MK5 Golf GTI

All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: Russ_leeds on November 05, 2011, 12:13:25 pm

Title: Which ARBS?
Post by: Russ_leeds on November 05, 2011, 12:13:25 pm
Hi all, I know this has prob been covered a million times, but as theres no search button....
Which ARBS are best to fit? What does the different thickness affect? and finally is it best to fit front and rear or just one?
Thanks for your help
Russ
Title: Re: Which ARBS?
Post by: sub39h on November 05, 2011, 09:33:33 pm
the way an ARB works is by affection the torsional rigidity at the side (i.e. front or back) the bar is fitted. the extra stiffness prevents roll abd therefore prevents the inside from lifting. by doing so increases grip and cornering speed by keeping more tyre in contact with the road for more of the time.

thicker on the front will generally increase understeer characteristics, and fitting rear will increase oversteer characteristics. fitting them both will keep the car neutral. in the Golf, which tends to understeer, it will benefit most from a rear ARB therefore. this is compounded by the fact that you need to drop the front subframe to fit the front ARB, which is both a pig and probably not cheap. hence it is common practice to do the rear ARB only as it's the better value-for-money mod.

which one is better is largely academic. two bars of equal thickness will do exactly the same job, so go on price, weight and convenience. some are adjustable (e.g. Whiteline). i want an Autotech one because they are lighter, but i am by no means an expert on the subject.

Title: Re: Which ARBS?
Post by: h4rdy on November 05, 2011, 09:41:15 pm
Its an hours labour to drop the subframe and refit it max and I would say a good Tech will have the Anti Roll bar on too.

The biggest problem, not with the Autotech but the brackets have issues, is the brackets are pressed together on the ARB by VW so they have to be broken and pressed back together.

BDMAlex can do this but I am glad I didn't as I was only changing my bushes and the rears creak so it would have been a nightmare.
Title: Re: Which ARBS?
Post by: the bruce on November 06, 2011, 10:44:51 am
Keep in mind from factory the Golf has bars both front and rear and I would
strongly recommend to strengthen both.
I would never just replace the rear bar on a street car. This is dangerous and
causes the ESP work more often than you might wish. Or does it make any
sense to switch off ESP on public roads?


ps:
Try the search. We had this topic many times before. I posted a table with
allmost all available ARBs including the data.
Title: Re: Which ARBS?
Post by: Hurdy on November 06, 2011, 11:19:42 am
Autotech had a few teething problems with their ARB brackets. I went through two before they uprated the thickness of them and after that I had no issues. They are very light given their strength, but you pay for it as they are almost twice as expensive as the Eibach's.

I'd always fit the same rigidity rated adjustable ARB's front and rear on the Golf, but then I'd go medium setting on the front and hard on the rear to dial out the inherent natural understeer that the Golf has.  :happy2:
Title: Re: Which ARBS?
Post by: Little_Dave on November 06, 2011, 05:05:21 pm
I'd always fit the same rigidity rated adjustable ARB's front and rear on the Golf, but then I'd go medium setting on the front and hard on the rear to dial out the inherent natural understeer that the Golf has.  :happy2:

Thanks Hurdy  :happy2: I'm looking to do this to mine and was wondering how to set them up, if i fitted front and rear, to reduce understeer and tighten things up a bit :happy2:

Dave
Title: Re: Which ARBS?
Post by: Russ_leeds on November 06, 2011, 05:56:29 pm



ps:
Try the search. We had this topic many times before. I posted a table with
allmost all available ARBs including the data.

which search button  :signLOL:
Title: Re: Which ARBS?
Post by: the bruce on November 06, 2011, 06:10:13 pm
Ok, I miss it as well. But of course no prob to have a look on several threads
though.  :wink:

The table contains almost all data (diameter and thickness of tubular bars) in
comparison - stock and aftermarket + ARB spring rates of stock and H&R bars.
I recommend the Whiteline bars which are both 24 mm front and rear though.

If you want to reduce understeer do not just reduce grip on rear. To increase
grip on front have a look on the TT arms which provide more camber without
any loss of ride comfort. The helpful item is the Whiteline ALK that gives you
0.5° more caster (and so more dynamic camber).
Title: Re: Which ARBS?
Post by: Kregiel on November 06, 2011, 06:15:10 pm
lads,
i might be going blind but no search box on my machine, used to have one now none

Title: Re: Which ARBS?
Post by: Tfsi_Mike on November 06, 2011, 06:18:55 pm
The search function ir undergoing maintenance. you can do an advanced google search and include the forum url in your search ;)
Title: Re: Which ARBS?
Post by: the bruce on November 06, 2011, 06:41:39 pm

http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,18771.0.html


http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,28835.0.html
Title: Re: Which ARBS?
Post by: tony_danza on November 06, 2011, 06:45:36 pm
You can dial out a load of understeer by changing the car's geometry, in particular the rear set up. It's all very "safe" out of the factory.
Title: Re: Which ARBS?
Post by: rich83 on November 06, 2011, 07:27:29 pm
Parallel rear toe mike? I'm gonna try that next year when it's dried up.
Title: Re: Which ARBS?
Post by: the bruce on November 06, 2011, 08:12:40 pm
Yes, that's why I am just on -1°10' on rear.
But more camber on front still remains the key to good handling on any front heavy car.
Title: Re: Which ARBS?
Post by: tony_danza on November 06, 2011, 08:32:27 pm
Exactly, knock off the toe-in and camber. That was on the original geo the early cars had, before Americans started throwing them on their roofs and VW changed it.

That said, you can always grow some bigger balls and steer from the rear..

Title: Re: Which ARBS?
Post by: Beddie on November 06, 2011, 08:50:44 pm
Parallel rear toe mike? I'm gonna try that next year when it's dried up.
As Mike has said Rich, this has made quite a difference to mine  :happy2:

Had mine done prior to the last Ring trip and really happy with how its set up now, definitely brings the rear into play more and feels like it's actually doing something now rather than just following the front round if that makes sense?

Also a really nice bonus seems to be that you can back it in to corners on the brakes a little now, rather like you can on a bike  :happy2:

Certainly seems to be a good set up all round for my style at least and defo worth a try imo, really clicked with the car at the Ring and Cadwell and for the first time i'm blistering the rears more than the fronts so the rear has defo become more mobile, love it!  :smiley: