MK5 Golf GTI
General => Random Chat => Topic started by: tony_danza on March 29, 2011, 03:36:54 pm
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You spend all that money stripping, mapping, modding and fettling.... and you're still not as quick!
Megane RS250, delivery mileage and road tyres on a cold damp track - totally out of the box fresh. 8:06 Bridge to Gantry :congrats:
Why aren't VAG doing this?
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simple answer vag dont need to do it they let the owners make the choice and mod how we want
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I don't mean that as such - more making hot hatches hot.
A MKI/MKII Golf was much better built than French tat of the era, but they were just as good in terms of being hot.
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I woudl also say they dont really want to do it, Renault go for ring times etc to sell cars VAG can sell there more expensive cars to a different market who have different priorities than tracking. If they did make somethign that fast it would have an audi badge and cost £40k at least....... oh wait a minute thats an RS3....
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Im sure that VW could make a golf do that, but at what consequence? It would (im sure) alienate there typical GTI customer.
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A french hatch could be twice as quick but it still wouldn't tick the boxes for me. Massive depreciation, poor reliability, poor dealers, horrible cheap plastic interiors I just wouldn't! The r26 is a lovely car to drive when you're in the mood, most of the time its just an unrefined annoying rattle box. When i was 19 that would have done me, 10 years later I'm not interested. I love the GTI, being able to get the balance of everything makes it the ultimate hot hatch in my book!
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i think they could still make the golf a lot more focus'd without compromising daily use. all it would take is some stiffer bushings, stiffer ARBs, and better brakes. that nad the fact the VW still think 207hp is fine for the hot hatch market. now there nearest VAG competitor is about 40Hp more powerful now.
I think id take the megane tbh.
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i think they could still make the golf a lot more focus'd without compromising daily use. all it would take is some stiffer bushings, stiffer ARBs, and better brakes. that nad the fact the VW still think 207hp is fine for the hot hatch market. now there nearest VAG competitor is about 40Hp more powerful now.
I think id take the megane tbh.
What is it you've go against vw? It seems like in a lot of your posts you seem to criticise them? I'm not being funny but it just seems a little strange considering you are a member of a vw forum? :laugh:
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i think they could still make the golf a lot more focus'd without compromising daily use. all it would take is some stiffer bushings, stiffer ARBs, and better brakes. that nad the fact the VW still think 207hp is fine for the hot hatch market. now there nearest VAG competitor is about 40Hp more powerful now.
I think id take the megane tbh.
What is it you've go against vw? It seems like in a lot of your posts you seem to criticise them? I'm not being funny but it just seems a little strange considering you are a member of a vw forum? :laugh:
I think VW are doing just fine, reviews still class the gti as the hot hatch king, better than the more powerful s3 and if you look at the used car values, nobody want the more powerful, more focused cars as they're worth peanuts. A remap sorts out the power deficit anyway :laugh:
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What amazes me is he obviously has a passenger AND can laugh and joke all the way round.
Have Renault given an official lap for the full 'ring yet in the 250 cup? I know the R26R did around 8'17"
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I don't mean that as such - more making hot hatches hot.
A MKI/MKII Golf was much better built than French tat of the era, but they were just as good in terms of being hot.
that is a mad time, not a fan of the 250 though, and to be honest, its very golf like in terms of build, cue the people who have no idea with the same old, "its french so its rubbish" lol, drive it! french cars go, german cars look cool. as for the mk2 TD, as good as a pug gti? nah :P
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hang on! just realised its bridge to gantry! the stock r26 did a full lap in 8min 30, which is about 8 min B to G, so that time is not very good!!! take back my last post :signLOL:
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i think they could still make the golf a lot more focus'd without compromising daily use. all it would take is some stiffer bushings, stiffer ARBs, and better brakes. that nad the fact the VW still think 207hp is fine for the hot hatch market. now there nearest VAG competitor is about 40Hp more powerful now.
I think id take the megane tbh.
To be fair, I think Janboy has a point. The Golf is good, possibly great, but think what a touch more relatively inexpensive development (parts available within VAG) would create.
The Gti (in both std and Ed 30 guise) brakes are poor, yet Seat fit Brembo's to some, and R32 type brakes to others. Stiffer bushings are found elsewhere within VAG (Audi/Seat Cupra), so cost is virtually nil I would suggest.
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A french hatch could be twice as quick but it still wouldn't tick the boxes for me. Massive depreciation, poor reliability, poor dealers, horrible cheap plastic interiors I just wouldn't! The r26 is a lovely car to drive when you're in the mood, most of the time its just an unrefined annoying rattle box. When i was 19 that would have done me, 10 years later I'm not interested. I love the GTI, being able to get the balance of everything makes it the ultimate hot hatch in my book!
x2 :happy2:
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i think they could still make the golf a lot more focus'd without compromising daily use. all it would take is some stiffer bushings, stiffer ARBs, and better brakes. that nad the fact the VW still think 207hp is fine for the hot hatch market. now there nearest VAG competitor is about 40Hp more powerful now.
I think id take the megane tbh.
What is it you've go against vw? It seems like in a lot of your posts you seem to criticise them? I'm not being funny but it just seems a little strange considering you are a member of a vw forum? :laugh:
Im a lingerer :innocent: :innocent: Got nothing against VW, i just point out the obvious. The golf is a great all rounder (not as good as the octavia :P in that sense), but as a focused hot hatch its not as good.
As said the Cupra got the better brakes as standard, why couldnt the GTI or ED30. Could have even stuck in the cupra engine in the GTI as standard. would of made a good car a great car. Instead you have to pay the Ed30 premium to get it how it should have been as standard
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they had to give the seat bigger brake(not better) as the rest is crap :signLOL: same with skoda :P buy a proper car not the cheaper one :booty:
:popcornsoda: :popcornsoda:
:wink:
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Ill get myself an Audi then :P
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Ill get myself an Audi then :P
yeah but they are dull crap too
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Vw = peoples car
Audi = more money than sense and bland
Seat= cant afford the Golf
Skoda = cant afford the seat
:signLOL:
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Audi = living life above those poor VW drivers
Vw = Cant afford the Audi and are in denial
Seat= cant afford the Golf
Skoda = cant afford the seat
:signLOL:
Thats better :laugh:
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Vw = peoples car
Audi = more money than sense and bland
Seat= cant afford the Golf
Skoda = cant afford the seat
:signLOL:
I gather you don't rate the RS3 then Matt?
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we joke but this is vags problem, renaultsport is a seperate thing to renault like m to bmw, they dont have to share anything, vag build cars that compete with eachother :confused: best vag car in recent years was mk1 cupra r, 225 engine and brembos, nothing in range could touch it, s3 included, shame about the vag handling, but they dont build cars to handle so cant really complain if you buy one, my cupra r was at the time my family car and for that was fantastic, night and day better than my meg, would it come close on a track? no, you buy vag for everyday car, thats cheapish to run, good for kids and fast, but dont moan when the french car comes past because you got heated seats and your teeth :happy2:
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i hope its not a normal Audi ie you dont feel involved in the driving ie too much insulation in the car so you cant hear it and i hope its nice to drive i honestly do,it should be to warrant the RS badge but every mag is saying it good but just lacks a little,easy to sort i would think.
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Audi = living life above those poor VW drivers
Vw = Cant afford the Audi and are in denial
Seat= cant afford the Golf
Skoda = cant afford the seat
:signLOL:
Thats better :laugh:
could afford the audi and did but it was dull so get rid after a month :signLOL:
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i hope its not a normal Audi ie you dont feel involved in the driving ie too much insulation in the car so you cant hear it and i hope its nice to drive i honestly do,it should be to warrant the RS badge but every mag is saying it good but just lacks a little,easy to sort i would think.
should not have to sort! its an rs, buy an m1 and no need to mod
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i think they could still make the golf a lot more focus'd without compromising daily use. all it would take is some stiffer bushings, stiffer ARBs, and better brakes. that nad the fact the VW still think 207hp is fine for the hot hatch market. now there nearest VAG competitor is about 40Hp more powerful now.
I think id take the megane tbh.
What is it you've go against vw? It seems like in a lot of your posts you seem to criticise them? I'm not being funny but it just seems a little strange considering you are a member of a vw forum? :laugh:
As said the Cupra got the better brakes as standard, why couldnt the GTI or ED30. Could have even stuck in the cupra engine in the GTI as standard. would of made a good car a great car. Instead you have to pay the Ed30 premium to get it how it should have been as standard
But maybe VW were being clever. The GTI appeal was very broad, not just the modders. When the press drove the edition 30/cupra, they all said the standard gti was a better drive. The k04 having lag and the press enjoyed the instant lag free delivery of the standard gti. With a remap that is sorted but the press don't drive tweaked cars.
I have evo mags back from when the gti was winning all the awards and the brakes received very positive feedback, recorded stopping distances were shorter than all the competitors. We all know the r32/cupra brake set up is stupidy heavy and offers little more in stopping power, I know a couple of people who don't believe they're an improvement and believe they upset the front of the car making turn in heavy and less agile. Is this why the press didn't think the cupra's ride and handling was as sorted as a gti?
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It's not so much it being a Renault, more the recipe. It could be anyone - Ford, Vauxhall etc...
You want balls out, you buy the Cup. You want refined you buy the normal car, you want the best of both, you add the Cup chassis to the normal car.
If the French can make this work building cars in a shed in between going on strike, taking 2 hour lunches to nail both a bottle of wine and their mistress and do some Gaelic shrugging over 40 fags.... why can't the world's biggest car factory consider it?
Would it be that hard to offer a couple of flavours of GTI?
That car on a good day is easily a sub-8 B-G car, you might say Ring laps don't count, but it's a decent measure of a cars B-road pace. To get a Golf doing a sub-8, you're throwing coilovers/ARBs/brakes/remap/LSD/etc etc etc at it.... by the time you've done all that and paid the labour, you've probably caught up on the French car's depreciation and bust half your warranty - I know, I've done it.
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I don't mean that as such - more making hot hatches hot.
A MKI/MKII Golf was much better built than French tat of the era, but they were just as good in terms of being hot.
that is a mad time, not a fan of the 250 though, and to be honest, its very golf like in terms of build, cue the people who have no idea with the same old, "its french so its rubbish" lol, drive it! french cars go, german cars look cool. as for the mk2 TD, as good as a pug gti? nah :P
The MKII wasn't a 205GTI, and I know I'd rather have the latter, but it wasn't that far off - it's not like the massive gulf there is now.
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True and I would rather have the golf now! Lol I think vw could make a 250 /ford rs but they want to sell volume they base their sales on build Quality and still want to be seen as the mature brand ( sounds like a golf rubbish) which is why I don't get the French cars Are crap argument, don't compAre, the gti is less of a perfomance car than the other hot hatches and vw want that
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they had to give the seat bigger brake(not better) as the rest is crap :signLOL: same with skoda :P buy a proper car not the cheaper one :booty:
:popcornsoda: :popcornsoda:
:wink:
Vw = peoples car
Audi = more money than sense and bland
Seat= cant afford the Golf
Skoda = cant afford the seat
:signLOL:
Ok lets bring some objectivity to this
My new vRS that i have ordered (not taking into account the 20% off) should be nearly £27k. A 5 Door Golf GTi to the same spec (Satnav, Leather, Xenons, Bluetooth, Cruise, MFD, F&R Parking Sensors) is............Wait for it
£34K :surprised: :surprised:
Why is their a £7k premium.......
They share the same TSi Engine, DSG Box & Chassis. The interior materials are the same quality (door cards/dash etc) and don't say they aren't as my wife had a Golf and i had the door cards off that when i fixed her wing mirrors and the only difference is shape. Carpets are the same quality (to feel anyway) Satnav is the same just a different start up logo. Don't start saying they are built better as they use the same bolts for near enough everything.
Maybe the leather seats are a different price due to quality.
In the Octavia's favour though it is bigger (so more practical)
So we will take into account that the Octavia's leather seats are £1000 cheaper for a reason. So that leaves a £6k premium.
That's a very expensive VW badge at £3k each (front & rear)
Yes they may hold their value well. But it's all relative. After 3 years my vRS will be worth about £9k (as long as not high mileage) so i will have lost off the retail price (again not taking into account the 20% off) £18k.
A 3 Year old Golf GTi is around £16k (looking on VW Used approved) so again you have lost about £18k.
So although i could afford a far more expensive car than i have. It was actually my wife that made me see sense as the car i wanted to buy was £42k. She pointed out that everything i wanted from the car i could get from a vRS and save myself a shed load of cash.
If that sounds like I'm having a go I'm not i am just bringing another view point. FWIW the Skoda dealers i have used in the past (bar one :fighting:) have always been more than helpful in every respect.
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Two words FAG...............
Residual value :chicken:
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I would also say they dont really want to do it, Renault go for ring times etc to sell cars VAG can sell there more expensive cars to a different market who have different priorities than tracking. If they did make something that fast it would have an Audi badge and cost £40k at least....... oh wait a minute thats an RS3....
Nail on head. :happy2:
VW are just there to sell cars, and sell most of their GTI's on badge reputation. The car of the people tag has long gone apart from for those who still fall for advertising twaddle.
They clearly don't feel the need to produce the cars that we all on here love to relieve us of our hard earned. Just take a look at what they do offer for the golf lovers. The R20 although good is just meant to entice 30 something middle earners, who want the top of the range for the sake of showing their neighbours how well they are doing.
I like you Mike wish they would produce something tasty. Are they going to anytime soon, not a chance. :fighting2:
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Two words FAG...............
Residual value :chicken:
As i said it's all relative we both still lose £18k :booty: :P
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Two words FAG...............
Residual value :chicken:
As i said it's all relative we both still lose £18k :booty: :P
Yeh but we dont have to drive a Skoda! :P
:grin:
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But my £6k saving gets me a lot of mods :P
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But my £6k saving gets me a lot of mods :P
And a job lot of brown paper bags with eye holes! :signLOL:
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they had to give the seat bigger brake(not better) as the rest is crap :signLOL: same with skoda :P buy a proper car not the cheaper one :booty:
:popcornsoda: :popcornsoda:
:wink:
Vw = peoples car
Audi = more money than sense and bland
Seat= cant afford the Golf
Skoda = cant afford the seat
:signLOL:
Ok lets bring some objectivity to this
My new vRS that i have ordered (not taking into account the 20% off) should be nearly £27k. A 5 Door Golf GTi to the same spec (Satnav, Leather, Xenons, Bluetooth, Cruise, MFD, F&R Parking Sensors) is............Wait for it
£34K :surprised: :surprised:
Why is their a £7k premium.......
They share the same TSi Engine, DSG Box & Chassis. The interior materials are the same quality (door cards/dash etc) and don't say they aren't as my wife had a Golf and i had the door cards off that when i fixed her wing mirrors and the only difference is shape. Carpets are the same quality (to feel anyway) Satnav is the same just a different start up logo. Don't start saying they are built better as they use the same bolts for near enough everything.
Maybe the leather seats are a different price due to quality.
In the Octavia's favour though it is bigger (so more practical)
So we will take into account that the Octavia's leather seats are £1000 cheaper for a reason. So that leaves a £6k premium.
That's a very expensive VW badge at £3k each (front & rear)
Yes they may hold their value well. But it's all relative. After 3 years my vRS will be worth about £9k (as long as not high mileage) so i will have lost off the retail price (again not taking into account the 20% off) £18k.
A 3 Year old Golf GTi is around £16k (looking on VW Used approved) so again you have lost about £18k.
So although i could afford a far more expensive car than i have. It was actually my wife that made me see sense as the car i wanted to buy was £42k. She pointed out that everything i wanted from the car i could get from a vRS and save myself a shed load of cash.
If that sounds like I'm having a go I'm not i am just bringing another view point. FWIW the Skoda dealers i have used in the past (bar one :fighting:) have always been more than helpful in every respect.
The thing is, if you can afford the extra outlay at the beginning, you are losing the same amount over the ownership of both the cars so the gti isn't really costing a premium. You're investing an extra 6-7k at the beginning but getting it back at the end :smiley: Unfortunately I'd still rather have a vw than a skoda, as good as they may well be a car with a skoda or seat badge doesn't really float my boat. And indeed that sounds awful but it's that perception from mr average which allows vw to charge more
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But my £6k saving gets me a lot of mods :P
And a job lot of brown paper bags with eye holes! :signLOL:
Yeah for VW Drivers who have breathing problems when i tell them how much i saved and they see that my car is virtually the same as theirs :P
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But my £6k saving gets me a lot of mods :P
And a job lot of brown paper bags with eye holes! :signLOL:
Yeah for VW Drivers who have breathing problems when i tell them how much i saved and they see that my car is virtually the same as theirs :P
Virtually being the most critical word in that sentence...... :wink:
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The thing is, if you can afford the extra outlay at the beginning, you are losing the same amount over the ownership of both the cars so the gti isn't really costing a premium. You're investing an extra 6-7k at the beginning but getting it back at the end :smiley: Unfortunately I'd still rather have a vw than a skoda, as good as they may well be a car with a skoda or seat badge doesn't really float my boat. And indeed that sounds awful but it's that perception from mr average which allows vw to charge more
Fairy Nuff
However i would rather be Mr Average and have £6-7k sat in the bank earning interest than be Mr Keep With The Jones' and watch it sit on my drive. I also do take comfort in the fact that Skoda's beat VW's in the owner satisfaction surveys :innocent: :evilgrin:
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But my £6k saving gets me a lot of mods :P
And a job lot of brown paper bags with eye holes! :signLOL:
Yeah for VW Drivers who have breathing problems when i tell them how much i saved and they see that my car is virtually the same as theirs :P
Virtually being the most critical word in that sentence...... :wink:
Apart from the Shell they are :P :booty:
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The thing is, if you can afford the extra outlay at the beginning, you are losing the same amount over the ownership of both the cars so the gti isn't really costing a premium. You're investing an extra 6-7k at the beginning but getting it back at the end :smiley: Unfortunately I'd still rather have a vw than a skoda, as good as they may well be a car with a skoda or seat badge doesn't really float my boat. And indeed that sounds awful but it's that perception from mr average which allows vw to charge more
Fairy Nuff
However i would rather be Mr Average and have £6-7k sat in the bank earning interest than be Mr Keep With The Jones' and watch it sit on my drive. I also do take comfort in the fact that Skoda's beat VW's in the owner satisfaction surveys :innocent: :evilgrin:
I'm sure the skoda service is even better but I've spend many years buying the alfas, seats etc to save some money and I have to be honest I used to get so sick of the badge snobbery, it will break down, you're brave etc. I played safe with the GTI, cost me more than i wanted to spend but actually, 5 years later because of the slow depreciation it's turned out the cheapest car i've ever owned and not one person in 5 years has said anything other than positive comments about it. I really do like the vrs though!
Does the skoda have double skinned doors? Where are they built? I do struggle to see why vw ended mk5 production early because it was over engineered and too costly to make taking twice as long as renault take to make a meganne, yet skoda can chuck these out with massive discounts??
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They do have double skinned doors as i've had the door cards off on both of mine. As far as i'm aware they are built in the Czech Republic
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It all boils down to VAG branding again and pinsticking each model at a place in the range.
VW aren't allowed to outperform and Audi
Seat aren't allowed to outperform a VW
Skoda aren't allowed to outperform a Seat.
This is why VW will NEVER get a Renaultsport equivalent. Sure, the Golf R and Scirocco R are good cars, but VW will not build a 2 door, 2 seat car with lightweight panels, bucket seats, lightweight alloys, sports suspension, multi-pot track brakes and a roll cage as they are hobbled by VAG marketing. :fighting:
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But my £6k saving gets me a lot of mods :P
By your reckoning £6k will buy you 2 VW badges... :signLOL:
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But my £6k saving gets me a lot of mods :P
By your reckoning £6k will buy you 2 VW badges... :signLOL:
I wouldn't ruin my Skoda with that Claptrap :innocent: :evilgrin:
I'd get one Audi badge instead :signLOL:
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But my £6k saving gets me a lot of mods :P
By your reckoning £6k will buy you 2 VW badges... :signLOL:
I wouldn't ruin my Skoda with that Claptrap :innocent: :evilgrin:
I'd get one Audi badge instead :signLOL:
Wouldn't that be £10k by the same formula :P
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Ok guys let's cut the crap anyone fancy going to skoda show ? :signLOL: I can sence the old skip jokes coming :signLOL:
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But my £6k saving gets me a lot of mods :P
By your reckoning £6k will buy you 2 VW badges... :signLOL:
I wouldn't ruin my Skoda with that Claptrap :innocent: :evilgrin:
I'd get one Audi badge instead :signLOL:
Wouldn't that be £10k by the same formula :P
No that's for Both. It's by 1 for £6k or 2 for £10k with Audi :grin: