MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: heavyd on August 14, 2011, 02:47:00 pm
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I've been going though a lot of oil lately, used a litre in 3 weeks,roughly 600miles. There isnt any leaks anywhere, but there are a lot of black dots on my rear bumper, any ideas? turbo seals?
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I'm just guessing here, so don't get too panicked, but could be turbo seal on it's way out. Has the turbo got louder at all? Less serious alternatives could be something as simple as a leaking sump plug. Have a check underneath to see if you can see if there's any oil anywhere. Has the car been serviced recently?
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turbo isnt any louder, but there iasnt any traces of oil anywhere under the car at al
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That is quite a lot, how many miles per litre were you geting before?
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That is quite a lot, how many miles per litre were you geting before?
Yeah but if he took it to VW they would probably say it's within their limits i.e. 600 miles/litre max
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Its still a bit worrying though!!
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Its still a bit worrying though!!
mine did this, after only topping it up to 1/2 way between 1/2 n max it stopped. ave a feeling it was burning it off.
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Compression test would be a good start Dom. Not a Halfords £20 type tool, a leakdown test.
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My old gti munched a litre every 1000 miles, a few people on here had it worse,
saying that my new gti hasnt used any yet !
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I only filled it the day before the Rr day dave, went on hols for a week, checked it Friday and it was below minimum :stupid:
Think I've got a wheelbearing on it's way out now aswell :sad1:
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Does the car smoke slightly on idle? Or on over run?
Most of the time its turbo, then stem seals, then rings. Worth seeing how caked up the plugs are if at all.
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Hi Heavyd, i agree with what your saying here,for a month or two there my gti has also been sore on oil too,took it to stealers and they inspected it and came back to say "it is within the normal running perimmiters of the car" not quite sure what that means lol but there was no leaks so look forward to your out come for this post thanks Dougie
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How much were you using before? If your running more boost you will use a little more oil but unless someone knows different I believe that's beyond VAG limits.
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Does the car smoke slightly on idle? Or on over run?
Most of the time its turbo, then stem seals, then rings. Worth seeing how caked up the plugs are if at all.
there isnt any smoke at all on idle, them when you drive, occasionally theres a large cloud :confused:
Plugs dont look very healthy IMO, but I'm no expert!
Could it be anything to do with the high boost at 3000rpm?
This is how bad the tailgate and bumper is
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fb150%2Fheavyd123%2Fphoto.jpg&hash=264ea2d7c11000086aba4cf1ccfb8d112932c71f)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fb150%2Fheavyd123%2Flessboostmap.jpg&hash=a5605f5308be5012c42da49c92bd67ac0852996a)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fb150%2Fheavyd123%2FIMG_0408.jpg&hash=78fc05e525147744db5a581c1b991bdde962b02b)
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Yikes looks like most of it flying out the back of the exhaust then! :confused:
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Out of interest what heat range are the plugs?
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Is the smoke white, blue or black? When does the smoke happen? When you boot it?
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Could it be anything to do with the high boost at 3000rpm?
Now that's a spike! :happy2:
But 1.8 bar would worry me.
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Is the smoke white, blue or black? When does the smoke happen? When you boot it?
It seems like its black, and yes, when I boot it is when I get the cloud. Thing is, over the last three weeks I've been driving like miss daisy apart from about 5 datalogging runs :stupid: and I've still used all that oil
Out of interest what heat range are the plugs?
Theyre the ones the dealer gave me for free when they decided not to change them when it was serviced, sure theyre 7, only fitted them in february
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That does not look good bud,my car does not put any specks out on the body work at all just seems to use it. Strange!!! i sure hope you get to the bottom of it m8 and it does not cost a packet to fix
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I hope so aswell, the cheapest k04 turbo I can find is £1390 exc fitting :confused:
Think I'm going to try a stock map to see if that makes any difference
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I hope so aswell, the cheapest k04 turbo I can find is £1390 exc fitting :confused:
Think I'm going to try a stock map to see if that makes any difference
They do pop up in the classifieds at good prices ussually the £600 mark, hope you get to the bottom of it. Its frustrating as hell when you cherish and spend so much money on your car and it doesnt run right.
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Are you sure you don't have a diesel engine? :innocent:
Has it got progressively worse or just happened since a map?
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Are you sure you don't have a diesel engine? :innocent:
Has it got progressively worse or just happened since a map?
Funny enough, I switched to a stock map, had my brother follow me down the road, and he said it looked like it was a diesel, as there was plumes of black smoke pouring out :sick:
Its been smoking a bit since april, but only on WOT. But now bumper gets full of black dots after a 5mile run, and also I get random black smoke screens in my rear view mirror whilst driving down the road.
Might just do a trade in at the dealers................
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That would be a shame, you've got a nice looking car there :sad1:
If you did decide to keep it a basic compression test carried out by a garage would be a cheap and easy way to determine the health of the engine, but obviously not the turbo.
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That would be a shame, you've got a nice looking car there :sad1:
If you did decide to keep it a basic compression test carried out by a garage would be a cheap and easy way to determine the health of the engine, but obviously not the turbo.
What answers would it give?
Oil passing rings?
Oil passing through Gasket?
Are there any other causes that could be flagged up?
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Black smoke is fuel hence why your plugs are so damn black. The spots are caused when the unburnt fuel mixes with the condensation in the exhaust.
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It would basically determine what pressure the cylinder can hold, if the pressure peaks high enough it would mean piston rings and stem seals are ok, This would then point to the turbo.
It's strange because the spike in your boost logs does not show on your Dyno, has the map been altered since the PDT Dyno?
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Had another 3 maps since the PDtuning day :signLOL:
I'm supposed to be getting it setup next week on the dyno down at shark if the tuner comes over from Finland.
I'll head to some garages next week hopefully, as I'm stuck at work all day this week.
I thought black smoke was fuel, but then I thought it must have been linked to the oil usage. But then again, would oil coming out of the turbo through the exhaust and not being burnt be black? as when it goes through the pistons and gets burnt it would be blue?
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If the turbo seals go and oil goes into the exhaust then you will get clouds of white smoke.
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If the turbo seals go and oil goes into the exhaust then you will get clouds of white smoke.
Thanks alex, will look into fuelling system now :happy2:
I've put the PDtuning map on now, so I'll see if its the shark maps that are overfuelling before I go onto the hardware.
So its looking like the turbo may be ok after all then :stupid:
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I'm personally not thinking turbo, they usually go big style and give a high pitched whine and lots of white smoke, hence why i would do the compression test.
It doesn't look like fuel as AFR is fine and let's face it the oil is going somewhere. Does it idle ok?
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It idles fine with no smoke, runs fine aswell, just smokes like a chipped diesel!
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If the turbo seals are slightly off then you will get smoke at idle. Stem seals are blue smoke also at idle mainly after a run, then rings are blue smoke generally on over run. Stem seals are sh*te on the vag range and so are the exhaust guides.
The oil is going somewhere and the only options are turbo, rings and stem seals if there are no obvious leaks and you are using a fair amount of oil too.
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I trust have you cleaned all your plugs as fouled plugs dont spark and would cause the fuel not to ignite. Also to consider is your MAF/LAMBDA sensor might be starting to fail, as overfueling is sign of that. Might be an idea to try one that you know is working to see if that helps.
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I just put the plugs straight back in :rolleye:
I've still got the plugs I took out the other month which were fine, might try those in, I've also got a spare Maf, as I replaced that in january aswell.
I wonder if its worth switching back to the new OEM hpfp I have aswell, and taking the APR one off. I have noticed that the PDT map is less smokey than the Shark maps that I have been running. I wonder if its worth my while trying to get a full stock map on the car to see how that goes, as the stock one that shark provided me feels more like a stage 1 map :confused:
When I checked the oil last night, ive used up around 250ml in 100 miles :scared:
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When I checked the oil last night, ive used up around 250ml in 100 miles :scared:
That's why your plugs are fouled. Were all the plugs black like that?
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Looking like stem seals or rings. You need to get a cylinder leak down test done on the car.
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That's alot of oil in 100 miles... :surprised:
You've checked the oil cap for sludge? There defo no oil leaks anywhere? Get someone to drive behind you and boot it/over run... You'd would notice blue smoke if coming through the engine/exhaust... with it burning this much surely!!
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Well I managed to find a garage that can do a leakdown test 40mile away, so at least I can rule that out on Monday. Hope it's nothing to do with the remap. I was running very high timing pull for a while, hope it isn't that whats done the damage.
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I wouldnt worry about the map as others have the same map with no issues. Its one of the many pitfalls of modifying when things go wrong :sad1: If its is running rich I would check the Lambda value as my old FRS had a similar issue and it was that. Just worth checking absolutely everything before spending big cash. The oil usage could be a red herring.
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Nobody else has the k04 version I've got mate, I'm onto my 9th version of it now, and was due to go back next week to get it done properly on the dyno. afr is only in the 11's the last time I logged it
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Im sure Ben will sort you out mate. He's a top bloke and nothing is ever too much trouble. Overlooked that you had a K04...my bad!
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@heavyd , if its oil useage then could this not be something to do with the crankcase breathing ? Some fault with the pcv ? Something sending oil into the cylinder ? Although I suppose it would get burnt then though. If it is something more sinister then what intake are you running ? Particularly what filter ?
Chris.
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I put a new PVC on the other month, I'm running a forge twintake. I might just bite the bullet and make the long drive down to backdraft and let them sort it out, rather than using a smaller garage, at least they have some experience with the engine. Don't know of any garages up here that could do the work. :confused:
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Dom, I have a copy of your standard map and a leakdown tester.
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Dom, that Stock map you have is 100% stock. If the car is still black smoking (overfuelling) with that on, then you have a problem somewhere else that we need to find.
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i seem to burn a lot of oil also but not as much as that.
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Well I managed to find a garage that can do a leakdown test 40mile away, so at least I can rule that out on Monday. Hope it's nothing to do with the remap. I was running very high timing pull for a while, hope it isn't that whats done the damage.
hi mate sorry to hear about your oil consumption issues , you mentioned high timing pull? what map were you running to get that? and how did you get the timing pull to calm down ? do you have any logs that i can look at ? would like to compare them to my high titming pull logs before i go bang :rolleye:
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Dom, that Stock map you have is 100% stock. If the car is still black smoking (overfuelling) with that on, then you have a problem somewhere else that we need to find.
Swapped it last night to your stock map, and its still smoking :sad1:
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Did some datalogging with the stock map on, Boost and fuel pump seem fine, but it seems to have a lot of timing pull at lower RPM, and also the AFR looks lean? I wonder if the smoke on teh stock map is coming from the engine trying to richen the burn up?
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fb150%2Fheavyd123%2Fstockmap1.jpg&hash=7ae3db19400cbf85319a7f493073ed1e0984921a)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fb150%2Fheavyd123%2Fstockmap2.jpg&hash=e03f5c8fe22d28b4f2d3a037ba27bcb7cf0e8285)
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Stock map should run that lean as it doesn't produce much boost, power or high EGTs.
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If its running rich on the stock map Id say it was your lambda sensor as that causes overfueling.
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how do you work out your AFR? what blocks dod you log for it? and whay a high number and low number is?
i have a feeling mines running very lean , can you please tell me what a standard AFR and a stage 1 AFR should be please.
thanks guys :wink:
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you need to log block 31, then multiply the lambda actual value by 14.7.
From what I've read on here by using the 'SEARCH' function, 2.0 tfsi are supposed to run at around 12, but thats only from what I've read......
the lowest afr I had(rich) was 9.55,highest Ive had is in teh above logs.
Might be me worth buying a new lambda sensor then
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you need to log block 31, then multiply the lambda actual value by 14.7.
From what I've read on here by using the 'SEARCH' function, 2.0 tfsi are supposed to run at around 12, but thats only from what I've read......
the lowest afr I had(rich) was 9.55,highest Ive had is in teh above logs.
Might be me worth buying a new lambda sensor then
thanks for your help mate , really appreciate it
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Might be me worth buying a new lambda sensor then
why would you want to do that? None of your logs indicate you are running rich, you are using oil at an alarming rate whilst puffing smoke out, don't you think the two go hand in hand? get the leak down test done and go from there. Why waste money on guessing.
Sorry to be blunt Dom but you may need that cash at a later date :happy2:
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It just seemed to make sense that black smoke = overfuelling, fuel pump logs look ok, but I'm still running rich on a stock map. If theres too much fuel going in the cylinders, any oil in the cylinders is being washed away by all the excess fuel, so this coud cause black smoke and high oil usage issues??
Ive being phoning PDtuning for the last 3 days trying to get a leakdown test done, but no-one answers the phone!
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Faulty lambda (sensor 2) brings / has brought up a dash light on mine.
I get quite a few black specs on the tailgate too
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Ive had the 2nd lambda sensor mapped out though, it usually is on stage 2/2+/3 remaps. I used to get the CEL light on every 3 days or so!
A few black specs would be aceptable on a remapped car, \but I'm getting them with a stock map on my car :stupid:
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Ive had the 2nd lambda sensor mapped out though, it usually is on stage 2/2+/3 remaps. I used to get the CEL light on every 3 days or so!
