MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: baderlfc on October 25, 2011, 04:16:21 pm
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In the market for a GTi or Ed30.. wondering whether the Ed30 is really worth the extra £2-2.5k they seem to carry pricewise?
I've heard (correct me if I'm wrong) the Ed30's have the K04 turbo and larger injectors essentially meaning they have bigger tuning potential?
I would also imagine an Ed30 would hold it's value better than a standard GTi?
Really I'm thinking is it better to keep the £2k plus to mod a standard GTi? I mean are they really worlds apart in terms of performance anyway?
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Come take mine for a test drive and make me an offer.
I'm at stage 2+ and I reckon you'd be very happy with it :happy2:
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Come take mine for a test drive and make me an offer.
I'm at stage 2+ and I reckon you'd be very happy with it :happy2:
Stage 2+? So about 320BHP or so??
Where abouts are you in the country?
Too be honest I was pleasantly surprised with the standard GTi, same BHP as my BM but a bit more torque and 200kg lighter meant I was impressed with the turbo charged 4pot!
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320bhp on a standard rolling road, but I reckon more like 285 in the real world.
I've sent you an e-mail (hotmail) :happy2:
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Really I'm thinking is it better to keep the £2k plus to mod a standard GTi? I mean are they really worlds apart in terms of performance anyway?
Depends on how you drive as the k03 (smaller turbo) is spooled up earlier in the rev range and has more low down grunt than a k04 car. At mid to high revs when the k04 is fully spooled, it'll keep pulling till the red line whereas the k03 will run out of puff by 5.5k.
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320bhp on a standard rolling road, but I reckon more like 285 in the real world.
I've sent you an e-mail (hotmail) :happy2:
Isn't the car undriveable at that sort of power?
320bhp and god knows how much torque through the front wheels?!
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Unless your track daying the car regularly, then either car at stage 2+ isnt gonna get used too much on the public roads.
I would change it purely for what the styling is that you prefer, either the Ed30 styling or the Std GTi's design.
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Steve I disagree. I've never done a track day before, but I find the GTi at stage 2+ the way VW should have sold it in the 1st place. It's a pleasure to drive and th power is ther if you need it :P
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Steve I disagree. I've never done a track day before, but I find the GTi at stage 2+ the way VW should have sold it in the 1st place. It's a pleasure to drive and th power is ther if you need it :P
I would have the Ed30 for its looks, over the basic car anyday, but we all like different elements of the cars.
Its just a bonus the Ed30 has a larger turbo, but tuning it to its limits isnt to everyones taste.
Thats why i posted my comment.
Jussa, you really need a trip out in an Ed30 fully Tuned, it really does leave the Std GTI behind at the same stage of tune.
VW also beef'd up the engines internals to cope with the extra power the BYD engine has.I would budget an engine block change if you wanna go that far.
Up to the O.P of this question of course..
Std GTi stage 2+ around 285bhp
Ed30 stage 2+around 340bhp
My Bluefin stage1 Ed30 pulled 284.6bhp, and thats with a pants Stage 1 Remap.
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I thought the only difference between the 2 cars was the colour coded skirt and bumper and the Pescaras :confused:
I think you'll also find that at JKM rollers the Revo stage 2+ GTi gets around 285bhp and the same ED30 will get around 320-330? I'm not disputing that the ED30 is quicker. If I was I wouldn't be buying an S3 :evilgrin:
Let me know when you're in SE London and you can show me how your Eddy goes :party:
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320bhp on a standard rolling road, but I reckon more like 285 in the real world.
I've sent you an e-mail (hotmail) :happy2:
320 on a KO3??
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I thought the only difference between the 2 cars was the colour coded skirt and bumper and the Pescaras :confused:
I think you'll also find that at JKM rollers the Revo stage 2+ GTi gets around 285bhp and the same ED30 will get around 320-330? I'm not disputing that the ED30 is quicker. If I was I wouldn't be buying an S3 :evilgrin:
Let me know when you're in SE London and you can show me how your Eddy goes :party:
Theres alot more differences in the engine block and has strenghtened Internals to go with the changed Injectors and Turbo fitted to the Ed30/Pirelli cars.
I did actually say that about 285bhp on a Stage2+ Std GTi :confused:, the most powerful Ed30 ive seen run at JKm was 334bhp, and that had a rich running condition diagnosed by Jim of JKM.
Ive been in a stage 2+ eddy, and it makes my stage 2 seem underpowered :signLOL: but i have less issues getting the power down, so off the line its very simular tbh.
Only at top revs or on a quarter mile strip is the only way to see the difference.
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A Stage 1 eddy is where its at!! I should have learnt a long time ago!! No exhaust will make it sound like an R32!!
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Depends on how you drive as the k03 (smaller turbo) is spooled up earlier in the rev range and has more low down grunt than a k04 car. At mid to high revs when the k04 is fully spooled, it'll keep pulling till the red line whereas the k03 will run out of puff by 5.5k.
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Thats not entirely true as my Octy Vrs K03 has been on Sharks rollers and puts out a healthy 252 bhp almost from 4000 to 7000rpm and holds the power well. I have got misfires lowdown which is probably plug related but that will get sorted. Id still opt for a ED30 as they are far more tuneable though.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fm549%2F56octyvrs%2FShark.jpg&hash=63c04dac3dba1a78ecf4c11e1dcd45c5795514c0)
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I have a stage 2+ gti and think its great. My brother in-law had a stage 2+ ed30 which was also great. Both were pretty evenly matched up to around 100mph then the ed30 would steadily start to pull away. Thing is how fast do you wanna go and what are you wanting to use the car for. Personally if i had my time with one or the other again i would have gone ed30 stage1 . Plenty enough for road use imho. I do have to say though when i was at inters this year, i slaughtered a stage 2 ed30 down the strip. So who knows. I personally think dynos are a lottery. Its what the cars feel like on the road and mine feels damn quick. An example of the dyno lottey mine ran 303hp on stattlers dyno.
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Personaly, I would go for the ED30 and just a stage 1 map.... Oh, hang on, thats what I did do :evilgrin:
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See responses on Club GTI....
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Really I'm thinking is it better to keep the £2k plus to mod a standard GTi? I mean are they really worlds apart in terms of performance anyway?
Depends on how you drive as the k03 (smaller turbo) is spooled up earlier in the rev range and has more low down grunt than a k04 car. At mid to high revs when the k04 is fully spooled, it'll keep pulling till the red line whereas the k03 will run out of puff by 5.5k.
....I agree.
Driving my modded K03 and a modded K04 back-to-back I found my K03's earlier get-up-and-go surprisingly more evident - I didn't expect it and must say that I rather like the slightly sportier feel, especially as I don't often rev over about 5.5k and use my gears accordingly. I don't need that extra licence-losing potential. I prefer the plainer interior style of the GTI to the Ed30 too.
Which is 'best' is entirely down to the individual's preferences and the only way to decide is to test drive both.
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I have a stage 2+ gti and think its great. My brother in-law had a stage 2+ ed30 which was also great. Both were pretty evenly matched up to around 100mph then the ed30 would steadily start to pull away. Thing is how fast do you wanna go and what are you wanting to use the car for. Personally if i had my time with one or the other again i would have gone ed30 stage1 . Plenty enough for road use imho. I do have to say though when i was at inters this year, i slaughtered a stage 2 ed30 down the strip. So who knows. I personally think dynos are a lottery. Its what the cars feel like on the road and mine feels damn quick. An example of the dyno lottey mine ran 303hp on stattlers dyno.
only had my ed30 the weekend drove it 250 miles home and well impresses with the car with revo stage 1 remap, I have my mk5 golf gti stage 1 up for sale now, but still drive both until it sells, the gti does feel to have a little more low down grunt, but the ed30 pulls like a train and a lot faster, sold my skyline r32 grt to buy this car and don’t regret it,
But as stated in previous posts, depends what you want from the car, the gti with a remap is a belter, both good cars
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I drove a stage 1 GTI for 3 years. then I had a Leon Cupra stage 1 and now Im driving again a GTI but at stage 2. GTIs both were DSG boxes, thats basicly the reason I went GTI again after k04 Cupra. I do miss the awesome 3rd gear pull of the Cupra. But the GTI accelerates quicker from 0-60mph due to the DSG box and its quite rare when I really would need more then 250 horses. Im still wondering should I get the k04 kit for my GTI, but considering the daily driving it gets used for, I might miss the low-end grunt vs the extra high end pull available in the illegal speeds. Its not an easy choice, reason says k03 but heart says k04. I dont know what I will do.. Anyway Im pretty happy with the car right now.
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Thanks for all the inputs guys, lots of useful info to mull over in there..
1 thing that concerns me is people saying the K04 turbo's take a while to spool up... do they lack bottom end grunt?
I don't want to have to bollock the car everywhere and constantly be at high revs on my day to day drive just to get the power on..
My current car (BMW E46 325) lacks low end torque and only really comes into it's own at 3-3.5k revs plus so I was hoping in moving to a turbo charged car I'd be able to get some low end grunt! (and I don't want a diesel!)
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When people say the K03 spools up faster, its only by around 300-400 difference.
Not a big margain in the grand scheme of things.
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I think the sensible answer is to test drive a standard GTi and an Edition 30 and go from there...
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MY last car was a K03s 1.8T and current K04 Ed30 and I personally dont notice any difference when pootling along, only notice when you floor it from low revs and the boost hits about 300rpm later than the smaller K03s, whats more noticeable is the K04 keeps pushing until 6500rpm whereas the K03s ran out of steam at around 5200rpm.
Most of the roads i drive are De-restricted (60) A roads and the K04 helps get past the wagons doing 40 (It's CLEARLY obvious those chaps are paid hourly as they drive at 40mph in a 60mph with clear roads, :fighting:) and easy to get by agriculturals doing 30 too.
Like the guy said, try both and see what you prefer, i think i will know the outcome :happy2:
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dont forget to consider the R32.
All three MK5 cars are very good - I have only driven my ED30 but got that as opinion suggested it was the best all rounder out of the three, but it is horses for courses, the Gti will be better in some respects for certain people because they dont like the styling of the ED30, dont want to pay the premium or prefer the 0-40 grunt of the k03 and the R32 will be preferred by some people due to traction, soundtrack, 6 pot etc.
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I drive a BMW 6 pot now and have driven mk4 and mk5 R32s and neither compare to the BMW straight 6 in terms of smoothness or sound IMO.. also as I've said the only thing I don't like about my 325 is that it lacks low down torque meaning it doesn't get going until 3k revs or more, the R32 suffers the same problem like any other big NA engine.
And then there's the fuel economy... I know the GTi's/Ed30's don't exactly sip fuel but 6 pots guzzle around town big time!!
Also I prefer the styling of the GTi and Ed30 over the R32, only positive on the R32 as far as I'm concerned is the 4WD system.. And if I wanted that I'd save my pennies and get an S3.
I am slightly concerned about going from RWD which I absolutely love to a more powerful car with FWD.. sounds like it's asking for trouble but i've been assured the Golf MK5 GTi's don't handle like the FWD cars I've driven!
Just wish I could find some MK5's nearby to test drive!!!
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I drive a BMW 6 pot now and have driven mk4 and mk5 R32s and neither compare to the BMW straight 6 in terms of smoothness or sound IMO.. also as I've said the only thing I don't like about my 325 is that it lacks low down torque meaning it doesn't get going until 3k revs or more, the R32 suffers the same problem like any other big NA engine.
And then there's the fuel economy... I know the GTi's/Ed30's don't exactly sip fuel but 6 pots guzzle around town big time!!
Also I prefer the styling of the GTi and Ed30 over the R32, only positive on the R32 as far as I'm concerned is the 4WD system.. And if I wanted that I'd save my pennies and get an S3.
I am slightly concerned about going from RWD which I absolutely love to a more powerful car with FWD.. sounds like it's asking for trouble but i've been assured the Golf MK5 GTi's don't handle like the FWD cars I've driven!
Just wish I could find some MK5's nearby to test drive!!!
I reckon you will get the gti lot saying gti's are best and the Ed30 lot saying theirs are best :signLOL:
Where do you live, there is bound to be someone that lives near you with one?
I noticed Ed30 have half and half leather which I dont like , I prefer full leather like in the Gti. Saying that maybe they come with full leather too , not sure.
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I noticed Ed30 have half and half leather which I dont like , I prefer full leather like in the Gti. Saying that maybe they come with full leather too , not sure.
One of the hallmarks of an ed30 was the half leather, half fabric seats.
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I like the half leather and red stitching on the interior etc.. but the main reason that would make me pay the substantial premium Ed30 owners want for their car's is the engine!
I live in cwmbran, south wales.. 20mins from cardiff if anyones nearby????
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I noticed Ed30 have half and half leather which I dont like , I prefer full leather like in the Gti. Saying that maybe they come with full leather too , not sure.
One of the hallmarks of an ed30 was the half leather, half fabric seats.
So they dont do full leather? thats a good reason for me not to get an ED30 :signLOL:
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All down to what you want the car for. If you want to have a track toy or go all out performance and bragging rights go ED30 as better tuning ability.
Personally i come from a 350bhp RS and wanted something newer and comfy with abit of poke. All be it i cant help myself and its booked in for stage 2 lol.
I'll probably get slated for this but in my opinion I dont like the edition30 seats, all the colour coding to a extent. I have a white Gti and like the black skirts to break it up. Do hate the rear bumper though but will get that half colour coded in due time.
If your not bothered about going over 300bhp, id buy a Gti with sh*t hot spec.
I got a ex demo car so has all extra's apart from sat nav. Even got r32 style cloth bucket seats which i think are best seats to come in a gti as not a fan of leather personally.
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Everyone has their opinion, but for me the ED30 seats are great, so confy and hold my average frame nicely when chucking it about, if your a true fan of GTI's and like the retro interior (I do) then you will get one for that and for tuning potential.
Like the guy above said he prefers the bumpers not colour coded on the GTI as opposed to colour coded on ED30, but if the bumpers are not colour coded it might as well be a 1.6fsi match or 2.0tdi, only stand out from MK5 are the Ed30 and R32 (Drink fuel and no quicker than ED30, found that out yesterday after my neighbour in his R32 saw me behind him :P).
R32 sound better and i like the single exhaust either side, but you can get a rear skirt and after market exhasut like that anyway!.
GTI for everyday and money wise, ED30 for Looks/Retro and tuning potential.
And yes i did try a GTI out of curiosity before buying the Ed30 and I also drove my neighbours R32 a few months back, great grip off roundabouts, but felt very cumbersome to me (It does weigh almost 200KG more than ED30 and only has 19bhp more, believe me that 19bhp is LOST in 200KG extra weight, only benefit to R32 would be wet/slippy roads and snow conditions i think.
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I think with the Golfs you can look back over time and say which was the best of the "hot" ones as an all round package.
So, I would say MK1 1.8, MK2 16v, MK3 16v, MK4 R32, MK5 ED30 and MK6 - well have not owned or driven one but would have thought the R.
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I have a stage 2+ gti and think its great. My brother in-law had a stage 2+ ed30 which was also great. Both were pretty evenly matched up to around 100mph then the ed30 would steadily start to pull away. Thing is how fast do you wanna go and what are you wanting to use the car for. Personally if i had my time with one or the other again i would have gone ed30 stage1 . Plenty enough for road use imho. I do have to say though when i was at inters this year, i slaughtered a stage 2 ed30 down the strip. So who knows. I personally think dynos are a lottery. Its what the cars feel like on the road and mine feels damn quick. An example of the dyno lottey mine ran 303hp on stattlers dyno.
Did the eddy happen to have 3 passengers too and had literally just been flashed with a bugged stage 2 Revo map? :rolleye:
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And yes i did try a GTI out of curiosity before buying the Ed30 and I also drove my neighbours R32 a few months back, great grip off roundabouts, but felt very cumbersome to me (It does weigh almost 200KG more than ED30 and only has 19bhp more, believe me that 19bhp is LOST in 200KG extra weight, only benefit to R32 would be wet/slippy roads and snow conditions i think.
Aren't the MK5 R32's haldex on demand 4WD anyway? So unless your bollocking it it's FWD!
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And yes i did try a GTI out of curiosity before buying the Ed30 and I also drove my neighbours R32 a few months back, great grip off roundabouts, but felt very cumbersome to me (It does weigh almost 200KG more than ED30 and only has 19bhp more, believe me that 19bhp is LOST in 200KG extra weight, only benefit to R32 would be wet/slippy roads and snow conditions i think.
Aren't the MK5 R32's haldex on demand 4WD anyway? So unless your bollocking it it's FWD!
Always thought they were permanent 4WD then when you 'bollock it' as you put it :driver: they send more power to the back wheels?
Dave
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My mate has a 245bhpstripped out mk4 Ibiza Cupra (1.8T k03s). He was in mine and I was in his, he floored mine and I floored his (from 30mph) and he started pulling on my straight the way....
That shows how a k04 can pull from low down :happy2:
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I owned a mk4 with a k03s had all the bits on which took it to 250hp on jabbas rollers, in my opinion theres no comparison between mk4 and mk5 . Mk5 being way better as the engine is loads more torquier
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Why anybody would say gti is better than ed30 I don't know.
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Why anybody would say gti is better than ed30 I don't know.
So true and they know it
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Don't think anyone is saying Gti is better than a ed30, the question at start is is it worth the extra. That's down to what you want from the car imo
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Yeah its worth the extra outlay all day long. If your not going to mod at all ie no colour coding no nothing then yeah go for the Gti but if your going to colour and then tune it then want a ko4 you might aswell have bought the ed30 Oh and don't forget bbs wheels too
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As I said down to preference. I prefer monza 2's over the bbs rims. Hate rear bumper but like the black side skirts. S3 engine is only bonus imo as don't like the seats. But s3 engine outweighs it all. But I was happy to have a spec'd up Gti than borrowing more money to get ed30 as 300bhp doesn't bother me so much. 250bhp enough for abit of fun
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My mate has a 245bhpstripped out mk4 Ibiza Cupra (1.8T k03s). He was in mine and I was in his, he floored mine and I floored his (from 30mph) and he started pulling on my straight the way....
That shows how a k04 can pluu from low down :happy2:
This is the thing. I went from Ko3 to Ko4 on my vRS. I can honestly say i didn't even notice the difference in lag. Obviously it being a bigger turbo there will be more lag but the difference is minimal enough not to notice unless you try to notice it maybe.
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I also think it depends on the styling you prefer. I personally prefer the look of the standard car but with the 18" Monza shadows. They seem to fill the arches much better than the Pescaras. I was thinking about Ed 30, but as my car was far cheaper, and looked better to my eye, It was a no-brainer.
I'm going to use the saving on a stage 1 upgrade with Milltek stainless steel, and upgrade the brakes, DV and headlights. I reckon about 230 -240 bhp is about perfect for these cars, anymore and I can't see how you can get the power down in a 2wd car.
But, as said previously by someone else, it's all a matter of personal taste.
:driver:
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I also think it depends on the styling you prefer. I personally prefer the look of the standard car but with the 18" Monza shadows. They seem to fill the arches much better than the Pescaras. I was thinking about Ed 30, but as my car was far cheaper, and looked better to my eye, It was a no-brainer.
I'm going to use the saving on a stage 1 upgrade with Milltek stainless steel, and upgrade the brakes, DV and headlights. I reckon about 230 -240 bhp is about perfect for these cars, anymore and I can't see how you can get the power down in a 2wd car.
But, as said previously by someone else, it's all a matter of personal taste.
:driver:
I think the brakes are the Gti s let Down, there are quite a lot of options setups amongst the owners on here.
I can highly recommend the NQSBBK (not quite so big brake kit) super light, Porsche 4pots that go over Gti 312mm diss, plenty of stopping power, great pad choice and next to the massive brake kits very affordable. A search of NQSBBK should bring up the main topic about them :happy2:
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Cheers Mike, and I love the name! Not Quite So Big Brake Kit! Genius!
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Cheers Mike, and I love the name! Not Quite So Big Brake Kit! Genius!
Haha, linked you to the kit in your thread :happy2:
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Well i bought a standard mk5 gti fully loaded, after having a type r for abit (always have amk2 gti in the garage)
and after owning the type r i felt abit let down by the golf, its wasnt much fun nice smooth power
But not very exciting, i got offered good money for it so sold it within 3 weeks,
I then couldnt decide what to buy as i loved the build quailty of the golf but with out spending alot of money on tuning it wasnt going to excite me enough, so a friend let me borrow his edition 30 dsg
I fell i love within 10 mins of driving it.....its now running 297 bhp with a stage one map!
I drove it again once it had been tuned and within a week i was in a e30 and love it to bits it really does tick all the boxes, and to get that much power from a normal mk5 would cost far more and lets face it you never get your money back when tuning, near 300 bhp Is plenty good enough
The price has come down on them but i would say its worth the extra just because it will always sell for more.