MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: RedRobin on May 30, 2011, 11:17:35 am
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The need to repair rust on my wings (aka fenders) has given me the excuse to spend nearly three times as much on replacing them with carbonfibre ones. Captain Sensible I am not! I'd never make it as an accountant either but I'm determined to enjoy life at 64yo or die trying. The advantages are an extra 10mm per wing tyre clearance, lightweight, and maintenance-free :pomppomp:
I've found a UK source - Much better than all the import hassle: Carnoisseur in Dunstable: http://www.carnoisseur.com/shops/
Normally they retail at £640 (inc vat) but Carnoisseur are willing to offer these discounts on a group buy:
Hi Robin,
Here is the info for the Golf Mk5 GTi Front Wings group buy...
1... £600
2... £570
3... £558
4... £546
5... £510
Prices include VAT but exclude delivery, UK mainland is likely to be £50 delivery due to the size of the box, double packing to avoid damage and full insurance. Strangely European delivery isn't much more expensive, i.e. Holland £65!
The discount available isn't sensational purely because margins are very tight on carbon products, especially after shipping from USA.
Hope this helps!
Kind Regards,
Malcolm
Here are some pics I have 'borrowed' from Danish Jake's build thread and I'll add more if I find any:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FRedRobin_05%2FCarbonfibre%2FJake_wing_front.jpg&hash=7c7e2e5ef923c9cd2d918dc0cbffa9aee00e145e)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FRedRobin_05%2FCarbonfibre%2FJake_wing_side.jpg&hash=fef793ab2d1dca4bd4cb2b8aa066946e8fc892f0)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FRedRobin_05%2FCarbonfibre%2FJake_wing_painted.jpg&hash=e756382bd7f7729cdb481fe9c1830c45e0acfbb5)
Fitting is tricky and you'd ideally need to modify your OEM wheel arch liners (Jake hasn't bothered to yet).
Jake's review: http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,14020.0.html
At this early stage I haven't arranged payment details with Carnoisseur yet. I'm looking to wrap this up in second half of June. I would be collecting mine. So far, two of us are seriously interested but please add your name if your interest is serious.
1 - RedRobin
2 - rex
3 - [would make price £558]
Subject to advice from the forum Moderators this thread may be moved to the Group Buy section in due course [Thanks TC].
Please feel free to ask any questions. :smiley:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi22.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb308%2FRedRobin_05%2FWheelArch_paintlift.jpg&hash=416c4614a0aafbaf0c92e0ba4c1a3185cda25181)
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Is it worth linking up with R32oc.com on this... reckon there would be a few guys on there wanting this...
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Is it worth linking up with R32oc.com on this... reckon there would be a few guys on there wanting this...
....Yes, I'm a member there and that was my next move but I don't know what their rules are yet. :happy2: Thanks :drinking:
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Speak to Paulie or Wayne first I think... Reckon DazM would be interested... :happy2:
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I'm curious as to where that extra 10mm comes from when the wings have to line up with the bumper?
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I'm curious as to where that extra 10mm comes from when the wings have to line up with the bumper?
....It's all done with (tyre)smoke and mirrors :grin: - No, I think it's done by subtley changing the angle of the moulded Seibon shape so that it achieves 10mm at its highest point. It probably has same clearance as OEM at the lowest edge join with the bumper and that's well clear of tyres there anyway - Different axis of movement of front wheel/tyre movement if that makes sense.
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Deffo a good idea, I nibbled my wings even on the standard wheels/tyres. :happy2:
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Deffo a good idea, I nibbled my wings even on the standard wheels/tyres. :happy2:
....I think so too (I can be quite good at convincing myself sometimes) - I only get a 'nibble' (good word that) on more extreme cornering which is tight but I absolutely hate that sound because tyre damage leading to disaster is what flashes through my mind. Cutting into tyres ain't clever. I could raise my suspension but she handles so well as she is and if it ain't broke I don't mend it. It's one of my wings which is broke. :happy2:
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Looking forward to seeing yours all painted up with the GTI show-thru :happy2:
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Looking forward to seeing yours all painted up with the GTI show-thru :happy2:
....Me too! :party:
To be honest, the fact that I will additionally gain a cosmetic feature spurs me on to spend the dosh. Spending not inconsiderable money, several hundred squid, on just replacing the wings with OEM and painting them professionally but to only have the potential problem again in the future, and with no difference in appearance, simply doesn't appeal - This car is a keeper. The carbon GTI 'show-thru' (great term, Rich) is a real bonus.
