MK5 Golf GTI

General => Detailing => Topic started by: RussZS on December 17, 2011, 03:25:44 am

Title: The result of 30 hours+ of wet sanding on an Edition 30...
Post by: RussZS on December 17, 2011, 03:25:44 am
As most of you will no doubt know, the Golf suffers terribly with 'orange peel' (uneven clearcoat), preventing our cars from looking as good as they otherwise could.

However, this can be rectified with the right processes, and I've spent the past 3 days or so learning how to address this with Kelly at KDS Keltec (you will have heard of him if you're on DW).

There will be a HUGE write up to follow, sharing my experiences of the training along with thoughts and findings on wet sanding but I thought I'd share this picture with you which sums up the experience for me.

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm8.staticflickr.com%2F7171%2F6523800469_6594666ab0_z.jpg&hash=c60ca11d74f61fe20b4f37a587c36cafcfecec5b) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/42262279@N04/6523800469/)
DSC02098 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/42262279@N04/6523800469/) by RussZS (http://www.flickr.com/people/42262279@N04/), on Flickr

Russ.
Title: Re: The result of 30 hours+ of wet sanding on an Edition 30...
Post by: stealthwolf on December 17, 2011, 03:39:57 am
Have been following the threads on DW.

TBH surprised you're still awake! Figured you'd be knackered by now with the work you've been doing. Love the wetsanding writeups that KDSKeltec do and definitely loved the bits you did show. Would love to see what the flake looks like now.
Title: Re: The result of 30 hours+ of wet sanding on an Edition 30...
Post by: RussZS on December 17, 2011, 03:42:58 am
I can't sleep for some reason!

I did also do this on the way home :(

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm8.staticflickr.com%2F7014%2F6523351277_298fb2fdc1_z.jpg&hash=4e0f8e79e055cddcbc5cab1bbfc6e8f8f33d2afd) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/42262279@N04/6523351277/)
DSC02100 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/42262279@N04/6523351277/) by RussZS (http://www.flickr.com/people/42262279@N04/), on Flickr
Title: Re: The result of 30 hours+ of wet sanding on an Edition 30...
Post by: stealthwolf on December 17, 2011, 03:45:46 am
Yikes! High kerb?

I think my front splitter needs a repair and respray at some point.
Title: Re: The result of 30 hours+ of wet sanding on an Edition 30...
Post by: RussZS on December 17, 2011, 03:51:18 am
Nope it was something on the motorway just before J4 on the M6. No idea what it was, but I thought the damage was much worse...
Title: Re: The result of 30 hours+ of wet sanding on an Edition 30...
Post by: Tfsi_Mike on December 17, 2011, 08:05:34 am

Good effort Russ.  Ouch about the splitter bet our heart sank when you heard the bang/crack

Kelly still have the M3? It must be down to the metal with all the sanding and polishing!
Title: Re: The result of 30 hours+ of wet sanding on an Edition 30...
Post by: maxload on December 17, 2011, 01:56:53 pm
The results are breathtaking , even before the correction! Like you say in your thread on DW, removing swirls is one thing , but wet sanding is on another level. Very inspiring work.
Looking forward to the full write up mate. Fancy a trip down south to work on my black eddy....  :happy2:
Title: Re: The result of 30 hours+ of wet sanding on an Edition 30...
Post by: jonm on December 18, 2011, 09:24:32 am
sweet
Title: Re: The result of 30 hours+ of wet sanding on an Edition 30...
Post by: RussZS on December 18, 2011, 03:08:12 pm
Full thread is here...

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=244507

 :xmassmiley:
Title: Re: The result of 30 hours+ of wet sanding on an Edition 30...
Post by: maxload on December 18, 2011, 05:49:58 pm
The final finish is just incredible , outstanding  :drool:
Title: Re: The result of 30 hours+ of wet sanding on an Edition 30...
Post by: Hedge on December 18, 2011, 06:58:02 pm
Wow!  :notworthy:
Title: Re: The result of 30 hours+ of wet sanding on an Edition 30...
Post by: stealthwolf on December 18, 2011, 10:06:44 pm
Just read the whole thing. Amazing! Too scared to do it myself but happy to go along for rotary tutorial. I'm getting fed up with my DA.
Title: Re: The result of 30 hours+ of wet sanding on an Edition 30...
Post by: RussZS on December 18, 2011, 10:19:27 pm
The results are breathtaking , even before the correction! Like you say in your thread on DW, removing swirls is one thing , but wet sanding is on another level. Very inspiring work.
Looking forward to the full write up mate. Fancy a trip down south to work on my black eddy....  :happy2:

I'd love to...

Thanks all  :santa:
Title: Re: The result of 30 hours+ of wet sanding on an Edition 30...
Post by: Top Cat on December 18, 2011, 10:54:46 pm
Very interesting Russ.  :happy2: I am going to ask a stupid question now, but i cant see you, so snigger away.  :P

So if a car needs a full correction does this method produce better results but still only take away the same amount of clear coat as normal techniques.  :happy2:
Title: Re: The result of 30 hours+ of wet sanding on an Edition 30...
Post by: RussZS on December 18, 2011, 10:58:22 pm
Very interesting Russ.  :happy2: I am going to ask a stupid question now, but i cant see you, so snigger away.  :P

So if a car needs a full correction does this method produce better results but still only take away the same amount of clear coat as normal techniques.  :happy2:

Hi Top Cat,

On average, a full correction detail would take 1-2 days, depending on the condition of the paint.

This process would take about 4-5 days in reality, so at least twice as long, as you essentially have a 5 stage hand sand THEN a correction detail on top!

Cheers,
Russ.
Title: Re: The result of 30 hours+ of wet sanding on an Edition 30...
Post by: Top Cat on December 18, 2011, 11:03:35 pm
Ah! ok, so how much clear coat is left after the sanding and the correction process. I noticed the depth before starting but does that measurement include the colour as well.  :ashamed:
Title: Re: The result of 30 hours+ of wet sanding on an Edition 30...
Post by: keith on December 18, 2011, 11:25:49 pm
excellent write up, a guy cam into my shop on saturday and mentioned this he was looking for uni grit papers. youve started something :smiley:
Title: Re: The result of 30 hours+ of wet sanding on an Edition 30...
Post by: vRS Carl on December 18, 2011, 11:41:36 pm
Outstanding  :notworthy: :notworthy:
Title: Re: The result of 30 hours+ of wet sanding on an Edition 30...
Post by: RussZS on December 19, 2011, 12:24:54 am
excellent write up, a guy cam into my shop on saturday and mentioned this he was looking for uni grit papers. youve started something :smiley:

Haha really?

Do you stock it btw?  I'll be needing quite a few sheets for what I now have planned...

Title: Re: The result of 30 hours+ of wet sanding on an Edition 30...
Post by: n_d_fox on December 19, 2011, 03:35:08 pm
Ah! ok, so how much clear coat is left after the sanding and the correction process. I noticed the depth before starting but does that measurement include the colour as well.  :ashamed:

Yes, the reading will be total coatings on the metal so will include any paint and clear coat... general rule of thumb is about 30-40 microns of clear coat on a OEM finish.

With Russ' car he started on the passenger wing with this
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm8.staticflickr.com%2F7161%2F6525736525_bf68e75bc2.jpg&hash=dd5b63c9668292ee5a2af487c5167e8580eb6262) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/42262279@N04/6525736525/)
DSC01850 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/42262279@N04/6525736525/) by RussZS (http://www.flickr.com/people/42262279@N04/), on Flickr

Wet sanded with 1500 and got this
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm8.staticflickr.com%2F7172%2F6525770849_d7fed12844.jpg&hash=fe82818056c17cb9d0377e2603166557da2b0116) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/42262279@N04/6525770849/)
DSC01871 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/42262279@N04/6525770849/) by RussZS (http://www.flickr.com/people/42262279@N04/), on Flickr

Then 2000 and got this
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm8.staticflickr.com%2F7149%2F6525802311_42c1307d88.jpg&hash=4591931cb22f925c548eabedab5891dad2b85851) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/42262279@N04/6525802311/)
DSC01892 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/42262279@N04/6525802311/) by RussZS (http://www.flickr.com/people/42262279@N04/), on Flickr

2500...
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm8.staticflickr.com%2F7018%2F6525809623_324a5e0303.jpg&hash=50c63e709e8384bb9ba49803738342b0b9950d71) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/42262279@N04/6525809623/)
DSC01895 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/42262279@N04/6525809623/) by RussZS (http://www.flickr.com/people/42262279@N04/), on Flickr

3000...
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm8.staticflickr.com%2F7151%2F6525817755_45e0198482.jpg&hash=c82d4edb08227b2b29ec6ce58cf57afb4f575cd0) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/42262279@N04/6525817755/)
DSC01904 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/42262279@N04/6525817755/) by RussZS (http://www.flickr.com/people/42262279@N04/), on Flickr

Then Scholl S3 on a Scholl wool pad = pretty aggressive. To remove the sanding marks
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm8.staticflickr.com%2F7161%2F6525844447_61e0b6f977.jpg&hash=0fee73061f27f6fe24975480f1b91ba1741f4d58) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/42262279@N04/6525844447/)
DSC01919 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/42262279@N04/6525844447/) by RussZS (http://www.flickr.com/people/42262279@N04/), on Flickr

Then refined with 3M polish and pad.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm8.staticflickr.com%2F7143%2F6525854401_fe8ee06b30.jpg&hash=58043dba057360c46f5c92f69cd66c49121f614b) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/42262279@N04/6525854401/)
DSC01923 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/42262279@N04/6525854401/) by RussZS (http://www.flickr.com/people/42262279@N04/), on Flickr

So as you can see... there is a total removal of around 4 microns which is very good for this type of defect removal... as Russ showed in the thread on DetailingWorld, on a softer paint he was able to remove 6-8 microns with a DA machine and the Megs MF system which is pretty scary !

It's obvious from the results gained that this process is about as good as you can get for getting the best possible finish but as Russ also said, its the time that it takes and the skills involved that make it the "extreme" end of detailing. Most people, although they would love the finish, wouldnt be able to justify the cost of having this done over a "normal" correction detail.

Sorry for the hijack Russ... was just looking at the pics from the set and thought i'd help you out  :happy2:

Regards, Nige
Title: Re: The result of 30 hours+ of wet sanding on an Edition 30...
Post by: Deako on December 19, 2011, 05:59:51 pm
Stunning Russ. Happy to see you finally complete this after we discussed it so long ago back in the summer. Excellent!!!
Title: Re: The result of 30 hours+ of wet sanding on an Edition 30...
Post by: WhiteGTI on December 19, 2011, 10:42:40 pm
That is incredible! Though, i wish i understood how on earth it worked?! I mean, sanding a car's paint to make it more shiny.....  :confused: eh???
Title: Re: The result of 30 hours+ of wet sanding on an Edition 30...
Post by: stealthwolf on December 20, 2011, 07:08:38 am
You make it flatter by evening out any peaks in the clearcoat. It's polishing but a bit more extreme. If there were no imperfections, it'd be a mirror!
Title: Re: The result of 30 hours+ of wet sanding on an Edition 30...
Post by: n_d_fox on December 20, 2011, 11:16:43 am
That is incredible! Though, i wish i understood how on earth it worked?! I mean, sanding a car's paint to make it more shiny.....  :confused: eh???

If you look at the full write up on DetailingWorld you will see pics of Kelly using a microscope type machine which is connected to his laptop and shows a very magnified image of the paint... in that pic you can see scratches which are not apparent to the naked eye.

Now imagine that scratched surface side on... it would look like a wavey / wiggly line.

When you machine polish a cars paint you flatten that wiggly line down a bit. Wet sanding does the same thing but at a much more intense level but as the pics show not by taking off much more of the clearcoat. The flatter the line the better the finish.

Title: Re: The result of 30 hours+ of wet sanding on an Edition 30...
Post by: jimk04 on December 20, 2011, 07:32:45 pm
Are the depth readings just the clearcoat or the base colour aswell.

If its both - how do you know the depth of the clearcoat that you are removing?!

My car now has aftermarket paint - (done at a VW dealers) - does this throw up an unknown regarding my paint depth?

Amazing job BTW....very impressed :happy2:
Title: Re: The result of 30 hours+ of wet sanding on an Edition 30...
Post by: stealthwolf on December 20, 2011, 07:56:22 pm
Dammit it didn't post.

Basically you can compare paint with that from the door sills/ inners where the clearcoat will be thin or nonexistent. Gives an idea. Respray will be thicker.
Title: Re: The result of 30 hours+ of wet sanding on an Edition 30...
Post by: JPC on December 20, 2011, 09:16:25 pm
good work russ!

Its certainly an asset to be able to properly wet sand. Its good to see you are taking training seriously, there are far too many people calling themselves detailers that would sh*t themselves when handed some sandpaper!

Title: Re: The result of 30 hours+ of wet sanding on an Edition 30...
Post by: RussZS on December 20, 2011, 10:34:22 pm
good work russ!

Its certainly an asset to be able to properly wet sand. Its good to see you are taking training seriously, there are far too many people calling themselves detailers that would sh*t themselves when handed some sandpaper!



Thanks Jay, and you're absolutely right.  When Kelly approached me it seemed like a great thing to do, and something I'd been talking to a couple of others about as I like to do these things properly.

I have noticed not many Pro's have commented on DW though... what do you make of that?

Thanks all - I now need to decide what to protect it with over Winter!!  :driver:
Title: Re: The result of 30 hours+ of wet sanding on an Edition 30...
Post by: Tfsi_Mike on December 20, 2011, 11:55:37 pm

Car looks like glass Russ  :drool: just had a propper read start to finish of the DW thread, fantastic work.  I must start saving for some hardcore tlc like that for the Cupra!
Title: Re: The result of 30 hours+ of wet sanding on an Edition 30...
Post by: craigy123 on December 23, 2011, 05:55:21 pm
Excellent work Russ.
Title: Re: The result of 30 hours+ of wet sanding on an Edition 30...
Post by: garyrosehearty on January 08, 2012, 05:47:18 pm
When black's clean it takes a lot to beat.  :smiley:
Title: Re: The result of 30 hours+ of wet sanding on an Edition 30...
Post by: Dave789 on January 08, 2012, 08:22:48 pm
I agree, looks very nice. when you get it looking that good its a shame to get it dirty again
Title: Re: The result of 30 hours+ of wet sanding on an Edition 30...
Post by: beetie on January 08, 2012, 09:52:55 pm
amazing work
Title: Re: The result of 30 hours+ of wet sanding on an Edition 30...
Post by: RussZS on January 09, 2012, 10:45:46 pm
Thanks all!

It's been wrapped shortly, which is a shame but an essential part of some training, then probably sold on... :(
Title: Re: The result of 30 hours+ of wet sanding on an Edition 30...
Post by: Greeners on January 09, 2012, 11:20:35 pm
Awesome stuff Russ! Can't knock your passion for all things detailing!  :congrats:
Title: Re: The result of 30 hours+ of wet sanding on an Edition 30...
Post by: markc on January 17, 2012, 11:57:13 am
Nice finish on my ex ED30 there....... :happy2: 
Title: Re: The result of 30 hours+ of wet sanding on an Edition 30...
Post by: RussZS on January 19, 2012, 03:38:58 pm
Nice finish on my ex ED30 there....... :happy2: 

I always wondered if the owner was on here!!

Whoever put the cambelt in did a bad job and it nearly snapped on me!!  Very lucky escape!  Did you ever have any problems with the car?

Russ.
Title: Re: The result of 30 hours+ of wet sanding on an Edition 30...
Post by: Tfsi_Mike on January 19, 2012, 04:33:10 pm
Nice finish on my ex ED30 there....... :happy2: 

I always wondered if the owner was on here!!

Whoever put the cambelt in did a bad job and it nearly snapped on me!!  Very lucky escape!  Did you ever have any problems with the car?

Russ.

How did that become apparent Russ?
Title: Re: The result of 30 hours+ of wet sanding on an Edition 30...
Post by: markc on January 19, 2012, 07:18:53 pm
Nice finish on my ex ED30 there....... :happy2:  

I always wondered if the owner was on here!!

Whoever put the cambelt in did a bad job and it nearly snapped on me!!  Very lucky escape!  Did you ever have any problems with the car?

Russ.

Hi Russ,

I had the Cam Belt done with the Tensioner (done under warranty due to a tapping noise, the water pump, rollers replaced, everything at VW Hyde.  I received a call from someone at VW about a month or so after I part exchanged the car, asking why the Cam Belt job was done for about 200 quid ? and he mentioned there was a problem with the work done (VW Hyde).   Due to the Tensioner noise, I only had to pay for parts, plus rollers and the water pump (which I asked to be changed) and also little bit of labour as I remember.
  
That was the only thing I ever had mechanicaly, done with the car apart from servicing.  Looked after it like a baby, detailed at Miglior.  Darren on here fitted the Cruise Control on it.   Im still gutted I sold it to be honest, loved that car.
Title: Re: The result of 30 hours+ of wet sanding on an Edition 30...
Post by: Richie18-1987 on January 27, 2012, 12:25:55 am
Hi Russ I'm new to this forum but i read your write up on you detailing your ed30 i have got to say your car looked absolutley amazing after you had finished with it but my question to you is how much would all that work cost to have done as i a 07 jetta and i was unfortunate enough to have some little kid go down the passenger side of my car with their push bike i had the scratches buffed out because they weren't that deep but now i have swirl marks in the paint that you can see when the car is clean and when the sun is shining which i know is a rare thing in england but when it does happen it annoys me because i can see them and would like the car to be detailed all over and relieve that orange peel of its dutie's  :signLOL:

Rich.
Title: Re: The result of 30 hours+ of wet sanding on an Edition 30...
Post by: RussZS on March 14, 2012, 04:54:11 pm
Just a quick update on this...

The front end of my Ed30 has picked up a fair few stone chips recently, plus sustainted damage on the way back from KDS, so as a follow on to this session I am going to Kelly's again for further tuition, but this time I will be learning how how to paint, firstly on a number of test panels ultimately leading to a full front end respray no my own car!

On the back of this and a few further sessions, I will be offering very high quality paintwork for very reasonable pricesi, including in house wheel refurbishment.

The panels on my car will all be stripped, prep'd, painted and wet sanded, then polished by me under Kelly's tuition.  I'm very excited and it'll be great to get my own car in immaculate condition - better than new arguably with the orange peel removed!

We also have been trained in the art of Dent Removal by the best in the buinsess, and will be offering this as a service during this year, all done in house rather than outsourcing the work!

Tinting and wrapping to follow... along with leather restoration.
Russ.
Title: Re: The result of 30 hours+ of wet sanding on an Edition 30...
Post by: RussZS on March 14, 2012, 04:57:05 pm
Nice finish on my ex ED30 there....... :happy2: 

I always wondered if the owner was on here!!

Whoever put the cambelt in did a bad job and it nearly snapped on me!!  Very lucky escape!  Did you ever have any problems with the car?

Russ.

How did that become apparent Russ?

It went into limp mode Mike, then died altogether on me!  There was a rogue bolt in the engine bay which the belt was catching on, wearing the material away...
Title: Re: The result of 30 hours+ of wet sanding on an Edition 30...
Post by: Tfsi_Mike on March 14, 2012, 05:18:32 pm

Oh dear  :scared:

Looking forward to the next instalment of kds training!
Title: Re: The result of 30 hours+ of wet sanding on an Edition 30...
Post by: stealthwolf on March 14, 2012, 08:33:51 pm
Russ, I presume you're not doing this all by yourself. Who's the rest of the team?
Title: Re: The result of 30 hours+ of wet sanding on an Edition 30...
Post by: Deako on March 15, 2012, 08:49:48 am
Just a quick update on this...

The front end of my Ed30 has picked up a fair few stone chips recently, plus sustainted damage on the way back from KDS, so as a follow on to this session I am going to Kelly's again for further tuition, but this time I will be learning how how to paint, firstly on a number of test panels ultimately leading to a full front end respray no my own car!

On the back of this and a few further sessions, I will be offering very high quality paintwork for very reasonable pricesi, including in house wheel refurbishment.

The panels on my car will all be stripped, prep'd, painted and wet sanded, then polished by me under Kelly's tuition.  I'm very excited and it'll be great to get my own car in immaculate condition - better than new arguably with the orange peel removed!

We also have been trained in the art of Dent Removal by the best in the buinsess, and will be offering this as a service during this year, all done in house rather than outsourcing the work!

Tinting and wrapping to follow... along with leather restoration.
Russ.

Nice Russ. Have you left the day job yet?  :grin:
Title: Re: The result of 30 hours+ of wet sanding on an Edition 30...
Post by: rich83 on March 15, 2012, 08:53:15 am
Russ I gunning for world domination by the looks of it.  :signLOL:
Title: Re: The result of 30 hours+ of wet sanding on an Edition 30...
Post by: RussZS on March 21, 2012, 05:57:09 pm
Haha!

I still have my day job but I have a close friend supporting me during the week now - he will be leading on tinting and wrapping.  A family member is providing smart repairs and dent removal then I will be the main detailer at weekends and evenings.

Some mid week cars will be prep'd by my mate, then I will machine polish and correct them.

Busy times ahead!

Russ.
Title: Re: The result of 30 hours+ of wet sanding on an Edition 30...
Post by: Saintsteve on March 21, 2012, 06:18:23 pm
Done mine recently, and know what its like  :scared: :scared:

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm8.staticflickr.com%2F7072%2F6857466284_a616178fd3_b.jpg&hash=e6b75734a87f634f561aab5bf725f51572cd8453)

to this

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm7.staticflickr.com%2F6097%2F7003590957_7956e4262f_b.jpg&hash=a152972aed637176f6870e991fcec5e780ffcf7f)