MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Modifications & Technical Area => Performance Modifications => Topic started by: ktlstar on December 07, 2011, 05:16:23 pm
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Please dont bite my head off, just looking for opinions.
I am awaiting my exhaust being made up from BCS, and just ordered my Autotech hpfp from Rob@w8 performance (Good man/service).
So now its a decision to go Stage2 or Stage2+ ?
Is it a must to have a bigger intercooler ?
Is the engine safe at stage2+ ?
Ed30
Thank you
Eric
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2+ gives much more torque in the mid range and is safe providing it is set up and logged properly. On the other hand, people have said 2+ is a step too far and problems will develop over time.
Me, i went stg 1, stg 1+ (bdm cai with stg 1 map) and then straight to stg 2+. No problems so far accept a boost leak but plugs, filters, brakes etc all have to be changed more often so bear that in mind.
I say go 2+ and then you can scale it back to 2 quite easily if/when you want to.
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That is my concern, reading others with stage2+. The car is used weekend so it wont be thrashed about, but it would be nice to have the power upgrade i.e s2+.
Are you Revo Berg? What is the cost for the software ?
Thanks
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the software is cheap to go up in stages (£50) and Revo have a winter deal on at mo to get the map (check their site or local revo dealer).
its the hardware that costs a lot - intercooler, full tbe, hpfp, cai but to get the most out of that you need suspension/transmission/braking upgrades which cost the real $$
how long do you plan to keep the car? if not a long time i would prob stick at stg 1 and maybe get an itg on as well but ease to take back to standard.
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I am planning to go stage 2 with my Ed30, TBE, Twintake and remap, have thought about fuel pump upgrade but thats about as far as I will likely go as I dont want to be adding intercoolers, changing injectors or valves etc :happy2:
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Eric... what other modifications does your car have? Are you on stock suspension?
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Thanks for the replies guys.
Im on Revo stage 1 with ITG kit. AP coilovers is my suspension.
Berg- i will be keepin the car for a good 2-3 years.
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I am planning to go stage 2 with my Ed30, TBE, Twintake and remap, have thought about fuel pump upgrade but thats about as far as I will likely go as I dont want to be adding intercoolers, changing injectors or valves etc :happy2:
you dont need to change injectors, rods etc unless going stage 3/big turbo - the intercooler is definately recommended though - the forge twintercooler is easier to fit than the others if want to take off.
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So i recieved my Internals today *thanks again Rob* however still debating whether to fit it if i was to just stay at stage2 software or sell it on / keep the money for elsewhere ? Ideas?
I see that its benificial at even Stage1 remap.
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get them fitted, new cam follower too as a very cheap part :happy2:
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I'd say go for stage 2+. I have the equivalent on the apparently "weaker" ko3 engine which now has done 106k flawlessly. Done since 50k.
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Im a little bothered about going more than stage one as ive just bought the car and its 5 years old, i plan on keeping it for another 5 years so it will be an old car when i get rid, will it be ok running stage 2 or more ? What could the consequences be ?
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Im going Shark Stage 3 soon (stage 2+) As long as you service the car regularly there should be no real issues with the engine. Obviously when modifying parts do wear out quicker such as plugs. But I accept that as part of the modifying game. I wouldnt have any worries about fitting the HPFP internals as even standard cars benefit from them being fitted with no running issues. Just make sure you dont rush installing them as it can be costly when done wrong. Given the current weather and money not being a problem, I am going to get Shark to install it for me.
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Please dont bite my head off, just looking for opinions.
I am awaiting my exhaust being made up from BCS, and just ordered my Autotech hpfp from Rob@w8 performance (Good man/service).
So now its a decision to go Stage2 or Stage2+ ?
Is it a must to have a bigger intercooler ?
Is the engine safe at stage2+ ?
Ed30
i am in exactly the same position as you mate, getting the pump internals and debating about the intercooler. Have revo stage 2 on my ed30 with itg and a bcs tbe and dsg
Thank you
Eric
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Well I had a shark stage 3 on my car.
I've spent £4k trying to get the car right again., had a new new turbo and the engine rebuilt.
I dont thrash the car, no track days etc. Worst its ever had was 3 trips down the strip at inters, and I let it cool down properly after each run! No idea what caused the problem, but I wont be going back to stage 2+/3 again :scared:
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When they done the engine rebuild what did they find wrong?
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Needed new piston rings, valve stem oil seals etc. Car still not right, it's been in garages since the first week in September
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Running too lean , causing the engine to det ? Sorry to hear that about your engine.
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Running too lean , causing the engine to det ? Sorry to hear that about your engine.
According to the logs, it was running rich if anything!
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Too much timing ? Interesting.
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Thankfully mne is only the Octy Vrs so stage 3 will be about 280bhp. So for me stage 3 should be fine. Modifying is luck of the draw. You could have someone with identical mods as heavyd and it run perfect. Just the joys and woes of modifying
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Like all that has been said here, the higher the state of tune that you run the more knowledge and understanding of the car you need to understand all the variables at play - anyone running Stage 2+ in my mind should have a half decent knowledge about data logging using VCDS and, if running Revo, a clear understanding of boost, timing and fuelling settings and the relationships that these have on each other in order to optimise your tune, which will change during the year. I have had no issues running my car Stage 2+ (ED30) for the past 2 years and have done over 40k at this state of tune with no problems.
Looking after the car with frequent oil checks etc and high levels of general maintenance all help.
Dom
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Guess that's the benefits of revo. I just had to keep asking for map revisions to knock back timing or boost all the time. But in the end it must have been too late. I was using half a dipstick of oil every 250 miles before it went in for repair
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Whats the difference between stage2 and stage2+ software ?
Because i will be fitting the hpfp does it mean i will have to get the s2+ software ?
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Whats the difference between stage2 and stage2+ software ?
Because i will be fitting the hpfp does it mean i will have to get the s2+ software ?
You can safely install stage 2 software with an uprated hpfp but to get the max benefit of the pump you'll need software that caters specifically for it's inclusion i.e. stage 2+. :smiley:
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I see - So there is no point installing the HPFP is if i decide to stick with stage2 software ? Yet iv read in this review
http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,14350.0.html
That it helps alot even at Stage1. ?
Thanks
Eric
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It isnt a necessity, it with just give you a bit of extra mid range torque
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Dom, apart from the fact you have been the unluckiest Mk5 Golf owner on the planet :scared: Do you really think that Stage 2+/3 caused this damage? Or do you think the car has always had an inherent problem and the tuning just made it worse?
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Dom, apart from the fact you have been the unluckiest Mk5 Golf owner on the planet :scared: Do you really think that Stage 2+/3 caused this damage? Or do you think the car has always had an inherent problem and the tuning just made it worse?
Wish I knew mate. The car ran fine with superchips and PDT remaps, had no issues whatsoever, the hiccup with Revo was found on loads of cars after inters, and was down to the actual map and not the car.
All I know is, I've only had the car for about 3 weeks in the last 3 months, rest of time it has spent at the dealers, after the turbo was fitted and engine rebuilt, the intank fuel pump died, the low pressure fuel sensor died, and now the garage reckons the fuel regulator has died, and that HPFP has only done about 3000miles max since new! The milltek downpipe had all cracked around the flange, after scouring loads of places in the northe east to get it fixed, I ended up at a dead end, I phoned Milltek and managed to speak to Phill Millington, who chopped it off at the cat, and replaced the full exhaust upwards of the car for free :pomppomp: at least one good thing came of the whole experience :drinking:
Car has no power from 2000rpm - 4000rpm at all, overboosts like hell when the boost does actually finally come in at 3700rpm ( 2bar of boost). N75 has been replaced etc etc. Car still in garage, TPS isnt getting any HPFP's in until 4th january, so theres another few more weeks without the car....
I would only stick at stage 2 from now on, but obviously loads of people have been happy with it and had no issues, I'm just voicing my opinion :xmassmiley:
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Does stage2 or stage2+ software have to be done on a rolling road ? Or can it all be done on road ?
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They will just upload it to the car!
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Sorry i ment setup on a dyno? A local tuner say that it needs to be setup on a dyno? I think there trying to gain money off me nd pay for a dyno run aswell.Iv heard its just £50 +vat and no extra cost for setup?
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I don't see an issue with them charging for a dyno run to set stage 2+.
For instance a tuner selling revo stage 2+ charge £50+ vat. You have to consider they share that profit with revo so don't get the full share of money.
Also these tuners have invested in dynos costing well over £60000 so you can't blame them for trying to claw some money back on it imo
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Oh yeh i would same sell a dyno however i dont want to run a dyno. Just like the software and setup without a dyno if can be done :)
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Of course it can be done without a dyno :stupid:
As long as the car is datalogged, and the settings are tweaked to check timing pull etc.
If I were you I would rather pay the extra and get it setup on a dyno, at least that way you know you are getting the most out of the map.
When I got the shark stage 3, after datalogging, and about 3 file revisions from them, it looked good by the figures from datalogging, but when I got it put on the rolling road it only made 317bhp and 280lbs of torque. By driving down to them, and spending a full day there where they kept taking my car out every half an hour thrashiing the living daylights out of it, coming back into the workshop with the engine fans running, then turning the engine straight off etc etc (my brakes were goosed on the way homwe and it cost me nearly a £1000 to get them put right again) did I finally acheive 330bhp and 350 lb/ft of torque.
Would this have been solved by getting it setup properly on a rolling road from the first time the file was loaded onto the car???
I know what I would have chosen :popcornsoda:
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Good shout Heavyd, thank you Sir.
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Guys - Installed my TBE and popped down to get my stage 2 software. I didnt have my cam follower with me so no HPFP installed... However i am very happy with it so far.
The BTF values i think was B9 T6 F7
made 340hp on AMD rollers 370ftlb
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Goo dluck with those settings - IMHO boost and timing are running too high. Do you have the SPS switch? If not then these settings may be fine during this cold weather. I would be be expecting to see boost 8 and timing running a max of 5 to be honest.
Dom
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Dom - I thought this, however i have no vag com to log things nor do i know what settings to use. I dont have SPS switch either.
What about Fueling setting ? I see people use setting 9 on standard Pump
Is the settings dangerous for the engine then ?
Thanks
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made 340hp on AMD rollers 370ftlb
I wonder what those numbers would be on a reliable dyno... :xmassmiley:
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I would not like to comment on anything without doing some logging - setting the fuelling at 7 is safer as it is moving to a richer fuel mix, but without logging it is impossible to say whether it is optimal. Where are you based?
Dom
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Dom - I am in Kent and i am just pming NHN to buying VCDS :xmassmiley:
I am not going to worry to much as i should be jumping to stage2+ after new year so its all going to change!