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The only other option is to get the arches pulled professionally. Shame there isnt a cheaper alternative, almost forcing you to get the CF pr0n! :signLOL:
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- No more tyre 'nibbling' and therefore peace of mind.
- No future maintenance or repair.
- Show-thru carbon eye-candy.
- Lighter weight. (less important to me)
...Are what makes the extra spend worthwhile to me. :happy2:
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How do you get around the inner arch problem. If the carbon wings are 10mm wider, the inner lining won't meet the edge of the wing.
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How do you get around the inner arch problem. If the carbon wings are 10mm wider, the inner lining won't meet the edge of the wing.
....I haven't discussed it in detail with my trusted bodyshop yet but something along the lines of cutting the liner out of sight and bridging the gap with new material. Where there's a will there's a way. I'll post info in a few days when I've spoken to the boss there.
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Hmmm, let me have a think about this :laugh:
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Reg. the inner lining, as i see it there is 2 apparent solutions:
1. buy an extra set and use the outer part to widen the original ones.
2. find a good plastic welder and slice the ones you have in the middle and fit a strip of similar plastic into the gap.
On the CF wings the is not made ears to fit the inner lining so what is achieved by the above is the inner lining resting inside the CF wing
And reg, the bumper/fender joint, you wil get a small edge on top of the bumper that is visible as it is pulled the 10mm outat the edge of the wheel arch, i have tried to capture it on these photos.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi715.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fww160%2Fjakethemoss%2FIMG_0665.jpg&hash=a9a2a4c4aa9b69df09d9e6b073c4aee1829d0a05)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi715.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fww160%2Fjakethemoss%2FIMG_0664.jpg&hash=26e3e656938dd3dd2f0917d9641ac52c043a7bbe)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi715.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fww160%2Fjakethemoss%2FIMG_0663.jpg&hash=0969425b3c49e088d57e9347a4c4b4c5bf90c5de)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi715.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fww160%2Fjakethemoss%2FIMG_0662.jpg&hash=3ebb256db3347388697a34b61e77b8c5318e6cf1)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi715.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fww160%2Fjakethemoss%2FIMG_0661.jpg&hash=64f4d7d6d7cd3767bd5058e363994b817973ebd0)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi715.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fww160%2Fjakethemoss%2FIMG_0666.jpg&hash=65a55af1e519f6438db7fa202e0d0417fab60756)
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Re the inner lining, as i see it there is 2 apparent solutions:
1. buy an extra set and use the outer part to widen the original ones.
2. find a good plastic welder and slice the ones you have in the middle and fit a strip of similar plastic into the gap.
On the CF wings the is not made ears to fit the inner lining so what is achieved by the above is the inner lining resting inside the CF wing
And re, the bumper/fender joint, you will get a small edge on top of the bumper that is visible as it is pulled the 10mm out at the edge of the wheel arch, i have tried to capture it on these photos.
....My bodyshop has a good plastic welder and an attitude that they can do anything that's needed, so subject to their advice I'd probably do option 2.
Thanks for those photos, Jake - I'm going to need a long chat with my bodyshop to see if anything can be done about that.
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That looks horrible. I'd rather get steel again than have that alignment issue if it was me looking to buy.
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That looks horrible. I'd rather get steel again than have that alignment issue if it was me looking to buy.
:grin: ETTO, but i get your meaning. The reasoning for me was get the extra 10mm :happy2:
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Yes Simon, agreed. Having seen those pics i am not so sure now. I don't need an extra 10mm :wink:
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Anyone tried rollingnthe arch and modifying the liner if the weight saving isn't an objective ?
Seems that most ofmthe clearance issue is the liner ?
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RR, will they ship to Romania (very important to me)?
What I do not like about these fenders is the fact that they are not a perfect fit :scared:.
There are some other aftermarket fenders like Kerscher (http://www.kerscher-tuning.de/styling/index.php?marke=VW&typ=Golf+5+%281K%29&gruppe=Kotfl%FCgel+%2F+Seitenteile) but I am not sure if these fit better or how much clearance they have. I also don't know German to well so I can't read the pdf in the link.
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Anyone tried rollingnthe arch and modifying the liner if the weight saving isn't an objective ?
Seems that most of the clearance issue is the liner ?
....Modifying the arch and cracking the paint is what has given me the rust problem.
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But if you get the arches pulled (not just rolled) by 10mm and then painted you'd be sorted.
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RR, will they ship to Romania (very important to me)?
What I do not like about these fenders is the fact that they are not a perfect fit :scared:.
There are some other aftermarket fenders like Kerscher (http://www.kerscher-tuning.de/styling/index.php?marke=VW&typ=Golf+5+%281K%29&gruppe=Kotfl%FCgel+%2F+Seitenteile) but I am not sure if these fit better or how much clearance they have. I also don't know German to well so I can't read the pdf in the link.
....Yes they will ship to Romania.
I don't think those Kerscher wings are carbon but they would appear to be a good alternative as long as they fit well! They're a similar price to carbon though: €650 = £565. Kerscher have a couple of UK distributors but one of them has a bad reputation in the VW community. I'll see what I can find out.
I'm going to call my bodyshop later today too and have a chat about what might be done about that poor fit. I'll also call Carnoisseur about it as they are in regular contact with Seibon.
Looks like a busy day for me. I don't have time to work!
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But if you get the arches pulled (not just rolled) by 10mm and then painted you'd be sorted.
....You're perhaps forgetting that there is rust damage to be repaired and to do that professionally will cost me over £400 (incl paint). The question then is whether that repair will stop the issue occurring again sometime in the future. I'd still have the costs of modifying the liner due to the 10mm gap. But yes, it is an option.
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Yes, you are right. Those are not carbon. But that is not that important to me. If they fit well, and have another 10mm than I will not bother with the Seibon ones.
By the way... what is the weight reduction if I use Seibon carbon wings?
I know that the Seibon Carbon hood is not quite carbon and the weight reduction is about 4kg. By using VWR hood (which is real carbon) the weight reduction is 10kg!!
If the fenders are not that light than it is not worth paying extra just for the top carbon (and fiber glass underneath).
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I've just had a chat with my bodyshop boss and he can roll my arches as a favour within the price he's given me for repair and paint as he has a machine.
He says that having even a 10mm gap in the wheel arch liners is of little consequence so not worth modding though he can do if I want. Jake, are you seeing any problems such as excessive dirt from having the gap?
Re the Seibon carbon option he says that we must obviously retain the ability to remove the front bumper and the fit will have to be what it will be but obviously they'll fiddle best they can as they did with my carbon bonnet fit. Though not the cheapest they're guys I know quite well and can trust and they usually don't charge me for what they might have to do as extra.
Comparing Jakes night time with daytime pics I'm wondering if the camera flashlight and shadows make the fit look far worse than it is.... Jake?
Now off to speak with Carnoisseur/Seibon........
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Carnoisseur are going to contact Seibon today about the fit question and get back to me. Apparently Seibon aren't usually quick in replying. I'll report accordingly.
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Carnoisseur are going to contact Seibon today about the fit question and get back to me. Apparently Seibon aren't usually quick in replying. I'll report accordingly.
:grin: I wrote Seibon last year regarding the poor fitment,,,, No reply yet :fighting:
The inner lining is the big problem regarding rubbing. In my case i must conclude that 235/35-19 for track use when TT mk 2 lower control arms is fitted and with the car to low is not a good idea
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi715.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fww160%2Fjakethemoss%2FIMG_0669.jpg&hash=4c406e24afe5033ad595b5b20b8f1ebe1ff5aab4)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi715.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fww160%2Fjakethemoss%2FIMG_0670.jpg&hash=907f7258eb8a06b89df8d6d0262f8164b83ed0bd)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi715.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fww160%2Fjakethemoss%2FIMG_0672.jpg&hash=e2fc7800d09ace0b06952094d458a0a52bbb3ad1)
So i might need a new set myself :stupid: :grin:
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I like the idea of arch clearance etc and the non rust factor, but not that kind of fit. For what may even be a little bit extra at worst you could get new arches oulled and rolled, undersealed and the arch liner extrended, and it would surely be a far better finish, andworst comes to the worst a repaint in a few years, ( worst case ). Where as with the carbon ones looks like you will have bigger problems than a coat of paint.
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Yikes!! Jake, that looks really nasty! I'm trying to work out from your photos whereabouts that damage is :confused:
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I like the idea of arch clearance etc and the non rust factor, but not that kind of fit. For what may even be a little bit extra at worst you could get new arches oulled and rolled, undersealed and the arch liner extrended, and it would surely be a far better finish, and worst comes to the worst a repaint in a few years, ( worst case ). Where as with the carbon ones looks like you will have bigger problems than a coat of paint.
....I'm beginning to think you may be right. Plus I don't have to think twice about using my VW dealer's bodyshop - We have a long and successful history.
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:scared:
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Yikes!! Jake, that looks really nasty! I'm trying to work out from your photos whereabouts that damage is :confused:
left side, joint between fender and bumper, the tyre has hit the joint itself, due to me being to low mostly. but not that concerned really, will talk to the painter and see if he can mend it. My car is there to be used not show and shine :wink:
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Yikes!! Jake, that looks really nasty! I'm trying to work out from your photos whereabouts that damage is :confused:
left side, joint between fender and bumper, the tyre has hit the joint itself, due to me being to low mostly. but not that concerned really, will talk to the painter and see if he can mend it. My car is there to be used not show and shine :wink:
Your wheel surely cant hit that part there? :scared: Looks as if the bumper has hit the ground and forced up against the wing and cracked, broken the hardened sealer over the carbon. Might be wrong though. If they were a better fit i think they would be a definate option.
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Yikes!! Jake, that looks really nasty! I'm trying to work out from your photos whereabouts that damage is :confused:
left side, joint between fender and bumper, the tyre has hit the joint itself, due to me being to low mostly. but not that concerned really, will talk to the painter and see if he can mend it. My car is there to be used not show and shine :wink:
Your wheel surely cant hit that part there? :scared: Looks as if the bumper has hit the ground and forced up against the wing and cracked, broken the hardened sealer over the carbon. Might be wrong though. If they were a better fit i think they would be a definate option.
That's how I saw the damage too.
10mm extra clearance = always good
PLANNED weight reduction = good
I think that rolling and pulling the arches and then correct painting afterwards would be the best idea if you could guarantee symmetry between the arches after rolling/pulling. Especially if you could drop £££'s from the cost :happy2:
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Yikes!! Jake, that looks really nasty! I'm trying to work out from your photos whereabouts that damage is :confused:
left side, joint between fender and bumper, the tyre has hit the joint itself, due to me being to low mostly. but not that concerned really, will talk to the painter and see if he can mend it. My car is there to be used not show and shine :wink:
Your wheel surely cant hit that part there? :scared: Looks as if the bumper has hit the ground and forced up against the wing and cracked, broken the hardened sealer over the carbon. Might be wrong though. If they were a better fit i think they would be a definate option.
I hadn't thought of that. My reasoning being that i know the wheel have hit the inner lining as it had pulled the rear screw and plug that hold the inner lining out of the fender. but the car did hit the kerb when i went off. :confused:
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I hadn't thought of that. My reasoning being that i know the wheel have hit the inner lining as it had pulled the rear screw and plug that hold the inner lining out of the fender. but the car did hit the kerb when i went off. :confused:
....Then I think hitting the kerb at speed is what must have done it. I think you'd have seen tyre damage if the wheel had caused the carbon wing damage.
The fit we've been discussing doesn't look so bad to me - That 'ledge' which I think your camera flash over emphasised continues around below the headlight anyway. Those folks who can be a bit anal about such things should have a closer look at all the other body panel joins on their Mk5's!
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FRedRobin_05%2FCarbonfibre%2Fwing_fit.jpg&hash=2eae7b60adf88690cd7314198f11020a55892782)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FRedRobin_05%2FCarbonfibre%2Fwing_fitOK.jpg&hash=56e426175bfcc69ab116454ee0a5789d6906e131)
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very nice...lose some weight...what about the front bumper?
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very nice...lose some weight...what about the front bumper?
....The front bumper is already plastic, so nothing worthwhile to be gained.
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I tested the tyre clearance on a roundabout today with Alex - It rubs! My bodyshop suggested earlier today that they roll/pull the OEM arches first (a freebie) to see if they can gain enough to make the difference. If successful, they can then prep and paint. Otherwise I can supply them carbon wings to paint.
Also, he reiterated that a gap between the arch liners and wings doesn't matter at all - It's all designed to drain water etc irrespective of the liners.
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RR, with that rims is the rubbing present?
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RR, with that rims is the rubbing present?
....OZ Racing Alleggerita 18's with 225 tyres. It used to rub with my OEM Monza 18's in the same circumstances too. It only happens when driving very hard into very sharp corners - Such as going all the way around a roundabout at speed < A good test.
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What is your rim offset and width?
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What is your rim offset and width?
....It's all in this thread, rex: http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,8152.0.html (gotta dash.....................)
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Thanks... So the rims are 8 inches wide and have 48 offset. Why not buy ARB's instead of the wings (do you already replace the ARB's?). I bet the wheel will no longer rub.
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Thanks... So the rims are 8 inches wide and have 48 offset. Why not buy ARB's instead of the wings (do you already replace the ARB's?). I bet the wheel will no longer rub.
....I've already got Eibach ARB's (Anti Roll Bars). ARB's never make any difference to either the offset or the tyre clearance. Perhaps you mean the wishbones :confused:
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Nope, I meant ARB's. When cornering the cart tilts. With bigger ARB's the car tilts significantly less with smaller ARB's. I used to have rubbing because of this tilt and because when going thorough sharp corners the wheels steer a lot.
So, you are right they have no effect on clearance or offset but might prevent rubbing when going through sharp corners (like you described).
Also another element which is contributing to this is the height of your car. If it is really low combined with a "not big" ARB (such as H&R for example) you will have rubbing when cornering (sharp corners mostly).
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Nope, I meat ARB's. When cornering the cart tilts. With bigger ARB's the car tilts significantly less with smaller ARB's. I used to have have rubbing because of this tilt and because when going thorough sharp corners the wheels steer a lot.
So, you are right they have no effect on clearance or offset but might prevent rubbing when going through sharp corners (like you described).
Also another element which is contributing to this is the height of your car. If it is really low combined with a "not big" ARB (such as H&R for example) you will have rubbing when cornering (sharp corners mostly).
....Ah, then I understand :happy2: Thanks.
My car feels very flatly planted on corners - It doesn't cause me to think I have any excessive body roll. The problem if I change to a 'bigger' (stiffer) front ARB is that if I don't also change the rear ARB won't it encourage oversteer/understeer (I forget which ARB front to back weight difference does which)?
Either way, I still have to do something about my wings because of the rust potential.
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I didn't even realise you didn't have aftermarket ARB's Robin. Brilliant mod and well worth it.
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I didn't even realise you didn't have aftermarket ARB's Robin. Brilliant mod and well worth it.
Ehh? Robins got Eibach front and rear. :laugh:
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I didn't even realise you didn't have aftermarket ARB's Robin. Brilliant mod and well worth it.
Ehh? Robins got Eibach front and rear. :laugh:
....That's right. I've had them since early 2006. Ray West suggested and fitted them.
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I didn't even realise you didn't have aftermarket ARB's Robin. Brilliant mod and well worth it.
Ehh? Robins got Eibach front and rear. :laugh:
....That's right. I've had them since early 2006. Ray West suggested and fitted them.
:ashamed:
I thought it was odd. Must just be my tablets kicking in :laugh: