MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: RustyGTI on February 18, 2011, 10:54:10 pm
-
Help...
Ok, so I don't think my standard '07 Golf GTi with DSG is exactly slow but I was 'playing' with an '07 Skoda Octavia VRs on the way home this evening and even though I was behind him at the top of the slip road going onto the motorway, I had the horrible mental and visual feeling I was being left behind with foot hard down...
Surely this shouldn't happen?! My first reaction was that he was running a remap of some sort...and as I was chasing him (or watching him pull away) I saw a little flame deep inside the exhaust presumably as he changed gear. Would this be indicative of a remap? Please tell me it's a mapped Octavia...:-)
Irony is I'm currently looking into a Superships stage 1 map and a suitable panel filter (recommendations welcome)...bet he wouldn't pull away then!!
Russ
-
why wouldnt it be like this??
Same engine, same gear box, same chassis...... The octavia is slightly heavier but is more aerodynamic. They are neigh on identical in performance.
He wouldnt have been running a remap otherwise he would have literally driven off.
Some guys get confused with the performance of the vRS though. The TDI170 and 2.0T (200ps) are visually identical with no way of knowing without listening to the engine, so sometimes yuo'll hammer one because its diesel next time they are the same because either its a mapped diesel or standard petrol
-
As Sy has said same Chassis and Engine.
It definately wasn't mapped though (unless it was a crap map) as they get 260lb/ft+ from just a map and he would have pulled cleanly away.
Or maybe he wasn't trying :laugh:
-
Flame in the exhaust would indicate a decat plus complimentary map of course. :scared:
-
this is why the octavia was such a good car. So many people have no idea what power they run, or can ruun when fettled. they expect it of a golf etc, but not the skoda.
nobody likes being beaten by a skoda as we can see above :P :P :wink: :wink:
-
Love the way the x-Vrs owners piled in first! :signLOL:
Yeh you should have left that lardy barge for dead, now go hang your head in shame and never show your face here again! :signLOL:
-
were slowly taking over this site.....
-
Love the way the x-Vrs owners piled in first! :signLOL:
Yeh you should have left that lardy barge for dead, now go hang your head in shame and never show your face here again! :signLOL:
I still have my vRS :P
-
Nothing to do with being beaten by a Skoda, got everything to do with having exactly the same engine (and DSG in my favour), so therefore outcome should have been identical there or there abouts, no?
PS: Definitely was not a diesel!!
-
Love the way the x-Vrs owners piled in first! :signLOL:
Yeh you should have left that lardy barge for dead, now go hang your head in shame and never show your face here again! :signLOL:
I still have my vRS :P
Yeh but we let you stay as you have other uses! :P
-
Nothing to do with being beaten by a Skoda, got everything to do with having exactly the same engine (and DSG in my favour), so therefore outcome should have been identical there or there abouts, no?
No mate. You have to think about reaction times.
Even when prepared he still had the drop on you as he knew when he was going to boot it whereas you had to react. So unless you have a fair bit more power then he will pull away slightly as he has got on the power quicker.
-
Love the way the x-Vrs owners piled in first! :signLOL:
Yeh you should have left that lardy barge for dead, now go hang your head in shame and never show your face here again! :signLOL:
I still have my vRS :P
Yeh but we let you stay as you have other uses! :P
Ok I'll go and put the Kettle on :laugh:
-
:popcornsoda:
-
I'd have thought he has some software on there or that your car isn't running as sweet as it could be. I think it takes a very keen driver to be able to make changes as quickly as DSG, coupled with the slight weight advantage he probably shouldn't have been pulling away.
-
Love the way the x-Vrs owners piled in first! :signLOL:
Yeh you should have left that lardy barge for dead, now go hang your head in shame and never show your face here again! :signLOL:
I still have my vRS :P
Yeh but we let you stay as you have other uses! :P
Ok I'll go and put the Kettle on :laugh:
Good man, two sugars please..... :grin:
-
But as carl says, a stage 1 car has 40hp and 70lbft+ extra and it would have been pulling out a huge lead on it.
Ultimately you got beaten by a skoda and should feel ashamed :P :P :P
-
Good man, two sugars please..... :grin:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.t-shirtprinter.com%2Fimages%2Fdesigns%2Fkipper%2520tie.png&hash=dbcfe3470c3871302a98deed7f5601edeb637d0a)
-
I'm not ashamed at all, wasted plenty of Skoda's when I had my 450 Chimaera... :P
Am definitely going to get a remap, he won't be doing that again in a hurry!! :smiley:
-
But then you might come across someone like me who has a 270bhp Skoda :P
You will always find someone with a car you think should be slower but infact is a lot quicker. I really wouldn't lose any sleep over it :happy2:
-
theres nothing faster, well maybe a 280hp vRS or a 320Hp vRS....
-
I'm not ashamed at all, wasted plenty of Skoda's when I had my 450 Chimaera... :P
When it ran. :P
-
Good man, two sugars please..... :grin:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.t-shirtprinter.com%2Fimages%2Fdesigns%2Fkipper%2520tie.png&hash=dbcfe3470c3871302a98deed7f5601edeb637d0a)
Ah the old 'kipper tie'....... yam yams love a cup a taaaaay. :laugh:
-
Contrary to popular belief, never had any issues with my Chimaera...only a tweaked Rover V8 at the end of the day, not rocket science...
...just out of interest what map are you running to get 270bhp from the Skoda? Superchips quoted 40bhp and 40lb/ft from the stage 1 map for the 2.0 TFSI engine...
Thanks
-
REVO Stage 2
APR Pump
EVOMS CAI
Neuspeed Turbo Outlet
Neuspeed Intercooler Pipe
S3 Intercooler
Miltek TBE
That's just the power mods :wink:
270bhp and 290lbft on JKM's rollers :happy2:
-
Contrary to popular belief, never had any issues with my Chimaera...only a tweaked Rover V8 at the end of the day, not rocket science...
...just out of interest what map are you running to get 270bhp from the Skoda? Superchips quoted 40bhp and 40lb/ft from the stage 1 map for the 2.0 TFSI engine...
Thanks
40Hp 40hp is exactly what i got out of my vRS with super chips stage 1. With shark performance stage 1 it made 240Hp 270lbft.
Myself and quite a few others on briskoda found the bluefin really poor on the k03 TFSI especially from stage 2 onwards. hence why lots of us changed software
-
Check out BDMAlex's Vrs Estate, Avant if you want to be posh.
I would suggest when he finally gets the Hybrid KO4 fitted it will take more than a stage 1 DSG GTI to keep up!
I have a Golf so I am not biased in any way towards one or the other but Alex's is particularily lush to look at and I imagine drive.
-
It may indicate that yours isn't running as it should. Changed your dv recently ?
-
But as carl says, a stage 1 car has 40hp and 70lbft+ extra and it would have been pulling out a huge lead on it.
Ultimately you got beaten by a skoda and should feel ashamed :P :P :P
Stupid bloody iPhone! You really didn't deserve thanks for that post lol
-
I'd have thought he has some software on there or that your car isn't running as sweet as it could be. I think it takes a very keen driver to be able to make changes as quickly as DSG, coupled with the slight weight advantage he probably shouldn't have been pulling away.
I agree.. The only way a vRS should pull on a DSG GTI (that's tucked up behind it) is if it is modded in some way (ie most probably mapped). A mapped vRS isn't going to "Drive off" from a DSG GTI, even if it is mapped. They are a good 100kgs heavier for a start...
My guess is that is would gradually pull away, which is pretty much what has happened.. :wink:
Oh and if it was a diesel, i'm with Nath.. :fighting: :signLOL:
But as carl says, a stage 1 car has 40hp and 70lbft+ extra and it would have been pulling out a huge lead on it.
Ultimately you got beaten by a skoda and should feel ashamed :P :P :P
Come on Sy, a Stage 1 car is quicker than standard yeah, but won't jump into another time zone once the right pedal is pushed.. :signLOL: Especially on a short blast down a slip road..
You need a Stage 2+ KO4 for that.. :laugh: :booty: :signLOL:
-
If it was mapped, it must have been something like bluefin. anything else like REVO/shark etc are much stronger than it. ( i know this is what led me to change software in the first place)
this is what i mean.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fxx202%2Fsimonskerton%2Fs.jpg&hash=0efc1b6e07bcd41d626bff75f615fb13cf425302)
whereas REVO looks more like this
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jkm.org.uk%2Fperformance%2FMisc%2FMisc_Performance_pictures%2FTFSI-images%2F2010update%2Fnew%2520TFSI%2520Graphs%2FK03ST11.gif&hash=02017f22dea2bba5452a9a6555f05f0cb81d2639)
so you can see on the road there would be a huge difference between the two,whilst both would be quicker than stock
-
What you need to do is now rag on some standard cars to make yourself feel better. Like micras. :grin:
-
:grin: :grin:
-
I'd have thought he has some software on there or that your car isn't running as sweet as it could be. I think it takes a very keen driver to be able to make changes as quickly as DSG, coupled with the slight weight advantage he probably shouldn't have been pulling away.
I agree.. The only way a vRS should pull on a DSG GTI (that's tucked up behind it) is if it is modded in some way (ie most probably mapped). A mapped vRS isn't going to "Drive off" from a DSG GTI, even if it is mapped. They are a good 100kgs heavier for a start...
My guess is that is would gradually pull away, which is pretty much what has happened :wink:
a Stage 1 car is quicker than standard yeah, but won't jump into another time zone once the right pedal is pushed.. :signLOL: Especially on a short blast down a slip road..
You need a Stage 2+ KO4 for that.. :laugh: :booty: :signLOL:
How fast do you think a standard GTI is? It has 207lbft versus a decent mapped car with 260+ lb/ft. The vRS will pull away a fair bit quicker than you think. DSG only helps up to 60mph due to how quick the gear changes come. Once going it isn't that much of an advantage (I'm talking standard cars here not mapped or anything else)
Their is a difference of 68kg between a vRS and GTI DSG. In favour of the golf.
However the Octavia has a better Drag Coefficient hence the Golf gets to 62mph quicker (6.9 secs vs 7.2) but the vRS has a better top speed (149mph vs 145mph)
You need to remember reaction times aswell. If you have a fairly quick car you can get the jump on a lot of cars quite easily.
Another way to look at it is this. It would be the same as a rolling start as both cars were prob doing around 30mph before booting it on the slip. The Octavia will pull away slightly (despite the DSG) as it's on the power earlier and once getting to 60mph + cuts a better line through the air. The Golf would then have had to deal with all the turbulent air at the back of the Octavia and having the drag coefficient of a house brick this wouldn't have done it any favours.I've no doubt if the Golf had been in front then the situation would have been reversed.
When I was stage 1 only I could pull away quite easily from my mates Focus ST (which is quicker in a straight line than a standard GTI DSG) so I think if the Octavia in this instance was mapped. Then it was a crap map, the driver was crap or he just wasn't trying that hard.
-
Wow, this has certainly generated some debate (as suspected, hence why I posted)...
I've driven some powerful cars in my time and believe my golf to be running about 200bhp...i.e. it feels about 200bhp quick (fast, but could be faster :smiley:), hence why I was a little disconcerted by the Skoda...I think my car is running ok as far as I know, although I genuinely believe (drag co-efficients / reaction times aside) that the Skoda I was playing with was mapped...he was pulling away, no question, and DSG or no DSG I wouldn't have caught him...
Ok, so my course of action for a start is a stage 1 Superchips remap and a decent panel filter (all suggestions welcome!!)...
-
Do it^^^ :signLOL:
Bluefin and panel filter is a relatively cheaper way of beating a skoda :laugh:
He would need stage 2 to match you, with your quicker shifting dsg.
-
^^^
Or just learn to drive properly :innocent: :evilgrin:
-
^^^
Or just learn to drive properly :innocent: :evilgrin:
+1 :laugh:
@ RustyGTI - Have you inspectyed your dump valve, or are your running the revision D piston type already, could be you have torn diaphram type valve and have not noticed.
-
you have a k03 so i wouldnt bother with the bluefin personally. Id go with shark performance and their STS handset. Slightly more expensive (although there is a group buy on at them moment saving a fair mount of money)
Quite a few guys on briskoda, here and SCN have found the k03 TFSI bluefin maps to be lacking in a few areas. In all fairness my stage 1 was really smooth and practically oem in delivery, just grossly underpar compared to the competition. But the problems seem to arise when you go bluefin stage 2 and 2+.
I know of at least 5 guys now who have had erratic power delievery and power characteristics on stage 2 bluefin, myself being one of them. I changed to shark performance and it really was a huge difference in drivability, smoothness and power.
Timmy on here made 251Hp with bluefin stage 2+ even with them tweaking the map to try and sort it out, he changed to shark just after me and made 274hp on the same rollers and mods.
f you had a ed30 id have said yeah bluefin was fine as it seems to work well. Also echoing what the guys have said, check you diverter valve. that can esult in a loss of performance
-
I'm with Sy on this.. I would give SC BF a miss and go for Shark or Revo a go..
-
The other types of 'map' are certainly there for consideration - how would I check the DV? Is it something easy to do that I can check myself, or is it a dealer job? - my car is under extended warranty still which is a plus...
Thanks
Russ
you have a k03 so i wouldnt bother with the bluefin personally. Id go with shark performance and their STS handset. Slightly more expensive (although there is a group buy on at them moment saving a fair mount of money)
Quite a few guys on briskoda, here and SCN have found the k03 TFSI bluefin maps to be lacking in a few areas. In all fairness my stage 1 was really smooth and practically oem in delivery, just grossly underpar compared to the competition. But the problems seem to arise when you go bluefin stage 2 and 2+.
I know of at least 5 guys now who have had erratic power delievery and power characteristics on stage 2 bluefin, myself being one of them. I changed to shark performance and it really was a huge difference in drivability, smoothness and power.
Timmy on here made 251Hp with bluefin stage 2+ even with them tweaking the map to try and sort it out, he changed to shark just after me and made 274hp on the same rollers and mods.
f you had a ed30 id have said yeah bluefin was fine as it seems to work well. Also echoing what the guys have said, check you diverter valve. that can esult in a loss of performance
-
...it was actually the Skoda driver who undertook someone on the slip road just before joining the motorway causing them to swerve... :surprised:, shocking bit of driving... :stupid: :smiley:
^^^
Or just learn to drive properly :innocent: :evilgrin:
-
...it was actually the Skoda driver who undertook someone on the slip road just before joining the motorway causing them to swerve... :surprised:, shocking bit of driving... :stupid: :smiley:
^^^
Or just learn to drive properly :innocent: :evilgrin:
I'm just teasing mate :P
To check the DV is pretty straight forwards if your handy with a spanner. Just remove the under tray, It's on the rear of the engine on the drivers side. Held in by either 3 x 5mm or 3 x T30 bolts. Just undo those, remove the electrical connector and Roberts your mother's brother.
For a bit of clarity have a look in this thread. It's for a DV relocation but it will show you were it is for you to check :happy2:
http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,17736.0.html
-
I'm just teasing mate :P
To check the DV is pretty straight forwards if your handy with a spanner. Just remove the under tray, It's on the rear of the engine on the drivers side. Held in by either 3 x 5mm or 3 x T30 bolts. Just undo those, remove the electrical connector and Roberts your mother's brother.
Unless you're a fat boy!!
Having recently changed my DV to the revision 'D' I can confirm that if it is damaged/split it will drastically effect the performance. when I get the chance I will post an image of the old type removed from my car.......not a pretty site!!
-
Unless you're a fat boy!!
Lose weight then. I can't do everything for you :booty:
-
Lose weight then. I can't do everything for you :booty:
Just remember I have seen your facebook pictures............. :sick:
-
Your point being???? :P
I'm not the one who can't get under my car when it's jacked up :booty:
-
Your point being???? :P
I'm not the one who can't get under my car when it's jacked up :booty:
You are also slightly overweight?!?!?! :wink:
I blame the inferior tools and acute angle of the drive way! :innocent:
-
Nice one, thanks :happy2:
What DV valve should I replace it with if it does turn out to be knackered?
Can you also recommend what spark plugs / HT leads you guys run?
Cheers
Russ
...it was actually the Skoda driver who undertook someone on the slip road just before joining the motorway causing them to swerve... :surprised:, shocking bit of driving... :stupid: :smiley:
^^^
Or just learn to drive properly :innocent: :evilgrin:
I'm just teasing mate :P
To check the DV is pretty straight forwards if your handy with a spanner. Just remove the under tray, It's on the rear of the engine on the drivers side. Held in by either 3 x 5mm or 3 x T30 bolts. Just undo those, remove the electrical connector and Roberts your mother's brother.
For a bit of clarity have a look in this thread. It's for a DV relocation but it will show you were it is for you to check :happy2:
http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,17736.0.html
-
If the DV valve is at fault would the drop off in performance be significant? As I must admit it doesn't feel that slow...
^^^
Or just learn to drive properly :innocent: :evilgrin:
+1 :laugh:
@ RustyGTI - Have you inspectyed your dump valve, or are your running the revision D piston type already, could be you have torn diaphram type valve and have not noticed.
-
Nice one, thanks :happy2:
What DV valve should I replace it with if it does turn out to be knackered?
Can you also recommend what spark plugs / HT leads you guys run?
Cheers
Russ
This is the latest revision D type, the part number is on the side, cost around 52 quid from the dealers. :happy2:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flh3.ggpht.com%2F_-x267klfZGE%2FSieweagSmYI%2FAAAAAAAAAeM%2F1a7zvcj7RbQ%2FDSC_9477.JPG&hash=8c37f5f8d555e916c90a307d8cdd5dfc10bc4668)
Regarding performance, mine still felt quick but I had noticed some flat spots, Carl logged the results a few weeks back and the boost was almost half expected figures. Since changing the DV the car is awesome again, it does have a stage 1 and EVOMs though.
Edit: have a read of my thread on the Briskoda site, image of the knackered DV in post #12. You will see that mine was completely split, but afaik even a pin prick in the diaghram will affect peformance.
http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/187114-flat-spot/page__p__2237238#entry2237238
-
Brilliant, thanks!! See what you mean about the split, that is well and truly knackered!!
Thanks for the part number and picture...the revised 'D' type is an option, do forge also do a version and is it worth just sticking one of those on anyway?
Nice one, thanks :happy2:
What DV valve should I replace it with if it does turn out to be knackered?
Can you also recommend what spark plugs / HT leads you guys run?
Cheers
Russ
This is the latest revision D type, the part number is on the side, cost around 52 quid from the dealers. :happy2:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flh3.ggpht.com%2F_-x267klfZGE%2FSieweagSmYI%2FAAAAAAAAAeM%2F1a7zvcj7RbQ%2FDSC_9477.JPG&hash=8c37f5f8d555e916c90a307d8cdd5dfc10bc4668)
Regarding performance, mine still felt quick but I had noticed some flat spots, Carl logged the results a few weeks back and the boost was almost half expected figures. Since changing the DV the car is awesome again, it does have a stage 1 and EVOMs though.
Edit: have a read of my thread on the Briskoda site, image of the knackered DV in post #12. You will see that mine was completely split, but afaik even a pin prick in the diaghram will affect peformance.
http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/187114-flat-spot/page__p__2237238#entry2237238
-
Don't bother with the forge. Just stick the OEM one on.
I have an OEM one on my car and it's fine :happy2:
-
...it was actually the Skoda driver who undertook someone on the slip road just before joining the motorway causing them to swerve... :surprised:, shocking bit of driving... :stupid: :smiley:
^^^
Or just learn to drive properly :innocent: :evilgrin:
I'm just teasing mate :P
To check the DV is pretty straight forwards if your handy with a spanner. Just remove the under tray, It's on the rear of the engine on the drivers side. Held in by either 3 x 5mm or 3 x T30 bolts. Just undo those, remove the electrical connector and Roberts your mother's brother.
For a bit of clarity have a look in this thread. It's for a DV relocation but it will show you were it is for you to check :happy2:
http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,17736.0.html
The DV isn't covered by a rear engine tray on the GTI Carl its easily accessible if you get underneath with the car jacked up, you will also want to remove the off-side (drivers side) wheel as that allows you to get a second hand in to support your tool :grin: There is also a 4th hex bolt by the DV which is the same size but not related if you remove a bolt with a washer then screw it back in.
If the Octavia has a larger engine cover that could be part of the reason it cuts a cleaner whole in the air. (I know that the non hatch also helps) :happy2:
-
Don't bother with the forge. Just stick the OEM one on.
I have an OEM one on my car and it's fine :happy2:
I'm running the D with my KO4 and the OEM works perfect.