MK5 Golf GTI

All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: xxx_mojo_xxx on February 23, 2009, 03:18:52 pm

Title: Stock Anti-roll Bar Query
Post by: xxx_mojo_xxx on February 23, 2009, 03:18:52 pm
Does anyone know the thickness of the standard anti-roll bars on the GTi, and GTi ED30? Presumably, the ED30 may be slightly higher rated?
Title: Re: Stock Anti-roll Bar Query
Post by: joesgti on February 23, 2009, 03:24:09 pm
they are both the same, dont know the size, just like the susspension is identicle on the ed30 and gti  :smiley:
Title: Re: Stock Anti-roll Bar Query
Post by: xxx_mojo_xxx on February 23, 2009, 03:43:19 pm
Anyone with the eibach ARBs installed can tell me how much thicker the eibach ones were?
Title: Re: Stock Anti-roll Bar Query
Post by: tony_danza on February 23, 2009, 03:50:09 pm
It isn't just bar diameter, there's material and tensile strength to consider and generally they don't list this info.. so one 25mm bar may be different to another.
Title: Re: Stock Anti-roll Bar Query
Post by: xxx_mojo_xxx on February 23, 2009, 04:06:01 pm
Point taken. So, how do you know how much better the replacement ones will be?
Title: Re: Stock Anti-roll Bar Query
Post by: tony_danza on February 23, 2009, 04:32:28 pm
You pick a company that you know will have done some decent research, not someone who just pattern copies these companies with crap spec materials.

Eibach and H&R seem to favour a staggered approach with a smaller diameter rear bar and get very good reviews. The Yank ones like Neuspeed and Autotech go for matched front and rear diameter.

I have the Autotech ones and the car is very neutral. I've had H&R in the past on other cars and they were exceptional quality too. Stick to one of those 4 and I think you're fine.
Title: Re: Stock Anti-roll Bar Query
Post by: joesgti on February 23, 2009, 04:37:40 pm
i have the eibachs, theres a decent bit of kit, not sure on the sizes though. noticable difference to std  :smiley:
Title: Re: Stock Anti-roll Bar Query
Post by: xxx_mojo_xxx on February 23, 2009, 04:38:55 pm
Do you notice a real difference in the driving dynamics directly attributable to the ARBs?
Title: Re: Stock Anti-roll Bar Query
Post by: MAT ED30 on February 23, 2009, 04:41:03 pm
just do the rear and add the walk kit to the front  :wink: saves dropping the subframe on the front and gives a very good turn in at the front and a stiff rear that follows well  :driver:
Title: Re: Stock Anti-roll Bar Query
Post by: joesgti on February 23, 2009, 04:44:17 pm
Do you notice a real difference in the driving dynamics directly attributable to the ARBs?

yups, less body roll being very noticable, as mat said the front is a b@stard to fit without a ramp, but the setup mat suggested is also very good  :smiley:
Title: Re: Stock Anti-roll Bar Query
Post by: xxx_mojo_xxx on February 23, 2009, 04:54:06 pm
I'm not sure what body roll feels like?  :signIWS:


Title: Re: Stock Anti-roll Bar Query
Post by: Hurdy on February 23, 2009, 05:06:08 pm
You pick a company that you know will have done some decent research, not someone who just pattern copies these companies with crap spec materials.

Eibach and H&R seem to favour a staggered approach with a smaller diameter rear bar and get very good reviews. The Yank ones like Neuspeed and Autotech go for matched front and rear diameter.

I have the Autotech ones and the car is very neutral. I've had H&R in the past on other cars and they were exceptional quality too. Stick to one of those 4 and I think you're fine.

