MK5 Golf GTI
General => Random Chat => Topic started by: RedRobin on February 09, 2011, 09:02:59 pm
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BBC1 Panorama.. Now..
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Watching.
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It's about time war veterans were given more organised support and this prog communicated the problems very well. It wasn't much different in my father's day either.
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Any good? i end not to watch his stuff, i like my job, but watching stuff like that puts makes me reconsider lol
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A lot of food for thought in that documentary, I for one was humbled with the Ross Kemp series and if you want to get a full idea of what is really happening the Restrepo program on Nat Geo is enthralling inspirational and sad and bloody frightening, its about US soldiers but could easily be about British freinds of mine that are out there at the mo.
It was amazing the guy who walked Afghanistani sand into his hallway after being discharged.....its wrong on so many levels
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It was Iragi sand Dave but yes you are right. Wrong, wrong, wrong.
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Any good? i end not to watch his stuff, i like my job, but watching stuff like that puts makes me reconsider lol
....It was good in that it will have shown more civilian people how badly some need help adjusting to civvy life after their war experiences. Some serious and totally understandable stresses - Even simple things like getting freaked out by fireworks every 5th November. Obviously it isn't quite so tough for everyone leaving the services but there are too many who need help and historically haven't been given any. And I don't mean having money thrown at them when I say "help".
Sy, in theory it must surely help to cope later having some awareness of the downside and even more important to know where help can be got. Part of the problem is that guys tend to think "if I can cope with front line action in Iraq etc, then I can cope afterwards back home" and consequently don't seek help. I'm not managing to write this very well but hopefully you get my drift.
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Kind of makes you think who the real victims of war are, those who are killed in action or those who make it back home.
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It was amazing the guy who walked Afghanistani sand into his hallway after being discharged.....its wrong on so many levels
It was Iraqi sand Dave but yes you are right. Wrong, wrong, wrong.
....What struck me as so wrong about was that it demonstrated beyond any doubt the fact that the soldier had been discharged without any care whatsoever - Virtually dumped off an aeroplane and also in the same way that someone is discharged from prison after completing their sentence.
Personally I didn't see it wrong on any additional levels but would be grateful to learn what I've missed regarding that, please. :happy2:
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Kind of makes you think who the real victims of war are, those who are killed in action or those who make it back home.
....Quite. And it's the same problem in the U S of A, in fact often worse because of the gun laws.
I'm very anti soldiers being sent to places like Afghanistan at all but I also recognise and hugely respect how they are family to each other and risk their lives for each other, not just for some notion of patriotism. They need support regardless of the missions which politicians send them on.
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i see where you coming from RR :happy2:. Im just pleading ignorance lol
In all fairness the aftercare and welfare now available to troops before, during and after ops is excellent. To the point of being ridiculous. Another issue was many years ago it wasnt manly to talk about stuff like that, and guys just kept it in. that mindset isnt so much anymore.
We were involved in a very near miss with a 107mm rocket in Iraq 2006. We were pestered beyond belief about 'how we were coping' and 'did we need to talk' to the point we ended up putting complaints in. The help is there, guys have full access and support, they just have to take it upon themselves to bring it to their attention at times.
There is also alot of effort going into teaching management at all levels to recognise the signs of trauma in others and themselves
The biggest issue's you have are the wives. When the rumours get back to your units, the stories literally have grown arms and legs and all sorts of rumours get to the wives.
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Kind of makes you think who the real victims of war are, those who are killed in action or those who make it back home.
....Quite. And it's the same problem in the U S of A, in fact often worse because of the gun laws.
I'm very anti soldiers being sent to places like Afghanistan at all but I also recognise and hugely respect how they are family to each other and risk their lives for each other, not just for some notion of patriotism. They need support regardless of the missions which politicians send them on.
You and me both. Im still confused as to why they are still there.
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i see where you coming from RR :happy2:. Im just pleading ignorance lol
In all fairness the aftercare and welfare now available to troops before, during and after ops is excellent. To the point of being ridiculous. Another issue was many years ago it wasnt manly to talk about stuff like that, and guys just kept it in. that mindset isnt so much anymore.
We were involved in a very near miss with a 107mm rocket in Iraq 2006. We were pestered beyond belief about 'how we were coping' and 'did we need to talk' to the point we ended up putting complaints in. The help is there, guys have full access and support, they just have to take it upon themselves to bring it to their attention at times.
There is also alot of effort going into teaching management at all levels to recognise the signs of trauma in others and themselves
The biggest issue's you have are the wives. When the rumours get back to your units, the stories literally have grown arms and legs and all sorts of rumours get to the wives.
....That's good to hear, Sy (about the aftercare and welfare, not the effect on wives) but isn't that during a 'tour' rather than after discharge into civvy world? I think that because of programmes like tonight and the Help For Heroes campaign, aftercare may improve.
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Kind of makes you think who the real victims of war are, those who are killed in action or those who make it back home.
....Quite. And it's the same problem in the U S of A, in fact often worse because of the gun laws.
I'm very anti soldiers being sent to places like Afghanistan at all but I also recognise and hugely respect how they are family to each other and risk their lives for each other, not just for some notion of patriotism. They need support regardless of the missions which politicians send them on.
You and me both. Im still confused as to why they are still there.
To put it simply...
To stop things like 9/11 and 7/7 being a more common occurrence :smiley:
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I'm very anti soldiers being sent to places like Afghanistan at all but I also recognise and hugely respect how they are family to each other and risk their lives for each other, not just for some notion of patriotism. They need support regardless of the missions which politicians send them on.
You and me both. Im still confused as to why they are still there.
....I think that the reason can be summed up in just one word: "politics!". And that's where it starts to get mighty complicated.
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I'm very anti soldiers being sent to places like Afghanistan at all but I also recognise and hugely respect how they are family to each other and risk their lives for each other, not just for some notion of patriotism. They need support regardless of the missions which politicians send them on.
You and me both. Im still confused as to why they are still there.
To put it simply...
To stop things like 9/11 and 7/7 being a more common occurrence :smiley:
....That's the reason which governments want everyone to believe and who am I to say that there isn't some truth in that, but I'm not convinced that there aren't a number of much larger agendas as well or even considered by those in power to be more important. World strategies etc.
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Lets just say im privvy to more information than anyone on here :wink:
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true, i just design things then make people build them, dont get to do the fun stuff anymore :laugh:
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^^^^
To add:
If America stopped interfering in other cultures would these be reacting aggressively, if at all? These 'enemies' are called "terrorists" but they are only fighting with the limited means at their disposal.
Everyone thinks that 'god' is on their side. All peoples would prefer to live peacefully but it never seems to be possible.
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One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter Robin. :popcornsoda:
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there will always be an issue because there are extremists who will never be happy until they have enforced their sharia law on the rest of the world. anyone who doesn't obey them including their own countrymen and fellow Muslims are victims just as much as the western world
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Lets just say im privvy to more information than anyone on here :wink:
I honestly think that 11/9 and 7/7 are the absolute last reasons that we are there. I think one of the reasons why we are still there is to try and validate the invasion. No WMDs were ever found, can you imagine if at that point all the troupes had been sent back?
At least the soldiers from WW2 returned with a sense of pride in the fact they had secured their families and future generations freedom from the Nazi dictatorship.... what exactly has this conflict achieved?
Im not wanting to belittle the efforts of the troops, after all they are just following orders... but i cant help feel that this is all in vain.
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We all need each other Sy.
Without me you couldn't do your job and without you i couldn't do mine :happy2:
The thing that winds me up (and i'm not aiming this at anyone in particular) is when those who have no clue about what goes on out there or why we are their (apart from what they read on tinternet and see in the media) sit and say "our soldiers shouldn't be out their". Where do they want us to be?? Sat in the UK waiting for Ze German's again? What about all the UK Police, Comms specialists, Development NGO's etc that are out there? Should they not come home too?
Those who have never experienced military life don't understand that sometimes Attack is the best form of defence. I know Uncle Sam has some weird and wonderful ways of doing things. But they are learning their lessons. Often the hard way.
I'm not naive enough (and also pay too much attention in meetings sometimes) to think that every place i get sent is for "the global war on terror". However you could bet your bottom dollar that if we had a situation (like at the height of Irish Terrorism) where people's rucksack's were blowing up on a regular basis, people would be crying out for soldiers to be sent away to curb the violence.
I could go on and on but i won't.
People need to remember what they see in the News etc is manipulated to appear the way the news want it to appear. It's just a shame they very very rarely publish success stories.
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Lets just say im privvy to more information than anyone on here :wink:
I honestly think that 11/9 and 7/7 are the absolute last reasons that we are there. I think one of the reasons why we are still there is to try and validate the invasion. No WMDs were ever found, can you imagine if at that point all the troupes had been sent back?
At least the soldiers from WW2 returned with a sense of pride in the fact they had secured their families and future generations freedom from the Nazi dictatorship.... what exactly has this conflict achieved?
Im not wanting to belittle the efforts of the troops, after all they are just following orders... but i cant help feel that this is all in vain.
You are sadly mistaken then.
Intelligence for Iraq i grant you was flawed but that was due the US relying too heavily on Sat Images and Comms intercepts. Afghanistan is a completely different ball game.
If i told you the no. of Terrorist atrocities that have been prevented as a DIRECT result of boots on the ground in Afghanistan you would be amazed. Some of them would have made 9/11 & 7/7 look tame. A couple of the more recent thwartings have been "accidentally" leaked to the press. Remember the Mumbai Style Simultaneous Strikes on UK, Germany & France!!
If you actually looked at the benefit troops have brought to Helmand province in Afghanistan:
Electricity being provided to over 4million EXTRA people in the Upper Sangin Valley region due to fixing the Hydro Electric plant and installing a second generator.
Running water
Lighting
Education
Afghan Army soldiers being trained (who suffer losses far higher than we do)
Afghan Police being trained (who suffer even more losses)
Bazaar's once allowed to open for a couple of hours a week now thrive for 5 days a week
Etc etc.
Im sure all that is in Vain!
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Lets just say im privvy to more information than anyone on here :wink:
I honestly think that 11/9 and 7/7 are the absolute last reasons that we are there. I think one of the reasons why we are still there is to try and validate the invasion. No WMDs were ever found, can you imagine if at that point all the troupes had been sent back?
At least the soldiers from WW2 returned with a sense of pride in the fact they had secured their families and future generations freedom from the Nazi dictatorship.... what exactly has this conflict achieved?
Im not wanting to belittle the efforts of the troops, after all they are just following orders... but i cant help feel that this is all in vain.
You are sadly mistaken then.
Intelligence for Iraq i grant you was flawed but that was due the US relying too heavily on Sat Images and Comms intercepts. Afghanistan is a completely different ball game.
If i told you the no. of Terrorist atrocities that have been prevented as a DIRECT result of boots on the ground in Afghanistan you would be amazed. Some of them would have made 9/11 & 7/7 look tame. A couple of the more recent thwartings have been "accidentally" leaked to the press. Remember the Mumbai Style Simultaneous Strikes on UK, Germany & France!!
If you actually looked at the benefit troops have brought to Helmand province in Afghanistan:
Electricity being provided to over 4million EXTRA people in the Upper Sangin Valley region due to fixing the Hydro Electric plant and installing a second generator.
Running water
Lighting
Education
Bazaar's once allowed to open for a couple of hours a week now thrive for 5 days a week
Etc etc.
Im sure all that is in Vain!
that'll be me doing that in 5 months :party: im looking forward to it. was lightly involved in the hydro power station project as well.
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Thats a fantastic achievement, but how has that stopped terrorism? (or am i just missing the point?)
I suppose we will never know what could have happened if we hadnt invaded when we did, I might be here arguing why the troops didnt go in sooner.
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I was highlighting some of what troops have achieved in Afghanistan aside from thwarting terrorism.
Terrorism has been stopped in numerous ways mainly by soldiers putting their lives on the line to capture the fcukwits.
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what carl has said and is very true, is that a huge proportion of the terror plots against us originate in the middle east, in particular afghanistan and pakistan.
A direct result of us being out there targeting them on THEIR home soil is that huge amounts of their attempts are thwarted. Of course the large majority is hidden from the public as it would incite FEAR into the civilian population which is exactly what the terrorists want.
The main boots on the ground are the small players in all fairness, its the stuff they 'special mission' that theyre support on the ground allow that make the big deals and differences, but as carl said, you cant have one without the other
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Post of the year right here
We all need each other Sy.
Without me you couldn't do your job and without you i couldn't do mine :happy2:
The thing that winds me up (and i'm not aiming this at anyone in particular) is when those who have no clue about what goes on out there or why we are their (apart from what they read on tinternet and see in the media) sit and say "our soldiers shouldn't be out their". Where do they want us to be?? Sat in the UK waiting for Ze German's again? What about all the UK Police, Comms specialists, Development NGO's etc that are out there? Should they not come home too?
Those who have never experienced military life don't understand that sometimes Attack is the best form of defence. I know Uncle Sam has some weird and wonderful ways of doing things. But they are learning their lessons. Often the hard way.
I'm not naive enough (and also pay too much attention in meetings sometimes) to think that every place i get sent is for "the global war on terror". However you could bet your bottom dollar that if we had a situation (like at the height of Irish Terrorism) where people's rucksack's were blowing up on a regular basis, people would be crying out for soldiers to be sent away to curb the violence.
I could go on and on but i won't.
People need to remember what they see in the News etc is manipulated to appear the way the news want it to appear. It's just a shame they very very rarely publish success stories.
Rich, I work in aviation (at an airport) and when you see armed police patrolling the remote Rendesvous and Fire access gates on the perimeter EVERY 20 MINUTES instead of randomly once a week, its very scary. We had an elevated threat level about two weeks ago, my office is right next to one of those gates and very secluded, to the point that I'm absolutely ashamed to say it but every time somebody from an ethnic background visits the place to drop off a fedex parcel for example you inevitably become suspicious, I'm not proud of my mind working that way im simply scared on occasion. Can you imagine what the world and the threat level would be like if the war on terror wasn't taking place
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But increased security levels at airports (which I approve of as I fly a fair amount) and the actual war are two separate things, admittedly with the same goal.
It shouldn't scare you seeing perimeter patrols every 20 mins... in fact it should make you feel safer.
(any news on those hoses?)
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In the light of what Carl has posted I'm inclined to modify my view but I still can't help having a niggle at the back of my mind which can't discount the existance of other ulterior motives to justify the military invasions.
But, either way, I have very strong feelings indeed that those returning to their UK homes and families, whether physically wounded or not, should be far better looked after than they currently are.
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But increased security levels at airports (which I approve of as I fly a fair amount) and the actual war are two separate things, admittedly with the same goal.
It shouldn't scare you seeing perimeter patrols every 20 mins... in fact it should make you feel safer.
(any news on those hoses?)
PM sent
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But increased security levels at airports (which I approve of as I fly a fair amount) and the actual war are two separate things, admittedly with the same goal.
The reason for those increased patrols are due to intelligence gathered from operations being conducted in places like Afghanistan. Without those operations the security would be at a reduced level giving the terrorists more opportunity to attack
So they are one and the same. :smiley:
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To put it simply...
To stop things like 9/11 and 7/7 being a more common occurrence :smiley:
Don't give me that BS. 7/7/05 was largely home-grown with support from Pakistan. 11/09/01 was orchestrated in Germany and acted out by mostly Saudis and Yemenis, with some training from Afghanistan and Pakistan. All other attempts have been one-off crazies who have a (fortunately) poor understanding of physics. Yes, some potential events may have been averted by action overseas. But just because other events haven't occured doesn't mean the overseas action is preventing them - this is a logical fallacy*.
How many Mid-Eastern/Central-Asian based terror attacks did we face prior to the British involvement in Afghanistan and Iraq? How much more risk are we at now - not just the "boots on the ground", but people at home in the UK?
Hell, the Taliban and mujahadeen were our allies at one point, back when the Soviets were our big bad enemy. Remember Rambo 3? "Dedicated to the brave men and women of Afghanistan".
Yes, there have been attacks against the US originating from Central Asia for many years now. The root cause of this is the Israel/Palestine situation. As long as the US supports Israel blindly in whatever Israel wishes to do, the US will always be regarded as the "great satan", and will be a target for attack from various crazies.
Fortunately, much of the Middle East seems to have forgotten the British role in the creation of this mess, until Tony Blair decided to charge in with Dubya; it wasn't his life that was a risk, it was the soldiers in the theatre, and then ours.
*see the concept of a "bear stone". I have a stone in my pocket, and I have never been attacked by a bear. Ergo, the stone protects me from attack by bears. This is a logical fallacy.
Another point, to put all the current fuss into context. In the sixties and seventies, people lived under the threat of nuclear annhilation; humanity was in serious danger of wiping itself out. It seems to me that whatever current threats we may face (which may or may not be entirely of our own making) are considerably less than the nuclear threat and mutally assured destruction.
I could write more, but we've been over this argument a fair few times already. With regards to the men and women over there, who are being hurt, they deserve better. Better equipment, better pay, better after-service support if they need. The UK government - both the current government, and the previous one - have decided to support the renewal of the British nuclear deterrent, Trident, to the tune of several tens of billions of pounds. This is a weapon system that has never been used, is never likely to be used, and in this day and age, wholly unnecessary. The money spent on Trident could go to far better causes, things the government actually should do - supporting our forces, maintaining the NHS, and keeping higher education open to all. If we're going to lament the lack of support for our fighting men and women, the best thing one can do is write one's MP and ask them about Trident.
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Have you ever been in the armed services and or had to work in a security sensitive area where people drive into your place of work and try to blow themselves up with gas canisters in the boot....
You may say what relevance has that......
It has more relevance than some quote from a 20 year old work of fiction featuring Sylvester Stallone.... :stupid:
Perhaps if you had either voluntarily or involuntarily put yourself in harms way then would it be unreasonable to say you might feel a little bit different can you honestly say your views would not change if you had had a near death experience from somebody who you admit had training in the theatres we currently occupy.
Be honest
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To put it simply...
To stop things like 9/11 and 7/7 being a more common occurrence :smiley:
Don't give me that BS. 7/7/05 was largely home-grown with support from Pakistan. 11/09/01 was orchestrated in Germany and acted out by mostly Saudis and Yemenis, with some training from Afghanistan and Pakistan. All other attempts have been one-off crazies who have a (fortunately) poor understanding of physics. Yes, some potential events may have been averted by action overseas. But just because other events haven't occured doesn't mean the overseas action is preventing them - this is a logical fallacy*.
How many Mid-Eastern/Central-Asian based terror attacks did we face prior to the British involvement in Afghanistan and Iraq? How much more risk are we at now - not just the "boots on the ground", but people at home in the UK?
Hell, the Taliban and mujahadeen were our allies at one point, back when the Soviets were our big bad enemy. Remember Rambo 3? "Dedicated to the brave men and women of Afghanistan".
Yes, there have been attacks against the US originating from Central Asia for many years now. The root cause of this is the Israel/Palestine situation. As long as the US supports Israel blindly in whatever Israel wishes to do, the US will always be regarded as the "great satan", and will be a target for attack from various crazies.
Fortunately, much of the Middle East seems to have forgotten the British role in the creation of this mess, until Tony Blair decided to charge in with Dubya; it wasn't his life that was a risk, it was the soldiers in the theatre, and then ours.
*see the concept of a "bear stone". I have a stone in my pocket, and I have never been attacked by a bear. Ergo, the stone protects me from attack by bears. This is a logical fallacy.
Another point, to put all the current fuss into context. In the sixties and seventies, people lived under the threat of nuclear annhilation; humanity was in serious danger of wiping itself out. It seems to me that whatever current threats we may face (which may or may not be entirely of our own making) are considerably less than the nuclear threat and mutally assured destruction.
I could write more, but we've been over this argument a fair few times already. With regards to the men and women over there, who are being hurt, they deserve better. Better equipment, better pay, better after-service support if they need. The UK government - both the current government, and the previous one - have decided to support the renewal of the British nuclear deterrent, Trident, to the tune of several tens of billions of pounds. This is a weapon system that has never been used, is never likely to be used, and in this day and age, wholly unnecessary. The money spent on Trident could go to far better causes, things the government actually should do - supporting our forces, maintaining the NHS, and keeping higher education open to all. If we're going to lament the lack of support for our fighting men and women, the best thing one can do is write one's MP and ask them about Trident.
It's wise to have the correct facts before getting on one's high horse.
9/11 was planned & orchestrated from within Afghanistan & Pakistan. The cells used where then controlled for training & funding from within Europe. Im not saying where but it was NOT Germany.
7/7 Was as you put it "Home Grown" however they were coerced, influenced, funded & trained by radical extremists from, yes you guessed it, Afghanistan & Pakistan.
The other "one off crazies" are, in the majority, funded & trained from radical extremists from within places like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Yemen, Saudi, Somalia, UAE etc etc. There are a few who decide off their own back to attempt something but the majority of the time it is in support of afore mentioned fcukwits. I'm no physics professor but i know you can easily learn how to do it yourself if you know where to look on the net!!
Taliban have never been our allies. The true Taliban are actually students of the muslim faith. A certain faction of the Mujahadeen, led by Osama Bin Laden, broke away from the main Mujahadeen/CIA alliance in 1989 when they became disillusioned to the way America & it's allies kept up their involvement in Afghanistan as they did not want the country being modelled on a westernised society after the disarray left behind after the Soviet occupation. They called themselves Al-Qaeda which is actually a two fingers to the Americans as this was the CIA code name given to the database of the MJH commanders that the US "thought" they had influence over, Al-Qaeda actually translates as "The Base" When they then took control of the country in Sept 1996 they proclaimed themselves to be Students of Allah and henceforth started to be called the Taliban. They then enforced a shockingly strict interpretation of Sharia Law onto the country. As the main people within Al-Qaeda/Taliban where also some of the main Tribe leaders, they had the manpower and influence to exert this Sharia Law. This then enabled a lot of Extremist groups to use the country for training and planning terrorist attacks in the west.
Overseas action is preventing terrorist attacks on most european countries (not just the UK) on a daily basis. We have faced attacks from Mid Eastern/Central asian countries for as long as i have been doing what i do (nearly 16 years) it is just become easier for them due to the lack of control of immigration into this country. It has also become more publicised due to people's access to the media and the media's clamour for a "story".
The reason the US has suffered more attacks is partly as you have pointed out the Israel/Palestine situation. But is also due to the fact that the US have a bigger presence around the world and the middle east than we do. Pretty much all the countries in the Middle East/Central Asia have their own currency. Yet the one universal currency that they all accept is American Dollars. Try and buy something from a Bazaar in Kabul with some of the Queen's and see what reaction you get!!
Yes the threat we face may not be as great as the "mutual nuclear annihilation" we once faced. That is though until Extremists build a dirty bomb. Something they are seeking to do more vehemently than any other type of attack they plan.
While i agree partly with what you say about Trident, you are very sadly mistaken if you think it is not needed. They very fact we have the deterrent is a major part of our role in the world.
No doubt you will disagree with everything i've said. But just remember there is a world of difference between the what the Media/Internet etc tell you and what the Government report to the main stream public. The truth is somewhere in the middle and that's where i work :smiley:
To bring this back round to being back on topic.
The programme i thought was good and it highlighted where there are shortfalls. However it's, as Tim Collins said, not the MOD's responsibility to sort. It's the governments. The tosh they said about not informing the British Legion due to Data Protection is just that..Tosh!! All that would take to solve is to get a soldier on signing up to sign a waiver to say he agrees on his release that his details are passed to the RBL and no-one else. This then just gets signed annually and also in the last 6 months before leaving and it's problem solved.
I don't consider myself a hero (far from it) and neither do any of the guys i work with. Yes i've been in some sh*tty situations and seen a lot of good friends killed & injured. However i don't want special or preferential treatment. I'm no different to any other human being (Although i am a bit mental & twisted :laugh:). I'm just trained to do a job that others can't/don't want to do. All i do ask is that if i go away and return a Jigsaw Puzzle (i.e. in a box in pieces) that my family are taken care of. I ask that when i leave the forces and I'm unleashed on society that I'm given help to transit back to mainstream life. Sitting in a job interview saying i can slot a terrorist at 500m from the standing position and also post a Brimstone through a letter box isn't going to help me stack shelves in Tesco.
We all have wonderful notions of how things should be done to run this country. But if it actually came to one of us doing the job i think we would find it a damn sight harder than we imagine.
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:notworthy: :congrats:
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It's a vicious circle isn't it. The likes of Israel and America justify to themselves the invasion of foreign lands and cultures (with 'god' on their side) and those invaded hit back with everything they can (with 'god' on their side), be it fighting dirty (IED's, killing who we term as innocent, etc) and go on the attack.
What bothers me is the ulterior motives and agendas of the bigger boys in these war games.
None of this detracts from the fact that those in military service need far more support on a human level. Which is what the TV prog was about.
@ DaveB - I think you missed cmdrfire's point and you took an emotional subjective view rather than an objective look at the bigger picture.
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It's wise to have the correct facts before getting on one's high horse.
9/11 was planned & orchestrated from within Afghanistan & Pakistan. The cells used where then controlled for training & funding from within Europe. Im not saying where but it was NOT Germany.
7/7 Was as you put it "Home Grown" however they were coerced, influenced, funded & trained by radical extremists from, yes you guessed it, Afghanistan & Pakistan.
The other "one off crazies" are, in the majority, funded & trained from radical extremists from within places like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Yemen, Saudi, Somalia, UAE etc etc. There are a few who decide off their own back to attempt something but the majority of the time it is in support of afore mentioned fcukwits. I'm no physics professor but i know you can easily learn how to do it yourself if you know where to look on the net!!
Taliban have never been our allies. The true Taliban are actually students of the muslim faith. A certain faction of the Mujahadeen, led by Osama Bin Laden, broke away from the main Mujahadeen/CIA alliance in 1989 when they became disillusioned to the way America & it's allies kept up their involvement in Afghanistan as they did not want the country being modelled on a westernised society after the disarray left behind after the Soviet occupation. They called themselves Al-Qaeda which is actually a two fingers to the Americans as this was the CIA code name given to the database of the MJH commanders that the US "thought" they had influence over, Al-Qaeda actually translates as "The Base" When they then took control of the country in Sept 1996 they proclaimed themselves to be Students of Allah and henceforth started to be called the Taliban. They then enforced a shockingly strict interpretation of Sharia Law onto the country. As the main people within Al-Qaeda/Taliban where also some of the main Tribe leaders, they had the manpower and influence to exert this Sharia Law. This then enabled a lot of Extremist groups to use the country for training and planning terrorist attacks in the west.
Overseas action is preventing terrorist attacks on most european countries (not just the UK) on a daily basis. We have faced attacks from Mid Eastern/Central asian countries for as long as i have been doing what i do (nearly 16 years) it is just become easier for them due to the lack of control of immigration into this country. It has also become more publicised due to people's access to the media and the media's clamour for a "story".
The reason the US has suffered more attacks is partly as you have pointed out the Israel/Palestine situation. But is also due to the fact that the US have a bigger presence around the world and the middle east than we do. Pretty much all the countries in the Middle East/Central Asia have their own currency. Yet the one universal currency that they all accept is American Dollars. Try and buy something from a Bazaar in Kabul with some of the Queen's and see what reaction you get!!
Yes the threat we face may not be as great as the "mutual nuclear annihilation" we once faced. That is though until Extremists build a dirty bomb. Something they are seeking to do more vehemently than any other type of attack they plan.
While i agree partly with what you say about Trident, you are very sadly mistaken if you think it is not needed. They very fact we have the deterrent is a major part of our role in the world.
No doubt you will disagree with everything i've said. But just remember there is a world of difference between the what the Media/Internet etc tell you and what the Government report to the main stream public. The truth is somewhere in the middle and that's where i work :smiley:
To bring this back round to being back on topic.
The programme i thought was good and it highlighted where there are shortfalls. However it's, as Tim Collins said, not the MOD's responsibility to sort. It's the governments. The tosh they said about not informing the British Legion due to Data Protection is just that..Tosh!! All that would take to solve is to get a soldier on signing up to sign a waiver to say he agrees on his release that his details are passed to the RBL and no-one else. This then just gets signed annually and also in the last 6 months before leaving and it's problem solved.
I don't consider myself a hero (far from it) and neither do any of the guys i work with. Yes i've been in some sh*tty situations and seen a lot of good friends killed & injured. However i don't want special or preferential treatment. I'm no different to any other human being (Although i am a bit mental & twisted :laugh:). I'm just trained to do a job that others can't/don't want to do. All i do ask is that if i go away and return a Jigsaw Puzzle (i.e. in a box in pieces) that my family are taken care of. I ask that when i leave the forces and I'm unleashed on society that I'm given help to transit back to mainstream life. Sitting in a job interview saying i can slot a terrorist at 500m from the standing position and also post a Brimstone through a letter box isn't going to help me stack shelves in Tesco.
We all have wonderful notions of how things should be done to run this country. But if it actually came to one of us doing the job i think we would find it a damn sight harder than we imagine.
Not going to give a full response here (no time) but I appreciate the well thought-out and articulated reply. True, I do disagree with large pieces of it (particularly on Trident), but I do understand and appreciate what you have said, and what you do :happy2:
@Robin, I think that in every conflict, both sides invariably have "God on their side"...
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Lets just say im privvy to more information than anyone on here :wink:
:wink:
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Lets just say im privvy to more information than anyone on here :wink:
:wink:
....C'mon guys, neither of you operate at that level - You're in service. And don't get me wrong, I greatly respect you for it and support you on a human level.
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Lets just say im privvy to more information than anyone on here :wink:
:wink:
....C'mon guys, neither of you operate at that level - You're in service. And don't get me wrong, I greatly respect you for it and support you on a human level.
I operate at no level Robin. I don't know, i can't tell.
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Lets just say im privvy to more information than anyone on here :wink:
:wink:
....C'mon guys, neither of you operate at that level - You're in service. And don't get me wrong, I greatly respect you for it and support you on a human level.
What level? Im just a tool in a box that gets used as appropriate :P
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Lets just say im privvy to more information than anyone on here :wink:
:wink:
....C'mon guys, neither of you operate at that level - You're in service. And don't get me wrong, I greatly respect you for it and support you on a human level.
What level? Im just a tool in a box that gets used as appropriate :P
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fishing4fun.co.uk%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2009%2F06%2Fspanner1.jpg&hash=89c4d94ad4779e4a2b89bfbc08ab571e3dd86428)
:P No offence!
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@ Carl & Dave:
I was interpreting you being "privvy to more information" as suggesting you knew much more about those hidden agendas at the level behind the public face of government. But [said in Faulty Towers Manuel voice]: "I know nothing".
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@ Carl & Dave:
I was interpreting you being "privvy to more information" as suggesting you knew much more about those hidden agendas at the level behind the public face of government. But [said in Faulty Towers Manuel voice]: "I know nothing".
You'd be surprised at what i know RR :wink:
1+1 = 11
Elvis isn't dead
etc etc :booty:
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^^^^
So what's Steve Jobs coming out with next? And when? :drinking:
I guess you'd have to shoot me afterwards if you told me.
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Nothing as my Uncle Steve is having a bit of Time off :grin:
However iPad 2 & iPhone 5 are coming in the Future :wink: :signLOL:
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However iPad 2 & iPhone 5 are coming in the Future :wink: :signLOL:
....Don't worry, your secret is safe with me :wink:
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I guess you'd have to shoot me afterwards if you told me.
Whip round anyone. :P :laugh:
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It won't take long to raise the funds Ian.
A 5.56mm only cost 19p :laugh:
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It won't take long to raise the funds Ian.
A 5.56mm only cost 19p :laugh:
Push the boat out a bit. .50. :grin:
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It won't take long to raise the funds Ian.
A 5.56mm only cost 19p :laugh:
Push the boat out a bit. .50. :grin:
....Yes, don't I at least deserve a titanium tipped carbonfibre bullet? For services rendered and all that? I need to go out in style you know.
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I'll just file a X in the tip of the round which will cause it to Splay on impact. :wink:
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naughty carl, one mustn't tamper with ammunition. Just use a UGL round instead :grin: :grin:
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naughty carl, one mustn't tamper with ammunition. Just use a UGL round instead :grin: :grin:
That's only when conforming to the Geneva Convention.
However for Robin i'm prepared to bend the rules :laugh:
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If you believe beyond all reasonable doubt that RR poses a direct threat to the lovely ladies posted in the 'Vag Babes' thread, then its fair game
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If you believe beyond all reasonable doubt that RR poses a direct threat to the lovely ladies posted in the 'Vag Babes' thread, then its fair game
I'd say anything that is classed as Female :grin:
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If you believe beyond all reasonable doubt that RR poses a direct threat to the lovely ladies posted in the 'Vag Babes' thread, then its fair game
I'd say anything that is classed as Female :grin:
I'd say anything..... :wink:
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If you believe beyond all reasonable doubt that RR poses a direct threat to the lovely ladies posted in the 'Vag Babes' thread, then its fair game
....Do a RR post count in VAG Babes and I reckon you'll find that a lot more than half of them were 'introduced' by me :smiley:
Can I pick my own execution squad?:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FRedRobin_05%2FHotties%2FIsraeliBabe.jpg&hash=f8a22aa874bc27133e39935372856f74438868b6)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.motifake.com%2Fimage%2Fdemotivational-poster%2F1002%2Fzombie-apocalypse-zombie-babe-rifle-demotivational-poster-1265519784.jpg&hash=0bd80b9c07a0861108406a4fdc93ea2cc308af91)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm4.static.flickr.com%2F3063%2F2946395355_abc379d690.jpg&hash=f2035be4014ddc1690ec489555ed6ca80c3cee95)
^ Rachelle Leah in Iraq (the real thing)
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Lets just say im privvy to more information than anyone on here :wink:
they need to keep morale high some how don't they - just tell the squaddies the end of the world is nigh and they will keep on fighting, while the government back home slowly takes away their benefits and perks
my dad spent 40+ years of his life in the armed services, passed the para's aged 18 (youngest ever at the time) then fought in borneo, malaya, falklands, ni etc for him to be treated like a piece of turd on your shoe when he was diagnosed with a brain tumor during his 36th year in service
the subsequent decade long battle with army pension services to get what he was rightly deserved, only came to conclusion about a month ago, 4 years since he passed away...
i have great respect for our servicemen and women i just wish those that send them in to battle have the same
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Lets just say im privvy to more information than anyone on here :wink:
they need to keep morale high some how don't they - just tell the squaddies the end of the world is nigh and they will keep on fighting, while the government back home slowly takes away their benefits and perks
my dad spent 40+ years of his life in the armed services, passed the para's aged 18 (youngest ever at the time) then fought in borneo, malaya, falklands, ni etc for him to be treated like a piece of turd on your shoe when he was diagnosed with a brain tumor during his 36th year in service
the subsequent decade long battle with army pension services to get what he was rightly deserved, only came to conclusion about a month ago, 4 years since he passed away...
i have great respect for our servicemen and women i just wish those that send them in to battle have the same
....Well written, James - That's almost exactly word for word how I feel about the situation.