MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: keano on August 15, 2011, 06:07:50 pm
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Hi chaps,
I've been offered some coilovers for my car but unfortunately they are for a manual, but i have DSG.
The springs rates on the website have the same spring rates for both, and same maximum weights for both sets too.
What are peoples views on this? :drinking:
Nick :happy2:
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Most companies have different springs for manual and DSG cars, the DSG gearbox weighs more.
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Fit them. Any difference will be negligible. :smiley:
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As hedge says
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The difference in the 2 cars weights is about 30kg extra for DSG Cars which is about the same as 1/4 tank of fuel.
As Ian says the differences will be negligible :happy2:
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I wouldn't be so hasty, we have had a few threads on here lately were people can feel the difference between 2psi in their tyres. :laugh: I would ask these guys with the super sensitive backside first if it will be a problem. :star:
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I wouldn't be so hasty, we have had a few threads on here lately were people can feel the difference between 2psi in their tyres. :laugh: I would ask these guys with the super sensitive backside first if it will be a problem. :star:
:notworthy: :signLOL:
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Thanks guys.
I've got a fat arse, It'll absorb the difference :grin:
:drinking: Merry Coilover Day to you all :drinking:
:jumpmove:
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YES IT DOES MAKE A DIFFERENCE!
I had a MK5 DSG come in to me with a set of Eibach coilovers, had problems with scrubbing on the front despite removing the arch screws and raising the spring plate quite high. The front end would dive under braking and weight transfer across the front of the car when braking into a corner was awful.
Springs were for a totally different axle weight car, £150 later some replacement coil springs were fitted and the difference massive.
However, you could buy the kit and fit the correct springs if they cause an isseue
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*issue :ashamed:
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Oh no! Merry Coilover Day will have to be on hold then I guess.
I don't want any fuss swapping things round so I guess I'll just buy DSG.
Cheers Dave for the extra info :happy2:
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I would agree if you were fitting something that was completely different but the amounts talked about between a DSG and non-DSG car is negligible compared to a couple of chaps who like their food a bit.
If you wanted to fit Polo or Lupo suspension I would say no but between a non-DSG and DSG Golf I say yes.
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I would agree if you were fitting something that was completely different but the amounts talked about between a DSG and non-DSG car is negligible compared to a couple of chaps who like their food a bit.
If you wanted to fit Polo or Lupo suspension I would say no but between a non-DSG and DSG Golf I say yes.
Agree.
Having been in Ian's car i can honestly say that they are spot on on his Octy and definitely nothing of what Dave has written above with regards the front end diving/weight transfer etc.
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been running v3 dsg coil over on mine for years they are perfect trust me just make sure a pro sets them up correctly on the scales
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The difference in the 2 cars weights is about 30kg extra for DSG Cars which is about the same as 1/4 tank of fuel.
As Ian says the differences will be negligible :happy2:
1.) Mk5 golf Fuel tank holds 55 litres
2.) 1/4 fuel tank = 13.75 litres
3.) 1 litre of petrol weighs 0.737 kg (petrol is less dense than water where 1 litre roughly weighs 1 kg)
4.) therefore 1/4 tank of petrol weighs 10.13kg
5.) 30kg of petrol = 40.7 litres
6.) therefore 30kg would be the weight of approx 3/4 full petrol tank :happy2:
sorry i was bored :signLOL:
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sorry i was bored :signLOL:
Really!?!? I'd never have guessed :grin: :evilgrin:
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The difference in the 2 cars weights is about 30kg extra for DSG Cars which is about the same as 1/4 tank of fuel.
As Ian says the differences will be negligible :happy2:
1.) Mk5 golf Fuel tank holds 55 litres
2.) 1/4 fuel tank = 13.75 litres
3.) 1 litre of petrol weighs 0.737 kg (petrol is less dense than water where 1 litre roughly weighs 1 kg)
4.) therefore 1/4 tank of petrol weighs 10.13kg
5.) 30kg of petrol = 40.7 litres
6.) therefore 30kg would be the weight of approx 3/4 full petrol tank :happy2:
sorry i was bored :signLOL:
Didn't know rainman was a member on here :signLOL:
Back on topic though, your best bet would prob be just to wait for a set of coilys for the dsg to come up. that way you know you cant really go wrong.
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Realistically you wont notice unless your doing the ring and trying to get the last 10th of a second out of it. At that just hit the gym for a few month, lose the spare wheel and run light on fuel. If you had both side by side fitted to identical cars you prob wont notice. Im sure the difference in 5dr to 3dr cars is 30kg or more!!
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We're not talking 'just' 30kg though. It's 30kg directly over the front axle. It may not sound like a great deal, but the car is setup to deal with varying weights in between the axles and over the rear, not over the front. It will likely make a noticeable difference in my opinion.
Adding that amount so far forward does change the dynamics of the car. Not only will it change the weight distribution significantly, but it'll also change the polar moment which affects things like turn and and under/oversteer characteristics.
Adding 30kg on the front axle will alter the distribution from 41:59 to 42:58. 1% doesn't sound much, but it does in reality make a big difference which is why the DSG will have different springs to the manual. When you're developing a car, a 1% change in weight distribution would be incredibly difficult to achieve. There's not a lot in a car that weighs 30kg on it's own that can be moved around, and car batteries are fairly commonly relocated in performance cars to achieve better weight balance/polar moment....and that's only a fraction of a %.
I wouldn't say it would be unsafe, but it'll certainly not control the front of the car very well and will likely make the car more nose heavy leading to more oversteer.
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We're not talking 'just' 30kg though. It's 30kg directly over the front axle. It may not sound like a great deal, but the car is setup to deal with varying weights in between the axles and over the rear, not over the front. It will likely make a noticeable difference in my opinion.
Adding that amount so far forward does change the dynamics of the car. Not only will it change the weight distribution significantly, but it'll also change the polar moment which affects things like turn and and under/oversteer characteristics.
Adding 30kg on the front axle will alter the distribution from 41:59 to 42:58. 1% doesn't sound much, but it does in reality make a big difference which is why the DSG will have different springs to the manual. When you're developing a car, a 1% change in weight distribution would be incredibly difficult to achieve. There's not a lot in a car that weighs 30kg on it's own that can be moved around, and car batteries are fairly commonly relocated in performance cars to achieve better weight balance/polar moment....and that's only a fraction of a %.
I wouldn't say it would be unsafe, but it'll certainly not control the front of the car very well and will likely make the car more nose heavy leading to more oversteer.
"Rainman", having blinded Jaffa with simple maths :P :signLOL: agrees with this, but i think it has more relevance if you are going racing. A 1% weight distribution change would have a negligble effect under normal road driving behaviour. However if you give it a good thrash on a country road you may notice a tendency for greater understeer due to weight over front axle + non optimised springs and a windscreen full of hedge :laugh:
Rainman also agrees with Jaffa's advice :wink:
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There was me thinking the only difference was the spring rates. :chicken:
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I reckon we have had about 5 or 6 of our members including my old set of DSG Kw V2's that have gone on Manual cars and not one has posted up any problems with set up or control. I would say this speaks for it's self. :happy2:
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but that's DSG springs to manual, not the other way around?
You're probably right either way, as i said unless you are racing the thing fairly seriously i doubt it would have that great an affect.
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I'm quite sure that the spring rate of the manual version will have a tolerance of at least 30kg. Otherwise how would anyone drive the car? When manufacturers calculate for people in the car they work off a 75kg driver usually. Well I weigh 95kg so there is an extra 20kg which would be going over the front axle more than the rear as I sit closer to the front suspenders than the rear by a good half a meter.
As has been said throughout this thread unless your on a track I would think it would be fine. I have also been in Ian's car and that feels perfectly fine with non DSG Suspension on a DSG car :happy2:
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I think the end result will be massively affected by the choice of kit. It will also come down to the drivers perception of what makes a good suspension setup, I get people coming in raving about how good their Ebay £150 coilovers are and how they have transformed the handling. I drive it and its shockingly bad, crashy, tramlines, bumpsteers, knocks etc....
The DSG kit on a manual car will be OK, but from my experience, not the other way round. In any case, why bother fitting the wrong parts :confused:
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I'm quite sure that the spring rate of the manual version will have a tolerance of at least 30kg. Otherwise how would anyone drive the car? When manufacturers calculate for people in the car they work off a 75kg driver usually. Well I weigh 95kg so there is an extra 20kg which would be going over the front axle more than the rear as I sit closer to the front suspenders than the rear by a good half a meter.
75kg driver. :signLOL: