MK5 Golf GTI

All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: cmdrfire on June 03, 2011, 01:01:39 pm

Title: HPFP failed
Post by: cmdrfire on June 03, 2011, 01:01:39 pm
As per the title. Been misfiring under load (despite new coils/sparks) and actually lost throttle response sometime last week on the way in to work. Had a suspicion it was the fuelling system for a while. VW have been investigating and told me yesterday the HPFP has failed... so got an APR one on order from JKM. Should be with me (and hence VW) tomorrow. Bah.
Title: Re: HPFP failed
Post by: Poppa Dom on June 03, 2011, 01:02:21 pm
Was it an uprated pump that failed or an oem one?
Title: Re: HPFP failed
Post by: cmdrfire on June 03, 2011, 01:06:42 pm
OEM pump, original pump from the factory.

Figured may as well get the APR pump to replace it.

...apparently cam follower still looks OK after 107k miles!
Title: Re: HPFP failed
Post by: openside on June 03, 2011, 01:34:48 pm
Oh oh, looks like i may eventually go down this route. Still miss firing under load, coil packs been changed, changing sparks tonight. Did they say it could be the injectors, cos that's what they told me?
Title: Re: HPFP failed
Post by: openside on June 03, 2011, 01:42:10 pm
Triffic!! Just found out the price of the HPFP not much change from £700. That's all i need! :confused:
Title: Re: HPFP failed
Post by: _Nathan_ on June 03, 2011, 01:55:12 pm
OEM one is about £160, don't see the point in APR unless you are chasing power.
Title: Re: HPFP failed
Post by: openside on June 03, 2011, 02:20:06 pm
Phew, that sounds a alot better not after massive power 250bhp is plenty for me!
Title: Re: HPFP failed
Post by: liver on June 03, 2011, 02:26:04 pm
can achieve 250 without the need for an aftermarket high pressure fuel pump, just get the standard one as said above at around 160ish
Title: Re: HPFP failed
Post by: bacillus on June 03, 2011, 02:30:52 pm
Phew, that sounds a alot better not after massive power 250bhp is plenty for me!

Famous last words...   :smiley:
Title: Re: HPFP failed
Post by: cmdrfire on June 03, 2011, 02:31:57 pm
Triffic!! Just found out the price of the HPFP not much change from £700. That's all i need! :confused:

Yeah including VAT and next day (Saturday in this case) it was £764. Hefy wodge of cash. APR was chosen just for its improved overhead over OEM one, I'm not after silly numbers as well (something else would just break) and admittedly my OEM pump only did fail after 100k miles.

Before my pump started having issues my car was putting out just shy of 250 (it was 249  :laugh:) with pump on the way out around 20 horses went missing and it's been on its way down.
Title: Re: HPFP failed
Post by: openside on June 03, 2011, 03:01:04 pm
£764 is out of my league at the moment, just refurbed my alloys and DSG service, think there would be a divorce on the cards.........then again that's not such a bad thing.......more power or wife! lol
Title: Re: HPFP failed
Post by: liver on June 03, 2011, 03:09:16 pm

power>wife
Title: Re: HPFP failed
Post by: bacillus on June 03, 2011, 03:17:09 pm

power>wife

Shouldn't that be power=wife...   :laugh:
Title: Re: HPFP failed
Post by: liver on June 03, 2011, 03:21:45 pm

power> wife

power = many wives
Title: Re: HPFP failed
Post by: jmspear on June 03, 2011, 03:30:53 pm
make sure they categorically gauarantee that the cam and follower are ok, sounds v suspicious to me that the pump failed yet the follower is ok??? What was the failure mode? sounds like worn or broken plunger in which case I would have expected worn follower, and potentially cam, unlikely plunger would wear that much (to cause fuel cut and power loss, whilst follower was in good condition...........
Title: Re: HPFP failed
Post by: vRStu on June 03, 2011, 03:56:09 pm
More likely to be the seal worn I'd think.
Title: Re: HPFP failed
Post by: jhono on June 03, 2011, 04:54:56 pm
interesting i have the very same problem,intermittant power loss under full throttle in 4 5 6 gear allways around 2500 rpm,once thru that it runs perfect,just did near 1000 miles on holiday and it never missed a beat,except under full load,other than that you wouldnt know there was anything wrong,even fitted a new maf which has of course improved matters ,but i darnt hand it over to vw,just thinking about driveing it till it gets worse
Title: Re: HPFP failed
Post by: Little_Dave on June 03, 2011, 05:00:45 pm
Power = younger wife!
Title: Re: HPFP failed
Post by: martziniuk on June 03, 2011, 06:23:49 pm
Did you get fuel in the oil then?
Any fault codes?
Title: Re: HPFP failed
Post by: cmdrfire on June 03, 2011, 07:45:30 pm
I'd been "sniffing" the oil before (after reading some other thread where someone picked up a problem this way) and couldn't smell fuel (it's not a regular habit though). There've been no indications of fuel in the oil thus far but I'll get more info.

make sure they categorically gauarantee that the cam and follower are ok, sounds v suspicious to me that the pump failed yet the follower is ok??? What was the failure mode? sounds like worn or broken plunger in which case I would have expected worn follower, and potentially cam, unlikely plunger would wear that much (to cause fuel cut and power loss, whilst follower was in good condition...........

Don't know the exact failure but I was planning on investigating further with the technician in any case and to maybe get the follower replaced as a matter of course (I've spent this much, what's another £24?). Been informed though that both cam and follower appear nominal (as mentioned, JKM also inspected the follower at around 90k miles and indicated that it looked fine to them).

interesting i have the very same problem,intermittant power loss under full throttle in 4 5 6 gear allways around 2500 rpm,once thru that it runs perfect,just did near 1000 miles on holiday and it never missed a beat,except under full load,other than that you wouldnt know there was anything wrong,even fitted a new maf which has of course improved matters ,but i darnt hand it over to vw,just thinking about driveing it till it gets worse

Sounds exactly like the symptoms I've been suffering over the past year or so. Normally perfect running but in higher gears under load stuttering. I did exactly as you did, drove it until it got worse  :laugh:
Title: Re: HPFP failed
Post by: jhono on June 04, 2011, 12:34:27 pm
did you find out what was causing it
Title: Re: HPFP failed
Post by: cmdrfire on June 04, 2011, 01:14:30 pm
did you find out what was causing it

The symptoms? Well, yeah, the HPFP on its way out.

As to the specific failure mode of the HPFP, that I don't know (yet) but I've received the APR one and will be hotfooting it down to VW after I grab a bite to eat to drop it off and get more details (including confirmation of the cam follower status).
Title: Re: HPFP failed
Post by: jhono on June 04, 2011, 01:24:26 pm
Mmmm would be interesting once you have had it done if it cures the problem,hope it does for you there aint nowt worse than a car you loike with problems,not had mine long and even today got a quote to have the rear bumper colure coded but how far do ya go wen ya car is not running perfect :sad1:
Title: Re: HPFP failed
Post by: cmdrfire on June 04, 2011, 11:00:31 pm
Just a quick note, the tech who has actually been doing the work on the car wasn't there today but he'll call me on Tuesday (I'm not in the country on Monday) with more details. They're also very aware of the cam follower/lobe/etc issue and actually had the TSB out and amongst all of the paperwork.
Title: Re: HPFP failed
Post by: cmdrfire on June 08, 2011, 10:36:10 pm
Got my car back, feels like new  :love: those 20 horsepowers that went missing feel like they've come back as well.

The follower and lobe are still nominal, as is the associated valvetrain. Should hear back soon what the specific failure on the HPFP was.
Title: Re: HPFP failed
Post by: openside on June 09, 2011, 10:02:12 am
Got my car back, feels like new  :love: those 20 horsepowers that went missing feel like they've come back as well.

The follower and lobe are still nominal, as is the associated valvetrain. Should hear back soon what the specific failure on the HPFP was.

Glad everything's been resolved. Nothing worse than chasing a fault! Thankfully, after i changed my spark plugs my problem hasn't returned,. However, everytime i put it under load im still expecting it to misfire. Didn't think it would be as simple as spark plugs. Only time will tell!!
Title: Re: HPFP failed
Post by: RedRobin on June 09, 2011, 10:29:31 am
^^^^
Glad to hear it's all resolved, Neo  :happy2:    [Have you now got time to progress the LED project?]

Does anyone know if the OEM fuel pump has ever been revised by VW?
Title: Re: HPFP failed
Post by: Hedge on June 09, 2011, 10:31:04 am
Just out of interest did you renew the follower?
Title: Re: HPFP failed
Post by: martziniuk on June 09, 2011, 12:14:50 pm
^^^^
Glad to hear it's all resolved, Neo  :happy2:    [Have you now got time to progress the LED project?]

Does anyone know if the OEM fuel pump has ever been revised by VW?
Yes it has been revised a few times now, The latest is a rev k.
Title: Re: HPFP failed
Post by: Boothy on June 09, 2011, 12:58:26 pm
Got my car back, feels like new  :love: those 20 horsepowers that went missing feel like they've come back as well.

The follower and lobe are still nominal, as is the associated valvetrain. Should hear back soon what the specific failure on the HPFP was.

What mileage you got on yours mate? Mines in with a similar issue except it only does it under light loads, not heavy and I'm crossing my fingers its not a damaged camshaft and follower. 
 
Title: Re: HPFP failed
Post by: cmdrfire on June 09, 2011, 05:32:57 pm
What mileage you got on yours mate? Mines in with a similar issue except it only does it under light loads, not heavy and I'm crossing my fingers its not a damaged camshaft and follower. 
 

110k miles mate.

Just out of interest did you renew the follower?

Nope, follower still looked in as-new condition (!). Must be down to the very early-build AXX components I suspect.

^^^^
Glad to hear it's all resolved, Neo  :happy2:    [Have you now got time to progress the LED project?]

Does anyone know if the OEM fuel pump has ever been revised by VW?

I'll see if I can get a move on with the LEDs now Robin! Far too much work on as usual though  :rolleye:


Glad everything's been resolved. Nothing worse than chasing a fault! Thankfully, after i changed my spark plugs my problem hasn't returned,. However, everytime i put it under load im still expecting it to misfire. Didn't think it would be as simple as spark plugs. Only time will tell!!

I have that fear of a misfire still but I did a hard pull in third today all the way from 1800RPM to redline and it felt good to be able to do that again without a stutter or a miss. Idle is all smooth now as well, used to be a bit lumpy, and I've noticed more smoothness under light to medium loads especially in the lower gears. Really has made a huge difference  :happy2:
Hopefully it's just the sparkies on yours, as I said I changed my plugs and coils and that didn't make any difference, hopefully was just a fouled plug in your case  :happy2:
Title: Re: HPFP failed
Post by: Boothy on June 09, 2011, 06:20:11 pm
What mileage you got on yours mate? Mines in with a similar issue except it only does it under light loads, not heavy and I'm crossing my fingers its not a damaged camshaft and follower. 
 

110k miles mate.

Just out of interest did you renew the follower?

Nope, follower still looked in as-new condition (!). Must be down to the very early-build AXX components I suspect.

^^^^
Glad to hear it's all resolved, Neo  :happy2:    [Have you now got time to progress the LED project?]

Does anyone know if the OEM fuel pump has ever been revised by VW?

I'll see if I can get a move on with the LEDs now Robin! Far too much work on as usual though  :rolleye:


Glad everything's been resolved. Nothing worse than chasing a fault! Thankfully, after i changed my spark plugs my problem hasn't returned,. However, everytime i put it under load im still expecting it to misfire. Didn't think it would be as simple as spark plugs. Only time will tell!!

I have that fear of a misfire still but I did a hard pull in third today all the way from 1800RPM to redline and it felt good to be able to do that again without a stutter or a miss. Idle is all smooth now as well, used to be a bit lumpy, and I've noticed more smoothness under light to medium loads especially in the lower gears. Really has made a huge difference  :happy2:
Hopefully it's just the sparkies on yours, as I said I changed my plugs and coils and that didn't make any difference, hopefully was just a fouled plug in your case  :happy2:



....and its still the original cam follower!? This whole cam/cam follower has me well boggled innit. Speak to one person and they say the AXX engines have chocolate camshafts and are prone to the follower wearing and then another person says the exact opposite?  :stupid:
Title: Re: HPFP failed
Post by: alexperkins on June 09, 2011, 06:23:23 pm
AXX engines... if they have a one part camshaft are made of chocolate and should be replaced (under VW warranty as it was a recall as such) for a two part camshaft
Title: Re: HPFP failed
Post by: cmdrfire on June 09, 2011, 06:34:59 pm
@Boothy, it's still the original follower.

AXX engines... if they have a one part camshaft are made of chocolate and should be replaced (under VW warranty as it was a recall as such) for a two part camshaft


...I had heard that the AXX engines had the two part shaft from the factory? Might be wrong, but was just what I heard (hence why the issue manifested on BYP/other engines prior to AXX blocks)


In any case my follower/lobe/etc all look nominal... JKM inspection @90k (they said "like new") and the most recent incident @110k.
Title: Re: HPFP failed
Post by: alexperkins on June 09, 2011, 06:37:21 pm
Some early AXXs still had the earlier BYP etc single part camshaft due to crossover etc
Title: Re: HPFP failed
Post by: Boothy on June 09, 2011, 06:39:20 pm
AXX engines... if they have a one part camshaft are made of chocolate and should be replaced (under VW warranty as it was a recall as such) for a two part camshaft

I have spoke to the VW technical department after seeing theVW bulletin about the cam follower. They told me that no recalls had been issued on any of the parts connected to it and didn't even know there was a one piece and two piece cam  :surprised: :stupid:
Title: Re: HPFP failed
Post by: alexperkins on June 09, 2011, 06:40:28 pm
Typical VW lol
Title: Re: HPFP failed
Post by: Boothy on June 09, 2011, 06:45:00 pm
Typical VW lol

Are you sure the choco camshaft  was recalled?
Title: Re: HPFP failed
Post by: cmdrfire on June 09, 2011, 06:49:48 pm
Some early AXXs still had the earlier BYP etc single part camshaft due to crossover etc

AXX block was earlier than the BYP block I thought?

Certainly my car which is one of the earliest Mk5 GTI built came with AXX block and only the later cars came with BYP/BWA blocks etc which had the camshaft issue.

My understanding was (and I could be completely wrong so forgive me) that the very early blocks had the two piece shaft; this was replaced with the single piece shaft that was prone to failure; and the two piece was reintroduced as a TSB on the later engines?

@Boothy, don't think it was a recall, but it was a TSB at least in the US.
Title: Re: HPFP failed
Post by: Boothy on June 09, 2011, 06:52:01 pm
Damm! I wanted it to be a recall  :laugh: :sad1:
Title: Re: HPFP failed
Post by: alexperkins on June 09, 2011, 06:55:44 pm
Some early AXX still had the earlier BPY etc single part camshaft due to crossover etc

BPY was after AXX sorry typed it the wrong way around!
Title: Re: HPFP failed
Post by: cmdrfire on June 09, 2011, 07:08:46 pm
Some early AXX still had the earlier BPY etc single part camshaft due to crossover etc

BPY was after AXX sorry typed it the wrong way around!

Ah fair 'nuff. VW's always done a bit of mix and match anyway...

Hans, ve haff run out of ze part! Zere is no more in the bin!
Ja, iz okey Fritz, just be usink zis one!
Title: Re: HPFP failed
Post by: martziniuk on June 09, 2011, 10:58:57 pm
So do you know what part failed on the pump?
I'm sure many of us have Stripped these pumps down to replace internals but to me the only seal which would cause any trouble is the piston seal. Maybe the pump was blocked with crud, mine had quite a bit in @ 100k?
Title: Re: HPFP failed
Post by: cmdrfire on June 10, 2011, 12:18:06 pm
Not sure, I'll open mine up when I get it back on Monday (VW have kept it for a quick looksee of their own). Certainly I'm happy now with the added overhead of the APR unit.