MK5 Golf GTI

All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: h4rdy on May 22, 2011, 08:16:35 pm

Title: Engine hunting and tickover low. Poor running in general. HELP!
Post by: h4rdy on May 22, 2011, 08:16:35 pm
Ok I have an issue with my ED30 its started for no apparent reason with no warnings.

Its hunting, idle form 900rpm to 2000rpm, which is making the DSG play up as well.

Then the revs drop to nearly cut out.

I have pasted the VCDS scan below which says G247 sensor, I have also unplugged the MAF as per another post when I searched which did nothing but make it misfire and pop.

Any ideas, BDMAlex has helped but he is on Holiday so don't like to bother him too much :happy2:

G247 or Fuel Pump sensor on top next? Or neither?


3 Faults Found:
008583 - Bank 1; System too Lean at Idle
               P2187 - 004 - No Signal/Communication - MIL ON
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 11100100
                    Fault Priority: 0
                    Fault Frequency: 17
                    Mileage: 108795 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2000.00.00
                    Time: 08:51:39

             Freeze Frame:
                    RPM: 1093 /min
                    Load: 22.3 %
                    Speed: 9.0 km/h
                    Temperature: 84.0°C
                    Temperature: 15.0°C
                    Absolute Pres.: 1020.0 mbar
                    Voltage: 14.351 V

004243 - Bank 1; Fuel Measuring System 2: Malfunction
               P1093 - 008 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00101000
                    Fault Priority: 0
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Mileage: 110943 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2000.00.00
                    Time: 17:43:27

             Freeze Frame:
                    RPM: 1392 /min
                    Load: 12.9 %
                    Speed: 19.0 km/h
                    Temperature: 80.0°C
                    Temperature: 31.0°C
                    Absolute Pres.: 1010.0 mbar
                    Voltage: 13.970 V

004506 - Fuel Pressure Sensor (G247): Malfunction
               P119A - 001 - Upper Limit Exceeded
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 01100001
                    Fault Priority: 0
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Mileage: 110995 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2000.00.00
                    Time: 11:35:35

             Freeze Frame:
                    RPM: 784 /min
                    Load: 18.0 %
                    Speed: 3.0 km/h
                    Temperature: 82.0°C
                    Temperature: 23.0°C
                    Absolute Pres.: 1010.0 mbar
                    Voltage: 14.224 V
Title: Re: Engine hunting and tickover low. Poor running in general. HELP!
Post by: vRStu on May 22, 2011, 08:18:21 pm
Is the oil filler cap on securely?

If you clear the codes do they come back??
Title: Re: Engine hunting and tickover low. Poor running in general. HELP!
Post by: TrickGTI on May 22, 2011, 08:24:47 pm
Faulty pcv?
Title: Re: Engine hunting and tickover low. Poor running in general. HELP!
Post by: h4rdy on May 22, 2011, 08:26:40 pm
Yes Stu the filler cap is secure and the codes come back immediately after you clear them.

Alex mentioned the fuel pump top sensor broke but I haven't been under there for that to happen.

But I will check tomorrow.

I drove it to work after a break and it was ok but then on the way home it just started.
Title: Re: Engine hunting and tickover low. Poor running in general. HELP!
Post by: h4rdy on May 22, 2011, 08:27:31 pm
Faulty pcv?

Trick, what does that stand for mate and where?
Title: Re: Engine hunting and tickover low. Poor running in general. HELP!
Post by: TrickGTI on May 22, 2011, 08:33:31 pm
It's located at the front of the engine and it's up against the rocker cover and it has a circular top to it I'd link a pic but I'm on the I phone at the mo. When it tears like the dv's do As there is a diaphragm in it and it let's to much air into the intake side and causes that exact problem.  :happy2:
Title: Re: Engine hunting and tickover low. Poor running in general. HELP!
Post by: TrickGTI on May 22, 2011, 08:35:09 pm
Also not sure what it stands for but it's a breather for the engine.
Title: Re: Engine hunting and tickover low. Poor running in general. HELP!
Post by: h4rdy on May 22, 2011, 08:39:32 pm
Is it in this picture?

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fi112%2Fjurzechik%2FG247.jpg&hash=cb95320824d578272cdad5c3ca169a5b6641d035)
Title: Re: Engine hunting and tickover low. Poor running in general. HELP!
Post by: vRStu on May 22, 2011, 08:41:48 pm
A loss of pressure in the rocker cover etc can cause hunting.  Often the filler cap or PCV are causes of this.

It would appear you need to investigate the fuel system.

Have a look here -

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fl233%2Fvrstu%2FG247TFSIFuelRail.png&hash=25a803a05f62add4373516699dacb12cc0c96d7f)

G247 is the one to the front left of the engine (and not on top of the fuel pump), item 5.
Title: Re: Engine hunting and tickover low. Poor running in general. HELP!
Post by: vRStu on May 22, 2011, 08:42:06 pm
Lol, beat me too it.
Title: Re: Engine hunting and tickover low. Poor running in general. HELP!
Post by: h4rdy on May 22, 2011, 08:45:31 pm
I have thanked you all multiple times. Will look tomorrow.

J
Title: Re: Engine hunting and tickover low. Poor running in general. HELP!
Post by: gazon69 on May 23, 2011, 12:23:17 pm
run the engine for a couple of mins until the engine starts reving erratically then try to remove the oil cap, if this is difficult to do or you can't remove it at all then it's your Pcv.
Title: Re: Engine hunting and tickover low. Poor running in general. HELP!
Post by: s3dubbin on May 23, 2011, 12:31:33 pm
Fuel pump sensor, mine done the exact same last year at the exact same revs. Stevie.
Title: Re: Engine hunting and tickover low. Poor running in general. HELP!
Post by: cmdrfire on May 23, 2011, 01:10:49 pm
Had a similar problem with mine (including progressively worse misfires/losing power under load) which was traced to that sensor. Went away when replaced, but just now started to come back  :scared:
Title: Re: Engine hunting and tickover low. Poor running in general. HELP!
Post by: h4rdy on May 23, 2011, 01:21:44 pm
Had a similar problem with mine (including progressively worse misfires/losing power under load) which was traced to that sensor. Went away when replaced, but just now started to come back  :scared:

Fuel pump sensor? Or g247?
Title: Re: Engine hunting and tickover low. Poor running in general. HELP!
Post by: cmdrfire on May 23, 2011, 01:24:55 pm
^^^
G247 fuel pressure sensor.
Title: Re: Engine hunting and tickover low. Poor running in general. HELP!
Post by: h4rdy on May 23, 2011, 01:47:10 pm
I will check PCV first I think then take a look at G247.

If not either then I will probably have to try and source a fuel pump.

Am I doing things in the right order?

Fuel Pump is the most expensive thing I would think.
Title: Re: Engine hunting and tickover low. Poor running in general. HELP!
Post by: s3dubbin on May 23, 2011, 02:54:00 pm
I had to purchase a new pump as the robbing gypo's do not sell the sensor seperate, i have a new fuel pump sitting but had to use the sensor. Madness money just for a sensor! Stevie.
Title: Re: Engine hunting and tickover low. Poor running in general. HELP!
Post by: h4rdy on May 23, 2011, 03:17:41 pm
If its that I might go APR!

But don't tell the wife!
Title: Re: Engine hunting and tickover low. Poor running in general. HELP!
Post by: cmdrfire on May 23, 2011, 03:21:48 pm
I had to purchase a new pump as the robbing gypo's do not sell the sensor seperate, i have a new fuel pump sitting but had to use the sensor. Madness money just for a sensor! Stevie.

Which sensor? VW replaced only the G247 on my car, or are you talking about the sensor on the top of the fuel pump?
Title: Re: Engine hunting and tickover low. Poor running in general. HELP!
Post by: h4rdy on May 23, 2011, 04:29:44 pm
PCV looks alright, just had it apart looks like new.

I took the plug off of G247 but it does not look easy to remove, any tips.

Also I need a part number to get a new one can anybody help?

If its not that then its a new fuel pump. :sad1:
Title: Re: Engine hunting and tickover low. Poor running in general. HELP!
Post by: s3dubbin on May 23, 2011, 08:18:00 pm
Sensor on top of the pump matey.  :happy2:
Title: Re: Engine hunting and tickover low. Poor running in general. HELP!
Post by: h4rdy on May 23, 2011, 08:44:04 pm
Yes I think your right but I am going to see how much G247 is first and try that.

If its a lot then I may just get a new fuel pump.

It would be nice if somebody had a spare I could borrow to try?

If its that I may go APR.
Title: Re: Engine hunting and tickover low. Poor running in general. HELP!
Post by: bacillus on May 23, 2011, 10:11:43 pm
I would replace the thrust (low pressure fuel sensor) sensor in the first instance.
It costs around £52 from vw but you can get the latest version one here for £46, http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/VW-GOLF-TOUAREG-FUEL-PRESSURE-SENSOR-06E906051K-/150596535227?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item231040c3bb
It takes less than 10 minutes to change once you get the engine cover off. It screws into the side of the hpfp.

The item at the top of the hpfp is a solenoid and you can test it's working by going into the Engine Controller ->> Output Tests ->> and from the drop-down menu Choose "Fuel Pressure Regulator (N276)" and hit Start. This will pulse the solenoid on the pump and you can listen to it click if you have the hood open.
Title: Re: Engine hunting and tickover low. Poor running in general. HELP!
Post by: h4rdy on May 27, 2011, 09:48:25 am
Thanks Bacillus, I have some parts turning up today so can crack on with solving.

G247 sensor new and a used fuel pump which was cheaper than that sensor.

I will update later.
Title: Re: Engine hunting and tickover low. Poor running in general. HELP!
Post by: h4rdy on May 29, 2011, 12:33:59 pm
Thanks Bacillus, I have some parts turning up today so can crack on with solving.

G247 sensor new and a used fuel pump which was cheaper than that sensor.

I will update later.

Ok I had a chance to pulse the fuel pump solenoid and thats ok and I changed the sensor on the pump thats ok too.

So next I will change G247.

If not that I will change the pump for the spare I now have.

If not that then..............................?
Title: Re: Engine hunting and tickover low. Poor running in general. HELP!
Post by: Saint Steve on May 30, 2011, 08:07:33 am
how did you check the diaphragm inside the pcv housing?? You have to break it open to look at it?

Do you get any sort of hissing sound when you shut the engine down from under the top engine cover?
Title: Re: Engine hunting and tickover low. Poor running in general. HELP!
Post by: gazon69 on May 30, 2011, 08:19:25 am
almost certain this is pcv
Title: Re: Engine hunting and tickover low. Poor running in general. HELP!
Post by: h4rdy on May 30, 2011, 09:01:17 am
how did you check the diaphragm inside the pcv housing?? You have to break it open to look at it?

Do you get any sort of hissing sound when you shut the engine down from under the top engine cover?

I managed to get the pcv off ok no damage and it looked perfect.

It's funny you mention the hissing noise I don't think it sounds right.

It's not when you shut it down though.

I think ill be getting a forge catch tank anyway.

I'll try G247 which should come tomorrow.
Title: Re: Engine hunting and tickover low. Poor running in general. HELP!
Post by: Saint Steve on May 30, 2011, 09:22:59 am
There is a Tiny hole on the end of the pcv. If the diaphragm has failed, then you will hear a small hissing sound as soon as you shut down the engine.

Sounds to me you have a faulty pcv too. £35 from memory for a new one.
Title: Re: Engine hunting and tickover low. Poor running in general. HELP!
Post by: h4rdy on May 30, 2011, 10:07:42 am
There is a Tiny hole on the end of the pcv. If the diaphragm has failed, then you will hear a small hissing sound as soon as you shut down the engine.

Sounds to me you have a faulty pcv too. £35 from memory for a new one.

I have a G247 turning up so ill try that first as I have bought it now.

Then ill buy a new pcv or get uncle visa out and buy a catch tank.
Title: Re: Engine hunting and tickover low. Poor running in general. HELP!
Post by: h4rdy on May 31, 2011, 02:11:59 pm
how did you check the diaphragm inside the pcv housing?? You have to break it open to look at it?

Do you get any sort of hissing sound when you shut the engine down from under the top engine cover?

No hissing noise when engine shut down.

Just to say I had to drive it today and its fine when driving just tickover is the problem.

I think this PCV thing is going to bite me in the ass! Because of this now:

2 Faults Found:
004506 - Fuel Pressure Sensor (G247): Malfunction
               P119A - 001 - Upper Limit Exceeded
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 01100001
                    Fault Priority: 0
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Mileage: 111055 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2000.00.00
                    Time: 06:18:30

             Freeze Frame:
                    RPM: 914 /min
                    Load: 14.1 %
                    Speed: 0.0 km/h
                    Temperature: 84.0°C
                    Temperature: 22.0°C
                    Absolute Pres.: 1010.0 mbar
                    Voltage: 13.208 V

008825 - Leak in Air Intake System
               P2279 - 002 - Lower Limit Exceeded
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 01100010
                    Fault Priority: 0
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Mileage: 111055 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2000.00.00
                    Time: 06:19:42

             Freeze Frame:
                    RPM: 835 /min
                    Load: 16.1 %
                    Speed: 0.0 km/h
                    Temperature: 86.0°C
                    Temperature: 24.0°C
                    Absolute Pres.: 1010.0 mbar
                    Voltage: 13.970 V

Readiness: 0000 0100

Title: Re: Engine hunting and tickover low. Poor running in general. HELP!
Post by: h4rdy on June 03, 2011, 11:24:10 am
Just got my G247 and its not what I thought it is.

So of the two pictures on page one, is my (BDMAlex) picture right or Stu?

Because what I have got is this:

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi592.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ftt8%2Fh4rdy%2F5ae1a678.jpg&hash=38935a278ecebcc62f9b43a78ad5838bcf23204e)

Also where does it go if it is the right one anyone got an ETKA drawing for me :happy2:

Title: Re: Engine hunting and tickover low. Poor running in general. HELP!
Post by: h4rdy on June 03, 2011, 11:25:32 am
Oh and I have completely given up now!

Got better things to do TBH!

 :sad1:
Title: Re: Engine hunting and tickover low. Poor running in general. HELP!
Post by: h4rdy on June 03, 2011, 05:35:47 pm
Anybody changed one?
Title: Re: Engine hunting and tickover low. Poor running in general. HELP!
Post by: vRSAlex on June 03, 2011, 07:57:02 pm
That's a map sensor mate.
Title: Re: Engine hunting and tickover low. Poor running in general. HELP!
Post by: h4rdy on June 03, 2011, 08:11:41 pm
Alex is the G247 screwed into the rail near that RS4 valve mate?
Title: Re: Engine hunting and tickover low. Poor running in general. HELP!
Post by: vRStu on June 03, 2011, 08:12:06 pm
Yep that's definitely a MAP sensor and not at all what you are looking for
Title: Re: Engine hunting and tickover low. Poor running in general. HELP!
Post by: h4rdy on June 03, 2011, 08:17:21 pm
Yep that's definitely a MAP sensor and not at all what you are looking for

I am on the case from where I got it, thanks guys.

Its just not bloody happening.

Stonor is ruined for me this year now!

Unless I am prepared to sit in traffic at 500rpm coughing and spluttering!
Title: Re: Engine hunting and tickover low. Poor running in general. HELP!
Post by: vRSAlex on June 03, 2011, 10:03:29 pm
Alex is the G247 screwed into the rail near that RS4 valve mate?

Yep. But its easier to get to than the fuel return valve.
Title: Re: Engine hunting and tickover low. Poor running in general. HELP!
Post by: h4rdy on June 04, 2011, 02:56:01 pm
So got a bit of Mojo back today and rebuilt the fuel pump with a newer one and thought I had cracked it as found this:

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi592.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ftt8%2Fh4rdy%2F693322db.jpg&hash=dd4dfb753f6256e0dc6d0c77334e1d2685c563e6)

But nope no good.

Newer one completely stripped and cleaned with solvent anyway so piece of mind and cam follower had no more wear than before so pleased with that too.

So then I replaced 4 coil packs with revision F as a precaution as mine were C.

So now I have to wait for G247 to arrive.

Hopefully next week it will be sorted.
Title: Re: Engine hunting and tickover low. Poor running in general. HELP!
Post by: TrickGTI on June 04, 2011, 03:51:45 pm
A loss of pressure in the rocker cover etc can cause hunting.  Often the filler cap or PCV are causes of this.

It would appear you need to investigate the fuel system.

Have a look here -

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fl233%2Fvrstu%2FG247TFSIFuelRail.png&hash=25a803a05f62add4373516699dacb12cc0c96d7f)

G247 is the one to the front left of the engine (and not on top of the fuel pump), item 5.

sorry to thread jack but can you get part 7 seperate?

also you any closer to finding the problem ???
Title: Re: Engine hunting and tickover low. Poor running in general. HELP!
Post by: bacillus on June 04, 2011, 05:44:58 pm
according to the guys on the vortex forum, you can't get part 7 seperately so try to get it off a redundant hpfp.

Title: Re: Engine hunting and tickover low. Poor running in general. HELP!
Post by: h4rdy on June 06, 2011, 04:14:50 pm
I am closer to sorting this problem because I have eliminated the fuel pump.

And no item 7 is not available seperately but you can pulse the solenoid via VCDS which I think BACILLUS told me so won't take his glory. See the other part of this thread.

Waiting for G247 now again.
Title: Re: Engine hunting and tickover low. Poor running in general. HELP!
Post by: h4rdy on June 08, 2011, 07:50:48 pm
Fixed :happy2:

So really the fuel pump I had was on its way out so pleased I rebuilt a used low mileage one before I fitted.

I changed the PCV as I was able to get hold of one before G247.

Then I obtained a G247 which solved it.

I then put the old PCV back on and it started again so the new one went back on and voila.

Some how G247 and PCV had failed!

Very pleased with myself for solving the problem, albeit took a while, which, wasn't a problem for me as its a toy!

The most difficult part was making a spanner for the G247 which isn't pretty (angle grinder!) but it worked!

Thanks for everybodys help.
Title: Re: Engine hunting and tickover low. Poor running in general. HELP!
Post by: bacillus on June 08, 2011, 07:54:48 pm
Well done mate.   :happy2:
Title: Re: Engine hunting and tickover low. Poor running in general. HELP!
Post by: Saint Steve on June 08, 2011, 08:20:53 pm
Great news it's all sorted,  :happy2:

Title: Re: Engine hunting and tickover low. Poor running in general. HELP!
Post by: TrickGTI on June 08, 2011, 08:36:17 pm
awesome happy for you  :happy2:  do you have a spare pump now as im after the sensor that sits on the top part and would be interested in buying it??  :smiley:
Title: Re: Engine hunting and tickover low. Poor running in general. HELP!
Post by: h4rdy on June 10, 2011, 09:31:45 am
awesome happy for you  :happy2:  do you have a spare pump now as im after the sensor that sits on the top part and would be interested in buying it??  :smiley:

Yes I have a spare pump now. I will completely clean and rebuild or you can just have the solenoid that sits on the top. Either way its £50.

Because the pump is useless without it.

Have you tried pulsing the solenoid in VCDS and listening for the clicks.

Title: Re: Engine hunting and tickover low. Poor running in general. HELP!
Post by: Pablos007 on June 18, 2011, 02:57:14 pm
I've got the same issue so thanks for this, it is really useful info.  :happy2: