit their code and update it with a view of developing a switchable code that also solves my initial issues. Technically my car has been a test mule today with loads of logs taken.
I'm happy with the new settings as the car flys and is very strong on full throttle.
Hopefully revo Kev or Ben the workshop manager will be on here to provide a more technical update than me as all I can give is layman's terms!
So.....its not plugs,coils,maf's,intakes,exhausts,theway you sit in a car and whether it's a full moon that makes your car run ***** so before spending a fortune replacing stuff blind on Internet whims take it to revo like I did and they will resolve it!
Followed by this from REVO Kev:
Nice to meet you yesterday, we really appreciate you taking the time to come to us and letting us look into the issue on your car. Sorry I wasnt around later on in the day... got called home due to the entire family having this sick bug thats going round!
We currently have the software engineers looking into the profile for the later facelift cars, there's something that really wasn't happy on your car. That said it's not all 2.0TFSI's that are affected. The Golf R we had in yesterday doesn't suffer from the same issue, neither do the facelift Leon Cupra's that we have dealers running. I spent a bit of time yesterday speaking to dealers from various parts of the world that run the later spec cars themselves. There are 5 (off the top of my head) variations of the factory S3 2.0TFSI software, this issue looks to be specific to the one in your car however the team is looking into it right now so we'll know for sure if it's isolated to that software code later this week (hopefully). Whatever updates we do we'll make available foc, we're currently testing some internal software that compiles all the data from our dealer logfiles this should let me find out how many cars have been flashed and need updating once we know which codes are to be updated.
In regards to Revo settings; we spoke yesteday about running things too high. Boost 9 will always request a higher level of tune throughout the rev range however it will only be achieved if the conditions are acceptable. I'm a big believer in more isn't always better however there's far too much emphasis on big peak numbers (which lets face it, that's normally the first thing we all look at!). The adjustability in the Revo software is there to allow each car to be setup to give the owner the best possible drive from their car and modifications. The ECU is adaptive so it will try to compensate if it sees something it doesn't like, asking too much from a car will cause the ECU to pull load out and the car can feel a little sluggish and not quite as smooth as it can be. It's the timing settings that I tend to see as being set too high the most. That said I've never personnally had any issues running boost request at 9 and setting fuelling and timing to suit on any of the Stage2+ spec cars I've run/setup, I believe this 'problem' that we're tracking down is causing a switch of tables at partial throttle/load and this 'hesitation' at this point is being accentuated the more we request from the car.
Life might be much easier if we set a default for each given stage, however in doing that it would have to be at a level that caters for the worst possible fuel, conditions and hardware which would be a huge way off the potential of the vast majority of the cars we see (Especially in the UK as we have pretty bad weather which the cars love!!!) and we all want the most from our cars!
Thanks again for coming in yesterday, as soon as we have a full update we'll be in touch and will let everyone know!
Full thread here:
http://www.vagoc.co.uk/vb/showthread.php?t=5399
So as you can see sometimes they do put their hands up and admit the SW is at fault.
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That's actually an issue that's been around since 2008 but has only recently come to light and the person in question did jump through hoops before the software was eventually accepted as the cause.
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^^ he's right :innocent:
I'm sure I seem to remember someone having the wrong flavour of Tuna for their car from SC :innocent:
As did I but it was easily fixed due to decent customer service and avoidable if you specify which gearbox you have. :smiley: :smiley:
He's right :P :signLOL:
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One of super chips programmers now works for revo!
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Good news is that fault code has stayed away and I;ve done twice the miles that it usually taes to appear, and 6mpg better off!, bad news I cant get a revo file until saturday :sad1:
If Revo doesnt work out, I'm just going to try to get a refund and try elsewhere
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What about getting Dave's stage 2/+?
As in a PDT 2+ remap?
Yep. If he's getting a refund from REVO!
Just a thought, something else to consider...
Fair point. Id be breaking free with the 30 day money back guarantee before it finishes personally
I've decided to jump ship, sick of the whole affair now. Just waiting for Dave and I'm going for the refund. :sad1: :sad1: :sad1: :sad1: :sad1: :sad1: :sad1:
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I say go shark performance with the STS handset. you can 100% swap between OEM stock and performance maps when ever you want then.
REGI on here has shark performance stage 2 on his ed30 http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,20142.msg277535.html#msg277535 (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,20142.msg277535.html#msg277535) not the biggest review though :grin:
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Shark performance or RTech are also very well sorted :happy2:
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+1, heard lots of good stuff about Rtech as well. id also consider P-Torque
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Thumbs up for P-Torque :happy2:
I've had 3 of Will's maps now :smiley:
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When I get my money back(Revo said it's straight forward, not so sure it's going to be) I think I might try shark, nobody has anything bad to say about his maps, his maps are the staple diet over on briskoda. Will be interesting to see if the fault code reappears if I do get it mapped there anyway. Fingers crossed Dave refunds me quick so I can get the third and final map on the car :driver:
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heavyd - I think you should change your name to Ordnance Survey :wink:
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heavyd - I think you should change your name to Ordnance Survey :wink:
:signLOL:
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When I get my money back(Revo said it's straight forward, not so sure it's going to be) I think I might try shark, nobody has anything bad to say about his maps, his maps are the staple diet over on briskoda. Will be interesting to see if the fault code reappears if I do get it mapped there anyway. Fingers crossed Dave refunds me quick so I can get the third and final map on the car :driver:
are you going to go to mansfield and get it done at his HQ or go straight for the STS option.
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I would go to Mansfield. I gave the bloke a ring, and explained the situation, and he said if I was to go ahead with a remap, would be best if I tried it first, which made sense. Their maps work out about the same as Revo after the sts is added. Web prices don't include vat on their site
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Shark has plenty of experience remapping Skodas but does he have enough experience of the Ed30? - I'm not suggesting he doesn't but am asking because I don't know.
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He's done s3s and leons. If I do go down, I'll be getting a trial anyway. At least I have a couple of remaps to compare it to now :signLOL:
If the fault comes back on the cars going the journey anyway.
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Shark has plenty of experience remapping Skodas but does he have enough experience of the Ed30? - I'm not suggesting he doesn't but am asking because I don't know.
He's more all over the Audi and tyre smoke forums just as much. I think most of his work has been on Audis as well. to be fair they all share the same engines/ECUs so there's only minor changes.
I think the biggest thing with shark performance, and reading threads on briskoda will back this up, is the customer service is absolutely phenomenal. Something which is evidently lacking in others.
@HeavyD give REGI on here a message. hes had stage 2 shark on his ed30 for a fair while now so you'll be able to get info from him on it.
Theres quite a few cupras with stage 1/2/2+ on SCN, cant remember their names though. From my experience and others his figures are comparable to REVO, and much higher than bluefin.
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heavyd - I think you should change your name to Ordnance Survey :wink:
:signLOL:
:signLOL: x2