MK5 Golf GTI

All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: joesgti on March 05, 2009, 09:54:46 am

Title: boost problem.....again
Post by: joesgti on March 05, 2009, 09:54:46 am
my car doesnt seem to boost past 10psi in 1st or 2nd gear then in 3rd 4th 5th 6th it boosts to 20psi but only when its past 3000 revs!!??

it was in for diagnostics yesterday and no boost leaks were found, and the car seems to be healthy.

ive just been on the phone to the tuning company who mapped my car and they have told me to disconect the battery for 30 mins??? doubt this will do anything but has anybody else hurd or anything like this or can anybody suggest anything?

(also found that my front ARB had snapped off  :surprised:)
Title: Re: boost problem.....again
Post by: JPC on March 05, 2009, 09:56:19 am
is that not an intentional thing in the map?

who mapped it? does it normally boost past 20 in 1st n 2nd?
Title: Re: boost problem.....again
Post by: joesgti on March 05, 2009, 10:00:40 am
yups, it normally does. celtictuning.com are the mapping company.
Title: Re: boost problem.....again
Post by: tony_danza on March 05, 2009, 10:12:02 am
Pulling the battery can reset some of the ECU "learned" settings. It'l take a few days to adapt again, but see if it makes it any better.

Get the car warm then do it, so you can take it out and kick the sh*t out of it - that way it knows what it should be doing.
Title: Re: boost problem.....again
Post by: joesgti on March 05, 2009, 10:15:21 am
right so, go for a drive to get the engine warm, get home, disconect battery for 30-45 mins, re-attatch then go for a very very spirited drive?
Title: Re: boost problem.....again
Post by: tony_danza on March 05, 2009, 10:32:21 am
Pretty much yeah.

My mate used to do it with his R32 after weekday commuting had made it go to sleep, it was an animal once reset and thrashed for a few minutes.
Title: Re: boost problem.....again
Post by: joesgti on March 05, 2009, 10:35:33 am
Pretty much yeah.

My mate used to do it with his R32 after weekday commuting had made it go to sleep, it was an animal once reset and thrashed for a few minutes.

really!! sounds promising as it only really started once i got back from my 3 week boat trip. and it was fine the day before i left when i was running at the pod. this actually sounds promising.  :smiley:
Title: Re: boost problem.....again
Post by: tony_danza on March 05, 2009, 10:48:11 am
Can't hurt.

Back in the day, when AmD wasn't anything to do with BBT they offered this all singing, all dancing stage 2 kit for the MKIV R32 remap/induction/Milltek & Sportcats/etc cost a bloody fortune.

Anyway, one of the Golf mags held a 1/4 mile shoot out and he rocked up in his R32 and lined up with all these other modded N/A cars they'd sourced. Stage 2s, cams and all other manner of things... but no chargers/turbos. He pulled the battery, shoved a few bottles of octane booster in, would the timing forward with VAGCOM and took it for a spin up and down the straight.... and absolutely monstered every car there.

£20 and a 15 minutes work battered thousands of pounds worth of mods, there were some very annoyed customers complaining as you can imagine.
Title: Re: boost problem.....again
Post by: joesgti on March 05, 2009, 11:17:09 am
soulds like fun, you think if we all disconted our batterys and went for a drive all our cars would be quicker  :signLOL:
Title: Re: boost problem.....again
Post by: tony_danza on March 05, 2009, 12:01:14 pm
I don't know if I can bothered resetting the clock!.. but it's a good place to start if its feeling sluggish and there's no codes, then the MAF next.

That is a funny story, but I don't think it applies to every car??

That animal was just a wrong-un from day 1, it left Germany with a bad attitude and got hammered every day of its life. The only running in it got was the 5 minutes on tickover in the VW compound! Everyone says there's Friday cars and 1:xxx special ones, that was deffo a special. So, never race a 3 door black R32 just in case!!
Title: Re: boost problem.....again
Post by: joesgti on March 05, 2009, 12:14:53 pm
how do i check the MAF
Title: Re: boost problem.....again
Post by: tony_danza on March 05, 2009, 12:19:14 pm
You'd notice it running rough, so disconnect it and if it gets better, then you know the MAF is goosed. You can do some flow logging with VAGCOM to test it.
Title: Re: boost problem.....again
Post by: joesgti on March 05, 2009, 12:30:26 pm
wheres the MAF at?
Title: Re: boost problem.....again
Post by: tony_danza on March 05, 2009, 12:33:43 pm
It'll be on the intake, small electrical plug going into a housing - someone will find a pic I'm sure? I haven't got one to hand and I've a cement mixer on the go! (brew break)
Title: Re: boost problem.....again
Post by: joesgti on March 05, 2009, 12:34:54 pm
aha, you mean on the engine cover? so i just unplug this and see if it solves the problem?
Title: Re: boost problem.....again
Post by: WhiteGTI on March 05, 2009, 01:11:43 pm
Do the battery thing first Joe.

If the MAF was playing up then the car would not be running well, i.e. a little hesitant, lumpy, jerky etc. But i suppose its worth a go, seeing as its so easy to do!
Title: Re: boost problem.....again
Post by: RedRobin on March 05, 2009, 01:14:10 pm

my car doesnt seem to boost past 10psi in 1st or 2nd gear then in 3rd 4th 5th 6th it boosts to 20psi but only when its past 3000 revs!!??

it was in for diagnostics yesterday and no boost leaks were found, and the car seems to be healthy.

ive just been on the phone to the tuning company who mapped my car and they have told me to disconect the battery for 30 mins??? doubt this will do anything but has anybody else hurd or anything like this or can anybody suggest anything?


....Responding as you asked, Joe, and sorry to hear about this problem.

With my boost leak problem I didn't have the 10 psi / 3,000 rpm characteristic and also diagnostics showed a boost leak but not what was causing it. As described in my thread in the Troubleshooting forum, JKM then checked for physical leaks by a process of elimination.

How experienced are your tuners with the 2.0T FSI? Don't their diagnostics include data logging and what shows there?

HTH
Title: Re: boost problem.....again
Post by: joesgti on March 05, 2009, 01:35:39 pm
it was in for diagnostices at awesome-gti yesterday, and they know the 2.0t fsi platform very well as you would expect, but couldnt find anything, which got me thinking it may be a cracked turbo like yours.

will report back tomorrow once i have tried the battery thing,

the cars still rapid and doesnt feel any slower, its almost like a v-tec
Title: Re: boost problem.....again
Post by: RedRobin on March 05, 2009, 01:47:06 pm

it was in for diagnostices at awesome-gti yesterday, and they know the 2.0t fsi platform very well as you would expect, but couldnt find anything, which got me thinking it may be a cracked turbo like yours.


....I didn't realise it was Awesome - Thought I read celtic-something.

A cracked turbo/manifold would probably show as a boost leak in diagnostics, so you appear to be safe from that.
 
:happy2:
Title: Re: boost problem.....again
Post by: joesgti on March 05, 2009, 01:49:12 pm

it was in for diagnostices at awesome-gti yesterday, and they know the 2.0t fsi platform very well as you would expect, but couldnt find anything, which got me thinking it may be a cracked turbo like yours.


....I didn't realise it was Awesome - Thought I read celtic-something.

A cracked turbo/manifold would show as a boost leak in diagnostics, so you appear to be safe from that.
 
:happy2:

celtic tuning were the mapping company,  :smiley:
Title: Re: boost problem.....again
Post by: jonnyc on March 05, 2009, 02:11:09 pm
Have you checked your DV??
Title: Re: boost problem.....again
Post by: cossy on March 05, 2009, 02:13:35 pm
Have you checked your DV??

Good point, I would check it also.
Title: Re: boost problem.....again
Post by: joesgti on March 05, 2009, 02:15:05 pm
DV was taken off and re-fitted, all is good with the dv (unless a forge one can break inside?)

theres no boost leaks!  :confused:
Title: Re: boost problem.....again
Post by: RedRobin on March 05, 2009, 02:16:48 pm
^^^^
Yep, DV and PCV. They were the first things JKM checked once we knew there was a leak.

But surely the data logs would show a leak (higher % boost requests to compensate) if the DV was faulty?

Have Awesome either been on the rollers or taken your car out with a laptop?

Did Awesome check the Forge DV seal?
Title: Re: boost problem.....again
Post by: jonnyc on March 05, 2009, 02:18:58 pm
^^^^
Yep, DV and PCV. They were the first things JKM checked once we knew there was a leak.

But surely the data logs would show a leak (higher % boost requests to compensate) if the DV was faulty?

Have Awesome either been on the rollers or taken your car out with a laptop?

Did Awesome check the Forge DV seal?

So you have the forge DV??

Did you check the O-ring and make sure the piston was well lubricated, if it were to stick then you would leak boost..

Could be worth running some requested and actual boost logs on Vag com..
Title: Re: boost problem.....again
Post by: cossy on March 05, 2009, 02:19:07 pm
I cant speak for your map but my bluefin on the "Max Map" doesnt boost much in 1st & 2nd.

Low power map it does though :smiley:
Title: Re: boost problem.....again
Post by: joesgti on March 05, 2009, 02:46:12 pm
^^^^
Yep, DV and PCV. They were the first things JKM checked once we knew there was a leak.

But surely the data logs would show a leak (higher % boost requests to compensate) if the DV was faulty?

Have Awesome either been on the rollers or taken your car out with a laptop?

Did Awesome check the Forge DV seal?

So you have the forge DV??

Did you check the O-ring and make sure the piston was well lubricated, if it were to stick then you would leak boost..

Could be worth running some requested and actual boost logs on Vag com..

so the forge DV needs lube? has anybody else reported that they stick? PCV....whats that?
Title: Re: boost problem.....again
Post by: tony_danza on March 05, 2009, 02:53:57 pm
I think if it was anything broken, then it wouldn't be making boost in any gear?? You said the rest are fine 20psi over 3000rpm, right?

Try the battery and we'll go from there, bit by bit and we'll find it. No sense stripping the car, having a play with everything, fixing it and not knowing which one was at fault.

Sounds like you could do with someone VAGCOM savvy too for some live logging.
Title: Re: boost problem.....again
Post by: joesgti on March 05, 2009, 03:11:30 pm
I think if it was anything broken, then it wouldn't be making boost in any gear?? You said the rest are fine 20psi over 3000rpm, right?

Try the battery and we'll go from there, bit by bit and we'll find it. No sense stripping the car, having a play with everything, fixing it and not knowing which one was at fault.

Sounds like you could do with someone VAGCOM savvy too for some live logging.

yea, i could do with vagcom (if anybody lives near by and wants beer tokens?) will do the battry tonight and repot back here.

if this is any good  then i had a race spirited drive (on my own race course in fiji) with a clio 197 last night and i wiped the floor with it!? so the cars still making good speed  :confused:
Title: Re: boost problem.....again
Post by: RedRobin on March 05, 2009, 03:24:12 pm
....

But surely Awesome did some data logging!!?? :surprised: :surprised: :surprised: :surprised:

PCV = Positive Crankcase Ventilation one-way valve and quite a common failure it would seem.

Take your pick : -
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=safari&rls=en-us&q=PCV+valve+Mk5+GTI&start=10&sa=N

But perhaps you would hear something if it failed. Also performance would doubtless suffer more globally. I dunno, I haven't read it all.
Title: Re: boost problem.....again
Post by: joesgti on March 05, 2009, 03:26:11 pm
yes they did data logging but i never saw it  :confused:

wheres the pcv valve located? there were no vagcom faults thrown up!
Title: Re: boost problem.....again
Post by: tony_danza on March 05, 2009, 03:26:47 pm
Cough... wouldn't trust them with this cement mixer.. cough
Title: Re: boost problem.....again
Post by: joesgti on March 05, 2009, 03:30:26 pm
Cough... wouldn't trust them with this cement mixer.. cough

why? have you had a bad experience?

ive only just understood your sig, lol  :smiley:
Title: Re: boost problem.....again
Post by: ukdub on March 05, 2009, 03:32:08 pm
^^^^
Yep, DV and PCV. They were the first things JKM checked once we knew there was a leak.

But surely the data logs would show a leak (higher % boost requests to compensate) if the DV was faulty?

Have Awesome either been on the rollers or taken your car out with a laptop?

Did Awesome check the Forge DV seal?

So you have the forge DV??

Did you check the O-ring and make sure the piston was well lubricated, if it were to stick then you would leak boost..

Could be worth running some requested and actual boost logs on Vag com..

so the forge DV needs lube? has anybody else reported that they stick? PCV....whats that?

The Forge DV stuck on mine and did just like your car is doing.  Take it apart, clean it and relube it up.  Plus check your seals as well.
Title: Re: boost problem.....again
Post by: joesgti on March 05, 2009, 03:35:45 pm
SERIOUSLY!!! exactly like whats happend to mine?? what exactly did you do? was it almost like a vtec?
Title: Re: boost problem.....again
Post by: joesgti on March 05, 2009, 03:38:44 pm
also how did you even find this out?
Title: Re: boost problem.....again
Post by: ukdub on March 05, 2009, 03:41:30 pm
SERIOUSLY!!! exactly like whats happend to mine?? what exactly did you do? was it almost like a vtec?

Yes like a vtec.  More so when the car wasn't properly warm,  it would do it a few times then be ok until the car cooled down again.  Then it would act like a vtec again.  Basically the DV was sticking open, letting the boost past then suddenly shutting and giving full boost vtec styleeeee :driver:
Title: Re: boost problem.....again
Post by: ukdub on March 05, 2009, 03:43:13 pm
also how did you even find this out?

I could just tell the DV was sticking, plus it had been on the car for 10k so it was due a clean and lube up.
Title: Re: boost problem.....again
Post by: joesgti on March 05, 2009, 03:44:22 pm
mines been on the car for about 15k, so this is probably the cause. thanks ALOT mate  :happy2:
Title: Re: boost problem.....again
Post by: ukdub on March 05, 2009, 03:46:12 pm
mines been on the car for about 15k, so this is probably the cause. thanks ALOT mate  :happy2:

Hope it is because its a very cheap fix. :happy2:
Title: Re: boost problem.....again
Post by: joesgti on March 05, 2009, 03:49:08 pm
just spoke to awesome and they said this cant happen??!! wtf!!  :angry015:

how do you lube it?
Title: Re: boost problem.....again
Post by: RedRobin on March 05, 2009, 03:54:41 pm
just spoke to awesome and they said this cant happen??!! wtf!!  :angry015:

how do you lube it?

....Speak to Forge 01452 380 999 - They're a helpful company.

Actually there's a guy at Awesome (Sarah's BF) who used to work at Forge - He should know something.

Forge recently updated mine free of charge even though I didn't have a problem. When I did have that boost leak prob, JKM tested mine with a new seal. And they showed me and talked through their data logging, but that doesn't help you.
Title: Re: boost problem.....again
Post by: joesgti on March 05, 2009, 03:56:09 pm
RR how long was your 1st forge DV on for?
Title: Re: boost problem.....again
Post by: ukdub on March 05, 2009, 03:56:38 pm
just spoke to awesome and they said this cant happen??!! wtf!!  :angry015:

how do you lube it?

Unscrew the end, take the piston and spring out giving a good clean and relube with the grease that came  with your forge DV.
You don't have to take the DV of the turbo to relube it. :happy2:
Title: Re: boost problem.....again
Post by: joesgti on March 05, 2009, 03:58:59 pm
just spoke to awesome and they said this cant happen??!! wtf!!  :angry015:

how do you lube it?

Unscrew the end, take the piston and spring out giving a good clean and relube with the grease take came  with your forge DV.
You don't have to take the DV of the turbo to relube it. :happy2:

i didnt get any lube as i got it off gaz second hand!! OMG i bet it did another 10k before i put it on, lol.

so it unscrews without taking any bolts off? how?
Title: Re: boost problem.....again
Post by: RedRobin on March 05, 2009, 04:03:48 pm

RR how long was your 1st forge DV on for?


....Since July 2007. I had one of the first batch of 10! So, for at least 25k miles before recently upgraded. Never given any problem.
Title: Re: boost problem.....again
Post by: joesgti on March 05, 2009, 04:30:50 pm
just spoken to a very very helpful guy at forge motorsport UK. he said that they have had "a few" DVs fail in the same way as mine sounds (same symptoms) so he has asked me to take it off and have a look at it, hes also sending me a service kit for the valve including piston, spring and lube!

so if anybody else experiences this now we know why!!  :happy2: this foums great!!!  :happy2: :happy2:

(probs speaking too soon as its probs not even the problem  :laugh:)
Title: Re: boost problem.....again
Post by: vwrascal on March 05, 2009, 05:20:40 pm
good luck, be a cheap fix if it is the dv   :wink:
Title: Re: boost problem.....again
Post by: RedRobin on March 05, 2009, 05:27:54 pm
....

Glad you're making progress, Joe - Think Positive! :happy2:
Title: Re: boost problem.....again
Post by: tony_danza on March 05, 2009, 05:30:40 pm
Cough... wouldn't trust them with this cement mixer.. cough

4 seperate personal gripes, and a list as long as your arm of friends... not one for a forum, but I'll happily tell you in person.
Title: Re: boost problem.....again
Post by: SteveS on March 05, 2009, 05:59:04 pm
nice to knw this for future, hwoever i dont have a boost guage
Title: Re: boost problem.....again
Post by: joesgti on March 05, 2009, 07:01:30 pm
 :jumping: :jumping: :jumping: ITS SORTED!!!!!!!! :jumping: :jumping: :jumping:

so i went home from work, took the negative charge off my battery, went up stairs to "relax" for 30 mins. Came back outside, connected my battery and took her for a drive  :evilgrin: and ive fallen back in love with my gti  :love: :love:

All the way through the rev range in EVERY GEAR it pulls like a cheep hooker in bangkok!!  :evilgrin: it feels faster than ive ever know it feel, which is great!!! (probably thanks to lucas TBE  :drool:) it sounds awesome!!  :happy2:

So i now suggest that everybody goes outside and disconects their battery for half an hour and report back to see if its any quicker  :laugh:
Title: Re: boost problem.....again
Post by: vwrascal on March 05, 2009, 07:05:58 pm
good to hear there bud, (he says whilst disconnecting the battery)   :party:
Title: Re: boost problem.....again
Post by: SteveS on March 05, 2009, 07:13:51 pm
hha, im almost tempted to do it before me remap on sat
Title: Re: boost problem.....again
Post by: WhiteGTI on March 05, 2009, 07:15:35 pm
Glad to hear it Joe.

I've done this in the past (disconnect the battery, then hammer it) and found that initially it is quick, but then as the ECU adapts it starts to become back to normal. But if your turbo is back boosting to 20psi, then I guess it rules out any DV issues for the time being!  :happy2:
Title: Re: boost problem.....again
Post by: joesgti on March 05, 2009, 07:20:37 pm
Glad to hear it Joe.

I've done this in the past (disconnect the battery, then hammer it) and found that initially it is quick, but then as the ECU adapts it starts to become back to normal. But if your turbo is back boosting to 20psi, then I guess it rules out any DV issues for the time being!  :happy2:

i didnt need to hear that  :P
Title: Re: boost problem.....again
Post by: bacillus on March 05, 2009, 07:40:17 pm
the top just unscrews by hand revealing the piston.

It's not widely known but forge do have a service kit for the dv that consists of a new piston, two rubber O rings and a small amount of lube.
Title: Re: boost problem.....again
Post by: WhiteGTI on March 05, 2009, 07:41:46 pm
Glad to hear it Joe.

I've done this in the past (disconnect the battery, then hammer it) and found that initially it is quick, but then as the ECU adapts it starts to become back to normal. But if your turbo is back boosting to 20psi, then I guess it rules out any DV issues for the time being!  :happy2:

i didnt need to hear that  :P

Lol, I'm sorry mate..  :sad: I meant it as a good thing that it sounds simply an ECU glitch rather than DV problems  :smiley: :smiley:
Title: Re: boost problem.....again
Post by: neg on March 05, 2009, 08:53:11 pm
Bloody hell - all this happened so quick!

Just a note it is best to service the Forge every so often, more so on the K03 due to the heat - and as joe experienced forge will send you a service kit FOC.  The grease is a high temp grease so dont use any old stuff if you do it yourself.  Was the same with the 007P on the 1.8T.

Glad its running sweet again Joe.
Title: Re: boost problem.....again
Post by: joesgti on March 05, 2009, 09:55:03 pm
chris was right!! :sad: :sad: :sad: it ran awesome for an hour, and now it keeps going backwards and forwards!!! WTF!!! its like themap is going on the coming off then going back on, all within the same drive, for example i drive with foot to floor in 2nd and it goes to 20psi, then il drop down to 30 and repeat method and it will only boost to 10psi!!!! WTF IS GOING ON!  :angry015:
Title: Re: boost problem.....again
Post by: tony_danza on March 06, 2009, 08:37:02 am
Certainly sounds like that Forge valve then, I had something similar on my old car when the actuator mechanism would stick on the turbo and not open the vanes to full boost. It was off and on just like that, depending on whether it was working or not.
Title: Re: boost problem.....again
Post by: joesgti on March 06, 2009, 09:13:25 am
so you think the DV is the next thing to check? could it be a mapping issue?  :confused:
Title: Re: boost problem.....again
Post by: ukdub on March 06, 2009, 09:18:50 am
so you think the DV is the next thing to check? could it be a mapping issue?  :confused:

Should only take 10 minutes to clean and relube the DV
Title: Re: boost problem.....again
Post by: joesgti on March 06, 2009, 09:20:06 am
but need to wait to get the stuff from forge.
Title: Re: boost problem.....again
Post by: tony_danza on March 06, 2009, 09:23:05 am
I very much doubt it'll be the map, it could be something sending duff signals that the ECU is trying to make sense of buggering up the map... but that'd do it to the standard one too.

I'd deffo do the DV next, but whilst you're waiting for it to arrive, have a check around for loose/corroded electrical connections, check all boost hoses for hold, splits etc.
Title: Re: boost problem.....again
Post by: neg on March 06, 2009, 09:25:33 am
10mins... probably 30mins on the K03 to get to the thing, removem, clean and refit.
Title: Re: boost problem.....again
Post by: joesgti on March 06, 2009, 09:32:57 am
10mins... probably 30mins on the K03 to get to the thing, removem, clean and refit.

it un-screws, but yea! more like 1 hour  :angry015: well atleast il be busy on a friday night!
Title: Re: boost problem.....again
Post by: neg on March 06, 2009, 10:01:48 am
 :grin:  Go get ya hands dirty!
Title: Re: boost problem.....again
Post by: joesgti on March 06, 2009, 10:06:21 am
:grin:  Go get ya hands dirty!

 :P :P i wont have any hands left!

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fdd153%2Fjoesgti%2FJeremy-Beadle-210.jpg&hash=29a293a4705e63d52c28a7305f73a7a414ba1d0f)
Title: Re: boost problem.....again
Post by: neg on March 06, 2009, 11:00:05 am
LOL !

On one hand its quite difficult but on the other....  :laugh:
Title: Re: boost problem.....again
Post by: gazbutS3 on March 06, 2009, 02:28:36 pm
I think its already been said Joe, you don't need to remove the valve just unscrew the top, p.s. never got any lube with it :happy2:
Title: Re: boost problem.....again
Post by: joesgti on March 06, 2009, 02:32:12 pm
yea, i know. ive got the service pack coming from forge foc  :happy2:

should i wait for that or try fix it with different lube for UD?
Title: Re: boost problem.....again
Post by: tony_danza on March 06, 2009, 02:44:40 pm
If you can find out the type of lube you need, there'd be no harm in doing a temporary fix. It's got to be better than it is now.

KY Jelly, for those who married for the money!