MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: heady2010 on May 19, 2011, 10:32:59 pm
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anyone have any suggestions for fast road front pads on standard brake setup on a k03 gti, im gonna use vw discs. I dont want them to be noisy, jus perform better than vw pads.
cheers
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Pagid blue are a very nice pad.
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anyone have any suggestions for fast road front pads on standard brake setup on a k03 gti, im gonna use vw discs. I dont want them to be noisy, jus perform better than vw pads.
cheers
I had Ferodo DS2500 which are excellent but not road legal apparently.
But as for the noise thing, you will be a bit stuck there as the nature of the compound will be quite a lot of squeaking due to more pad vibration.
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what about yellow stuff pads on standard discs?
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Being fair, just a set of OE pads will do. Most fast road pads require to be warm to work and you dont get any initial bite until the pad has warmed up. I have an Octy VRS mk2 and just use the Skoda pads. They have never faded and always stop me in time. If you are doing track days then a fast road pad is the way to go. A lot of people fit fast road pads in the belief that they are better, but most do not work properly as they never reach the optimum temperature zone. Id judge whch pads to go for by what you use your car for. But remember because something is sold as a fast road pad does not mean its better than a normal pad. Just that it is less resistant to fade over repeated high speed breaking, which a road car never gets to do on the public highway for that length of time to cause the pads to fade. Also consider renewing your brake fluid as that can have an effect on braking.
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Ferodo DS2500's I had these on my EP3 and will put them on my GTI.. they are road legal and they work amazingly... All my mates use them. I have never had a squeel from them and they have never faded. And they got some abuse, believe me :signLOL: they always worked cold and hot too... I had no problems with them at all...
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Ferodo DS2500's I had these on my EP3 and will put them on my GTI.. they are road legal and they work amazingly... All my mates use them. I have never had a squeel from them and they have never faded. And they got some abuse, believe me :signLOL: they always worked cold and hot too... I had no problems with them at all...
They are NOT road legal!
BUT they are brilliant hot or cold.
They squeal like a pig but its a small price to pay for the quality braking they give you.
They are definitely NOT road legal.
Please see this about EU reg90:
http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?t=164202
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And here:
http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=12777.0
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My bad.. :innocent:
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DS2500 here :smiley:
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Pagid blue are a very nice pad.
I had Ferodo DS2500 which are excellent but not road legal apparently.
But as for the noise thing, you will be a bit stuck there as the nature of the
compound will be quite a lot of squeaking due to more pad vibration.
:happy2:
Pagid RS4-2 blue and Ferodo DS2500 work fine from cold though
they might squeek from time to time.
If you want to go for a road legal pad chose Ferodo DS Performance.
Not as good as the above, but cheaper and road legal.
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DS2500 here :smiley:
...and here :happy2:
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I'm using Ferodo DS2500 on the fronts (S3 rear brakes) but on AP Racing brake kit. I'd like to point out that DS2500's are perfectly legal when used as part of AP's complete brake kit.
My next front pads (needed soon) will be AP's own which they claim are an improvement on the DS2500. They offer separate fast road and track versions.
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I'm using Ferodo DS2500 on the fronts (S3 rear brakes) but on AP Racing brake kit. I'd like to point out that DS2500's are perfectly legal when used as part of AP's complete brake kit.
My next front pads (needed soon) will be AP's own which they claim are an improvement on the DS2500. They offer separate fast road and track versions.
Interested to hear why the same compound brake pad (Same maunfacturer - same constituents - different backing plate shape) is apparently road legal in one application (AP) and not in the other (OEM GTI) application. Surely it is the Pad compound that is Road legal or not?
I think one of the parties - either Ferodo or AP (I presume AP gave you the information RR) is telling porkies.
:popcornsoda:
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No. Example:
A Porsche compound is legal on a Porsche, not on a Ford and vice versa.
With the AP BBK the GTI is a different car. AP approved this pad with their kit.
Ferodo sadly never approved the DS2500 for any car and so not for the GTI
as well.
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No. Example:
A Porsche compound is legal on a Porsche, not on a Ford and vice versa.
With the AP BBK the GTI is a different car. AP approved this pad with their kit.
Ferodo sadly never approved the DS2500 for any car and so not for the GTI
as well.
But surely it is the compound that is approved?
The DS2500 compound is the same on a Porsche shaped pad, which is the same on a VW shaped pad, and if the compond is not EU reg90 approved, it does not matter what shape or application it is for?
Just intriqued, as it does not make sense to me.
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Interested to hear why the same compound brake pad (Same maunfacturer - same constituents - different backing plate shape) is apparently road legal in one application (AP) and not in the other (OEM GTI) application. Surely it is the Pad compound that is Road legal or not?
I think one of the parties - either Ferodo or AP (I presume AP gave you the information RR) is telling porkies.
:popcornsoda:
No. Example:
A Porsche compound is legal on a Porsche, not on a Ford and vice versa.
With the AP BBK the GTI is a different car. AP approved this pad with their kit.
Ferodo sadly never approved the DS2500 for any car and so not for the GTI
as well.
....We've had this discussion before, QD.
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Interested to hear why the same compound brake pad (Same maunfacturer - same constituents - different backing plate shape) is apparently road legal in one application (AP) and not in the other (OEM GTI) application. Surely it is the Pad compound that is Road legal or not?
I think one of the parties - either Ferodo or AP (I presume AP gave you the information RR) is telling porkies.
:popcornsoda:
No. Example:
A Porsche compound is legal on a Porsche, not on a Ford and vice versa.
With the AP BBK the GTI is a different car. AP approved this pad with their kit.
Ferodo sadly never approved the DS2500 for any car and so not for the GTI
as well.
....We've had this discussion before, QD.
Beg to differ RR, is that WE as in the Royal WE? Because I certainly have not previously had the discussion.
I was just offering a reasoned common sense thought on the matter. Whichever caliper the DS2500 slots into, it is not road legal, unless AP have spent £'s in independent testing..........
A murky grey area one suspects..............but Ferodo state that they are not for road use, what authority do AP have to countermand that? if it was me I would like it I writing from AP.
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Every car manufacturer approves a specific compound for an specific car type.
Aftermarket pads according to this OEM specification are marked ''ECE R90''.
If AP says they have several pads including the DS2500 they must have made
some kind of approval for them, but specific to this brake kit on specific cars.
ps:
''ECE R90'' is a real joke. Friction has just to be within +/- 10 %. An easy task
even for most semi-racing pads.
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Beg to differ RR, is that WE as in the Royal WE? Because I certainly have not previously had the discussion.
I was just offering a reasoned common sense thought on the matter. Whichever caliper the DS2500 slots into, it is not road legal, unless AP have spent £'s in independent testing..........
A murky grey area one suspects..............but Ferodo state that they are not for road use, what authority do AP have to countermand that? if it was me I would like it I writing from AP.
....I think you'll find that any statement from Ferodo is covering their arses for the cases where Joe Bloggs decides to mod his car by using DS2500's on an untested for DS2500 OEM brake kit. AP Racing's assurances to myself is good enough for me. They do know what they're talking about when it comes to automotive brakes.
Sorry if it wasn't you who had this discussion before but it has definitely already been discussed and the question answered on this forum.
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http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=12777.10
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Beg to differ RR, is that WE as in the Royal WE? Because I certainly have not previously had the discussion.
I was just offering a reasoned common sense thought on the matter. Whichever caliper the DS2500 slots into, it is not road legal, unless AP have spent £'s in independent testing..........
A murky grey area one suspects..............but Ferodo state that they are not for road use, what authority do AP have to countermand that? if it was me I would like it I writing from AP.
. They do know what they're talking about when it comes to automotive brakes.
One would hope so.........
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http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=12777.10
Thanks richwig, and here too
http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?t=164202 (http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?t=164202)
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http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=12777.10
Thanks richwig, and here too
http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?t=164202 (http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?t=164202)
Meat on the bones, I am intrigued by it all. Are Pagid RS29 legal - straight question..........
http://www.roadhouse.es/r90_en.htm (http://www.roadhouse.es/r90_en.htm)
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http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=12777.10
^ Reply #37.
Thanks, Rich :drinking:
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No problem Robin.
The only reason why i can think that pads such as the DS2500 are not legal in standard brakes is that "they" might think that the extra forces on the caliper would exceed its limitations.
Totally bizarre if you ask me. Also what about cars that come with Brembo 4/6 pots, can you use DS2500 in them?
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Not sure a post on a forum would do it for me............ :congrats:
Hoever I can see the sense in the post below. it would seem the problem lies in the +/- 15%. the '-' is there for good reason so shyte pads don't make their way onto open market, not entirely sure why the + is there.
I guess DS2500 probably are in excess of 15% better than OE datum pad, hence no Reg90 pass.
I have posted on this several times before.. searchy will find it.
Yes DS2500's are performance pads, classed as Race on the box.
Reg90 is a bullsh*t reg from EU, meant to stop poor performing pads from being sold as equivalents to OE spec... which makes sense. What they did was apply a 15% of OE fircition coefficient, but then cocked it up by not just making it within 15% of OE on the negative side, but made it +/-15% of OE. this then makes "BETTER" performing pads outside of reg 90 because they perform better.
functionally they work far better than stock, and this is why so many people want to run them.
If you were concerned about the pad in the event of a serious (fatal) road crash, then I can imagine the scenario of the car being taken to bits to determin the cause. Too good a brake pad would'nt likely be one of them, nor identifying every component on the car against every standard around. the only identifyer on the pads is the printing on the back of the pads, which is only printed on.... and can wear off. :rolleyes: with nothing printed or legible on the pad, determining the make, let alone the model & spec would seem impossible. Crash test investigation would confirm they were "working" and had sufficient pad material.
you can hypothosise as much as you like as to "what if", and would'nt likely ever leave the house as a consequence.
Reality is the pads perform superbly, stop far better than OE, which when Oe fade in hard use, and DS2500's dont, then the DS2500's would be the safer pads to run.
MOT brake testing takes no account of brake materials fitted to the cars, only that they work sufficiently well, which is the important aspect obviously.
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Not sure a post on a forum would do it for me............ :congrats:
....Agreed but I also have had conversation with both AP and my insurer.
Someone posting on a forum the suggestion that AP are telling porkies doesn't do it for me either.
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I dont think AP would be telling porkies regarding the legality of using DS2500 in their calipers. It would put them in a very deep bath full of water heated to 150oC if something went boobies up and the finger pointed back to an AP system.
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Not sure a post on a forum would do it for me............ :congrats:
....Agreed but I also have had conversation with both AP and my insurer.
Someone posting on a forum the suggestion that AP are telling porkies doesn't do it for me either.
Well someone is, or has carried out their own testing, why would the manufacturer say that the pad does not meet Reg 90 hence not road legal, but a company who it supplies says they are road legal? Same pad etc.
How does using them in a big brake kit make them legal? AP must have explained Robin? i am genuinely interested, I personally think it is a policy failure on behalf of the Reg 90 EU boffins, just by adding the 15+/-% bit has made lots of pads not road legal with a pen stroke..
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Think the reason why Ferodo does not claim their DS2500 as ''ECE R90'' compliant
is that they don't want to sell them to the fools looking for high brake forces but
don't understand that a ''sportier'' compound may cause some noise.
Same with Pagid. They offer their RS range as specialist products for enthusiasts.
So their customers know what to expect and what to pay for.
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Dunno if things have changed but I am pretty sure the Ferrodos I got with the last AP kit I bought came in a Ferrodo box with the standard non road legal disclaimer? Made no difference to me as I wouldn't use them anyway, they are awful, nowhere near as much initial bite and retardation as a decent pad like RS29, PF01 or if you don't care about disks and just want ultimate stopping then RS15. DS2500 just smear themselves all over the disks on a heavy fast car.
Tip for you too - when you need replacement disks get Performance Friction ones to fit your existing AP bells, about £50 more per disk but they last 50-100% longer than the AP disks on my track and don't crack in the same way :happy2:
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Dunno if things have changed but I am pretty sure the Ferrodos I got with the last AP kit I bought came in a Ferrodo box with the standard non road legal disclaimer? Made no difference to me as I wouldn't use them anyway, they are awful, nowhere near as much initial bite and retardation as a decent pad like RS29, PF01 or if you don't care about disks and just want ultimate stopping then RS15. DS2500 just smear themselves all over the disks on a heavy fast car.
Tip for you too - when you need replacement disks get Performance Friction ones to fit your existing AP bells, about £50 more per disk but they last 50-100% longer than the AP disks on my track and don't crack in the same way :happy2:
Interesting.
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AP no longer supply DS2500's with their brake kits. They have had their own compound made and claim improvements in several aspects.
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They would, the profit margin is higher :happy2:
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Performance Friction, Endless and Pagid are the finest in brake components (like Ferodo),
but the question is ''fast road'' so I guess the only recommendations of these I'd made
would be Ferodo DS2500 or the even better Pagid RS4-2.
Although these are both not road legal (with stock brake) and might cause some squeeking
they work fine on a daily driver.
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They would, the profit margin is higher :happy2:
....Cynical aren't you. The profit margin may indeed be higher, I don't know, but AP still have to R&D and test their pads. AFAIK their pads perform better than the DS2500's in several aspects. I posted info in the thread linked to earlier.