MK5 Golf GTI

All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: keano on June 24, 2011, 05:18:17 pm

Title: ECU problem continued...
Post by: keano on June 24, 2011, 05:18:17 pm
Hi Guys,

Thought I'd update on the problem I've been having with my car.

The other day the 'Engine Management Light' & the 'ECP' light flashed up and stayed on.

Several faults registered from Throttle Flaps, to over requesting fuel, but the only error that could not be cleared was the 'Check Sum Error'.

Now I've had my remap taken off and the original file replaced, and the fault still registers and will not clear....so I've been told this points to the ECU.


I've been given different cures from different people so here goes:


**New ECU

**ECU update by Volkswagen (But they don't see any ECU updates on the VW computer  :stupid: )

**& The option I have opted for.  Removing the ECU myself  :confused: :confused: and passing it onto an ECU specialist in Sheffield.



Has anyone had any experience of this, or offer me any other options?

All the best,

Nick  :happy2: :happy2:
Title: Re: ECU problem continued...
Post by: bacillus on June 24, 2011, 05:21:00 pm
Hmm, is you car still under warranty?
Checksum error indicates an ecu problem to me.
Title: Re: ECU problem continued...
Post by: keano on June 24, 2011, 05:21:40 pm
It's not no  :sad1: :sad1:

Title: Re: ECU problem continued...
Post by: PDT on June 24, 2011, 05:54:05 pm
This may or may not help you, but hopefully it will let you understand the checksum process.

The checksum is a number (usually 8bit 4 digit code such as A8D7) and is a sum of all of the bytes of data within a piece of software. The ECU uses this checksum to verify the contents of a code or software version, i.e the ECU on the TFSi engine is an ME9 system and uses a 2048kb file and the data held within this file has a total sum which is validated by the ECU using this checksum code.

When this data is modified in any way, the checksum will need to be corrected, otherwise when the ECU looks for a valid checksum it wont be found and the car is unlikely to start.

Tuners use tools to read and write the data (the 2048k file mentioned above) to and from the ECU and when writing the data back into the ECU most tools will correct the checksum and there wont be any problems. Other tools dont correct the checksum and the tuner will need to correct it manuall by using a HEX editor such as Winols.

However, I have seen some ME9 ecu's which have been fine for years and no changes have been made to the ECU data and then all of a sudden come up with a checksum error. In most cases VW have an update to resolve this issue and most tuners (the ones that care and take tuning seriously) will obtain a copy of this update so that they can update customers ECU's to the latest software version available before tuning it.

Can I ask when your car was last in at the dealers? Has it been checked for available updates?

The reason the error may be present both with your tuned and original map is that its likely the tuned version is your original map with just a few maps altered to gain performance, the error is still there due to the data area causing the problem remains unchanged duringthe tuning process.

Im confident that the issue can be resolved via software alteration and a new ECU isnt required.
Title: Re: ECU problem continued...
Post by: vRStu on June 24, 2011, 05:59:33 pm
There is a TSB which relates to an ECU update to correct the problem.  Don't know who your tuner is but Checksum Error can normally be corrected by them by loading a modified version of the updated file.
Title: Re: ECU problem continued...
Post by: keano on June 24, 2011, 06:16:37 pm
Wow! Thanks for the replies  :happy2:

Dealer hasn't seen the car for a long time. Although the systems brought up that no update was needed and everything was up to date.

Some things I could point out are that the original map I have on now is the one that was saved before anything was changed.

And also, relevant or not, when the 'Tuned map' was taken off the car too see if that was the problem, the 2048kb was only about 700kb i think, almost as if the ECU had altzheimer's and forgotten some of the code.

Does that make any sense?
Title: Re: ECU problem continued...
Post by: TrickGTI on June 24, 2011, 06:41:00 pm
Mine did the exact same thing and it's a softwear update only but Vw do this for free but charge the 70 diagnostic fee for your pleasure even though I told them what was wrong with it! It will wipe any remap off your ecu to.  :happy2:
Title: Re: ECU problem continued...
Post by: TrickGTI on June 24, 2011, 06:42:24 pm
I go dig my invoice out and see if there is a recall number
Title: Re: ECU problem continued...
Post by: vRStu on June 24, 2011, 06:44:23 pm
Grr - It won't be a recall!!

Why do sooo many people fail to appreciate the difference between a recall and a campaign  :evilgrin: :happy2:

24K6 rings a bell with me but I'd have to check.
Title: Re: ECU problem continued...
Post by: TrickGTI on June 24, 2011, 06:47:39 pm
Yea I remembered it wasn't a recall after I wrote it but it's a free update anyways to resolve a problem that happens with them so it may aswell be a recall!

Anyway nothing on the invoice just says updated ecu Hope you get it sorted!
Title: Re: ECU problem continued...
Post by: vRStu on June 24, 2011, 06:49:08 pm
so it may aswell be a recall!

Why??
Title: Re: ECU problem continued...
Post by: Saint Steve on June 24, 2011, 07:02:07 pm
From memory, dealers only carried out the 24k6 update if the car was in for service.

It's not a recall.

Title: Re: ECU problem continued...
Post by: Hedge on June 24, 2011, 07:23:15 pm
I have fond memories of 24k6 as that is the one my Skoda dealer flashed onto my ECU 2 hours after I went Revo stage 2.  :fighting: :fighting:  :laugh:  :wink:
Title: Re: ECU problem continued...
Post by: keano on June 24, 2011, 07:26:24 pm
So is that the solution then guys?  :pomppomp:
Title: Re: ECU problem continued...
Post by: Saint Steve on June 24, 2011, 07:29:53 pm
Back to dealers matie :happy2:
Title: Re: ECU problem continued...
Post by: vRStu on June 24, 2011, 07:31:40 pm
The only problem is that if the dealer system VAS says your car doesn't need the update then I don't think it will allow them to do it.  If you went to another tuner they should have the correct post 24K6 file which can them be re-calibrated and flashed to the car.
Title: Re: ECU problem continued...
Post by: Saint Steve on June 24, 2011, 07:33:28 pm
Bribery then :grin:
Title: Re: ECU problem continued...
Post by: Hedge on June 24, 2011, 07:41:18 pm
I believe the dealer system could be told to do it but not without plenty of paperwork back to HQ.

Stu's idea should work provided you can find a sympathetic tuner. :happy2:
Title: Re: ECU problem continued...
Post by: vRStu on June 24, 2011, 07:43:34 pm
Not even sure you need sympathy Ian, just someone who knows what they are doing.  :evilgrin:
Title: Re: ECU problem continued...
Post by: PDT on June 24, 2011, 07:45:12 pm
Or find a friendly tuner that can update your ECU with new software :smiley:

As for the thing you mentioned about a 700k file, it could be that they are only using part files, but even then it should be a 2048k software with a part file content. I personally dont like part file read/wrire protocols.  
Title: Re: ECU problem continued...
Post by: vRStu on June 24, 2011, 07:49:11 pm
Just as a matter of interest Nick, have a look at the service book and under the boot carpet to see if there is anything about 24k6 already being done which might explain why VW think it doesn't need it because it won't be outstanding.
Title: Re: ECU problem continued...
Post by: keano on June 25, 2011, 01:21:35 pm
Whoops thought I replied.

The update has already been done guys  :sad1:

What's next you rekon?
Title: Re: ECU problem continued...
Post by: keano on June 25, 2011, 01:22:33 pm
Or find a friendly tuner that can update your ECU with new software :smiley:

As for the thing you mentioned about a 700k file, it could be that they are only using part files, but even then it should be a 2048k software with a part file content. I personally dont like part file read/wrire protocols.  

The file put on was 2048, he was very surprised when it came back as such a small file  :scared:
Title: Re: ECU problem continued...
Post by: vRStu on June 25, 2011, 01:37:43 pm
So you have the details in the service book/boot then??

If you've had the 24k6 update at the dealer and then had a remap I wouldn't be surprised if your tuner has loaded to wrong (previous) file back to the car and caused you this problem.  If you go to another tuner they ought to be able to supply the correct file.

Who mapped the car??
Title: Re: ECU problem continued...
Post by: keano on June 25, 2011, 01:44:13 pm
Chris from Tuneside. I wrote a review somewhere.

He's the moderator on the golfgtiforum.co.uk
Title: Re: ECU problem continued...
Post by: keano on June 25, 2011, 01:46:34 pm
http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,17309.msg247766.html#msg247766
Title: Re: ECU problem continued...
Post by: kalu on June 25, 2011, 07:34:10 pm
This is a known bug with MED9.1 software and VW did release updates to fix it.


**ECU update by Volkswagen (But they don't see any ECU updates on the VW computer  :stupid: )


If you have the part number of your ecu I can tell you what the latest software version is :)

Title: Re: ECU problem continued...
Post by: bacillus on June 25, 2011, 07:49:05 pm
This is a known bug with MED9.1 software and VW did release updates to fix it.


**ECU update by Volkswagen (But they don't see any ECU updates on the VW computer  :stupid: )


If you have the part number of your ecu I can tell you what the latest software version is :)

I assume he can get the number off vcds...
Title: Re: ECU problem continued...
Post by: kalu on June 25, 2011, 07:50:07 pm
Yes from VCDS or from the ECU Casing.
It will be something like 1K0907115..
Title: Re: ECU problem continued...
Post by: keano on June 25, 2011, 09:14:27 pm
"hi Nick
 
Your ECU VW part number is 1K0907115L
 
The bosch hardware number is 0261 S02 429
And finally the current software number is 1037 38 3925
 
Let me know how you get on!
Chris."
Title: Re: ECU problem continued...
Post by: kalu on June 25, 2011, 09:26:00 pm
Hello

This is old software.
Current version is:

VW Hardware Number 1K0907115L
VW Software Number 0030
Bosch Hardware Number 0261S02429
Bosch Software Number 1037386855

Unfortunately most VW techs don't understand how the update system works!

If you can find someone at the dealer who knows what they are doing they will be able to update it no problem, or any competent tuner can do it.
If you let me know where you are located I maybe able to point your in the direction of a dealer or tuner who CAN do it!
Title: Re: ECU problem continued...
Post by: keano on June 25, 2011, 09:45:06 pm
Wow thankyou  :happy2:

I'm in Doncaster south Yorkshire :)
Title: Re: ECU problem continued...
Post by: kalu on June 25, 2011, 10:00:45 pm
Most of the guys I know in dealers and in the South / London.
Try Ben@Shark Performance, he should be able to do it.

Title: Re: ECU problem continued...
Post by: keano on June 26, 2011, 10:27:43 am
My dear dad's friend, who was an aircraft engineer and now works as an ECU diagnostic chappy has just been round and removed the ECU and sent it away for analysis.

Should hopefully hear how it is tomorrow, but as for now, the car is as dead as a dodo.  :grin:

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dreamstime.com%2Fvery-funny-toon-dodo-bird-thumb18001466.jpg&hash=f5b98975f05162f582675dff60a211dda2eadbab)
Title: Re: ECU problem continued...
Post by: gulfstream11 on June 26, 2011, 11:22:52 am
On my way to Retford in a bit.. Gonna do a drive by to P1ss you off... :driver:
Title: Re: ECU problem continued...
Post by: keano on June 26, 2011, 11:25:00 am
Haha!! I'll just lay one of these out when I see you coming!  :grin:

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm2.static.flickr.com%2F1371%2F3266702451_09eea09059_z.jpg%3Fzz%3D1&hash=290b4912de01208302f51da67583be4833c726ba)

EDIT: Then throw another pot of 'tar' over your car.
Title: Re: ECU problem continued...
Post by: gulfstream11 on June 26, 2011, 11:26:34 am
 :signLOL: :signLOL:  :notworthy:
Title: Re: ECU problem continued...
Post by: bacillus on June 26, 2011, 12:39:29 pm
tar spelt backwards is rat...   :laugh:
Title: Re: ECU problem continued...
Post by: keano on June 29, 2011, 03:20:31 pm
Little Update:

Turns out the ECU has a memory fault.

It has been sent away again to Coventry  :sad1:
Title: Re: ECU problem update. 1 step forward, falling down the stairs back...
Post by: keano on July 05, 2011, 09:11:25 pm
Okay. Think the ECU is flumped now.  :sad1:

Having it put back on the car and having it updated AGAIN by Flumpswagen Volkswagen. If that doesn't work it's time for a new one.

Technician at the ECU place(s) says it's to do with the memory, and the problems lies with the Eproms?

Any experience? Or donations?  :grin:

Nick  :happy2:
Title: Re: ECU problem continued...
Post by: vRStu on July 05, 2011, 09:22:12 pm
Nick

I think you had your best advice above and chose to ignore it.

This was/is a known issue with VW.
Title: Re: ECU problem continued...
Post by: keano on July 05, 2011, 09:23:48 pm
That was the first thing I did mate after I read it. It's been done twice now  :drinking:
Title: Re: ECU problem continued...
Post by: vRStu on July 05, 2011, 09:26:09 pm
So have you been to or sent it to an independent tuner such as one of the ones already mentioned here?
Title: Re: ECU problem continued...
Post by: keano on July 05, 2011, 09:28:25 pm
I wen't back to VW as soon as I read the messages In this thread yes, for the update. (And my tuner before that)

If It doesn't resolve again tomorrow, I'll book an appointment with Dave at PDT before I start looking at new units.

Makes much more sense i guess
Title: Re: ECU problem continued...
Post by: vRStu on July 05, 2011, 09:31:05 pm
I think so.  These ECU's are very widely used and generally reliable.  I'd hate to think you'd coughed circa £500 for an ECU you didn't need.
Title: Re: ECU problem continued...
Post by: keano on July 05, 2011, 09:32:46 pm
I'd hate it too  :grin:

Ben @ Shark is only 45 minutes away so I will pop him an email.

Thanks for your help again Stu, and everyone above.

 :notworthy:
Title: Re: ECU problem continued...
Post by: vRStu on July 05, 2011, 09:41:00 pm
No problem mate, I hope you get it sorted.

I know Ben can handle it as I scanned a local to me customers car for him a while back with the same issue.  :happy2:
Title: Re: ECU problem continued...
Post by: kalu on July 06, 2011, 12:03:11 am
There is really no need to replace the ecu as it is 100% a software problem.
Title: Re: ECU problem continued...
Post by: TrickGTI on July 06, 2011, 07:31:03 am
Ben at shark is a very helpful chap and so is dave at PDT so either of them will get it sorted I'm sure!
Title: Re: ECU problem continued...
Post by: keano on July 06, 2011, 06:31:32 pm
ECU back on the car. It runs fine, as it did before, but still has the faults.

Booked in at VW on saturday morning for the update of the update.

And booked in with a VERY helpful and polite Ben from SharkPerformance next Saturday, assuming there is still a problem :chicken:

Ps. Having an unmapped car is rubbish!  :grin:
Title: Re: ECU problem continued...
Post by: vRStu on July 06, 2011, 06:56:42 pm
Surely you could save yourself some time and labour charges just by heading up to Ben??

If VW flash it then you'll only have it flashed again with a remap so you may as well cut out the middle man.
Title: Re: ECU problem continued...
Post by: Andy on July 06, 2011, 06:59:34 pm
you beat me to it Stu :pomppomp:
Title: Re: ECU problem continued...
Post by: keano on July 06, 2011, 07:03:05 pm
Surely you could save yourself some time and labour charges just by heading up to Ben??

If VW flash it then you'll only have it flashed again with a remap so you may as well cut out the middle man.

2 reasons.

 Ben recommended it.

 My dads best friend's friend is the service manager at VW Sheffield so will hopefully be free of cost.

Method in my madness! :booty:
Title: Re: ECU problem continued...
Post by: vRStu on July 06, 2011, 07:03:48 pm
Understood - Keep us posted with progress then  :happy2:
Title: Re: ECU problem continued... RESOLVED :D
Post by: keano on July 12, 2011, 09:06:10 pm
FIXED!!!

Wahoo!

Had the car back from Sheffield Volkswagen this afternoon.

The car has been on the diagnostics and had the essential update applied (that it has already been stamped for!  :stupid: ).

This has cleared all of my faults and made the car hunky dory again.

Just in time I guess..... the car is booked in for a PDT remap on Saturday  :grin: :grin:

Thanks a million to all the guys that have helped me out. I'd have been in a tramp shelter, skint, hugging a new ECU if it wasn't for you guys.  :notworthy:

Nick

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm7.static.flickr.com%2F6016%2F5930887625_6a6f4c7e6f_b.jpg&hash=455c080408c2ed76a06644340f1a22f70625179d)

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm7.static.flickr.com%2F6134%2F5931446544_1487059ea0_b.jpg&hash=c9c281eeab4d148e225fb26e956b2ad8ee1b0ec0)

Title: Re: ECU problem continued...
Post by: vRStu on July 12, 2011, 09:06:53 pm
Good news then - Nice one  :happy2:
Title: Re: ECU problem continued...
Post by: keano on July 12, 2011, 09:07:26 pm
Good news then - Nice one  :happy2:

Yes mate. Thank you!  :happy2:
Title: Re: ECU problem continued...
Post by: dmac1969 on July 12, 2011, 09:07:49 pm
Excellent result mate , chuffed for you , enjoy your remap!  :driver:
Title: Re: ECU problem continued...
Post by: Andy on July 12, 2011, 09:12:27 pm
Glad its all sorted,see you sat
Title: Re: ECU problem continued...
Post by: Hedge on July 12, 2011, 09:31:22 pm
Nice to hear. VW dealer comes up trumps.  :happy2:
Title: Re: ECU problem continued...
Post by: keano on July 12, 2011, 09:31:27 pm
Glad its all sorted,see you sat

Oooh didn't realise you were going Maxi.  :happy2:

I'll be there with the mardy SWMBO  :grin: Not impressed I'm dragging her up there!  :grin:
Title: Re: ECU problem continued...
Post by: Andy on July 12, 2011, 09:37:28 pm
I should be there just after 1 for the r/r meet
Title: Re: ECU problem continued...
Post by: bacillus on July 12, 2011, 09:37:51 pm
Great to hear that it's been sorted...   :happy2:
Title: Re: ECU problem continued...
Post by: Saint Steve on July 13, 2011, 02:13:12 pm
Great news Nick  :happy2:
Title: Re: ECU problem continued...
Post by: keano on July 13, 2011, 03:01:28 pm
Great news Nick  :happy2:

That it is! Are you coming to the pdt meet?
Title: Re: ECU problem continued...
Post by: Saint Steve on July 13, 2011, 03:24:18 pm
if its this saturdee nick, im either getting My Red lump detailed (weather depending) , or at Castle Coombe race curcuit for some Audi/VW gathering :grin:
Title: Re: ECU problem continued...
Post by: shark_90 on July 13, 2011, 04:15:49 pm
I take it I should remove your booking from the calendar then Nick?  :laugh:
Title: Re: ECU problem continued...
Post by: heavyd on July 13, 2011, 04:24:57 pm
At least you got it sorted :happy2:
Which car are you getting mapped on Saturday then?

I take it I should remove your booking from the calendar then Nick?  :laugh:
Strange to see you over this neck of the woods Ben :drinking:
Title: Re: ECU problem continued...
Post by: keano on July 13, 2011, 04:52:55 pm
At least you got it sorted :happy2:
Which car are you getting mapped on Saturday then?

I take it I should remove your booking from the calendar then Nick?  :laugh:
Strange to see you over this neck of the woods Ben :drinking:

They Ed.30 Mr.Heavy.

Will you be in attendance?
Title: Re: ECU problem continued...
Post by: heavyd on July 13, 2011, 05:12:25 pm
Yep :happy2:
Goin to see if the shark map keeps up with the revo folk :rolleye:
Title: Re: ECU problem continued...
Post by: shark_90 on July 13, 2011, 05:31:42 pm
Strange to see you over this neck of the woods Ben :drinking:

Yes mate, something I'm hoping to rectify  :happy2:

Everyone keeps telling me I should be on here and so I'll aim to be over here more often  :smiley:
Title: Re: ECU problem continued...
Post by: Hedge on July 13, 2011, 05:40:21 pm
You at Castle Combe this weekend Ben? :smiley:
Title: Re: ECU problem continued...
Post by: shark_90 on July 13, 2011, 06:18:37 pm
You at Castle Combe this weekend Ben? :smiley:

Unfortunately not mate, working all hours to get the new unit up and running and expecting a "large" delivery next week ;)
Title: Re: ECU problem continued...
Post by: Janner_Sy on July 13, 2011, 06:25:22 pm
You at Castle Combe this weekend Ben? :smiley:

Unfortunately not mate, working all hours to get the new unit up and running and expecting a "large" delivery next week ;)

Crate of coke :grin:
Title: Re: ECU problem continued...
Post by: heavyd on July 13, 2011, 06:51:38 pm
Master cylinders? :signLOL:
Title: Re: ECU problem continued...
Post by: Hedge on July 13, 2011, 08:50:55 pm
You at Castle Combe this weekend Ben? :smiley:

Unfortunately not mate, working all hours to get the new unit up and running and expecting a "large" delivery next week ;)

Crate of coke :grin:

Shame. Hope that crate of coke isn't coming from Columbia.....  :signLOL:
Title: Re: ECU problem continued...
Post by: shark_90 on July 13, 2011, 10:10:08 pm
I don't know what you mean Hedge  :innocent:

And Dom.. don't get me started!  :P
Title: Re: ECU problem continued...
Post by: heavyd on July 13, 2011, 11:13:11 pm
I don't know what you mean Hedge  :innocent:

And Dom.. don't get me started!  :P
:laugh: