MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: SteveP on June 10, 2011, 08:06:12 pm
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Who running this combo and did you have any issues with the ball joint being too close to the disc?
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This would be entirely useful info. Which BBK did you have? Was it a VWR set up?
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I have TT arms but DaveB's nqsbbk but I know the problem you are referring to...
The ball join is very close to the disc and there is no heat shield for the bbk. This might cause the ball joint to suffer from head stoke. This is really crucial because it has rubber components which degrade after being subjected to great temperatures.
Is this the problem or just the spacing issue?
I am really curios to see what you find out. Hope there aren't any problems... :drinking:
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Who running this combo and did you have any issues with the ball joint being too close to the disc?
I remember Mike (TD) having problems with his standard lower arms and an AP BBK, iirc it was a fairly large disc set-up similar to the VWR one but only gave a few mm's clearance to the ball joint hence him getting his Alcons to get around the problem
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The issue is it about 1mm into the disc (VWR 6 Pot), however KPM Racing (who are fitting these) have used this setup on a couple of their VW Cup cars before with the VWR brakes and had to make a slight cut on the edge of the balljoint to give a bit extra clearance but mine just won't fit :confused:
Just wondering if there are different versions of the GTI hubs??
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Just wondering if there are different versions of the GTI hubs??
Nope. Unless they changed the GTI hubs with S3 hubs.
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Nope there are 100% the original GTI hubs on the car.
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Only thing i could think is that you have a slightly different disc set up to the current VWR ones? Did they use the first gen (project Mu) on yours Steve? Could be the 'Offset' on the disc bell?
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Nope both using the newer 6 pot AP Caparo brakes :confused:
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Hmmm weird one for sure! :confused:
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Any pics Steve?
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Nope will be popping back to the workshop with more parts tomorrow morning so will try to grab some then if it's still on the ramps :happy2:
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Would having adjustable top mounts make any difference for clearance ?
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Not to the level of difference I saw today I wouldn't have thought.
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Have the cup cars not got the kw bent coilovers which give loads of camber. This will give them a bit more clearance but not much. Try and get some pics up.
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Couldn't get any pics as I needed to get it back in one piece for it's MOT.
I can't see the rest of the suspension making any difference though, as it's almost like the hub is different or the brake disc it sitting too far back towards ball joint :confused:
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Any chance VWR have a disc lying around to compare with the ones on the car as it would seem the only variable if the hubs are oem? :confused:
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Nope no spares in stock at present.
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PM Sent matey
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what are the measurements from your arm on the car to the back of the disc? i will measure mine and see if they are the same :happy2:
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Matty already thinks yours will be different, once I have got it back I will take some measurements anyway :happy2:
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worth a look mate :happy2:
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Sure is, cheers mate :happy2:
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Steve Just thought, maybe GTI Hubs with S3 Bearing Units, the TT uses S3 Front bearings on the rear of the TTRS, they mix and match Bearings and hubs to get an extra 10mm of track.
So the S3 bearings would be shorter to ensure the track on the S3 isn't increased when combined with alloy 3C0 hubs, so if somebody has put S3 hubs on GTI iron hubs that might do it.
Having said all that it could all be Bullsh!t
Hat.....Coat.......TAXI!!!!!!!!!
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Dave that's very possible with VWR :laugh: :laugh:
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Dave that's very possible with VWR :laugh: :laugh:
:signLOL: :signLOL:
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Dave that's very possible with VWR :laugh: :laugh:
ETKA Agrees....
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I will give Kev a call on Monday and see if he can check before taking the car for the MOT :happy2:
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Dave that's very possible with VWR :laugh: :laugh:
ETKA Agrees....
Dave, do you have the part numbers for the S3 and GTI ones on screen, I am struggling to find them?
Also would this affect the position of the disc in the caliper??
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S3 ...........8J0 598 625
GTI..........1T0 498 621
Disc would sit approx 10mm further back, struggling to think of any other ideas
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I don't think there are any differences in dimensions between Golf/A3 bearings
and S3/TT bearings, just a completely machined surface.
Also my track width doesn't increase with the S3 (3C0...) hubs (fortunately).
No doubt without any dust cover the rotor will cook the ball joint which
has an inner plastic lining and is filled with grease. This will shorten it's life
significiently.
I'd recommend to protect the ball joint by bending a small piece of sheet
metal on it.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.golfvigti.com%2Fupload%2Fdirect%2Fi_14_70_0_42_1307828326_7435.jpg&hash=f58245b01a82ab6f87b1aa7360539364bbe596cf)
Bend yellow parts 90° to protect the ball joint and the green around the the steering rod.
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The centres for the 4 mounting bolts are the same, they're all iron no ali elements, they're all driven, unless the splines are different. So maybe the only thing that can change is the offset.
Maybe the car had some lowish ET wheels on at some point and some genius decided it would work......
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Disc was looking central according to Mr P.
Strange..........
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Audi offsets can be a little freaky though Dave, take for example the TTRS rears, assumed to be S3 rears....actually exactly 10mm taller than S3's and the carriers very different.
Theres 10mm sort of floating between the different platforms with a combination of hubs to "wheel bearing housings"
Im far from saying Im right, just a possible freaky answer to a freaky problem..you're right though very strange
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Well the mystery continues, back on the original arms with new GTI balljoints (old ones had seized so had to be cut off) and these are too close to the disc :confused:
To the point the right hand one touches the disc on full left hand lock, anyone got any more ideas ?
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What did Mat say had been changed on the front end of the car?
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Only bushes.
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Hi Steve;
I can't register Mk5GolfGTI.com and sent private message. I have a Golf mk6 but car haven't ESP. I want make TPMS system. It's working my Golf?
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Only bushes.
:confused: strange as the brakes had been built around my car and your car,infact i have a pic on my phone of your car when it had the very first ever caliper and disc setup put on it on my phone. keep us up to date :smiley:
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Does anyone have an update on this? As I just accquired a set of used TTRS lower arms, and was planning on fitting it together with the Forge BBK.
But now that I read about these issues, perhaps it would be advisable to stick to the BBK only? Thanks
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With a lot of other BBK's you might be fine, but without knowing how far inwards the disc sits on the Forge kit I can't confirm. :happy2:
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With a lot of other BBK's you might be fine, but without knowing how far inwards the disc sits on the Forge kit I can't confirm. :happy2:
Hi Steve sorry for replying in this section, I am interesting in your folding mirrors but as a new member I can't reply in the sale section or pm you.
Wanted to know as you are advertising fitting to, where abouts are you.
I have 56 3dr r32, if you could drop me a pm please, thanks again.
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I found the bottom TT MKII ball joint to touch VWR brakes, Seems the sizes from the hub mounting face plate to the inner disc face are 50mm VWR, 47mm AP and 42.3 Alcon 6-pot and 4-Pot
Looking at a few pictures I think the TT joint sits at a 'better angle' with the strut, but this means the bottom corner protrudes out more. I might try and see how much excess meat there is on the joint to get extra clearance from grinding. Any ideas
I think the AP kit will fit but have yet to measure exact clearance, If I knew the fig fro the stock disc I could measure the stock clearance ?
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If it was like mine then there isn't enough "meat" to grind back on the TT ball joints to make them fit :sad1:
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Bugger, it seems odd as the ball joint is attached to the same point it is only the casing that is different and the angle of this must be where it goes wrong, I wish I had measured more accurately. The AP kit I am sure will fit as I have picture of this with the backplate fitted, so we are only talking 3mm (50-47)
Did you try the VWR kit ? and grind ?
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Yep it touched the discs, it appears some cars are worse than others. For mine with brand new GTI balls joints it still got very close on full lock :scared:
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Interesting, I think I need to measure very accurately to see if an AP kit might fit