MK5 Golf GTI

All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: donovan2123 on March 17, 2011, 09:28:30 am

Title: Advice needed regarding CAI
Post by: donovan2123 on March 17, 2011, 09:28:30 am
Hi, I own vrs 2.0t and need some advice im currently running stage 1 map which seems good. I did a few logs and it seems that car is overfuelling abit high end of rev range and engine is pulling timing back because of this. I considered a fuel pump but after logs it was evident this was not need and if anything a CAI is needed to allow map to perform at best. So my question to you is what kit should I get to give more flow all round bearing in mind price as forge is very expensive to me. My flow maf was peak 190g/s. Which I been told is prob equivelant to around 230-235bhp max using calculation, MAF value, divided by 0.81= the rough Hp @ any point.
Title: Re: Advice needed regarding CAI
Post by: edd666999 on March 17, 2011, 09:29:08 am
who's map are you running?
Title: Re: Advice needed regarding CAI
Post by: donovan2123 on March 17, 2011, 09:36:55 am
Prefer not to say  :happy2:
Title: Re: Advice needed regarding CAI
Post by: vRS_Pagey on March 17, 2011, 09:54:27 am
Ah, a fellow briskodian if I'm not mistaken?

I have the Evoms intake and am more than happy with it, and as luck would have it,  there was one for sale on this very site. :happy2:
Title: Re: Advice needed regarding CAI
Post by: edd666999 on March 17, 2011, 10:07:51 am
Stage 1 is generally used on a standard car, the car shouldn't over fuel? Whats the logs like without the map (assuming you can take the map off)
Title: Re: Advice needed regarding CAI
Post by: martziniuk on March 17, 2011, 10:12:59 am
Agreed stage 1 shouldn't require bolt on mods.
What figures are you getting regarding rich running at high RPM?
Title: Re: Advice needed regarding CAI
Post by: donovan2123 on March 17, 2011, 10:37:57 am
Hi dont have figures from the lamba log with me at moment as Im at work. But the timing pull is like -13 in some cases
Title: Re: Advice needed regarding CAI
Post by: martziniuk on March 17, 2011, 12:36:22 pm
timing pull is like -13 in some cases
  :surprised: quite bad then!
Title: Re: Advice needed regarding CAI
Post by: donovan2123 on March 17, 2011, 07:18:25 pm
IS there anyo way i can upload log files?
Title: Re: Advice needed regarding CAI
Post by: donovan2123 on March 17, 2011, 07:21:23 pm
http://www.sendspace.com/file/2hgecg (http://www.sendspace.com/file/2hgecg)

http://www.sendspace.com/file/sp4uqu (http://www.sendspace.com/file/sp4uqu)
Title: Re: Advice needed regarding CAI
Post by: donovan2123 on March 17, 2011, 07:22:33 pm
Links to logs i took for my car. Can you guys kindly download and let me know what you think
Title: Re: Advice needed regarding CAI
Post by: PDT on March 17, 2011, 07:23:06 pm
Just copy and paste a screenshot.

Running rich is unlikely to cause timing pull, running lean is worse. Was the AFR and ign pull datalogged or at least dyno tested when the map was installed? Any faults showing up?

This sounds very familiar to a car I tested recently with a stg1 map that was a diy install with a handheld device, wonder if its from the same tuner? (that car was an audi tt 200hp tfsi)
Title: Re: Advice needed regarding CAI
Post by: martziniuk on March 17, 2011, 07:31:24 pm
Where are AFR logs?
Quite a lot of boost there.
Title: Re: Advice needed regarding CAI
Post by: donovan2123 on March 17, 2011, 07:41:56 pm
I have logged AFR. Which blocks are they ? Il do that over the weekend.
Title: Re: Advice needed regarding CAI
Post by: donovan2123 on March 17, 2011, 07:44:04 pm
One thing i will say is i was going through the service history and i have to say i cant see any information to say the air filter has ever been changed? I have not only the service book but reciepts for parts and labour non of which show air filter ever being changed.
Title: Re: Advice needed regarding CAI
Post by: Hurdy on March 17, 2011, 07:46:13 pm
Try fitting a Pipercross filter first. Not too expensive and would show if you are heading in the right direction if the timing pull reduces significantly. If it does reduce it then you can think about a CAI afterwards. :happy2:
Title: Re: Advice needed regarding CAI
Post by: martziniuk on March 17, 2011, 07:52:01 pm
AFR is Block 031.
If it was serviced and iirc it is every 40k for air filter, service history air filter box should be ticked.
Title: Re: Advice needed regarding CAI
Post by: donovan2123 on March 17, 2011, 08:03:49 pm
Yes there is no tick against the air filter in service book nor in service history invoices and bare in mind car is on 102k. Any more advice. I dont wana go down pipercross filter if it makes no difference lol!
Title: Re: Advice needed regarding CAI
Post by: martziniuk on March 17, 2011, 08:17:00 pm
My personal opinion is you are running too much boost for too long for a stage 1 map, your car is getting too hot hence when you stop booting it briefly then boot it again you get more timing pull.
A down pipe and high flow cat/decat would help greatly but an intake would help a little too. I don't like the looks of the map personally, I made a lot higher MAF figures on stage 1 with much less boost and a lot earlier in the rev range.

Would be good to see AFR.
Title: Re: Advice needed regarding CAI
Post by: Hurdy on March 17, 2011, 08:23:17 pm
Yes there is no tick against the air filter in service book nor in service history invoices and bare in mind car is on 102k. Any more advice. I dont wana go down pipercross filter if it makes no difference lol!

Surely for £35 it is worth looking at to aid the diagnosis?

After all you are talking about buying a full CAI for £200+ without even knowing if that would help!

http://www.potn.co.uk/volkswagen-golf-mk5-20-fsi-turbo-112004--pipercross-panel-filter-pp1624_p1648687.htm

Personally I'd go back to the company who sold you the map and ask them why you are getting -13 timing pull. Anything over 5 is too much! :happy2:
Title: Re: Advice needed regarding CAI
Post by: donovan2123 on March 17, 2011, 08:30:15 pm
Thanks lads will see how car is after service and will also log AFR and see how this is.
Title: Re: Advice needed regarding CAI
Post by: PDT on March 17, 2011, 08:43:25 pm
Out of interest was this map a:

1.Dyno tuned and tested map
2.Map constructed by trial and error, on road datalogging
3.Diy handheld plug in and hope for the best affair.
4.Quick flash over obd by the tuner with no datalogging and/or testing 
Title: Re: Advice needed regarding CAI
Post by: donovan2123 on March 17, 2011, 08:47:31 pm
4.Quick flash over obd by the tuner with no datalogging and/or testing 
Title: Re: Advice needed regarding CAI
Post by: donovan2123 on March 17, 2011, 08:51:37 pm
I can get them to adjust file on dyno if need be its just finding time to get to them and get it done properly.
Title: Re: Advice needed regarding CAI
Post by: Janner_Sy on March 17, 2011, 08:53:57 pm
Ah hello there

nowt to add really to this or the replies on briskoda.  

why wont you name the tuner!!  Most guys on here wouldnt touch a guy who doesnt datalog his maps anyway.  Plus it could save someone else going and getting a carp remap from them and having the same issues as you.

if they adjust it, you dont need a dyno, they can log it on the road and get the same results.  They just need to know what they are doing.  Its why id only go with a VAG specialist, not an ebay trained remapper
Title: Re: Advice needed regarding CAI
Post by: PDT on March 17, 2011, 08:56:14 pm
4.Quick flash over obd by the tuner with no datalogging and/or testing 


Booyakasha. Knew it would be 3 or 4 looking at those logs.
Title: Re: Advice needed regarding CAI
Post by: Janner_Sy on March 17, 2011, 08:57:36 pm
4.Quick flash over obd by the tuner with no datalogging and/or testing 


Booyakasha. Knew it would be 3 or 4 looking at those logs.

i said the same thing in PM on briskoda.
Title: Re: Advice needed regarding CAI
Post by: donovan2123 on March 17, 2011, 09:01:45 pm
Mainly because there a friend hence not naming them. Map was a freebe anyways if im honest. Il get them to take a look at it. Thanks
Title: Re: Advice needed regarding CAI
Post by: PDT on March 17, 2011, 11:23:55 pm
shame we dont have a load percentage logged against the AFR's really, but it does look like a 3/4th gear WOT run, in which case you are seeing AFR's of 10.4-10.8 which is a touch rich, but not dangerously rich. A lot of Jap stuff run this ratio as standard!

Doesnt look like an overy bad map, not that you can tell the quality of a map by the logs, the log data is just a by product. Suprised you aren't getting limp mode with that timing pull though! intake temsp are fine, the cause of the timing pull needs to be investigated, possibly a touch too much boost as the actual just cant match the requested and take a fair amount of timing out and tune using MBT (minimum best timing) method on a dyno to get the best results.  
Title: Re: Advice needed regarding CAI
Post by: donovan2123 on March 18, 2011, 10:01:39 am
Thanks mate. So you thinking it is the boost which may be causing timing pull?
Title: Re: Advice needed regarding CAI
Post by: PDT on March 18, 2011, 12:27:47 pm
What fuel are you using?? If the map was for 98+ ron and tuned aggressively then a 95ron fuel could cause these issues.
Title: Re: Advice needed regarding CAI
Post by: donovan2123 on March 19, 2011, 04:25:35 pm
Well today i did a service and brake pads all round. This is how filter looked:

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi162.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ft253%2Fdonovan2123%2F2011-03-19124537.jpg&hash=c142fce75d2dc35c9886830c3032f2d4058e6171)

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi162.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ft253%2Fdonovan2123%2F2011-03-19124549.jpg&hash=7b26ba010a857875b580fb99546c0a14750b128b)
Title: Re: Advice needed regarding CAI
Post by: PDT on March 19, 2011, 04:54:54 pm
What fuel are you using?? If the map was for 98+ ron and tuned aggressively then a 95ron fuel could cause these issues.
Title: Re: Advice needed regarding CAI
Post by: donovan2123 on March 19, 2011, 05:20:22 pm
99momentum
Title: Re: Advice needed regarding CAI
Post by: PDT on March 19, 2011, 06:27:29 pm
Looking at your map now mate :happy2:
Title: Re: Advice needed regarding CAI
Post by: donovan2123 on March 19, 2011, 07:15:02 pm
 :happy2: