MK5 Golf GTI
General => Random Chat => Topic started by: Janner_Sy on March 17, 2011, 10:30:30 pm
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The 1.4 TSI (180) engine is pretty new now, but the manufacturers are starting to produce maps now. REVO as normal being the most publicised.
thought id post the results up. as i know there are a couple on here running the 1.4TSI be it the 140/160/170 or 180ps versions. Fundementally identical engines with the same output once tuned as the ECU maps are the only differing factor.
Heres REVOs published stage 1
Stage 1 = predicted 210-225hp
http://www.revotechnik.com/index.php?mod=show_news&id_nws=59 (http://"http://www.revotechnik.com/index.php?mod=show_news&id_nws=59")
stage 2 = predicted 218hp-233Hp
http://www.revotechnik.com/index.php?mod=show_news&id_nws=60 (http://"http://www.revotechnik.com/index.php?mod=show_news&id_nws=60")
When myself and many other spoke to REVO they said they had made 246hp repeatedly but maybe they deemed 246hp to be to much!!
Heres stage 1(with an ITG maxogen intake iirc)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.revotechnik.com%2Fresources%2Fuploads%2Fnews%2F1_4TSi_Power11-030935.jpg&hash=cb9dbebc0992884bd8a1a7fbb1662e86c52deeb8)(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.revotechnik.com%2Fresources%2Fuploads%2Fnews%2F1_4TSi_Torque11-030935.jpg&hash=d8f8d02e1f3956d5dfa226f573aece12dc02334f)
Heres stage 2
I think that torque curve/plateau is pretty impressive. No surge, no drop off just pretty much constant throughout
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi339.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fn456%2FMk2_Cupra%2FOther%2520cupras%2FREVOstage2.jpg&hash=e09fabf9139672954963f781e48bfb175287416b)
Heres a stage 1 1.4TSI(150) Ibiza Fr. This should be identical to the TSI(180) when mapped. Add the intake and theres an easy 215hp there i think. Why buy the cupra!!
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fa6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net%2Fhphotos-ak-snc6%2F189867_192858844088229_150370161670431_462081_1610920_n.jpg&hash=212e4cc502af2eee8998c9b23353ad3360ddc034)
i think 236hp in a 1240kg will be very nnice indeed. And considering the stage 1 cars manage 13.5 secondf 1/4 miles at the pod with more than a few of them getting low 5 second 0-60's @ GTI international i think stage 2 could be pretty impressive. Maybe even sub 13 seconds with some weight loss action
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just had mine on the rolling road 180ps =177hp and my car made 176.5hp. Funny that, REVOs Fabia made 194hp stock :grin: so their map is actially making about 204hp and not 228hp :mad:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fxx202%2Fsimonskerton%2Fimg002-1.jpg&hash=f51389c829bd8cae66767520002d79a6bcc64a48)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fxx202%2Fsimonskerton%2Fimg003-1.jpg&hash=8c7a249654f8f0c11ab85368f53326113994e41d)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fxx202%2Fsimonskerton%2Fimg001-1.jpg&hash=97bf7daf68701682aa15339735c4d3e437521995)
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i think 236hp in a 1240kg will be very nnice indeed. And considering the stage 1 cars manage 13.5 secondf 1/4 miles at the pod with more than a few of them getting low 5 second 0-60's @ GTI international i think stage 2 could be pretty impressive. Maybe even sub 13 seconds with some weight loss action
Not seen a Stage 1 car do a 13.5 Sy? :confused: This is the quickest one i've seen and as you can see, it's far from just Stage 1..
uprated pads, Torque Technique custom exhaust , custom Green cotton air filter, rear seats removed, front seats, OMP, 4 point belts OMP, intercooler water spray system, REVO 220bhp remap, Team Dynamics Prorace 1.2 alloys and Toyo 888 tyres, KW V3 coilovers
Not taking anything away from them, as a 13.4 is pretty awesome for a 1.4. But I would be suprised to see one do a 12 sec 1/4 without a lot more mods/power.. They jump off the line though and with them being lowish power and light weight, can use 1st gear (unlike Stage 2+ KO4's :sad1:)..
just had mine on the rolling road 180ps =177hp and my car made 176.5hp. Funny that, REVOs Fabia made 194hp stock :grin: so their map is actially making about 204hp and not 228hp :mad:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fxx202%2Fsimonskerton%2Fimg002.jpg&hash=4fae0b1f16a1a3dbb727670df4ac58f395145eb9)
You got yours then mate? :smiley:
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i think 236hp in a 1240kg will be very nnice indeed. And considering the stage 1 cars manage 13.5 secondf 1/4 miles at the pod with more than a few of them getting low 5 second 0-60's @ GTI international i think stage 2 could be pretty impressive. Maybe even sub 13 seconds with some weight loss action
Not seen a Stage 1 car do a 13.5 Sy? :confused: This is the quickest one i've seen and as you can see, it's far from just Stage 1..
uprated pads, Torque Technique custom exhaust , custom Green cotton air filter, rear seats removed, front seats, OMP, 4 point belts OMP, intercooler water spray system, REVO 220bhp remap, Team Dynamics Prorace 1.2 alloys and Toyo 888 tyres, KW V3 coilovers
Not taking anything away from them, as a 13.4 is pretty awesome for a 1.4. But I would be suprised to see one do a 12 sec 1/4 without a lot more mods/power.. They jump off the line though and with them being lowish power and light weight, can use 1st gear (unlike Stage 2+ KO4's :sad1:)..
the torque techniks 'custom ' exhaust is just a cat back exhaust so will give F-all gains, panel filters give f-all gains id be pretty certain hes not running 225hp on the standard intake. the only performance gains hes got are from his stage 1 map and the weight loss. the intercooler water spray system isnt internal, it just sprays on the outside of the intercooler, so it'd be nowhere near as effective as a better intercooler or WMI.
There are a couple more guys in Ibizas running below 14 with stage 1 iirc. Dont get so worried we all know yours is quicker :P :grin:
Dont forget pretty much all the guys on here with ed30s were all above 13seconds before they started the weight saving, slick tyres, and LSDs etc etc(oh and their stage 2+ 350hp 2.0T's)
Il be hppy to get below 14seconds. But if the guy in that vid you linked fits stage 2 and an intake and the intercooler he'll easily break into the 12's
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We will know for sure at the pod and inters this year!
susprised you let the sanspeed morons touch your car! Im not sure how they make money either!
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Someone called Innerchild is trying to get 500bhp out of his 1.4!
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Someone called Innerchild is trying to get 500bhp out of his 1.4!
:surprised:
Build thread? :party:
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http://uk-mkivs.net/forums/t/381488.aspx?PageIndex=1
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We will know for sure at the pod and inters this year!
susprised you let the sanspeed morons touch your car! Im not sure how they make money either!
Ive read nothing but positive about sanspeed tbh. They only ran it on the dyno though, nothing else. I watched him set it all up, they run it exactly like JKM, as in no rising it up off the rollers etc like PDT says is correct as it gives around 10-15% higher figures from what i gather. He says he'll only let a car rise up if its running big power.
Dont think the guy in that link is after any more power from what i gather so maybe we'll never know. #
that guys oncream world. why buy a 1.4 to get 500hp. im not even going to bother reading that :laugh:
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At bruntingthorpe in November on the Revo test day on the vbox their Ibiza running Stage 1 did 0-60 in 6.0 seconds two up, I'd have more faith in the vbox than inters timing
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At bruntingthorpe in November on the Revo test day on the vbox their Ibiza running Stage 1 did 0-60 in 6.0 seconds two up, I'd have more faith in the vbox than inters timing
Me too bud.. They are rapid little things to 60mph, mainly due to the fact they aren't running daft power through the front wheels so are able to use 1st gear and get grip. Couple that with DSG and you have little weapon on your hands. Where they will struggle a bit is from 80-90mph onwards being a 1.4. But as Sy says, for little mods and a 1.4, they will scare bigger things off the traffic lights, that's for sure.. :scared:
The same fella off the first vid did some testing with Redline @ Brunters too and managed a 13.1 0-100, which again is very respectable.. :congrats:
And a 141 top speed run...
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Il be hppy to get below 14seconds.
I'd be amazed if you didn't mate tbh.. They seem to be able to break into the 13's quite easily to be fair. I bet they can get cracking 60ft times :laugh:
Will you run it though? :wink:
I tell you what though, running mid to low 13's is one thing, getting into the 12's is another.. :scared: I managed a 13.2 at Stage 1, and it took all the rest of the additions and Stage 2+ to get that extra 3/10ths.. The terminal speeds were massively different though, which is what shows how quick a car is once moving..
Need to have a go in one of these TSI's :wink: Might tap Blade up at the next RR day... :wink:
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Need to have a go in one of these TSI's :wink: Might tap Blade up at the next RR day... :wink:
I was thinking the same thing, Ben :wink:
The Mrs has a 1.4TSI GT but its a manual and only 140bhp so not realy comparible..
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Ive read nothing but positive about sanspeed tbh. They only ran it on the dyno though, nothing else. I watched him set it all up, they run it exactly like JKM, as in no rising it up off the rollers etc like PDT says is correct as it gives around 10-15% higher figures from what i gather. He says he'll only let a car rise up if its running big power.
Allowing the car to pull away from the idler roller is the correct way to use a DynoDynamics dyno, as per their training, manuals and training videos on youtube, but wont get into that now.
As for the car reading a higher % figure, it wont necessarily, you allow it to pull away from the rear roller to ensure the vehicle isnt strapped too tight. If you strap a 100hp car stupidly tight it may make just 80hp (hypothetical figures) tjen as you slowly remove the tension in the straps the power will reach a point where no matter how much you loosen the straps off, the power remains the same, this isnt necessarily the point at which the tyre leaves the rear roller, as long as the contact with the rear roller is only light it will barely affect power. You strap the car with the highest amount of tension that doesn't cause a power loss. The reason for this is to ensure that you dont overtension the straps and give a falsely low power figure.
Strapping higher power cars vs lower power cars is another subject completely......
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The guy @ Sanspeed said id be making a fair few Hp more if it started to run up the rollers. It made stock figures which i was expecting. Unlike alot of the guys on SCN who make 190+hp@ AMD and awesome-GTI.
ill definitely be running at the pod at some point. I wont go ape like you guys do chasing the 12s, although thats no guarantee :innocent: but its going to get smashed on track days.
The Mrs has a 1.4TSI GT but its a manual and only 140bhp so not realy comparible..
but with a remap your car will do this
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fa6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net%2Fhphotos-ak-snc6%2F189867_192858844088229_150370161670431_462081_1610920_n.jpg&hash=212e4cc502af2eee8998c9b23353ad3360ddc034)
thats some impressive gains
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Surely if they ran the dyno and achieved near as possible stock figures, without riding the rollers, they are operating the equipment properly.
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exactly my point. Pretty much every tock car ive seen on RR days @ JKM have been ran the same and made stock figures. Same here @ sanspeed, IAMotersport and Alan Jeffreys (all dyno dynamics that ive used)
but we wont get into the dyno argument again. got told off last time :rolleye: Im happy as long as i have consistency in how the car is ran anyway
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I want a Polo GTi now :drool:
May go test drive one and sneak a Revo flash on it when the salesman isnt looking.
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For a 1.4tsi to dip into 12's it's gonna have to be quicker than a stage 2+ s3 rolling. Can it do that?
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Surely if they ran the dyno and achieved near as possible stock figures, without riding the rollers, they are operating the equipment properly.
Yes, exactly. You dont need to climb up the roller to make accurate power, its when the car is strapped too tightly that power figures are restricted. As long as its not strapped too tight you will make accurate power wether it leaves the rear roller by 0.0001mm or 30mm.
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For a 1.4tsi to dip into 12's it's gonna have to be quicker than a stage 2+ s3 rolling. Can it do that?
that clip above is a stage 1 car with no intake. he might think hes got 225hp but he doesnt, its more like 205hp on the standard intake.
Give him stage 2 remap, an intercooler, and the downpipe or even a decat and he'll have another 30-35hp to lose his final 0.4 seconds to get into the 12s. i reckon he'll manage it if he goes nuts.
Also once the clutch packs are released, REVO are planning to do more aggressive maps as they will be able to manage even more torque.
Ill never manage it in mine,as im not willing to strip the entire interior out. Ill go for a stage 2 with suspension and sticky tyres, but wont go any further. ill be after the 13s
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Should be a nice surprise the first time she puts her foot down :signLOL:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Foo163%2Fneilmelvin%2F3-4.jpg&hash=4281f1a629cfe049bd044eeff83c73cb0c964069)
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does that say TFSI on the back? if so its a totally different engine to the 1.4TSI twincharger
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Anner if stage one only gave him 25hp there is no way he's gonna get another 30 from a cooler and exhaust. If you reckon the stage1 advertised power is inflated then ao will be the stage 2....
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fair point,
but an intake will give gains of around 10hp commonly on pretty much all turbo powered cars. Theres also plenty of before and after graphs from ITG and forge showing the actual gains their intakes gave on the 1.4TSI and thats without a map tweaks. Then going off of the K03 TFSI stage 1/2 outputs id say 20hp gain is a reasonable with a turbo back exhaust and stage 2 map.
REVO reckon power is having to be really reined back due to the stock intercooler being unable to cope with the temps.
Ignoring peak power figures if you consider the car in that clip is only stage 1 with a panel filter for power gains, it'll be substantially quicker with an intake, decat downpipe intercooler and stage 2 remap.
Also the stage 2 Dyno graph from AMD on post#1 is a watered down version of their final stage 2+ map as well.
REVO are making 3 stages of map. stage 1(stock cars as always) stage 2 (the one in the AMD dyno graph) which is for cars with a downpipe as an upgrade, and their doing a 2+ remap (not released yet) for cars with the full setup. The guy whos car was ran on that dyno graph is heading back to revo soon for the update i believe.
From what i gather theres a pretty substantial difference in performance between the stage 1 and 2 maps, from the guys who are running it or tried it.
We'll soon see how they get on, loads of the cupra guys are about to get the full set up fitted. just a hold up as miltek try and meet the demand for the exhausts. it'll be intesting to see how the guy in the clips manages with stage 2. Hes already matched the '360hp' REVO stage 2+ demo Leon (15th on the 1/4 mile league table) despite only having '225hp'
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whats the deal with sanspeed pov?
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crazy how fast these cars are down strip, they are not light at over 1300kg, and even with 250 bhp, thats only 170 bhp per tonne ish, which is not that much, not stage 2 ed 30 quick, am i missing something?
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yes i am, web said they are 1300kg, evo says just over 1200kg :signLOL:
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fabia vRS kerb brochure states the kerb weight is 1243kg i think the ibiza and polo are lighter again.
edit
Couple google searchs reveal a general consensus that the polo is 1184kg :surprised: http://www.volkswagen.co.uk/volkswagen-world/news/220 (http://www.volkswagen.co.uk/volkswagen-world/news/220) so if stage 2 is 236hp that would make them 199hp/ton
edit#2
press release info on the ibiza cupra show a weight of 1174kg. so 236hp = 201hp/ton
and my lard ass fabia would only be 189hp/ton :grin:
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does that say TFSI on the back? if so its a totally different engine to the 1.4TSI twincharger
Audi call the engine a TFSI, but it's still the same engine as the Polo/Ibiza/Fabia. It's just a company brand thing, like they call Haldex 'quattro' on some models.
Audi call the 2.0 petrol engine TFSI too despite it being the same engine as the mk6 GTI/Octy vRS/Leon FR FL
In short currently VW call all their turbo petrols TSI, Audi call theirs TFSI and SEAT and Skoda just do as they're told by Mother in Germany.... :smiley:
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fair point,
but an intake will give gains of around 10hp commonly on pretty much all turbo powered cars. Theres also plenty of before and after graphs from ITG and forge showing the actual gains their intakes gave on the 1.4TSI and thats without a map tweaks. Then going off of the K03 TFSI stage 1/2 outputs id say 20hp gain is a reasonable with a turbo back exhaust and stage 2 map.
REVO reckon power is having to be really reined back due to the stock intercooler being unable to cope with the temps.
Ignoring peak power figures if you consider the car in that clip is only stage 1 with a panel filter for power gains, it'll be substantially quicker with an intake, decat downpipe intercooler and stage 2 remap.
Also the stage 2 Dyno graph from AMD on post#1 is a watered down version of their final stage 2+ map as well.
REVO are making 3 stages of map. stage 1(stock cars as always) stage 2 (the one in the AMD dyno graph) which is for cars with a downpipe as an upgrade, and their doing a 2+ remap (not released yet) for cars with the full setup. The guy whos car was ran on that dyno graph is heading back to revo soon for the update i believe.
From what i gather theres a pretty substantial difference in performance between the stage 1 and 2 maps, from the guys who are running it or tried it.
We'll soon see how they get on, loads of the cupra guys are about to get the full set up fitted. just a hold up as miltek try and meet the demand for the exhausts. it'll be intesting to see how the guy in the clips manages with stage 2. Hes already matched the '360hp' REVO stage 2+ demo Leon (15th on the 1/4 mile league table) despite only having '225hp'
The Leon would monster the Ibiza on the road (once rolling) though mate..
Will be interesting to see what he gets with Stage 2, but just because he may get another 20-30 bhp, doesn't mean it'll drop half a second off his 1/4 mile time. I only took 3/10ths off with an extra 40-50bhp.. :surprised: But gained 7mph terminal speed which is where the extra power is evident.
What ever it does get, it'll be impressive for a 1.4.. :congrats: Be interesting to see what a Stage 1 and Stage 2 car gets with full interior and standard rubber..
I would hazard a guess that a Stage 1 car will crack 0-100 in about 14 seconds dead, which is about bang on for a 190-200bhp/tonne car.
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The Leon would monster the Ibiza on the road (once rolling) though mate..
God yeah. Still if i was driving a 360hp car, id be mighty p!ssed off if a 1.4 car with stage 1 map kept up with me. even more so if it was a skoda fabia :grin: Id say up to 3 figures it'll be close, but once past there the cupra will drive away
I would hazard a guess that a Stage 1 car will crack 0-100 in about 14 seconds dead, which is about bang on for a 190-200bhp/tonne car.
a feature in the redline mag tested a stock ibiza and a stage 1 ibiza. iirc the stock took 18seconds, and stage 1 took 13
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does that say TFSI on the back? if so its a totally different engine to the 1.4TSI twincharger
Audi call the engine a TFSI, but it's still the same engine as the Polo/Ibiza/Fabia. It's just a company brand thing, like they call Haldex 'quattro' on some models.
Audi call the 2.0 petrol engine TFSI too despite it being the same engine as the mk6 GTI/Octy vRS/Leon FR FL
In short currently VW call all their turbo petrols TSI, Audi call theirs TFSI and SEAT and Skoda just do as they're told by Mother in Germany.... :smiley:
bloody crazy. Skoda call it the TFSI in the octavia still in the brochures. alot of dealers dont even realise its a TSI now.
Is yours the 185Hp TSI?
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The Leon would monster the Ibiza on the road (once rolling) though mate..
God yeah. Still if i was driving a 360hp car, id be mighty p!ssed off if a 1.4 car with stage 1 map kept up with me. even more so if it was a skoda fabia :grin: Id say up to 3 figures it'll be close, but once past there the cupra will drive away
I would hazard a guess that a Stage 1 car will crack 0-100 in about 14 seconds dead, which is about bang on for a 190-200bhp/tonne car.
a feature in the redline mag tested a stock ibiza and a stage 1 ibiza. iirc the stock took 18seconds, and stage 1 took 13
I think the Stage 1 Ibiza is the same guy SY (ie the one in the video) as that was for Redline Mag. Revo's Leon was timed at 12 secs 0-100 and DSG cars have been timed at 10.5 secs.
Get someone in a manual Stage 2+ car that does granny shifts and like you say, he'll have a 1.4 up his chuff till 3 figures.. :surprised: :signLOL: Can't beat a bit of DSG.. :wink:
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I here what your saying on the 1.4tsi but Revo's k1 didnt have an intake nor intercooler and was using toyo t1r tyres which as you put it sy, are the worst tyres youve ever used. Same goes for the Evo mag 0-100 test.
The ibiza was using r888 for the 1/4mile and also the 0-100 in redline. Some fair bit of weoght loss aswell
Owen lcr was using r888's and recorded on his vbox 4.9 to 60 and 10.3 to 100. Its on a thread in this forum somewhere.
Manual stage 2+ cars arnt that slow boys...... Only if im driving them :grin:
I like the 1.4tsi and im considering one as the leons replacement as lets be honest how often do you go over 100mph and for a quick dash traffic light gp the 1.4tsi are pretty much unbeatable, also pretty good in the twisties aswell.
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true, and being on the std intake id bet it wasnt running 360hp either.