A few black specs would be aceptable on a remapped car, \but I'm getting them with a stock map on my car :stupid:
Got you. Awesome never added the Map for getting rid of the light on my 2+ APR map, even after I had the decat. Gits.
I never got the light before the decat. I replaced the cat for MOT/TUV and still get the light, vcds says sensor 2 lambda. Overheated I think.
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Your logs show you are running a lot leaner with stock map than the remap. I have read posts on the k03 that stock on that is about 10.5:1 @ WOT Redline (I cannot check this without loading stock map on), I don't know about k04.
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It just seemed to make sense that black smoke = overfuelling, fuel pump logs look ok, but I'm still running rich on a stock map. If theres too much fuel going in the cylinders, any oil in the cylinders is being washed away by all the excess fuel, so this coud cause black smoke and high oil usage issues??
Ive being phoning PDtuning for the last 3 days trying to get a leakdown test done, but no-one answers the phone!
Are you running a catch can?
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No. Ive thought about getting one, but wast sure if they were worth the money or not. There seem to be pros and cons about them, Ive also read that if you use decent oil and fuel theres no need for one :confused:
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i asked incase your can required frequent emptying with oil..
I dont believe in them either :happy2:
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I wouldn't be paying any attention to the maps if your using these amounts of oil,running rich isn't going to have an affect on oil usage it's either turbo,valve stem seals or piston rings
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Agree with the above,know mine is a soot chucker but mine was splattering the back end of the car with a lot of black speckales when my turbo went,think I would get that checked first
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Oh well, had the leakdown test done today, and at least the piston rings are ok. Still havent found the problem yet :stupid: but at least thats the biggest one out of the way with........
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Dom, take the car for a good hard drive and get it nice and hot. Let it sit at idle for about 1-2 mins then rev it hard in neutral, see if you get a cloud from the exhaust, if so it could point to turbo oil seals.
I still cant 100% rule out a breather issue either. I have had cars in that use a lot less oil than yours but still have oil consumption problems and they smoke a fair amount, on the test drive in yours today thete wasnt much smoke at all.
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Oh well, had the leakdown test done today, and at least the piston rings are ok. Still havent found the problem yet :stupid: but at least thats the biggest one out of the way with........
Brill news! At least you don't have to strip the car down and it shouldn't be too expensive.
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I phoned dubtek and they haven't got any bsh pcv kits in stock, but I'm going to get one when they're in stock. I didn't get any smoke on the way to work either, sods law!
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Maybe the overpriced snap-on leakdown tester fixted it :laugh:
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Dom, take the car for a good hard drive and get it nice and hot. Let it sit at idle for about 1-2 mins then rev it hard in neutral, see if you get a cloud from the exhaust, if so it could point to turbo oil seals.
I still cant 100% rule out a breather issue either. I have had cars in that use a lot less oil than yours but still have oil consumption problems and they smoke a fair amount, on the test drive in yours today thete wasnt much smoke at all.
I did that idle test thing today. It did make a cloud, but it was black smoke that wasn't oily, still no blue or White smoke. Going to wait if the bsh pcv fix makes any difference before I spend big££££s.
It was throwing some nice clouds out on the way back from shark hq today again!
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What did the visit show up
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Lots of cups of teas, a reprogrammed sts, hospitality, friendly banter, and Ben reckons its only unburnt fuel - buy a PCV fix kit, doesnt think its the turbo, same concluson as Dave at PDT really :popcornsoda:
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Hopefully pcv will sort it then. You not have a spin on the dyno? That twin fan they have looks the nuts, prob make the street lights dim when they turn that on :grin:
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Yep, he switched it on to show the power! They have got some kick when you stand in front of them :notworthy: There was too much stuff about, work getting done on the unit to be honest, he asked if I was going to the Rr day, I'm off that weekend, so probably go on them then
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This is a dyno fan.......... :laugh:
did you try the suggestion I posted above dom?
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This is a dyno fan.......... :laugh:
did you try the suggestion I posted above dom?
Yes dave, about 3 posts back,...I did that idle test thing today. It did make a cloud, but it was black smoke that wasn't oily, still no blue or White smoke??
Watched that youtube video, at least Dastek are good at making something Dave :laugh:
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Oh well, good news is oil level didnt go down and covered over 400 miles, bad news is PCV fix didnt stop black smoke, still chucking out random plumes of black soot :sick:
Even worse still, I had some timing taken out of the map the other week because of the high timing pull, went to a RR day today, and have managed to lose 60bhp and 40lbsft of torque :sad1: :sad1: :sad1:
from this
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fb150%2Fheavyd123%2FBRAKEKIL.gif&hash=0c24d5ae1d8d945fe2725836d2fbd8409f427f52)
to this :surprised:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fb150%2Fheavyd123%2F7bbcebe4.jpg&hash=1fa3f3acc03f5701ba7d5ced5dd7a4f23b54c728)
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Oh well, good news is oil level didnt go down and covered over 400 miles, bad news is PCV fix didnt stop black smoke, still chucking out random plumes of black soot :sick:
Even worse still, I had some timing taken out of the map the other week because of the high timing pull, went to a RR day today, and have managed to lose 60bhp and 40lbsft of torque :sad1: :sad1: :sad1:
from this
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fb150%2Fheavyd123%2FBRAKEKIL.gif&hash=0c24d5ae1d8d945fe2725836d2fbd8409f427f52)
to this :surprised:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fb150%2Fheavyd123%2F7bbcebe4.jpg&hash=1fa3f3acc03f5701ba7d5ced5dd7a4f23b54c728)
:surprised: :confused:
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I'm sitting here wondering whether or not to switch to another one of my maps that hasnt had loads of timing taken out to see if that makes better power whilst the RR day is on :stupid: :stupid: :stupid:
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I'm sitting here wondering whether or not to switch to another one of my maps that hasnt had loads of timing taken out to see if that makes better power whilst the RR day is on :stupid: :stupid: :stupid:
You'll probably only wonder if u don't
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What sort of cooling setup was used during the run? Thats a massive difference between the two runs but all of the calcs used on tne dyno are identical.
Still got our stg2 to compare?
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Oh well, curiousity got the better of me :laugh:
The fan was the same box as what you have got Dave.
The place was closing, so I could only se the maps that were on my sts device, so I had another stage 3 that made 317bhp and 280lb/ft at RStuning full of confidence I loaded it on and headed back and it did this
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fb150%2Fheavyd123%2Fdbd8d079.jpg&hash=8d9ed03dfa8142c28e80b4e842359d73279e53d3)
So I put his dyno into question :wink:, and he ran a stock map run to prove his dyno worthy :notworthy:
The result was, in stock mode, 235bhp and 250lb/ft of torque, which to all my knowledge is spot on.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fb150%2Fheavyd123%2Fc5ecc6f1.jpg&hash=d2894e245f04275efbfebf882478206a871a1b0b)
If it had something wrong, surely the stock run would have been missing some horses aswell?
It was an Evo tuning place, and he suggested that theres no way that my car could have made 350bhp anyway, 300 is the max, and no way mechanical fuel pump can possibly give an extra 50bhp :signLOL:
He just knows how to use a dyno better than other places do :popcornsoda:
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How many stage 3 maps have you had on the car???
Stock run seems spot on, with your build spec you should be seeing 350/350 easily (even if it's not an Evo) Your car has shown that it can do it as it has made it before but something is seriously odd with these figures, it's making less than a stock car with a stage 1 map :stupid:
Want to test it on the Dyno for a like for like test?
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Theres something amiss with your car big style.
Bluefin gave you really low figures, Revo map gives you fault codes galore, shark wouldnt work with your dsg at first, sorted that car running really well but only until you had the revo dsg remap and again car spits its dummy out, with weird timing pull but with no map change etc, it then starts eating oil and smoking.
You mmust hve an underlying issue somehere with your car, or some rare gremlin, otherwise there wouldnt be such differences on previous maps etc.
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Shame that you switched from Revo now that the 'rich at idle' issue has been resolved.
If you need any help finding what's wrong I'm back to work on Tuesday :happy2:
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Thinking about it 235hp would be low given your mods.
An intake should easily provide 10hp minimum on a stock car, then you have a full TBE which should easily add another say 10hp. Then the IC, fuell pump etc, etc. With those mods you should have been closer to 250hp stock. So if its under reading by around 20hp it wouldnt be as bad as you are showing. You'd still be down on whats expected but not by so much.
Also bear in mind the 348hp was on pdts rollers which does appear to yield around 10-igher figures looking at comparable cars on surrey and jkms DD rollers. Maybe this one is a bit tighter as well.
Think your still down on power, but maybe not aas bad as you might think
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I dyno tested 3 stock cars today, PD140 golf which made 143hp, polo 1.9pd100 which made 102hp and a stock 135i which made 304hp so dyno is reading pretty close to what it should. Last week a Seat Leon 240 tfsi made 238hp.
Dynodynamics dynos read pretty much the same accross the board, you just cant win though, one day someone claims that dyno X reads too low and the next day someone says it reads too high.
Doms car should make 350/350 easily, but stg2+ does give a wide range of numbers, anything from 330-380 has been seen. I think Dom has had a rough ride with things lately with the issues of dead brakes, high timing pull, low power, clouds of smoke, using oil....... Somethings not quite right somewhere. Apart from the infamous Revo idle fault code Doms car ran perfectly with their STG2+
I think the car needs some stock logs taken and then a full day on the dyno to get the car right and building a good stg2+ map, if there is an underlying issue then this will show it up. Switching maps every 5 mins and testing on various different dynos will just cloud the facts, just a shame its taking so long with so many stumbling blocks with his current setup.
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Yep, something is really strange. its the 9th stage 3 map I've had now :drinking:
There was a new shape leon cupra on the rollers before mine at that dyno, and it made 5bhp over stock power with no mods. When I had it on PDTs roller before in stock mode it made 245bhp
Its really driving up teh wall this car now, I would sell it, if I hadnt got evrything else the way I want in, it has all the optional extras fitted etc etc I would only go and buy another Ed30 anyway if I sell it.
I'm going to wait and see what Ben says first Dave. I've spent a small fortune on Dyno runs now :laugh:
I think he said he took 12degress of timing out of the map its running now compared to the 348bhp map, but dont know what that relates to :stupid:
Yep, shame that Revo werent willing to sort the map out when I had it on before. I could always sell the HPFP and get Revo stage 2 while its £100 off :signLOL:
I'
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More remaps than I've had hot dinners! Lol
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You should have left it as it was before the dsg remap i think. Good figures, no timing pull, no issues etc.
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Did they take a boost reading? Something's very wrong there whether it's a leak or similar. Shame it all worked fine before/immediately after the dsg map. I really don't think it's a software issue with the results that car gave previously.
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12degress of timing out of the map its running now compared to the 348bhp map, but dont know what that relates to :stupid:
12 degrees of timing is massive, at full load a stg2+ sees 25ish degrees of advance. If an engine is running MBT (minimum best timing, i.e the perfect amount of timing) then taking 1 degree out can cause a drop of 8hp easily. 12 degrees can drop 30-50hp easily but it will be massively retarded and cause high combustion temps.
Log the actual spark advance under load, see how many degrees its advancing under full load. You will be looking for 23-26 degrees.
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You should have left it as it was before the dsg remap i think. Good figures, no timing pull, no issues etc.
Hindsight is a fine thing :wink:
It was all ok before I had the Revo DSG done, thats where all the extra revisions came from the aftermath
Did they take a boost reading? Something's very wrong there whether it's a leak or similar. Shame it all worked fine before/immediately after the dsg map. I really don't think it's a software issue with the results that car gave previously.
I havent got a boost gauge Ben, so theres no T for the boost unfortunately
The logs show that the car seems to be making boost ok? Shame I didnt get it on the rollers when I was down at HQ :sad1:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fb150%2Fheavyd123%2Fnewlogs-1.jpg&hash=bc91e13dce3595448d631ec3f87a0ec5276b6872)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fb150%2Fheavyd123%2Fnewlogs2-1.jpg&hash=4a1f54a15f17c40d3dd5dbfd6f4c09731032f152)
Log the actual spark advance under load, see how many degrees its advancing under full load. You will be looking for 23-26 degrees.
[/quote]
Which block would I need to be looking at for that Dave?
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Block 003 for ignition timing. :smiley:
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Heres a timing log then :happy2:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fb150%2Fheavyd123%2Ftiming.jpg&hash=76a81a4f4f78f41d620d544502c01cb9cc6e8823)
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I don't know how accurate the MAF to BHP conversion factor of 0.8 is, but if it's applied to your peak reading of say 249, then you're only at 311bhp!
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It is getting very lean at high rpm and the ECU is pulling back, look at the throttle angle.
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Logs all match up with the power figures you saw today, ECU is pulling back as martziniuk said. Something odd is going on with the timing, should see a steady figure of 20+ degrees under load but all of the logs I have show Timing BTDC but yours shows ATDC (before top dead centre and after top dead centre) so not sure if these numbers are correct or not.
As a test can you flash the stg2 that you have and log all of the blocks as you have done above and the intake air temp block. I know that stg2 map inside out and know exactly what the log should show.
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Thanks Dave, will flash that file tomorrow and go for a brisk run after work :laugh:
I checked some old logs and they showed BTDC aswell?
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So if one set of logs show btdc and another atdc how do you compare timing, or isnt it possible to comparable
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ATDC means that its logging the retardation of the spark (i think, not really used ATDC in vagcom as its a bit pointless)
heres a copy of what sort of figures you should see in the ign log:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fvv184%2Famyhedley1%2Fspark.jpg&hash=ef4807339d322c1ad8cd32b509057d856b84ac22)
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So if one set of logs show btdc and another atdc how do you compare timing, or isnt it possible to comparable
spark timing should always be BDTC at the point of optimum cylinder pressure i.e the piston has compressed the air and fuel mixture in the combustion chamber and both intake and exhaust valves are closed. The piston is at its highest point in its stroke at TDC (top dead centre).
Fuel takes time to burn so you need to ignite it at a point before TDC so that when the piston is at TDC the combustion is at maximum pressure (the explosion is at its most potent) so that it pushes the piston down with as much force as possible. The point of ignition must be before the piston reaches TDC so its known and measured in degrees before TDC (using crankshaft degrees as a reference)
Heres where the fun starts, if you over advance the ign timing then the peak pressure happens before the piston gets to TDC so as the crank is forcing the piston up the cylinder, the pressure is trying to push it down. This causes 'knock' as the piston rocks around in the cylinder on the axis of the gudgeon pin (pin that holds the piston to the conrod) as it cant control its direction of movement.
If you under advance (retard) the ign timing the maximum point of pressure happens after the point of TDC and the piston is already on its way back down the cylinder so the pressure dissipates and the piston doesnt get the same amount of 'push' back down the bore = less power.
So you are trying to find the precise point that the engine makes most power by advancing and retarding the timing known as MBT i,e the point at which the engine makes the most power with the minimum amount of ign advance. If the ignition is happening before the point of TDC its measured as BTDC and if its too far retarded its happening after TDC so ATDC. The two are directly related but just measured at a different point of the crankshafts stroke.
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ok then. Basically, logging the same block in vagcom with the shark map on(block 3) shows ATDC, logging block 3 when I had the bluefin on the car, gives BTDC as shown below. I'll run the PDT map tomorrow and see what shows :party:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fb150%2Fheavyd123%2Fbluefinlog.jpg&hash=cbfc2560f46e92b5b9f7848cbb701d547cad008d)
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Well, I swapped to the PDT map, and did some logging.
I did 2 runs in this block, as theres the boost spike that I was getting on the shark map aswell. Also, the runs had to be done in 3rd gear as the private road was unavailable :driver:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fb150%2Fheavyd123%2Fpdtlog1.jpg&hash=eaa93949426f031fdfc6e3c7a948498309877a2c)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fb150%2Fheavyd123%2Fpdt3.jpg&hash=6f1b8f20989249ebdc9d0af507e9d2b059f87667)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fb150%2Fheavyd123%2Fpdtlog2.jpg&hash=a3a10703bb35e05cbb5fe4ca2bed2c4cd0e04c52)
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This is the good thing about logging cars, because you have previous logs when all was well it goes to show theres an underlying issue somewhere.
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Had another look, and it overboosted in february aswell, damn thought I was onto something there aswell :fighting:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fb150%2Fheavyd123%2Fpdt2-1.jpg&hash=663b8d3b2134083dd7670aaa242df3018f495f4e)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fb150%2Fheavyd123%2Fpdt2.jpg&hash=a1b0d27b5c2c5f7ab212143246c91d74f4cd86c8)
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You got an uprated hpfp? The boost control doesn't seem that great if you are getting such a high spike with such a fast drop off and lack of hold at the top.
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Yep, running an APR fuel pump. I just put a new OEM pump in this afternoon with a new thrust sensor to see if it makes any difference,
Timing pull looks good on the second run when the engine has been warmed up :surprised:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fb150%2Fheavyd123%2Flogsfp.jpg&hash=b06a84b1865f0489a70bb717ee924cd4d1870d49)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fb150%2Fheavyd123%2Fllogsfp2.jpg&hash=467914ac04264e5a8ae5804063a89bcbdf713688)
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Map doesn't ask for much fuel pressure. Is that pdt's style of mapping? Do you have an rs4 fuel pressure relief valve?
I wouldn't want to run 1.9 bar of peak boost. Turbo won't be your friend for long. Have you done a log of the maf?
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Are the MAFs in these as good as the coilpacks? lol
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Map doesn't ask for much fuel pressure. Is that pdt's style of mapping? Do you have an rs4 fuel pressure relief valve?
I wouldn't want to run 1.9 bar of peak boost. Turbo won't be your friend for long. Have you done a log of the maf?
I havent got an rs4 valve, there's log I did this morning with the maf readings a couple of posts up. I know the boost is high, it's been spiking for a few months now, no idea why :stupid:
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They are 100% better than the Bosch mafs of old. So 1000% better than our sh*te coil packs.
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Maf figures are fairly low. You don't hold much boost at the top end so that won't help. If you had less spike it would tend to hold more at the top. Do you have any logs when it was running Revo 2+.
You should really see 270 gs or higher. On comparison, a xbow I did with a 3076 was seeing 380gs!
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I was only getting 247g/s max at about 6480rpm on the ITG last time I logged
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247g/s would equate to 305hp. But that doesnt take into account any extra power from the timing advance, where one of the main issue seems to be, so with the timing retarded as much as you say, it would explain the low power.
Originally your DSG was limiting all timing advance so that no matter what timing the car was asked to advance, it was always limited, hence no timing pull. They got around that somehow, car running well. Then the DSG remap, and all of a sudden the car starts to retard timing back in an extreme way, resulting in the new maps with much reduced timing.
We've seen in the logs you have a boost spike, and your previous logs show some high timing pull on what was previously a map without timing pull. Its also evident the ECU is closing the throttle a little when on full throttle at high RPM and full load. Your also throwing out black smoke, so something has to be amiss.
Does VCDS allow you to monitor knock protection or even better previous knock protction. Also Misfire counts etc.
@ Alex what sort of issues would normally cause the car to retard timing, apart from high IATs. Black smoke is normally unburnt fuel, so related maybe? When a car retards timing, does it do that by closing the throttle body a little or is that something else causing that etc.
Dom are you at the open day tomorrow?
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Well old maf logs show bluefin stage 3= 225g/s, revo stage 2+ 247gs shark stage 3 247g/s
The maf is only a few months old, as I've already queried it.
I cant make it tomorrow sy, Work decided to give us all a day off in april as our bank holiday, so I've got to work tomorrow as a normal working day :fighting:
I still have a gut feeling the turbo is dying :confused:
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dead turbo = reason to go hybrid......
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dead turbo = reason to go hybrid......
Are there many proven maps for the hybrid now, remember jabbalukes thread died off, what was the outcome?
Statlers cars were quick but very highly strung, could be unreliable?
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waiting on the update to Alex's vRS thread tbh. All the issues with hybrids seemed to be DSG related iirc.
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What about the LOBA LO380
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waiting on the update to Alex's vRS thread tbh. All the issues with hybrids seemed to be DSG related iirc.
Well thats not very reassuring for me then is it! last thing I want to be doing is rebuilding the dsg box :laugh:
Theres only one place I could find to hybridise the turbo, and that was going to cost £700. I would rather buy a brand new one for £1068 than go down the possible troubles that would come with a 400bhp turbo fitted. no doubt Mikko could sort a map out for it, but I wouldnt want to stress the internals any further
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The Revo map is working fine with my hybrid so far. Fueling is spot on.
High pull back could be from a fooked cam chain tensioner or vvt solenoid. I've seen damaged wiring to the solenoids cause them to see 12 cf's while just cruising. The black smoke is a worry. Shows unburnt fuel so why isn't it being fully burnt? Does the car missfire at all? What plugs are you running and are they all gapped correctly? Has the cambelt been recently done?
Need to spend some time on the car really to get to the bottom of it. I would like know why the map only asks for 110 bar fuel pressure?
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I did phone to get booked ibto your place alex, but was told it would be a couple of months wait until they ciuld see my car :surprised:
Cambelt was done in february. Running NGk plugs from the dealers. It doesn't misfire at all. The pdt map is only a stage 2 file, thats why it only Asks for 110 bar.
I think the smoke could be down to the fact the throttle is closing, hence why the turbo pressure is spiking, if there's no air, fuel isn't being ignited, so black smoke. But why the throttle is closing is another mystery, I think if I can find out why that is happening, I may stand a chance of solving it :stupid:
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Throttle is probably closing due to the boost spike being too high and it reaching a boost limit that should be built into the map. Could also be why you get such a sudden drop off of boost.
Have you done a log of the throttle angle?
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The Revo map is working fine with my hybrid so far. Fueling is spot on.
High pull back could be from a fooked cam chain tensioner or vvt solenoid. I've seen damaged wiring to the solenoids cause them to see 12 cf's while just cruising. The black smoke is a worry. Shows unburnt fuel so why isn't it being fully burnt? Does the car missfire at all? What plugs are you running and are they all gapped correctly? Has the cambelt been recently done?
Need to spend some time on the car really to get to the bottom of it. I would like know why the map only asks for 110 bar fuel pressure?
Hi ALex , sorry to jump in , when you say the vvt solenoid goes does it make any noises? like maybe like something lifting then dropping again?
i have high timing pull and have had this noise for ages.
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I did a log of the throttle angle on the previous page. A mate followed behind me today, and definately says that its more blue than black under load. Could the turbo oil return be blocked?
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The Revo map is working fine with my hybrid so far. Fueling is spot on.
High pull back could be from a fooked cam chain tensioner or vvt solenoid. I've seen damaged wiring to the solenoids cause them to see 12 cf's while just cruising. The black smoke is a worry. Shows unburnt fuel so why isn't it being fully burnt? Does the car missfire at all? What plugs are you running and are they all gapped correctly? Has the cambelt been recently done?
Need to spend some time on the car really to get to the bottom of it. I would like know why the map only asks for 110 bar fuel pressure?
Hi ALex , sorry to jump in , when you say the vvt solenoid goes does it make any noises? like maybe like something lifting then dropping again?
i have high timing pull and have had this noise for ages.
Tbh I've not listened to one. Do you get high timing pull even when just cruising around?
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I did a log of the throttle angle on the previous page. A mate followed behind me today, and definately says that its more blue than black under load. Could the turbo oil return be blocked?
If the oil return was blocked then the turbo would be throwing out loads of oil and would be dead by now. They usually only get semi blocked when the bearings in the turbo break apart and then get stuck.
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Have you checked theres no air leaks between the turbo and AFM?
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Have you checked theres no air leaks between the turbo and AFM?
Yes Dave, no leaks, I switched to my spare MAf today to see if it makes any difference.
I decided to take the plunge and book it into the stealers on monday ££££££££££££££££££££'s :sad1: :sad1: :sad1:
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Went to the dealers today, had it booked in, got my courtesy car, half an hour late they phoned me to see they cant touch the car as it has an intake kit fitted :stupid:
So I went back through, they had indeed done a test drive, as teh mileage had increased, but when speaking to the chief technician, he said it had been modified to they cant do any fault finding on it???
all that was fitted was a forge twintake, milltek TBE, and they also said I had an aftermarket fuel pump on, which was actually a genuine brand new VW part, but they said that no way was it a vw part that was on my car :fighting:
So went to the next dealers, chief technician had a look at my car, did various checks, and concluded it was the turbo oil seals. So its booked in thursday for a new turbo :sad1: :sad1: :sad1:
Would be interesting to see what caused the problem, as I havent heard of many of these turbos going......
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there have been a few not so well published K04 failures on stage 2+ tune in the past, normally go bang though before owners have the option of changing the turbo before any major failure occurs.
be interested to see some photo's of your Turbo once removed, ie condition of both twin scroll's..
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Booked in under warranty?
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are so i was right then :laugh:--thing it got the illness of my car :ashamed:
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:stupid: at the fuel pump , ??????
wonder if they read this forum?
is your work being done under warranty?
weird they turning work away because you have some mods?
be interesting to know if you have an underlying fault whic is causing your timing pull back which could have affected your turbo seals?
what milage you on now?
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Not under warranty, have to pay for the work myself :sad1:. I told the service desk parts I had replaced this year for them to rule things out. The fuel pump looks very shiney, no idea why they knocked it back tbh, probably had a load of cars in to work on and had messed up booking me in, they had to give me one of the salesmanship new demo cars as a courtesy car, so they probably wanted it back before end of business aswell. Just know I won't be using them again.
are so i was right then :laugh:--thing it got the illness of my car :ashamed:
I certainly hope not Andy, you buy turbos like I buy remaps!
I think I'll be wary of going back to stage 2+ again though :scared:
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I remember back along DJHorice said he new quite alot of guys who had ko4 stage 2+ cars go this way, he reckoned at the time that theres going to be alot of cars with these issues in the future. He sold his stage 2+ cupra, and is now driving a stock cupra instead iirc for that reason, i think theres been a few issues like tjis in south africa and greece.
I think stage 2 is the way to go. 320hp is easily enough for a fwd
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I'd be wondering how on earth the car made 1.8 bar of boost without going into limp myself :surprised:
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I remember back along DJHorice said he new quite alot of guys who had ko4 stage 2+ cars go this way, he reckoned at the time that theres going to be alot of cars with these issues in the future. He sold his stage 2+ cupra, and is now driving a stock cupra instead iirc for that reason, i think theres been a few issues like tjis in south africa and greece.
I think stage 2 is the way to go. 320hp is easily enough for a fwd
I think you might be right. Bearing in mind I lived in africa for a few years, Its no wonder they go bang bearing in mind how hot it gets over there!
I think if I can get it all sorted, I might sell or just stick with stage 2, although I dont know if Ben will do another map for me :ashamed:
I spoke to a lad at work, and a mate of his had the same trouble when he took his car to the same dealer to get something sorted, they mustnt like touching modded cars full stop, must have had their fingers burned in the past or something?
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Your turbo will only need it replacing this time i reckon..I reckon you should stick to stage 2 then hopefully both ours cars will be trouble free when they are sorted out
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Did you ask them what would happen if their diagnosis was incorrect and the problem still occurs after the new turbo? after all, you are spending £1000+ and if their diagnosis is wrong and they incorrectly replace parts that were not required you will be out of pocket. I would definitely ask this question.
Also ask for a reciept from VW for the new turbo and your old turbo back, I have seen lots of reconditioned turbos on cars that were supposed to be 'brand new' after having turbo changes at a main dealer.
You also already have a stg2 that makes 320hp, so no need to buy any more maps (even though you like buying maps, what is it 20+ now?) :wink:
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I will be asking this Dave :happy2: But to be honest, I've used 0.5 litres of oil in 2 weeks, and it isnt dripping on the floor, and the blue cloud only comes out when the engine is hot, and I've been coasting for a while
I will ask for old turbo back, as it may be ok for someone to hybridise :wink:
I phoned lots of places to try and get mine reconditioned, but they all said they couldnt do it, including turbo technics, and that place you told me about at wynard park. I was a bit sceptical about the price they quoted, as it works out cheaper than the price it would have cost me to get it done by yourself Dave.
I'd be wondering how on earth the car made 1.8 bar of boost without going into limp myself :surprised:
I havent had a single fault code on for months?
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Do you mind me asking how much vw are charging and what they are including? I would like to see how I would compare.
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Do you mind me asking how much vw are charging and what they are including? I would like to see how I would compare.
I will do once it's been done :happy2:
I would have driven down to yourselves, but when I phoned up, the two month wait to get my car in put me off :confused:
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Oh well..................
Ended up paying £1370 altogether, inc all seals, and a £70 oil pipe(06F145778G). When I asked for my old turbo back, they then told me it was an exchange turbo so I couldnt have it back. I had a look at it and there was some oil coming out of it, and they was a bit of play in the shaft aswell.
I did a 20 mile trip, and still getting random plumes of blue smoke, and tailgate being covered in black dots again. So headed back to the dealers and they said everything was caked in oil, and I need to do at least 200 miles before it clears up :stupid: :stupid: :stupid:
I'll give them the benefit of the doubt, but I find it highly unlikely that it will, I seem to have a distinct feeling I've just wasted £1370 on a second hand turbo that I didnt even need :fighting:
On another note, I test drove a leon cupra r today, very nice, even the standard exhaust sounds better than my milltek, unfortunately was only offered £9500 for my heap of cr@p so I guess I wont be buying it :sad1:
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i thought they would keep your turbo as its exchange--i mine smoked at first as it had oil still il-n the system but it cleared up and was fine
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Ouch on that bill!
Hope it all works out ok in the end. :smiley:
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Quite a fair price tbh. We do a brand new turbo for 899 plus vat, and with the labour it comes to more than the vw price, but its a new turbo.
If there is oil in the exhaust system, then it will clear within a few miles. Any oil that's got into the intercooler will need the intercooler removing and cleaning out, or the oil will take fooking ages to clear through.
Sorry we quoted so long to take a look. Bloody stacked with work and two lambos to get ready for a 24 hour race in Spain.
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Oh well..................
Ended up paying £1370 altogether, inc all seals, and a £70 oil pipe(06F145778G). When I asked for my old turbo back, they then told me it was an exchange turbo so I couldnt have it back. I had a look at it and there was some oil coming out of it, and they was a bit of play in the shaft aswell.
I did a 20 mile trip, and still getting random plumes of blue smoke, and tailgate being covered in black dots again. So headed back to the dealers and they said everything was caked in oil, and I need to do at least 200 miles before it clears up :stupid: :stupid: :stupid:
I'll give them the benefit of the doubt, but I find it highly unlikely that it will, I seem to have a distinct feeling I've just wasted £1370 on a second hand turbo that I didnt even need :fighting:
On another note, I test drove a leon cupra r today, very nice, even the standard exhaust sounds better than my milltek, unfortunately was only offered £9500 for my heap of cr@p so I guess I wont be buying it :sad1:
Did you ask the question regarding what they would do if they diagnosed it incorrectly?
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I did ask the question Dave, but they were adamant that it was the turbo, and that it wasnt anything else.
I did some logs today and the ignition timing angle is still acting strange between 2.5k-3k rpm.
How much would a couple of hours of dyno time and datalogging be Dave? got 5 maps to log, couple of runs a piece :wink: :wink: :wink:
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Oh well, the plot thickens yet again.
The intake manifold was removed, and inside where the valves are, it is caked in wet black oil :stupid:
They asked me through to have a look for myself. All the pictures I have found on the web show a dry carbon build up on the valves, and a rusty looking looking cylinder head.
They still insist that the turbo I paid out £1370 was still part of the problem :fighting:
Since it was replaced, I still used well over a litre of oil in 500 miles......................
I hope it isnt the valve stem oil seals I originally suggested to them before they decided it was the turbo :fighting:
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sounds like we are having similiar issues--after getting the turbo done i have the same problem..Had the head removed and tested and the valve stem oil seals have gone
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you not having much luck buddy.
my valve stem oil seals were also shot on my head but i wasnt using as much oil as you and from what the garage has told me and from my photos the valves were dryish.
tbh if your valve stem oil seals were shot to use this much oil you should of noticed a lot of blue smoke from your exhaust?
i thought you did a rev test when your car was warm and it didnt produce the smoke iirc? but correct me if im wrong.
i would still argue the fact about the turbo if i were you , how can thy relate that changing your turbo and you still having the original issue still means the turbo needed to be replaced?.
i wonder if your intercooler is full of oil? i know you get some in the bottom but i wonder if you have excess in there?
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Yep the usual signs aren't there, and no blue smoke on cold startup either.
They said the intercooler hoses were clear as they already checked for that allegedly
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looking more and more that the head is going to have to be removed on your Dom
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Any valve pics possible?
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Any valve pics possible?
I nearly did, but I felt like a right nerd asking if I could take photos of the engine whilst its in a workshop! I only had my 3gs phone on me at the time anyway which wouldnt have taken much of a photo anyway. Will try and pluck up some courage when i got back tomorrow :laugh:
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I don't care what dealers say.that can't be good to be going through oil like that.especially with the stte of the rear bumper.I'd be going for a compression test at a trusted garage.
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Any valve pics possible?
I nearly did, but I felt like a right nerd asking if I could take photos of the engine whilst its in a workshop! I only had my 3gs phone on me at the time anyway which wouldnt have taken much of a photo anyway. Will try and pluck up some courage when i got back tomorrow :laugh:
i know how you feel mate but sometimes you just need to bite the bullett.
im going to the garage today and im asking to take photos , it has to be done lol
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I went to the dealers, car has been there 9 days now :popcornsoda:
latest update is they are blaming the mods that have been done to the car, so no chance of any free labour off them for any work, or their mis diagnosis of a faulty turbo, so basically paid £1720 for nothing whatsoever, all I have is a couple of photos they took after they removed the intake manifold ( http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,36117.0.html ) car is still the same as it was 5 weeks ago, so looks like I am the proud owner of 5 of the most expensive photos in the world eh folks!
And all the manager says repetitively is they dont know what damage the modifications have made, performance exhaust, air filter, expecially the bsh pcv revamp kit I had on for a week. modifications modifications modifications.
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They will blame any thing to get out doing it for free or they cocked up,
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They learn the fundemental mechanics but seem to have no real ideal what the f*ck they are talking about. The fact you are paying for parts fitted under mis diagnosis is didgusting :fighting:
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I'd be getting onto trading standards & VW if I were you.
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I had a phonecall from vw customer services about how my recent visit to the dealers went, I replied truthfully about what they had done, and since then I have only been able to deal with the manager and head technician, dont know if they are linked though :stupid:
All the diagnosis they have been doing is alledgedly been from Vw, as that is why they took photos and had to email them off and been waiting for replies from VW with which way to proceed.
I think I'll be getting my car back from them when its put back together and go elsewhere, then go through the complaints procedure :popcornsoda:
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Dom, did you ask what would happen in the case of incorrect diagnosis when it went in for the turbo?
I would demand your old turbo back, its yours and they have no right to keep it. Get it checked by a turbo specialist.
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Dom, did you ask what would happen in the case of incorrect diagnosis when it went in for the turbo?
I would demand your old turbo back, its yours and they have no right to keep it. Get it checked by a turbo specialist.
I did ask, and they insistently replied it was definetly the turbo.........
It was an exchange turbo so cant get it back :fighting:
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I went to the dealers, car has been there 9 days now :popcornsoda:
latest update is they are blaming the mods that have been done to the car
What a load of bull, i'm running stage 3 ( since 50k) on mine which is equivalent to stage 2+ with all the mods and i have 101k and the engine runs like new.
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Dom, did you ask what would happen in the case of incorrect diagnosis when it went in for the turbo?
I would demand your old turbo back, its yours and they have no right to keep it. Get it checked by a turbo specialist.
I did ask, and they insistently replied it was definetly the turbo.........
It was an exchange turbo so cant get it back :fighting:
Ive bought a fair few new turbos from the dealers and they have never asked for the old unit back on exchange. Personally, after looking at your car when changing the DP I am not convinced the 'new' turbo was new, but thats another story.
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Dom, did you ask what would happen in the case of incorrect diagnosis when it went in for the turbo?
I would demand your old turbo back, its yours and they have no right to keep it. Get it checked by a turbo specialist.
I did ask, and they insistently replied it was definetly the turbo.........
It was an exchange turbo so cant get it back :fighting:
Ive bought a fair few new turbos from the dealers and they have never asked for the old unit back on exchange. Personally, after looking at your car when changing the DP I am not convinced the 'new' turbo was new, but thats another story.
I know what you're saying, ie the nuts looking like they weren't even taken off and the downpipe nuts that were still rusted on! Any chance of uploading those photos dave, or emailing me them please?
It's trying to argue that fact, which I think would be extremely difficult. Still haven't got car back, I've raised concern with vw customer services. Part number for the turbo ended in x, guessing exchange. Part number was 06f145702cx
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Got the car back from the dealers yesterday, charged me another £389......
I thought I'd check the oil level today when I finished work, they'd given it back to me with it well under the min level on teh dipstick.
Then pulled out of work and the car went into limp mode stuck at 50mph on the way home, plugged my vcds in to find this fault.
000564 - Boost Pressure Regulation: Limit Exceeded (Overboost Condition)
P0234 - 001 - Upper Limit Exceeded
I wiped the fault off accidentally, and the car is now back to normal again :stupid:
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what did you actually get for your £389?
at least in the old days people wore masks and told you they were about to rob you.
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what did you actually get for your £389?
at least in the old days people wore masks and told you they were about to rob you.
Compression test, diagnostics, inlet manifold removal and refit, crankcase beather cleaned out, road test and some seals and gaskets, bargain eh :rolleye:
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Dont forget the free limp mode, empty sump and fault code. How generous of them :signLOL:
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Dont forget the free limp mode, empty sump and fault code. How generous of them :signLOL:
They were all freebies though Dave, although I might get a bill for them when I go back :rolleye:
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Still at least it's fixed now....... Isn't it?
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Still at least it's fixed now....... Isn't it?
Sadly no
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any more updates ?
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Vw customer services said dealer said turbo deffo needed replacing, well they aren't going to admit they were wrong, but that's as far as that is going.
Car is currently at a vw specialist getting cylinder head refurbed and new piston rings fitted, hopefully get it back at the weekend. Looking forward to running the engine in :sad1:
Can't much else to fix so hopefully will be sorted. Had my milltek downpipe welded up and xrayed so that's good to go back on, got a new itg intake ready to go on, so stage 2 remap when it's all run in :party:
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good news :happy2:
Hope your repair bill isnt too big fella, hope they are sympathetic with what youve forked out before.
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Between £3100-£3400 altogether. Nice eh :drinking:
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:surprised:
ouch... sorry dude.. :sad1:
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Bloody hell !
thats not good news mate , feel for you buddy.
well lets just hope she will be better than ever.