MK5 Golf GTI
General => Random Chat => Topic started by: Rich on February 28, 2011, 06:23:26 pm
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Well,
I was listening on Radio 4 about the violence in Libya by the leader Gaddafi (who probably will step down) and Mubarak in Egypt (who has now stepped down)
Well, the worrying news is that the new Arab leaders who'll retake power over Gaddafi in Libya AND Mubarak in Egypt are not pro-west which means they are less likely to do deals with the West in regards to Oil (which a vast %tage of our Oil comes from Arab countries)
Obviously this means Oil prices will go up through the roof ...
Thats not the biggest worry.... Egypt and Libya will seek Human Rights to come into Europe like on par with other countries in the European Union and god knows what this will do to Europe especially UK who everyone seems to want to come to.... can't see why :confused: (
What are your thoughts, i would like to hear what others have heard in regards to consequences of the new Arab leaders who are not Pro-West... :scared:
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I don't think that the majority of the Arab world is as anti The West as some folks would make out and you'll probably find that it's the Israeli's who like to make everyone think that the Arabs are anti-West. Bottom line: Oil rich Arabs still need to sell their oil.
International diplomacy will sort it out and it was inevitable that the day would come soon for Gaddafi to go. He still thinks he's Goddafi but he's just daft - Mad as a hatter! Potentially very dangerous but his people are deserting him in droves, so it's different from Iraq's Saddam Hussein.
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Propaganda, like RR says, oil still needs to be sold...
Unless of course there's weapons of mass destruction that need to be found by bombing the sh1t outta them, destroying the infrastructure to allow the USA to grab the oil and Europe to rake it in by rebuilding the country back up :innocent:
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Propaganda, like RR says, oil still needs to be sold...
Unless of course there's weapons of mass destruction that need to be found by bombing the sh1t outta them, destroying the infrastructure to allow the USA to grab the oil and Europe to rake it in by rebuilding the country back up :innocent:
Problem with Iraq that the US found is that it became rather hard to grab the oil with a destroyed infrastructure...
In other news, @ the OP (and this is probably me deliberately trolling, and I know you probably didn't imply this, but hey), thank you for thinking of the oil and supporting brutal dictators suppressing their own people and not the democratic wishes of the oppressed people.
/obvious troll is obvious?
//please feel free to ignore me.
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^^^ nail head.
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^^^ nail head.
hammer cock! :wink:
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In other news, @ the OP (and this is probably me deliberately trolling, and I know you probably didn't imply this, but hey), thank you for thinking of the oil and supporting brutal dictators suppressing their own people and not the democratic wishes of the oppressed people.
....I doubt if the OP Rich meant it in a way which is entirely unsympathetic to those people who are oppressed, but I totally agree with you cmdrfire: It's about time that a truer democracy ruled in Libya. Gaddafi has had his day, praise be to God and to Allah. These matters are always complex and oil is the lube.
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@ cmdrfire:
I forgot to ask you, Neo, whether you got around to seeing "The Promise". Last in the series was last night (Sunday) and it was very powerful indeed - Very well rounded and objective but I couldn't help myself continuing to favour the Palestinians as I do. The Jews have done themselves no favours throughout most of their history. I've never forgiven that family for not allowing me to continue to be the boyfriend of their extremely attractive Jewish daughter just because I wasn't one of them.
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I've never forgiven that family for not allowing me to continue to be the boyfriend of their extremely attractive Jewish daughter just because I wasn't one of them.
it wasnt the religion thing RR, they just heard through the grapevine about you being a deviant in the VAG babes thread :P :wink:
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I've never forgiven that family for not allowing me to continue to be the boyfriend of their extremely attractive Jewish daughter just because I wasn't one of them.
it wasnt the religion thing RR, they just heard through the grapevine about you being a deviant in the VAG babes thread :P :wink:
:signLOL: :laugh:
Even though it was over 30 years ago my reputation must have preceded me :grin:
How I wish I knew then what I know now!
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Sad, sad, sad. :ashamed:
We have to realize that the people in islamic countries don't want
''help'' from western countries. And I'm sure they don't need any
help from us.
They have to do their revolution by themselves. And we should
just watch it and be happy with them.
Furthermore we shouldn't expect a democrathy in a western way.
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I'd rather not 'watch' thousands of people die, should we turn a blind eye to it then?
People being burned and buried alive?
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but the west cant and will not stay out of it as we rely so much on the middle east for the oil.
Until we have the technology to drill in the deep sea easily, safely and consistently we will have to intervene for our own 'well being' for want of a better phrase.
Its wrong but thats how it is. There needs to be military action though to remove gaddafi and have him tried for war crimes. I cant see him stepping down, hes an extremist who thinks he is in the right
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I don' want Gaddafi sitting in Den Haag and having an audience for
his ugly propaganda.
His own people will hang him, that's much faster than catching him.
Making war is no solution. I don't want people in libya dieing as well.
But these people don't want us help them - that's the situation.
And don't help somebody who does not want you to help !!
Libya ist another thing than Kosovo where we have waited too long,
of course !!!
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Bruce you generalise quite alot there, innocence need help of which there are and will be and won't be able to ask for it
'movements' won't need help or ask for it as they have a cause to effect or defend
It's those caught up in the middle that western societies won't allow to become victims of circumstance
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im with you on the no war, but the only way he will release his strangle hold is when forced to do it. Doesnt matter who removes him as long as its done, and then libya can start the reconstruction of democracy, because until then its the innocent bystanders that get punished.
With any luck his generals will turn on him like most of his followers then a quick military coo and its over. If it doesnt, the UN will no doubt have to step in
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Janner,
oh yes, it does matter who kills him !! :wink:
Europe should not make 'the american mistake' and intervent in
those conflicts. Before meddling there you should exacly know
what the people want.
These classic mistakes produce hate against the western world.
No, I try not to generalise.
:drinking:
No, democracy sadly isn't the perfect fit for all of these countries.
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@ bruce no offence mate but you don't half talk some sh1t, are you up to speed on your euro/USA history?
From say.... 1911 onwards?
:chicken:
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The Americans will make sure he goes, it's quite obvious they are hoping this domino effect will find it's way to the big fella Iran. Me thinks they will let it drag out for a few more weeks yet, to keep the facebook horror stories going. :smiley:
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The uprisings in the Middle East are long overdue. Whether they will see a long term benefit for the people who live there is another matter.
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nostrodamus predicted it as well :surprised:
Also its the end of the world next year when the mayan calender ends
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You just don't know who to trust, so much deceit. I tend never to believe what sky news and the newspapers say, after all they are out their to sell a story and create propaganda.
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I think its going to be very good or very bad..........
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I think its going to be very good or very bad..........
...damn you and your western diplomatic view :signLOL:
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nostrodamus predicted it as well :surprised:
Also its the end of the world next year when the mayan calender ends
....Then I better order that option loaded RS3 afterall! :grin:
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nostrodamus predicted it as well :surprised:
Also its the end of the world next year when the mayan calender ends
....Then I better order that option loaded RS3 afterall! :grin:
pick me up an R8 spyder while youre in there too dude :happy2:
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I think its going to be very good or very bad..........
....Whichever way it goes, I hope it happens quickly.
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nostrodamus predicted it as well :surprised:
Also its the end of the world next year when the mayan calender ends
....Then I better order that option loaded RS3 afterall! :grin:
pick me up an R8 spyder while youre in there too dude :happy2:
....No prob. Will a white one with red leather do ya?
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im with you on the no war, but the only way he will release his strangle hold is when forced to do it. Doesnt matter who removes him as long as its done, and then libya can start the reconstruction of democracy, because until then its the innocent bystanders that get punished.
With any luck his generals will turn on him like most of his followers then a quick military coo and its over. If it doesnt, the UN will no doubt have to step in
.... :happy2: I'm with you on that.
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nostrodamus predicted it as well :surprised:
Also its the end of the world next year when the mayan calender ends
....Then I better order that option loaded RS3 afterall! :grin:
pick me up an R8 spyder while youre in there too dude :happy2:
....No prob. Will a white one with red leather do ya?
pearl "morello cherry" metallic with magnolia hide please :party:
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The Americans will make sure he goes, it's quite obvious they are hoping this domino effect will find it's way to the big fella Iran. Me thinks they will let it drag out for a few more weeks yet, to keep the facebook horror stories going. :smiley:
....I hope that the solution won't involve the Americans too much, especially if military force is needed - It can only add fuel onto the fire between the West and the world of Islam.
Iran is a far more volatile can of worms - More like a can of spitting cobras!
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nostrodamus predicted it as well :surprised:
Also its the end of the world next year when the mayan calender ends
....Then I better order that option loaded RS3 afterall! :grin:
pick me up an R8 spyder while youre in there too dude :happy2:
....No prob. Will a white one with red leather do ya?
pearl "morello cherry" metallic with magnolia hide please :party:
....VC, you're a man of taste - Consider it done! [I wish!]
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Western intervention in Libya is a tricky one. On the one hand, many innocent people are going to die at Gaddafi's hands. On the other, Western influence will allow Gaddafi to proclaim that he's morally right because the uprisings are supported by foreigners. On top of that, let's remember that it was largely Western (read: European) influence that created all of these countries in the first place, creating them out of tribal desert areas with no defined borders*, and then allowed dictatorships to flourish because 1) it kept them uppity Arabs under control and 2) a pet dictator who was free with the oil was de rigueur at the time.
Tunisia/Morocco/Algeria had the French influence, Libya was controlled by the Spanish, and Egypt by the British.
*Drawing lines in the sand, as it were.
The uprisings in the Middle East are long overdue. Whether they will see a long term benefit for the people who live there is another matter.
This is very true, and it's about time the people have a chance to enjoy democracy as we have in the West - the Egyptians in particular are feeling their first freedom for about 5,000 years. Let's hope that there is not going to be an installation of a further 'round of dictatorships, but I have a feeling that now the people have found their voice that they will not allow it.
@ cmdrfire:
I forgot to ask you, Neo, whether you got around to seeing "The Promise". Last in the series was last night (Sunday) and it was very powerful indeed - Very well rounded and objective but I couldn't help myself continuing to favour the Palestinians as I do. The Jews have done themselves no favours throughout most of their history. I've never forgiven that family for not allowing me to continue to be the boyfriend of their extremely attractive Jewish daughter just because I wasn't one of them.
No, I haven't yet Rob - between illness, work, and then my trip to see the Shuttle (see photos thread!) I never got a chance to. I'll try to make time this week.
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Western intervention in Libya is a tricky one. On the one hand, many innocent people are going to die at Gaddafi's hands. On the other, Western influence will allow Gaddafi to proclaim that he's morally right because the uprisings are supported by foreigners. On top of that, let's remember that it was largely Western (read: European) influence that created all of these countries in the first place, creating them out of tribal desert areas with no defined borders*, and then allowed dictatorships to flourish because 1) it kept them uppity Arabs under control and 2) a pet dictator who was free with the oil was de rigueur at the time.
Tunisia/Morocco/Algeria had the French influence, Libya was controlled by the Spanish, and Egypt by the British.
*Drawing lines in the sand, as it were.
....Talking about Western colonial powers drawing lines in the sand, what about their stupidity and ignorance in drawing their dividing lines vertically instead of horizontally all along the Ivory Coast of Africa? It was of course natural for the indigenous tribal peoples to inhabit horizontally (latitude) and dividing it vertically cut right across all the different strata of tribes, many of whom were traditional enemies. Hence some of the ongoing problems of conflict.
No, I haven't yet Rob - between illness, work, and then my trip to see the Shuttle (see photos thread!) I never got a chance to. I'll try to make time this week.
....I think you'd be looking at easily 6 hours of TV! I still think you might enjoy it though.
I'm off to check out your pics of the Shuttle now. Glad you feeling better :happy2: [Chris says he has emailed the LED tails project stuff]
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You're right about the vertical lines, that hadn't occurred to me before.
I've got that email from Chris, will post more in the other thread about it probably tomorrow :happy2: