MK5 Golf GTI

All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: heavyd on December 21, 2011, 08:27:09 pm

Title: Car has no power?????- FIXED AT LAST!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: heavyd on December 21, 2011, 08:27:09 pm
Hello folks, just wondering if anyone could throw some ideas my way?
I eventually got the car back from the garage that changed the piston rings etc on my ed30.
They have given up trying to fix the car after 11 weeks.
The car has no power whatsoever until 4000rpm, then it picks up a bit, but nowhere close to what it should be. I'm talking foot flat to thE floor in 1st and 2nd gear on a wet road and it doesn't even wheelspin.
The car has no fault codes, but my Ross tech cable just gave up the ghost, so can't datalog.
Has anyone any ideas as to what it could be at all, as this has dragged on Since the beginning of September  :fighting:
Its on the verge of dangerous, as it takes about 4 seconds to pull away at a junction!
Any ideas are greatly appreciated :happy2:
Title: Re: Car has no power?????
Post by: Andy on December 21, 2011, 09:17:47 pm
they haven't put my engine in yours  :signLOL:
Title: Re: Car has no power?????
Post by: heavyd on December 21, 2011, 09:41:16 pm
they haven't put my engine in yours  :signLOL:
Believe me, I wish I had the power of the 130bhp passat that I handed back to them
Title: Re: Car has no power?????
Post by: Andy on December 21, 2011, 09:51:33 pm
Give Damo a a shout has he is near you with vag com
Title: Re: Car has no power?????
Post by: heavyd on December 21, 2011, 10:17:09 pm
Give Damo a a shout has he is near you with vag com
I'm booked into pdt next wednesday, it's too close to Christmas to try and get damo involved, by the time I could get him to have a look, it'll be in pdt!
Title: Re: Car has no power?????
Post by: Andy on December 21, 2011, 10:22:01 pm
arr no worries--
My mate has it--Viking(andy) if that helps
Title: Re: Car has no power?????
Post by: Wolf Burger on December 21, 2011, 10:54:36 pm
they haven't put my engine in yours  :signLOL:

This comment by maxitrol is not helpful at all being I spat coffee all over my laptop having read it.....Stop that  :smiley:

Not good
Title: Re: Car has no power?????
Post by: Janner_Sy on December 23, 2011, 11:31:39 am
Dom, have you had a look on ebay for a second hand KO4 engine minus all the ancillaries.  They're actually quite cheap if you have all the injectors, plugs, turbo, coil packs etc to swap on to it.

Iirc hurdy said stadtllers had a few engines kicking about.  It might end up cheaper to just change engine and be donecwith it rather than chading faults. There's obviously a deep failure or inherrent fault with your engibe that isn't the norm, hence why nothing seems to fix it
Title: Re: Car has no power?????
Post by: heavyd on December 23, 2011, 12:51:39 pm
I'll make judgement on Wednesday after pdtuning has had a look. On the way home yesterday, I could only manage 50mph with my foot flat to the floor on one stretch of road, even a 1ltr micra overtook me :surprised:
No fault codes logged either :confused:
Can't understand how it isn't throwing any codes when it has no power at all???
Title: Re: Car has no power?????
Post by: Andy on December 23, 2011, 12:53:00 pm
I'll make judgement on Wednesday after pdtuning has had a look. On the way home yesterday, I could only manage 50mph with my foot flat to the floor on one stretch of road, even a 1ltr micra overtook me :surprised:
No fault codes logged either :confused:
Can't understand how it isn't throwing any codes when it has no power at all???
sounds like its in limp mode--but strange thier is no fault codes
Title: Re: Car has no power?????
Post by: vRS Carl on December 23, 2011, 12:57:48 pm
Which of your Plethora of maps is on the car at the moment?

Reason i ask is it's not in Valet mode is it? Sounds similar to Valet Mode on the likes of REVO/APR etc.
Title: Re: Car has no power?????
Post by: Andy on December 23, 2011, 01:01:47 pm
Which of your Plethora of maps is on the car at the moment?

Reason i ask is it's not in Valet mode is it? Sounds similar to Valet Mode on the likes of REVO/APR etc.
didn't know you can do that with revo--you learn some thing new every day :happy2:
Title: Re: Car has no power?????
Post by: Tfsi_Mike on December 23, 2011, 01:04:57 pm
Which of your Plethora of maps is on the car at the moment?

Reason i ask is it's not in Valet mode is it? Sounds similar to Valet Mode on the likes of REVO/APR etc.
didn't know you can do that with revo--you learn some thing new every day :happy2:

I maybe quickly corrected but isn't 0 0 0 settings on revo the equivelant of my APRs valet mode?
Title: Re: Car has no power?????
Post by: vRS Carl on December 23, 2011, 01:08:28 pm
You have to set the Boost,Timing,Fuel to 0 with an SPS + switch on REVO (not sure if the others have a preset)

Edit: What Mike said.

Which of your Plethora of maps is on the car at the moment?

Reason i ask is it's not in Valet mode is it? Sounds similar to Valet Mode on the likes of REVO/APR etc.
didn't know you can do that with revo--you learn some thing new every day :happy2:

I maybe quickly corrected but isn't 0 0 0 settings on revo the equivelant of my APRs valet mode?

Yup it is. It sounds like that to me as that's what my car was like when i tried it out to see what it was like.
Title: Re: Car has no power?????
Post by: heavyd on December 23, 2011, 03:53:24 pm
Which of your Plethora of maps is on the car at the moment?

Reason i ask is it's not in Valet mode is it? Sounds similar to Valet Mode on the likes of REVO/APR etc.

Is in full stock mode
I got the car back the other month from them, after I had all the fuel pump issues and car cutting out problem sorted. I got this error message
000017 - Bank 1: Camshaft A (Intake): Retard Setpoint not Reached (Over-Advanced)
               P0011 - 004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent - MIL ON
They then moved the intake cam.
When I picked it up a few weeks ago it had no fuel in, and was on stage 1 shark, which felt crap, but didnt want to floor it as miles until empty was the same distance as the shell garage  :sad1:
 I then had stage 2 PDT loaded onto it, which felt as if it was less powerful than stock, it then dropped oil all on my drive aswell, so I took it straight back to the garage, I did a few logs, but the connection kept failing.
The garage has had it for weeks, and couldnt find anything wrong (they probably didnt try very hard as no £££'s were involved)
I then loaded to stock file on it.
The logs I managed to do showed that the boost used to meet requested at around 2300rpm. on the last short log I did, it met requested at 3700rpm? It then also overboosted to 2bar( 2960mb in VCDS)
My VCDS cable has now died, so I cant do any datalogging.
I hope they havent bent any valves when they set the cams wrong, as if they arent seating properly, it would explain the lack of power. The new turbo has only done about 1600 miles, I've had a new N75 fitted, swapped the MAF and diverter valve over, new low fuel pressure sensor, cam fiollower,  fuel filter, new intank fuel pump, HPFP has been used about 3 months from new, new piston rings, new valve stem oil seals etc etc
Was being overtaken by car transporters and HGVs today  :fighting:
Title: Re: Car has no power?????
Post by: Tfsi_Mike on December 23, 2011, 04:43:16 pm

Astounded by your bad luck Dom  :sad1:  :sick:
Title: Re: Car has no power?????
Post by: heavyd on December 23, 2011, 04:48:53 pm
Yep, wish I had stayed with the crap bluefin stage 2 last year and I mightnt have had to go through all of this :fighting:
Title: Re: Car has no power?????
Post by: vRS Carl on December 23, 2011, 05:22:01 pm
It could be something to do with the amount of Maps that are/have been on the ECU. Think of it like installing and then deleting program's on a PC. Some residual crap always gets left behind and this could be what's happened and is causing things to go wrong within the ECU.

Not saying this is definitely the case but if they can't find anything mechanically wrong I would either try a different garage or see if you can get another ECU from a scrap yard or something. Get a VW dealer to flash the ECU with a totally stock file not another tuner. This way you know the correct stock map is on the car. Or even go with Sy's suggestion of new engine.

I feel for you mate as you most certainly don't need this at anytime let alone just before Xmas.  :sad1:


Title: Re: Car has no power?????
Post by: vRSAlex on December 23, 2011, 08:48:55 pm
How can a garage give you back a car worse than when it arrived?  Such bad luck.  Is the garage not really interested in sorting the problems out?
Title: Re: Car has no power?????
Post by: PDT on December 23, 2011, 08:54:32 pm
How can a garage give you back a car worse than when it arrived?  Such bad luck.  Is the garage not really interested in sorting the problems out?

From the conversation I had with Dom, both VW that fitted the turbo and the garage that bodged the rebuild have given very poor service and no longer want to know. Dont know who did the rebuild but they have had the car for ages an claim theres nothing wrong with it.

Im taking a look over it next week, will hopefully be something simple.

Title: Re: Car has no power?????
Post by: vRSAlex on December 23, 2011, 08:59:20 pm
I hope you get to the bottom of it.  I would be going mad.

Dom, did you pay by credit card?
Title: Re: Car has no power?????
Post by: damoegan on December 23, 2011, 09:13:44 pm
I'm gutted for you, Dom  :sad1:
Title: Re: Car has no power?????
Post by: heavyd on December 23, 2011, 09:23:48 pm
I hope you get to the bottom of it.  I would be going mad.

Dom, did you pay by credit card?
Don't think it would have made any difference. There's another lad on here with his car at same garage, it's been there longer than mine, mine was 2 months or so. If you hadn't been so far away Alex, I would have used yourselves, but an hours drive any a courtesy car swung the decision unfortunately.
Went in with oil use and ended up with a 50 bhp car! I'm going to have to get a RR graph showing the least powerful ed30 in the country :rolleye:
One problem I had was they thought the fuel pump was faulty, as vagcom said it needed to be 2000-7000mb.
Mine was faulty as it only read 4bar :signLOL:
Title: Re: Car has no power?????
Post by: vRSAlex on December 23, 2011, 09:28:53 pm
Would have had it done in two days for ya mate (heads for cover).

Do they also think that it boosts to 2500 bar? Lol
Title: Re: Car has no power?????
Post by: heavyd on December 23, 2011, 09:42:06 pm
Would have had it done in two days for ya mate (heads for cover).

Do they also think that it boosts to 2500 bar? Lol
:fighting: :fighting: :fighting: :fighting: :fighting: :fighting:
hindsight is a fine thing :xmaspresent:
Title: Re: Car has no power?????
Post by: Andy on December 23, 2011, 10:42:19 pm
Mine is at the same garage and reading about Doms car am really concerned about mine now,its been there since august :stupid:
Just like to say sorry to Dom for recommending them
Title: Re: Car has no power?????
Post by: PDT on December 23, 2011, 11:19:03 pm
Maybe they like 'looking after' mk5's
Title: Re: Car has no power?????
Post by: heavyd on December 24, 2011, 10:38:04 am
Mine is at the same garage and reading about Doms car am really concerned about mine now,its been there since august :stupid:
Just like to say sorry to Dom for recommending them
Not your fault mate, I asked you about the garage!
Your car has moved a couple of times in the last few weeks, so fingers crossed for you.
It only happened after they moved the inlet camshaft and fitted the milltek Downpipe. I can get an ECU for £199 and an engine for £1600, hopefully I wont need them, and PDT will come to the rescue :notworthy:
Title: Re: Car has no power?????
Post by: Andy on December 24, 2011, 10:49:38 am
mine is back together now,they are just making sure its all ok before handing it back to me,they were supposed to ring me this week to keep me up dated but no phone call :fighting:..Why did they move the cam shaft! wonder if its out slightly or knocked a sensor hopefuly Dave will sort it out on wed fingers crossed :happy2:
Title: Re: Car has no power?????
Post by: Janner_Sy on December 29, 2011, 05:54:05 pm
Did you contact statllers?  I'm pretty sure hurdy said they have a few KO4 engines in their workshop
Title: Re: Car has no power?????
Post by: heavyd on December 29, 2011, 06:50:56 pm
Its been in PDTuning for a checkup. Dave phoned me today to say they had put the inlet cam in wrong, so he's going to put it back to where it should be hopefully tomorrow :notworthy: :notworthy:
Fingers crossed, I might have my car fixed for the new year :pomppomp: :congrats:
Only been 4months since it went in to the first garage :xmaspresent:
Title: Re: Car has no power?????
Post by: MAT ED30 on December 29, 2011, 06:59:13 pm
 :jumpmove: nice one its good to have people like this on the forum
Title: Re: Car has no power?????
Post by: damoegan on December 29, 2011, 07:16:12 pm
At last, some good news Dom  :smiley:

Good work Dave  :happy2:
Title: Re: Car has no power?????
Post by: Hedge on December 29, 2011, 07:26:22 pm
How the fook did they set the inlet cam up wrongly.  :confused:
Title: Re: Car has no power?????
Post by: Janner_Sy on December 29, 2011, 07:36:19 pm
Id be demanding money ba k if you paid for it
Title: Re: Car has no power?????
Post by: Andy on December 29, 2011, 07:44:38 pm
Bloody hell that's shocking if that what it is
Title: Re: Car has no power?????
Post by: vRS Carl on December 29, 2011, 07:50:36 pm
Was the name of the Garage Heath & Robinson ltd :confused:

I would be in there getting my money back and also speaking the VW Customer services. I'd be asking to see the mechanics qualifications too as he clearly shouldn't be working if they set the Inlet Cam up wrong. I would have thought it would only fit one way?
Title: Re: Car has no power?????
Post by: PDT on December 29, 2011, 07:56:41 pm
Hi Dom, tried everyone I know to get hold of a camshaft locking tool today (mine has gone missing during the recent move) but most people are closed. Luckily I have managed to order one so as soon as it arrives I will get that camshaft out, checked and refitted.

Exhaust cam and cramkshaft are aligned perfectly but inlet cam is approx 25-35 degrees out. Tried to get a photo for you but it is difficult to see whats wrong on a pic but feel free to call in tomorrow and Mark will show you.

Tbh I am not impressed with a lot of the work that has been done, bolt on cambelt cover took over an hour to get off, had to drill and gently chisel it off, will replace with a new bolt. Massive excess of silicon sealent used on mating faces meaning it had squeezed into the camshaft housings, wont cause drect damage but if the loose bits get into the oil it can cause blocked oil pipes/feeds/passages.

Instead of using triple square sockets on crank pulley bolt it looks like a similar sized normal hex socets have been used causing damage to the 'flats' of the bolt. There is also a minor leak somewhere behind the engine which I will look at.
Title: Re: Car has no power?????
Post by: Andy on December 29, 2011, 07:58:48 pm
Better check they haven't put my engine in up side.down when I pick mine up :signLOL:
Title: Re: Car has no power?????
Post by: Andy on December 29, 2011, 08:01:52 pm
Sure Dom posted some where that they moved the in let cam when they were doing the miltek front pipe
Title: Re: Car has no power?????
Post by: PDT on December 29, 2011, 08:02:21 pm
Was the name of the Garage Heath & Robinson ltd :confused:

I would be in there getting my money back and also speaking the VW Customer services. I'd be asking to see the mechanics qualifications too as he clearly shouldn't be working if they set the Inlet Cam up wrong. I would have thought it would only fit one way?

Inlet cam runs off a chain driven by the exhauts cam at opposite end of the timing belt. (behind HPFP) it has no definite position, when refitting a camshaft the belt end should be timed to TDC and camshafts locked in place with correct tool before aligning the cams to fit the timing chain. If you dont remove the cam cover and fit this locking tool its easy to get the inlet camshaft position incorrect. You then need to remove the locking tool, tension the chain, rotate engine through 2 full cycles (4turns of crank pulley) and re-check all timing marks.  Simple stuff really.
Title: Re: Car has no power?????
Post by: PDT on December 29, 2011, 08:06:20 pm
Sure Dom posted some where that they moved the in let cam when they were doing the miltek front pipe

Yes, he had a fault code 'inlet cam retardation point not reached' so they moved the cam. But its a possibility they did this 'blind' i.e without removing cam cover and using the locking tools etc....

Whatever they did, the fact is that the cam is not correct. Good news it that this ties up with the lack f fault codes and lack of power at low rpm.

Title: Re: Car has no power?????
Post by: Andy on December 29, 2011, 08:11:49 pm
Nice one,hopefully this sorts it out once and for all then ring the garage up on the 3rd Jan for some money back
Title: Re: Car has no power?????
Post by: PDT on December 29, 2011, 08:13:58 pm
Whats yours having done Andy?
Title: Re: Car has no power?????
Post by: heavyd on December 29, 2011, 08:20:29 pm
Thanks for the info Dave. sounds like I got a great garage there then eh........
Andy has had exactly the same thing done to his as I had, except his has been stripped back down again a couple of times.
Doubt I'll be getting a refund, they were twisting they had lost money on the job 6 weeks ago, so doubt they'll be putting any £££'s my way :sad1:
Title: Re: Car has no power?????
Post by: Andy on December 29, 2011, 08:21:47 pm
God where do I start :signLOL:
As you know its been eating turbos,its had new rings but that was my idea,head sent away with new valve stem oil seals and the valves grounded back in,oh and another turbo but its supposed to hold more boost if that can be done
Title: Re: Car has no power?????
Post by: vRSAlex on December 29, 2011, 08:39:38 pm
Its not even a hard job to get the cams lined up correctly without the tool!  But to get them that far out.  :fighting:

Give them the bill from PDT and if they wont pay it then take them to the small claims.
Title: Re: Car has no power?????
Post by: Andy on December 29, 2011, 08:45:58 pm
Its not even a hard job to get the cams lined up correctly without the tool!  But to get them that far out.  :fighting:

Give them the bill from PDT and if they wont pay it then take them to the small claims.
Think that's the route i would go down Alex
Title: Re: Car has no power?????
Post by: heavyd on December 29, 2011, 09:09:06 pm
Yes it would be nice, but I cant see me ever getting a refund. I've only got the bill for the initial engine rebuild from the other month.
They havent charged me since that, no other invoices for any of the other rectification work that they have done in the last couple of months that they have had the car for.

I just hope for andy sake they havent made the same mess of his car :sick:
Title: Re: Car has no power?????
Post by: Andy on December 29, 2011, 09:12:18 pm
Hope not mate that's if I.ever get it back :signLOL:
Title: Re: Car has no power?????
Post by: Hedge on December 29, 2011, 09:17:36 pm
Post the feckers a turd by way of a thanks.  :evilgrin:
Title: Re: Car has no power?????
Post by: Janner_Sy on December 29, 2011, 09:23:21 pm
Post the feckers a turd by way of a thanks.  :evilgrin:

 :grin: :grin: havent heard that word for years.  Definitely needs a come back
Title: Re: Car has no power?????
Post by: PDT on December 29, 2011, 09:40:12 pm
Its not even a hard job to get the cams lined up correctly without the tool!  But to get them that far out.  :fighting:

Give them the bill from PDT and if they wont pay it then take them to the small claims.

Yes, could do it by eye without the tool but for the sake of waiting 48hrs for the correct tools Id rather wait.
Title: Re: Car has no power?????
Post by: vRSAlex on December 29, 2011, 10:35:55 pm
Its not even a hard job to get the cams lined up correctly without the tool!  But to get them that far out.  :fighting:

Give them the bill from PDT and if they wont pay it then take them to the small claims.

Yes, could do it by eye without the tool but for the sake of waiting 48hrs for the correct tools Id rather wait.

I was more refering to us good mechanics being able to do it without the tool, but using the tool is by far the best option if its available.  :happy2:
Title: Re: Car has no power?????
Post by: heavyd on December 30, 2011, 01:11:15 pm
Heres a photo, anyone can cleary see theyre not right!

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fb150%2Fheavyd123%2Fcams.jpg&hash=f07ed2198ef114c677785bc35dba9fd8d21d08e8)
Title: Re: Car has no power?????
Post by: damoegan on December 30, 2011, 01:13:10 pm
Jesus, thats miles out  :surprised:
Title: Re: Car has no power?????
Post by: MAT ED30 on December 30, 2011, 01:14:05 pm
 :surprised: wow that's bad
Title: Re: Car has no power?????
Post by: Hedge on December 30, 2011, 01:16:13 pm
Does Stevie Wonder work there?  :surprised:

Post them 2 turds.  :evilgrin:

What are the possibilities of valve - piston interference?  :scared:
Title: Re: Car has no power?????
Post by: rich83 on December 30, 2011, 01:18:40 pm
They need shopping to trading standards. (and 2 turds posting as Hedge suggests)
Title: Re: Car has no power?????
Post by: vRS Carl on December 30, 2011, 04:22:23 pm
I wonder if they thought they should be mirror images :confused:

Bellends!
Title: Re: Car has no power?????
Post by: Andy on December 30, 2011, 05:01:41 pm
bloody hell thats shocking--wonder what faults mine will come back with :rolleye:
Title: Re: Car has no power?????
Post by: muckipup on January 03, 2012, 11:16:13 am
Good grief - that's awful!

I can understand the value of going the trading standards route but I'm with Ian on this one....with all the hassle that will be involved, probably better just to post s**t through their letter box!  :laugh:
Title: Re: Car has no power?????
Post by: heavyd on January 03, 2012, 01:51:34 pm
They said theyre going to pay PDTuning for whatever corrective work that they do, remains to be seen though.
On another downside, I had to go to A&E last week, paid 2 hrs parking, but was stuick in a cubicle with doctors for over 3 hours.
Nothing was on the windscreen. But the garage have been given a parking ticket through one of those privately owed magic Eye parking companies.
My luck never ceases to amaze me!
Title: Re: Car has no power?????
Post by: Andy on January 03, 2012, 01:56:46 pm
They said theyre going to pay PDTuning for whatever corrective work that they do, remains to be seen though.
On another downside, I had to go to A&E last week, paid 2 hrs parking, but was stuick in a cubicle with doctors for over 3 hours.
Nothing was on the windscreen. But the garage have been given a parking ticket through one of those privately owed magic Eye parking companies.
My luck never ceases to amaze me!


i thought i was unlucky Dom born on the 13th of April which also is a friday :signLOL:Just taxed my car again and insured it,lets see if i get more than 3 weeks  driving with the new tax disc.
Title: Re: Car has no power?????
Post by: robdf2 on January 04, 2012, 07:03:57 pm
Hi Dom your car sounds like the exact same as my car except mines a seat.

Did you not have any fault codes with the inlet cam being so far out?

How far out actually was it ? Reason I ask is mine was out like yours been like that for 3 years  and was found at the end of 2011 after 3 odd years of complaining !

I'm going to post a pix up of mine if that's ok ?
Seems to be a common be group blunder !

Is there a rule for the amount of degrees out sapping x amount of   BHP?

I had huge timing pull on my car   , bad fuel economy and constant misfires , I'm in the process of taking seat to court.

Since mines been fixed I have my power back and my fuel economy has increased by about 50 miles to a tank !
Feel for you buddy.
Rob
Title: Re: Car has no power?????
Post by: Andy on January 04, 2012, 07:10:56 pm
glad you got yours sorted Rob--who fixed your car in the end
Title: Re: Car has no power?????
Post by: Viking on January 04, 2012, 07:31:53 pm
Andy, remember me telling you I didn't trust that lot....  :signLOL:

As clangers go, that camshaft cock up is way up there.  :confused:
Title: Re: Car has no power?????
Post by: Andy on January 04, 2012, 07:36:41 pm
Sure  is,I think they have sold my car :signLOL:
Title: Re: Car has no power?????
Post by: robdf2 on January 04, 2012, 07:56:53 pm
glad you got yours sorted Rob--who fixed your car in the end

Thanks mate.

mine was diagnosed and fixed by a seat dealership in west london
took them 2 days to find the problem which 3 other dealerships and a head seat technician couldnt find !

pics below

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fuu256%2Frobdf2%2F20110920_003.jpg&hash=696c323d61235e93f925c8af3ee7689f9c89bd04)

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fuu256%2Frobdf2%2F20110920_002.jpg&hash=aff3ae265bf614ca6c0b3fcf1485859769b82ebf)

you can see in the second picture that the cam locking tool will not engage into the slot in the cam shaft.
and in the first picture you can see that the locking tool will not sit down and touch the top of the cylinder head.
for 3 years i was told there is nothing wrong with my car !

Sorry to hijack your thread Dom.

Rob.
Title: Re: Car has no power?????
Post by: PDT on January 04, 2012, 08:00:56 pm
Good news is that doms car is now back in 1 piece, test drive / compression test and datalogging tomorrow. List of faults/mistakes found so far:

1 inlet cam out by 30 degrees
2 oil leaking from cam chain casing - no sealent applied to mating faces
3 cambelt cover bolts rounded off
4 exhaust cam end bolt overtightened (should be 25nm + 70 degrees)
5 crankshaft bolt NOT replaced during build
6 over application of sealent to camshaft housing causing loose silicon to drop into cylinderhead
7 excess silicone sealent blocking oil passages in camshaft bearing assembly
8 excess silicon sealent compressed into spark plug apetures in cylinder head


Rounded bolts and all other faults now rectified so dom should have his car back tomorrow  :smiley:
Title: Re: Car has no power?????
Post by: PDT on January 04, 2012, 08:03:34 pm
glad you got yours sorted Rob--who fixed your car in the end

Thanks mate.

mine was diagnosed and fixed by a seat dealership in west london
took them 2 days to find the problem which 3 other dealerships and a head seat technician couldnt find !

pics below

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fuu256%2Frobdf2%2F20110920_003.jpg&hash=696c323d61235e93f925c8af3ee7689f9c89bd04)

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fuu256%2Frobdf2%2F20110920_002.jpg&hash=aff3ae265bf614ca6c0b3fcf1485859769b82ebf)

you can see in the second picture that the cam locking tool will not engage into the slot in the cam shaft.
and in the first picture you can see that the locking tool will not sit down and touch the top of the cylinder head.
for 3 years i was told there is nothing wrong with my car !

Sorry to hijack your thread Dom.

Rob.




^^^ very similar to Doms, what did they do with yours? Adjust camshaft?
Title: Re: Car has no power?????
Post by: Hedge on January 04, 2012, 08:04:53 pm
That is a pretty shocking list of ailments.


I suppose the $64,000 question is which map?  :wink:
Title: Re: Car has no power?????
Post by: robdf2 on January 04, 2012, 08:12:09 pm
glad you got yours sorted Rob--who fixed your car in the end

Thanks mate.

mine was diagnosed and fixed by a seat dealership in west london
took them 2 days to find the problem which 3 other dealerships and a head seat technician couldnt find !

pics below

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fuu256%2Frobdf2%2F20110920_003.jpg&hash=696c323d61235e93f925c8af3ee7689f9c89bd04)

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fuu256%2Frobdf2%2F20110920_002.jpg&hash=aff3ae265bf614ca6c0b3fcf1485859769b82ebf)

you can see in the second picture that the cam locking tool will not engage into the slot in the cam shaft.
and in the first picture you can see that the locking tool will not sit down and touch the top of the cylinder head.
for 3 years i was told there is nothing wrong with my car !

Sorry to hijack your thread Dom.

Rob.




^^^ very similar to Doms, what did they do with yours? Adjust camshaft?

fitted a new cylinder head , im on number 3 now , a new one for each year i have owned the car lol.
how far out do you think my camshaft is from my pics?
SEAT said it was within tolerance LMFAO !
Title: Re: Car has no power?????
Post by: PDT on January 04, 2012, 08:20:08 pm
Yours is out by a silmilar amount, maybe a bit less. It is the opposite to Doms though, i.e turned too far the other way.
Title: Re: Car has no power?????
Post by: robdf2 on January 04, 2012, 08:31:29 pm
Yours is out by a silmilar amount, maybe a bit less. It is the opposite to Doms though, i.e turned too far the other way.

So should the inlet camshaft lobes be pointing in the same direction as the exhaust  lobe in my picture ? my exhaust lobe is low and the inlet is pointing high
Title: Re: Car has no power?????
Post by: heavyd on January 05, 2012, 02:14:41 am
Yours is out by a silmilar amount, maybe a bit less. It is the opposite to Doms though, i.e turned too far the other way.

So should the inlet camshaft lobes be pointing in the same direction as the exhaust  lobe in my picture ? my exhaust lobe is low and the inlet is pointing high
The cam lobes behind the black setting block are the setting lobes. exhaust lobe(left ) should be at 2 oclock, and the inlet lobe(right) should be at 10 oclock.
So yours is pointing at 12 oclock, mine was pointing at 8 oclock.

Thanks Dave, hopefully I might have a car that works tomorrow :pomppomp: :xmaspresent: :laugh:
It''ll be interesting to see the garages views on your findings, I bet my wallet will be taking yet another hit :sad1:
That is a pretty shocking list of ailments.


I suppose the $64,000 question is which map?  :wink:
Stock map  :fighting:
Stage 1 shark and PDT stage 2 was overboosting to 2 bar so looks like I'm out of that game, hopefully one day I might be able to run the PDT stage 2 map I have, shark performance wont do me a stage 2 map, so the most I can go from them is the stage 1 I have, as no more stage 2+ from me, hard lesson learned this time :sad1:
Title: Re: Car has no power?????
Post by: robdf2 on January 05, 2012, 01:13:30 pm
Dave ,

Can you post a picture (if you have 1?) of the position of the camshafts when they are set correctly for future reference , for anyone else who seems to be having this problem , its strange that me and Dom have both had similar issues.
Title: Re: Car has no power?????
Post by: heavyd on January 05, 2012, 01:20:45 pm
from vw workshop manual
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fb150%2Fheavyd123%2Fed30cams.gif&hash=6b5db27503f15b8a0ddf402a4757efb5e23c29fd)
Title: Re: Car has no power?????- FIXED AT LAST!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: heavyd on January 05, 2012, 02:49:37 pm
Got car back, its suprising how fast a stock Edition 30 is when you havent driven one for a while :driver:
Thanks to Dave at PDtuning for sorting it out in the end :congrats:
Now lets see if I can recoup some of this 7hr labour bill back from the so far un-named Vw specialist.....................
Title: Re: Car has no power?????- FIXED AT LAST!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: PDT on January 05, 2012, 02:57:31 pm
glad you are back to where you should have been weeks ago, shame someone elses mistakes have cost you more money. :happy2:
Title: Re: Car has no power?????- FIXED AT LAST!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Hedge on January 05, 2012, 03:03:53 pm
 :congrats:
Title: Re: Car has no power?????- FIXED AT LAST!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Andy on January 05, 2012, 03:41:07 pm
brilliant news Dom--now are you going to leave it standard :signLOL:

Excellent work by Dave :notworthy:
Title: Re: Car has no power?????- FIXED AT LAST!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: damoegan on January 05, 2012, 04:33:07 pm
Glad its all sorted, Dom  :smiley:

Good work, Dave  :happy2:
Title: Re: Car has no power?????- FIXED AT LAST!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Steve Baker on January 05, 2012, 04:37:06 pm
 :congrats: :congrats:
Title: Re: Car has no power?????- FIXED AT LAST!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Janner_Sy on January 05, 2012, 05:08:54 pm
And now.........id sell it
Title: Re: Car has no power?????- FIXED AT LAST!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: vRS Carl on January 05, 2012, 05:11:13 pm
Glad it's all sorted now.

Now name and shame  :evilgrin:
Title: Re: Car has no power?????- FIXED AT LAST!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Nodz on January 05, 2012, 05:27:54 pm
Glad its all sorted, seems like its gone on forever. But you had a fun drive home   :driver:
Title: Re: Car has no power?????- FIXED AT LAST!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: robdf2 on January 05, 2012, 06:11:33 pm
its a good feeling when you finally get the car fixed

enjoy driving it mate , well done Dave , shame you were not local to me i would have used you as well !

Thanks for the post of the head Dom , where can i acceses that mate?
Title: Re: Car has no power?????- FIXED AT LAST!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Janner_Sy on January 05, 2012, 06:44:49 pm
Dom, just thinking out loud.

YOu havent tried APR so get yourself the stage4 APR big turbo upgrade, we all want to see how it compares  :driver:
Title: Re: Car has no power?????- FIXED AT LAST!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Andy on January 05, 2012, 07:05:28 pm
Dom, just thinking out loud.

YOu havent tried APR so get yourself the stage4 APR big turbo upgrade, we all want to see how it compares  :driver:
think Dom will be enjoying his car again before or if he starts modding it again :signLOL:
Title: Re: Car has no power?????- FIXED AT LAST!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: PDT on January 05, 2012, 07:09:32 pm
And now.........id sell it


I agree.
Title: Re: Car has no power?????- FIXED AT LAST!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Janner_Sy on January 05, 2012, 07:11:53 pm
Dom, just thinking out loud.

YOu havent tried APR so get yourself the stage4 APR big turbo upgrade, we all want to see how it compares  :driver:
think Dom will be enjoying his car again before or if he starts modding it again :signLOL:
Ill just post a few pics in all the threads dom posts in.  Its all about subliminal information stimuli

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.turbo-kits.com%2Fimages%2Fparts%2Fapr_20t_fsi_stageIII_turbo_kit.jpg&hash=41166f1a7a83fef8febf1c7810dcbf73481cd8bb)
Title: Re: Car has no power?????- FIXED AT LAST!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: PDT on January 05, 2012, 07:12:34 pm
 :signLOL:
Title: Re: Car has no power?????- FIXED AT LAST!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Andy on January 05, 2012, 07:13:09 pm
Dom, just thinking out loud.

YOu havent tried APR so get yourself the stage4 APR big turbo upgrade, we all want to see how it compares  :driver:
think Dom will be enjoying his car again before or if he starts modding it again :signLOL:
Ill just post a few pics in all the threads dom posts in.  Its all about subliminal information stimuli

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.turbo-kits.com%2Fimages%2Fparts%2Fapr_20t_fsi_stageIII_turbo_kit.jpg&hash=41166f1a7a83fef8febf1c7810dcbf73481cd8bb)
:signLOL:
Title: Re: Car has no power?????- FIXED AT LAST!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Janner_Sy on January 05, 2012, 07:14:46 pm
i thought it said turbokits.com, on the water mark, but on second glance it says turbokits.dom  :laugh:
Title: Re: Car has no power?????- FIXED AT LAST!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: rich83 on January 05, 2012, 07:16:05 pm
 :congrats:

So glad its sorted, youve had nothing but problems with this car. Lets hope it keep its self in check for a while.  :happy2:
Title: Re: Car has no power?????- FIXED AT LAST!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Andy on January 05, 2012, 07:17:41 pm
hopefully if the car gets remapped it will be spot on with no trouble
Title: Re: Car has no power?????- FIXED AT LAST!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: heavyd on January 05, 2012, 07:44:46 pm
hopefully if the car gets remapped it will be spot on with no trouble

Think I'll be leaving it stock for a while!
The only map that will ever go back on is the pdtuning stage 2, it's the only one I haven't had any hassle with.

its a good feeling when you finally get the car fixed

enjoy driving it mate , well done Dave , shame you were not local to me i would have used you as well !

Thanks for the post of the head Dom , where can i acceses that mate?
No idea where you can get it from sorry mate
Title: Re: Car has no power?????- FIXED AT LAST!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: robdf2 on January 05, 2012, 07:47:24 pm
Is it time to name and shame yet?
Title: Re: Car has no power?????- FIXED AT LAST!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: daz_pd on January 05, 2012, 08:07:46 pm
Im just a casual observer and havent been following this thread really, but one thing Im curious about, from all the different people who mapped your car, did no one do any logging before slapping their map on it? I would consider it bad to stick on a map regardless of whether the car was working properly or not!
Title: Re: Car has no power?????- FIXED AT LAST!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: robdf2 on January 05, 2012, 08:48:46 pm
I think to be fair  , Dom was trying to rule out the
Maps. Causing his issues , like he said some maps worked  better than others
Title: Re: Car has no power?????- FIXED AT LAST!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: heavyd on January 06, 2012, 01:57:41 am
Dom, just thinking out loud.

YOu havent tried APR so get yourself the stage4 APR big turbo upgrade, we all want to see how it compares  :driver:
think Dom will be enjoying his car again before or if he starts modding it again :signLOL:
Ill just post a few pics in all the threads dom posts in.  Its all about subliminal information stimuli

(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.turbo-kits.com%2Fimages%2Fparts%2Fapr_20t_fsi_stageIII_turbo_kit.jpg&hash=41166f1a7a83fef8febf1c7810dcbf73481cd8bb)

This kit looked interesting until I saw it cost £7798.80 inc fitting :scared:

Im just a casual observer and havent been following this thread really, but one thing Im curious about, from all the different people who mapped your car, did no one do any logging before slapping their map on it? I would consider it bad to stick on a map regardless of whether the car was working properly or not!

Nothing really to do with it I hope, although in the back of my mind it may have been a map that caused all the hassle, but dont really want to go pointing fingers :popcornsoda:
Title: Re: Car has no power?????- FIXED AT LAST!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Andy on January 06, 2012, 08:59:13 am
at least now you can enjoy your car as its been a long time coming and you won't be over taken by a lorry :signLOL:
Title: Re: Car has no power?????- FIXED AT LAST!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Tfsi_Mike on January 06, 2012, 10:26:30 am

Im glad this problem has being highlighted again as it's an expensive, frustrating widely unknown problem.  Really sorry its at Rob & Doms expense, felt the frustration every step of the way with both cars.

Glad you're back on the road Dom!
Title: Re: Car has no power?????- FIXED AT LAST!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: keano on January 06, 2012, 10:34:40 am
Really pleased for you Dom. Even told the mrs, but she wasn't too bothered to be honest! :grin: :innocent:

We'll have to organise our stage 2 maps now everything is okay! :drinking:
Title: Re: Car has no power?????- FIXED AT LAST!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: heavyd on January 06, 2012, 01:08:55 pm
Really pleased for you Dom. Even told the mrs, but she wasn't too bothered to be honest! :grin: :innocent:

We'll have to organise our stage 2 maps now everything is okay! :drinking:

All I have to do is plug my shark sts unit in and I have my PDT stage 2 map loaded onto the car in 15 mins :laugh:

The garage has admitted it was their fault and are alledgedly going to send me a cheque to pay for the work PDT did on my car :drinking:
Will be a nice result if it arrives :congrats:
Title: Re: Car has no power?????- FIXED AT LAST!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Tfsi_Mike on January 06, 2012, 01:13:33 pm
Really pleased for you Dom. Even told the mrs, but she wasn't too bothered to be honest! :grin: :innocent:

We'll have to organise our stage 2 maps now everything is okay! :drinking:

Women!  :stupid: lol
Title: Re: Car has no power?????- FIXED AT LAST!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: robdf2 on January 06, 2012, 04:48:44 pm
Really pleased for you Dom. Even told the mrs, but she wasn't too bothered to be honest! :grin: :innocent:

We'll have to organise our stage 2 maps now everything is okay! :drinking:

All I have to do is plug my shark sts unit in and I have my PDT stage 2 map loaded onto the car in 15 mins :laugh:

The garage has admitted it was their fault and are alledgedly going to send me a cheque to pay for the work PDT did on my car :drinking:
Will be a nice result if it arrives :congrats:

Good end to a sad story and I have shared your pain the whole way.

Why is it though that main dealers are never wrong even when you prove things to them wrong ?
I had exactly the same oil leak as you caused by no gasket and the dealer tried to fix it for 9 months 
Title: Re: Car has no power?????- FIXED AT LAST!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: GTI Osprey on January 06, 2012, 05:13:35 pm
Just wanted to add my piece - well done for keeping things slick and sensible in the toughest of times. The easiest way would have been to name and shame but you kept your integrity. :congrats:

Good things to good people ... :innocent:

Enjoy the beast!

Title: Re: Car has no power?????- FIXED AT LAST!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Andy on January 08, 2012, 04:59:12 pm
How is the car going Dom
Title: Re: Car has no power?????- FIXED AT LAST!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: damoegan on January 08, 2012, 05:25:30 pm
You got yours back, Andy?
Title: Re: Car has no power?????- FIXED AT LAST!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: heavyd on January 08, 2012, 05:35:16 pm
How is the car going Dom

I loaded the map on, (as one of my mates was considering trading his clio 197 in for an edition 30, and was curious as to what they are like mapped)  and it runs great, the missus thinks its goes the best its ever been, one of my mates said the same aswell.
It had a bit of an oil leak, but the top of the gearbox was caked in oil where it had been dripping down where they hadnt put any sealant on the timing chain cover, I gave it a blast with the karcher, and havent spotted any oil spots since yesterday morning, so looks like its all good at last :drinking:
The cheque didnt turn up yesterday, but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt until next weekend :confused:
Fingers crossed for you tomorrow mate :happy2:
Title: Re: Car has no power?????- FIXED AT LAST!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: PDT on January 08, 2012, 06:36:29 pm
Dom, im 99% sure the leak is just that, residual oil from where they didnt seal the cam chain housing. We ran it for about 90 mins in total after cleaning the underside of the engine with degreaser and didnt see any drips of oil.

Which map did you load?
Title: Re: Car has no power?????- FIXED AT LAST!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: heavyd on January 08, 2012, 07:00:24 pm
I think youre right Dave. I've thrown a pile of sand on the drive now to catch any drips if there are any  :laugh:
I loaded the PDT stage 2 on, I'll probably be be taking it off tomorrow as I dont want to run it too long as I cant do any datalogging.
Its the only map that I've got that I trust! I havent got an uprated HPFP anymore so wont be going stage 2+ ever again either
Title: Re: Car has no power?????- FIXED AT LAST!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: robdf2 on January 10, 2012, 10:55:05 am
One thing that has puzzeled me with my problem and Also Doms........

What the hell does the cam shaft position sensor do which is located on the inlet cam at the timing belt end?

surely with mine and Doms issues this should have thrown up a code?

or is this just a proximetry sensor thats senses there is still a camshaft there?
Title: Re: Car has no power?????- FIXED AT LAST!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: PDT on January 10, 2012, 02:52:30 pm
it tells the ECU the position of the camshaft, i.e which stroke it is on such as intake/exhaust etc... cam position is important for the ECU to know when to inject fuel.

If the camshaft is out then the output from the sensor still shows as correct, hence no fault code. but cam timing is out so valves are opening/closing at the wrong time.
Title: Re: Car has no power?????- FIXED AT LAST!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Andy on January 10, 2012, 04:59:53 pm
You got yours back, Andy?
tonight--infact at 5.30 pm :party: :pomppomp:
Title: Re: Car has no power?????- FIXED AT LAST!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Viking on January 10, 2012, 05:43:48 pm
Yay.  :happy2:

See how long it lasts this time.  :party:
Title: Re: Car has no power?????- FIXED AT LAST!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: damoegan on January 10, 2012, 06:52:52 pm
You got yours back, Andy?
tonight--infact at 5.30 pm :party: :pomppomp:

Any good, then?
Title: Re: Car has no power?????- FIXED AT LAST!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: heavyd on January 10, 2012, 07:27:27 pm
Come on Andy, spill the beans? :party:
Title: Re: Car has no power?????- FIXED AT LAST!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Andy on January 10, 2012, 07:32:11 pm
Hooray its all fixed not one bit of smoke,I was going a bit on the way home and for got about a corner and had to brake hard :ashamed:
Title: Re: Car has no power?????- FIXED AT LAST!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: damoegan on January 10, 2012, 07:42:38 pm
Hooray its all fixed not one bit of smoke,I was going a bit on the way home and for got about a corner and had to brake hard :ashamed:

  :jumping:   :driver:
Title: Re: Car has no power?????- FIXED AT LAST!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Andy on January 10, 2012, 07:44:43 pm
good job i had them r32 brakes on i went into a sharp right at 70mph :surprised:
Title: Re: Car has no power?????- FIXED AT LAST!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: robdf2 on January 10, 2012, 07:56:46 pm
it tells the ECU the position of the camshaft, i.e which stroke it is on such as intake/exhaust etc... cam position is important for the ECU to know when to inject fuel.

If the camshaft is out then the output from the sensor still shows as correct, hence no fault code. but cam timing is out so valves are opening/closing at the wrong time.

Thanks for that Dave   :notworthy:
do i take it this sensor just runs off the intake cam?

my exhaust popped and banged for ever when my timing was out and also my car ran rich with the timing being pulled , my fuel consumption was utter crap  , since the timing has been put right fuel is good about 50 more miles to a tank  no more popping  :smiley: and importantly no missfires (touch wood)

Where my timing was out my intake valves looked like detonation was occuring and leaking back behind the valve heads leaving a ring of caked on crap around the valve seat.

Also i had the same overuse of silicone sealent and oil leaks from the head  :sad1:
Title: Re: Car has no power?????- FIXED AT LAST!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Tfsi_Mike on January 10, 2012, 08:35:31 pm

I couldn't find a dealer in germany willing to get in the special 'tool' to check the cams / timing when I had the pesky misfire.

I'm still interested in having it checked tbh
Title: Re: Car has no power?????- FIXED AT LAST!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: PDT on January 10, 2012, 09:13:25 pm
Can check it by sight, or borrow the tool from a local garage. Not much work to take the cam cover off for a quick check.
Title: Re: Car has no power?????- FIXED AT LAST!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: heavyd on January 10, 2012, 09:21:01 pm

I couldn't find a dealer in germany willing to get in the special 'tool' to check the cams / timing when I had the pesky misfire.

I'm still interested in having it checked tbh

http://www.lasertools.co.uk/item.aspx?cat=316&item=3879
Title: Re: Car has no power?????- FIXED AT LAST!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: martziniuk on January 10, 2012, 09:53:22 pm

I couldn't find a dealer in germany willing to get in the special 'tool' to check the cams / timing when I had the pesky misfire.

I'm still interested in having it checked tbh

http://www.lasertools.co.uk/item.aspx?cat=316&item=3879
£87 inc on fleabay
Title: Re: Car has no power?????- FIXED AT LAST!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Tfsi_Mike on January 10, 2012, 09:58:35 pm

Thanks both ^

Useful posts.  :happy2: