MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: robdf2 on September 29, 2011, 06:14:32 pm
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HI guys ,
I posted a while ago about my compression test.
Well today i recieved photos of the inside of my clyinder head , photos speak a thousand words !
One thing i will say is anyone who is contemplating on cleaning their valves just be aware of what your ports might look like inside.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fuu256%2Frobdf2%2F006.jpg&hash=1626d4fa5cb728c9bdbee2467fad3cff134315f7)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fuu256%2Frobdf2%2F005.jpg&hash=64921ea422b988221ac1d00036bfa32c99599c14)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fuu256%2Frobdf2%2F004.jpg&hash=0ed9d2a410f50a7983e811f066df84940db4478a)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fuu256%2Frobdf2%2F003.jpg&hash=b9cd67fa850af5908d71bb80513538829011814f)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fuu256%2Frobdf2%2F001.jpg&hash=04c6faecea495bd2a9fa0d867d57bf88db13dd4f)
a new cylinder head has been authorised :jumpmove:
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Catch can needed............
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Bit of lapping paste and they'll be right as rain.... NOT
Bloody hell Rob, dread to think what mine are like! :sick:
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Catch can needed............
.....Why if the Inlets are Relatively clean Dave?
What fuel do you use? 99 octane?
I guess the cost of new Valve guides, Valve stem seals, seats, head Skim etc will be close of a New complete head perhaps?
or did they find something else after a close inspection of the head?
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pretty sure they are the inlet valves , sorry its all the pics i have , the dealer sent them to me this afternoon.
I should also mention that my head failed a compression test see this topic for info :
http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,34845.0.html
thing is cleaning what you can see of the valves is only half the story , look how much build up there is around the valve seating.
a catch can might have helped but obviously there is a bad design with this engine which the VW group should come up with a fix for whethers its a VW designed catch can or something similar.
But according to SEAT theres been nothing wrong with my car :rolleye:
only run on v power
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Catch can needed............
.....Why if the Inlets are Relatively clean Dave?
What fuel do you use? 99 octane?
I guess the cost of new Valve guides, Valve stem seals, seats, head Skim etc will be close of a New complete head perhaps?
or did they find something else after a close inspection of the head?
:confused:
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My 1st post has been modded above with some questions.
The Inlets look very clean for something thats done 50K..
The exhaust Valves will always look like that to an extent. But looks like perhaps the exhaust valves have been leaking (poor Seating) and causing poor compression, or failure of valve guides with oil passing down the stems causing the excess Black carbon biuld up at the base of the valves perhaps.
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(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fuu256%2Frobdf2%2F005.jpg&hash=64921ea422b988221ac1d00036bfa32c99599c14)
I think it says inlet on the card, OP reckons they are the inlet valves. Also the combustion aids port cleaning on the exhaust side, hence the exhaust port coating looks more uniform.
The build up is not only on the valve, take a look at the head, the brown stuff (seen that colour inside the oil cap in winter?). Doesn't look clean IMO.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fuu256%2Frobdf2%2F003.jpg&hash=b9cd67fa850af5908d71bb80513538829011814f)
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Interesting. However my engine has a total of 101k( twice your mileage), mapped from new and KO4 from 50k. 95 octane has been used a lot but lately closer to 99 ( according to the petrol company anyway). My engine runs flawlessly, wonder why it affects some and not others? Maybe type of oil?
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Never seen that colour inside my cap before.
i dont do short journeys , i do roughly 20k miles a year.
my inlet cam timing was found to be out which hasn't helped things , the dealers says my valves havent been closing / seating properly
i think i know why my car has missfiring so much :rolleye:
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Interesting. However my engine has a total of 101k( twice your mileage), mapped from new and KO4 from 50k. 95 octane has been used a lot but lately closer to 99 ( according to the petrol company anyway). My engine runs flawlessly, wonder why it affects some and not others? Maybe type of oil?
same here. no issues either on mine..
Exhaust Valves are normally the larger ones dave?? not the small ones.?
Anyone got ETKA to say which is which? Cant see the side of the Head as to which side is the inlet manifold..and which is Zorst..
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Should we use a cleaning product in the fuel now and again to avoid this?
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Should we use a cleaning product in the fuel now and again to avoid this?
I think with direct injection engines it won't make any difference .
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Depends on which valves are which in the photo's..
If the Gunked up ones are the Exhaust, then perhaps some Winns might work :grin:
If they are the Inlet, then its too late to worry about catch cans as the Carbon build up, if its already there, wont be shiftable unless you overhawl the Cylinder head :sad1:
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from this Video it does look like the larger are the Intake Valves.
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from this Video it does look like the larger are the Intake Valves.
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cool vid
the dealers did say they were intake valves.
they have also said the seals have perished as well
not so sure what could cause that oxidisation?
mabe a bit of water from the water circuit leaked into the ports , and its been sitting around for a couple of days?
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Interesting. However my engine has a total of 101k( twice your mileage), mapped from new and KO4 from 50k. 95 octane has been used a lot but lately closer to 99 ( according to the petrol company anyway). My engine runs flawlessly, wonder why it affects some and not others? Maybe type of oil?
same here. no issues either on mine..
Exhaust Valves are normally the larger ones dave?? not the small ones.?
Anyone got ETKA to say which is which? Cant see the side of the Head as to which side is the inlet manifold..and which is Zorst..
Inlets are larger..................
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cool vid
the dealers did say they were intake valves.
they have also said the seals have perished as wellnot so sure what could cause that oxidisation?
mabe a bit of water from the water circuit leaked into the ports , and its been sitting around for a couple of days?
Perished seals would cause a bad carbon build up for sure, and yes when the heads removed quite possibly the water has leaked in and sat behind the valve giving the rust Look. :happy2:
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Interesting. However my engine has a total of 101k( twice your mileage), mapped from new and KO4 from 50k. 95 octane has been used a lot but lately closer to 99 ( according to the petrol company anyway). My engine runs flawlessly, wonder why it affects some and not others? Maybe type of oil?
same here. no issues either on mine..
Exhaust Valves are normally the larger ones dave?? not the small ones.?
Anyone got ETKA to say which is which? Cant see the side of the Head as to which side is the inlet manifold..and which is Zorst..
Inlets are larger..................
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fv211%2Fstokeballoon%2FValves.jpg&hash=8544bd7d66a4ad842a7fcd365d27acf031f1f4ea)
Dimension Intake valve Exhaust valve
Dia. a mm 33.75 to 33.95 27.90 to 28.10
Dia. b mm 5.98 5.95
c mm 103.97 101.87
α 45 45
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thanks for the info.
stii not sure why it has failed though?
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Interesting. However my engine has a total of 101k( twice your mileage), mapped from new and KO4 from 50k. 95 octane has been used a lot but lately closer to 99 ( according to the petrol company anyway). My engine runs flawlessly, wonder why it affects some and not others? Maybe type of oil?
same here. no issues either on mine..
Exhaust Valves are normally the larger ones dave?? not the small ones.?
Anyone got ETKA to say which is which? Cant see the side of the Head as to which side is the inlet manifold..and which is Zorst..
Inlets are larger..................
Phone died and was bugging me, lol Yes Inlet valves are larger...
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Interesting. However my engine has a total of 101k( twice your mileage), mapped from new and KO4 from 50k. 95 octane has been used a lot but lately closer to 99 ( according to the petrol company anyway). My engine runs flawlessly, wonder why it affects some and not others? Maybe type of oil?
same here. no issues either on mine..
Exhaust Valves are normally the larger ones dave?? not the small ones.?
Anyone got ETKA to say which is which? Cant see the side of the Head as to which side is the inlet manifold..and which is Zorst..
Inlets are larger..................
Phone died and was bugging me, lol Yes Inlet valves are larger...
you have pm mate ref your video
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thanks for the info.
stii not sure why it has failed though?
Not quite the same place Rob but they are notorious for water getting into spark plug port no. 4 without AND with engine covers.
Dont know what to do about mine the issues are sooooo similar. The dealer didnt have the tool we was discussing last night and weren't proactive in offering to get the tool in.
Thinking the PCV change will most likely be to no avail. Although like you say it's as if there is an intermittent leak somewhere. Will see if I can stick an n75 valve on my order in the morning....
:sick: :sad1: :sick:
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thanks for the info.
stii not sure why it has failed though?
Not quite the same place Rob but they are notorious for water getting into spark plug port no. 4 without AND with engine covers.
Dont know what to do about mine the issues are sooooo similar. The dealer didnt have the tool we was discussing last night and weren't proactive in offering to get the tool in.
Thinking the PCV change will most likely be to no avail. Although like you say it's as if there is an intermittent leak somewhere. Will see if I can stick an n75 valve on my order in the morning....
:sick: :sad1: :sick:
i never really had a problem with water tbh Mike.
you should definatley have a vaccum when you pull your dipstick out.
im pretty sure yours in PCV related.
perhaps log your N75 before buying a new 1?
Can your dealer do a smoke leak test on your car , it will confirm a boost leak?
well you know the findings i have already mate , once my claim is settled i will post them up , but its a good place to start with yours.
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Fingers are crossed for you mate, dont see how they can worm out of it now!
I will probably fit PCV myself and then take it to dealer and ask about the leak test, will take some fairy liquid & a paint brush to work in the morning too, car's at work tonigh :-( (it's how I test x - country pipe lines, fill them with air at high pressure and send a joey round with a bucket of soapy water lol)
The young mechanic at Seat said he's done coilpacks on new CupraRs at 5000km :confused: He also said his friends Cupra (TFSI Pre FL) had issues with Forge DV so went back to new revision DV.
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My 1st post has been modded above with some questions.
The Inlets look very clean for something thats done 50K..
The exhaust Valves will always look like that to an extent. But looks like perhaps the exhaust valves have been leaking (poor Seating) and causing poor compression, or failure of valve guides with oil passing down the stems causing the excess Black carbon biuld up at the base of the valves perhaps.
To my knowledge the intake valves are made to be leaking a bit as there's no gasoline to lubricate them
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That head and valves would clean up fine. Mine was gunkier, but no rusting. Very odd colour.
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:confused: what causes this, is there any preventitive measures that be taken to prevent this from happening...
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Rob is this the second head you have had ?
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yep sure is Yin :sad1:
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Try this kit from 3M. The first step of this kit is key for the fsi and its direct injection system.
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I vote for italian tuneup from time to time and will leave the intake installed:
http://www.vwgticlub.co.za/forum/viewtopic.php?p=63657
I think VW is also sudgesting to do this to ease the problem.
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So where can we buy this stuff in the Uk?
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I vote for italian tuneup from time to time and will leave the intake installed:
http://www.vwgticlub.co.za/forum/viewtopic.php?p=63657
I think VW is also sudgesting to do this to ease the problem.
im baffled by this italian thin, i cant see how how driving at those rpms would clean your intake valves?
air passing through the valves isnt going to clean the valves?
so how doe it work?
all i think would happen is you would have a headache and a lighter wallet from fuel costs.
the 3m solution looks a better bet maybe doing it every 10k service?
its just a shame the throttle body is a pain to get to.
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That 3M kits is dear to buy. It seems only to be available in the US. The link below sell with Free Shipping to the UK.
http://www.jtote.com/product_info.php/08963-yourself-fuel-system-tune-kit-p-537287?currency=GBP&osCsid=6d0c9na7fq4vpsk4f50vn1p9d2 (http://www.jtote.com/product_info.php/08963-yourself-fuel-system-tune-kit-p-537287?currency=GBP&osCsid=6d0c9na7fq4vpsk4f50vn1p9d2)
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Why not go via the Pcv valve instead of the throttle body if its a royal pain to get at?
Surely Winns must do some sort of equivalant ...
it loosens the grip the on the carbon and basically makes it become loose and burns off in the chamber.
Prepair to smoke the road out though :signLOL:
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Why not go via the Pcv valve instead of the throttle body if its a royal pain to get at?
Surely Winns must do some sort of equivalant ...
it loosens the grip the on the carbon and basically makes it become loose and burns off in the chamber.
Prepair to smoke the road out though :signLOL:
Couldnt that have an abrasive effect if it goes in & out of the chamber? Negligable wear I guess?
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The throttle body doesnt look too bad to get to or the PCV inlet to the throttle body. Although the idle will go rough with the PCV venting.
If you read down the thread there was some other stuff mentioned to remove the deposits.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-6Ee-jYI_3kI/ToYZT12eFFI/AAAAAAAAA88/YNNagufoVNs/s640/P1030370.JPG)
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What about this? Seems very similar to the 3M stuff and have seen it used on a CVH engined Ford with decent results?
http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_storeId_10001_catalogId_10151_productId_185422_langId_-1_categoryId_165750
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ive seen worse :surprised:
odd colour too (water jacket leakage?) was the head gasket intact with no tracking marks indicating it had failed?
what do the spark plugs look like?
but what i would say is that if this is the 2nd cylinder head in 50k then it suggests a primary issue that hasnt been fixed.......
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ive seen worse :surprised:
odd colour too (water jacket leakage?) was the head gasket intact with no tracking marks indicating it had failed?
what do the spark plugs look like?
but what i would say is that if this is the 2nd cylinder head in 50k then it suggests a primary issue that hasnt been fixed.......
i have no idea about leaks , these are the only pictures the dealer has sent me so far.
i agree that there must be something else wrong with the car to have so many issues with my cylinder heads.
but what can cause it?
im more interested to know why3 valves are very clean and the rest are coked up?
i will ak the dealer on monday and try and get some answers.
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ive seen worse :surprised:
odd colour too (water jacket leakage?) was the head gasket intact with no tracking marks indicating it had failed?
what do the spark plugs look like?
but what i would say is that if this is the 2nd cylinder head in 50k then it suggests a primary issue that hasnt been fixed.......
i have no idea about leaks , these are the only pictures the dealer has sent me so far.
i agree that there must be something else wrong with the car to have so many issues with my cylinder heads.
but what can cause it?
im more interested to know why3 valves are very clean and the rest are coked up?
i will ak the dealer on monday and try and get some answers.
Do you know which no cylinder the valves were worst effected, Rob?
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ive seen worse :surprised:
odd colour too (water jacket leakage?) was the head gasket intact with no tracking marks indicating it had failed?
what do the spark plugs look like?
but what i would say is that if this is the 2nd cylinder head in 50k then it suggests a primary issue that hasnt been fixed.......
i have no idea about leaks , these are the only pictures the dealer has sent me so far.
i agree that there must be something else wrong with the car to have so many issues with my cylinder heads.
but what can cause it?
im more interested to know why3 valves are very clean and the rest are coked up?
i will ak the dealer on monday and try and get some answers.
Do you know which no cylinder the valves were worst effected, Rob?
no Mike im sorry i dont
its a question i will be asking the dealers on Monday though together with why 3 valves look clean compared to the others.
Your logs didnt translate very well into my version of excell.
may be post them up in the vcds forum on here mate?
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Any additives to the fuel will not clean the intake valves.
Besides the 3M kit which works nicely, BG44K has a good product, but to use it you must have an injection system. The nice thing with the 3m kit is that it comes with its own. I get the 3m kit at Autozone for $40usd plus a $10usd mail-in rebate. If you can rig up your own injection system, then your product options are greater. BTW, most of the really good(expensive) intake/fuel system cleaners are simply "mineral spirits". One gallon of mineral spirits cost me $15usd and an 8oz bottle of one cleaner costs $25usd and one can of BG44K costs $35usd. Also, I add 8oz of min. spirits to a full tank to clean my injectors every other oil change (10k miles).