That reminds me..did you get around to putting the ARB's on the harder setting?
Title: Re: Stock Anti-roll Bar Query
Post by: Hurdy on February 23, 2009, 05:07:17 pm
Oh, sorry to the OP. The stock ones are 22mm front and rear. :happy2:
Title: Re: Stock Anti-roll Bar Query
Post by: tony_danza on February 23, 2009, 05:07:40 pm
Aye, just a rear and WALK is a good idea - get an adjustable rear ARB too (I think they all are anyway) so you can tailor it to your style with the turn of a few bolts.
Title: Re: Stock Anti-roll Bar Query
Post by: tony_danza on February 23, 2009, 05:16:27 pm
You pick a company that you know will have done some decent research, not someone who just pattern copies these companies with crap spec materials.

Eibach and H&R seem to favour a staggered approach with a smaller diameter rear bar and get very good reviews. The Yank ones like Neuspeed and Autotech go for matched front and rear diameter.

I have the Autotech ones and the car is very neutral. I've had H&R in the past on other cars and they were exceptional quality too. Stick to one of those 4 and I think you're fine.

That reminds me..did you get around to putting the ARB's on the harder setting?

No, never got around to it and it stopped as soon as I changed wheels - so it must have been the frequency caused by the wheel's weight.

I'm tempted to just stick the rear on hard for some lift-off fun!!
Title: Re: Stock Anti-roll Bar Query
Post by: xxx_mojo_xxx on February 23, 2009, 05:30:15 pm
Do ARBs make ur ride harder?  Particularly in the ride comfort aspects... got a a wife and two kids that I some times take out for a spin.


Title: Re: Stock Anti-roll Bar Query
Post by: tony_danza on February 23, 2009, 05:32:47 pm
They can do indirectly, yes. Depends how you set them up and what you have with them, like coilovers etc. On standard kit, I doubt you'd notice it.
Title: Re: Stock Anti-roll Bar Query
Post by: xxx_mojo_xxx on August 04, 2009, 10:42:01 pm
OK guys it's been a while... I think I've whittled it down to H&R anti-roll bars. 

H&R do two different ARB kits, one where the front bar diameter is 26mm, rear 22mm - or the mother of all ARB kits where the fronts are 28mm and rears 24mm.

Not too sure what the dropping of the front sub-frame is all about?  Can some one explain that one please  :stupid:?
Title: Re: Stock Anti-roll Bar Query
Post by: gazbutS3 on August 04, 2009, 10:45:46 pm
to get the old ARB out and the new ARB in, you need to drop the front subframe down to get enough clearance to do the job, which makes it a bit more time consuming and means an alignment check is needed afterwards :smiley:
Title: Re: Stock Anti-roll Bar Query
Post by: john_o on August 05, 2009, 10:53:54 am
drop the front subframe down t
and means an alignment check is needed afterwards :smiley:
mm interesting my subframe is being removed to fit the lower VWR mount, Im torn about whether to have an alignment done....
Title: Re: Stock Anti-roll Bar Query
Post by: RedRobin on August 05, 2009, 11:32:12 am

Anyone with the eibach ARBs installed can tell me how much thicker the eibach ones were?


....26 mm front | 23 mm rear.

There are two settings at the droplink, one being harder than the other. See 2 holes in pic : -

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FRedRobin_05%2FMods%2FARBdroplink.jpg&hash=3882d473632979ccaafd6e156cf79fe032fac988)
Title: Re: Stock Anti-roll Bar Query
Post by: xxx_mojo_xxx on August 05, 2009, 02:00:22 pm
Cheers, guys! 

Phase 2 of my modding exercise has officially commenced.  :pomppomp:


Ordered the H&R ARBs today - got to wait a week.  Apparently it's got to be H&R because of my Xenons.  There's a sensor that attaches to the rear ARB which H&R cater for and Eibach doesn't.

Also ordered a set of 360x30mm two piece discs with 6 pot calipers...got to wait 3-4 weeks for them.

Can't wait  :drool:  :party:

I was advised against the anti-lift kit - apparently a few cars have had problems with them getting loose where the bushes wear over a period of time.  Thoughts/experiences?

Title: Re: Stock Anti-roll Bar Query
Post by: john_o on August 05, 2009, 02:38:40 pm
re : WALK , not as yet but will check next week , my WALKS now been on for 13k miles ...
Title: Re: Stock Anti-roll Bar Query
Post by: xxx_mojo_xxx on August 05, 2009, 02:43:57 pm
re : WALK , not as yet but will check next week , my WALKS now been on for 13k miles ...
Spoke to a guy who does the Nurburgring and he mentioned that a a number of scoobies have shown flexing and started making noises.  It may be something specific to those cars... 

I'm still in two minds...should I get the WALK fitted with the ARBs, or is it money better spent elsewhere?
Title: Re: Stock Anti-roll Bar Query
Post by: tony_danza on August 05, 2009, 02:50:14 pm
No WALK issues on mine, they've been on for 15k+... and battered HARD around the UK and Germany's finest.

I'd pay no attention to hearsay, particularly when it isn't even on the same type of car.
Title: Re: Stock Anti-roll Bar Query
Post by: SteveP on August 05, 2009, 03:36:06 pm
No WALK issues on mine, they've been on for 15k+... and battered HARD around the UK and Germany's finest.

I'd pay no attention to hearsay, particularly when it isn't even on the same type of car.

x 2, mine's been on for 22K and when last inspected wasn't showing any major signs of wear  :happy2:
Title: Re: Stock Anti-roll Bar Query
Post by: xxx_mojo_xxx on August 05, 2009, 04:37:42 pm
So are you guys saying I should bite the bullet and go for the WALK kit and get it fitted along with the ARBs?
Title: Re: Stock Anti-roll Bar Query
Post by: MAT ED30 on August 05, 2009, 04:42:48 pm
i ripped my centre bushes on my walk kit  :surprised: even whiteline How TF did that happen  :surprised: but they sent me new bushes for free
Title: Re: Stock Anti-roll Bar Query
Post by: xxx_mojo_xxx on August 05, 2009, 04:58:43 pm
How long are the WALK kits guaranteed for?
Title: Re: Stock Anti-roll Bar Query
Post by: RedRobin on August 05, 2009, 06:29:05 pm
....

No probs with my WALKs so far. I've also got aftermarket poly bushes on the other sides of the wishbones (not essential but just to help balance stresses).
Title: Re: Stock Anti-roll Bar Query
Post by: BMX on August 05, 2009, 06:39:26 pm
eibach arbs are for cars with or without xenons, h&r do a different bar for each for some reason? i have xenons and eibach arbs, also you cant gauge the stock bars in size against the h&r and eibach as the stock bars are hollow, and the eibach and h&r are solid. on the eibach and h&r there are 2 positions, the inner being stiffer. to start with i fitted the rear only on the soft setting and on its own it really improved the roll, but it imediately made the front feel soft, when i fitted the front it sorted things out, i now have the front on the outer soft and the rear on inner firm and it feels great, at the weekend i will be having a bit more of a mess around with the possitions.
Title: Re: Stock Anti-roll Bar Query
Post by: MAT ED30 on August 05, 2009, 06:57:23 pm
....

No probs with my WALKs so far. I've also got aftermarket poly bushes on the other sides of the wishbones (not essential but just to help balance stresses).

i am having those done at vwr soon  :smiley:
Title: Re: Stock Anti-roll Bar Query
Post by: xxx_mojo_xxx on August 05, 2009, 07:41:47 pm
....

No probs with my WALKs so far. I've also got aftermarket poly bushes on the other sides of the wishbones (not essential but just to help balance stresses).

RR, how many miles have you done one your WALKs?
Title: Re: Stock Anti-roll Bar Query
Post by: xxx_mojo_xxx on August 05, 2009, 07:42:56 pm
....

No probs with my WALKs so far. I've also got aftermarket poly bushes on the other sides of the wishbones (not essential but just to help balance stresses).

i am having those done at vwr soon  :smiley:
Can you pls send me details of this? I may as well get these done whilst the guts of my car are sprawled out.
Title: Re: Stock Anti-roll Bar Query
Post by: SteveP on August 05, 2009, 08:04:33 pm
^^^ Have a read of this post - http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=395.msg22225#msg22225

I haven't found the need to uprate the bush on the other side of the WALK as I haven't seen any excessive wear on it. But if I was going to replace it I would just get the powerflex bush then.

For info the bush we are referring to is -  Front Wishbone Inner Bush (Front) Part Number PFF85-501

http://www.powerflex.co.uk/products/Golf+Mk5+1K+inc.+GTI+%26+R32+%282004-%29-737/1.html
Title: Re: Stock Anti-roll Bar Query
Post by: RedRobin on August 05, 2009, 08:06:07 pm
....

No probs with my WALKs so far. I've also got aftermarket poly bushes on the other sides of the wishbones (not essential but just to help balance stresses).

i am having those done at vwr soon  :smiley:

Can you pls send me details of this? I may as well get these done whilst the guts of my car are sprawled out.


....They're a Powerflex bush which VWR use. Pics : -

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FRedRobin_05%2FMods%2FVWR_WishboneBushes.jpg&hash=18b07a7651b64a34da1ac75966e401f104314cfd)

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FRedRobin_05%2FMods%2FVWR_WishboneBushWALK.jpg&hash=3513d5f682a497ec76d6e8a2721820877b48ab6d)


RR, how many miles have you done one your WALKs?


....Er................ :stupid: ..............I'd have to delve into all my paperwork.......Quite a few thousand miles.......Over 10,000.
Title: Re: Stock Anti-roll Bar Query
Post by: MAT ED30 on August 05, 2009, 08:07:47 pm
i have done over 20k on mine and thats with track days so that might have helped kill them  :surprised:
Title: Re: Stock Anti-roll Bar Query
Post by: xxx_mojo_xxx on August 05, 2009, 09:39:49 pm
Nothing appears to be simple or straight cut as it initially appears.

Key questions that come to mind:

Title: Re: Stock Anti-roll Bar Query
Post by: tony_danza on August 05, 2009, 09:49:15 pm
Yes it makes a difference.

Yes, at some point the inner bushes will need replacing, just like anything - I imagine 40k would be a reasonable guess at a changeover point.

My inners showed no signs of wear, they were however replaced for Poly whilst the wishbones were off. I'm really anal about having things checked post track day, I follow the rule of replacing cheap things often, rather than leaving things to fester and possibly affect something more expensive.

ARBs and dynamic camber via castor are completely different things, but compliment each other accordingly.

Title: Re: Stock Anti-roll Bar Query
Post by: RedRobin on August 05, 2009, 09:54:25 pm
^^^^

Hi Mo,

Regarding info about the WALKs you'll find out quite a bit in this thread : -

Linky : - Whiteline Anti Lift Kit Review.... (http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=395.0)

So far, no-one we know of here has experienced probs with the oem bushes when with WALKs. Some of us have fitted the Powerflex poly's simply as a preventative measure as there is a logic in transmitted forces transferring to the weaker (oem) bush. We are being over cautious perhaps but it's so easy to do the poly's while fitting the WALKs.  

HTH :happy2:
Title: Re: Stock Anti-roll Bar Query
Post by: Msportman on August 05, 2009, 10:13:29 pm
Thankfully there was no need to fit the WALK kit with KW Clubsports.

VWR don't run them with this type of KW set up due to the front adjustable top mounts that you can adjust camber.

Brilliant piece of kit....may consider ARB's in the future but probably do brakes then diff next.
Title: Re: Stock Anti-roll Bar Query
Post by: tony_danza on August 06, 2009, 09:02:05 am
Do the Clubsports adjust for castor??