MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: Mk5 GTian on January 01, 2012, 08:04:31 am
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I wondered if you could help me on this.
I'm struggling to get off the line from stand still as quickly as I'd like. I have come into a Mk5 from a Mk4 V6 4Motion, which was brilliant to get away, due to the 4wd and instant traction. I'd simply release the clutch quickly, with the throttle going in the other direction at the same speed, and I'd be gone, often embarassing far more powerful motors.
All I'm getting is wheelspin when I try this in my manual MK5. I'd really appreciate your descriptions of your techniques to balance speed of clutch off / power on to get away as quickly as possible without spinning the front wheels. Meanwhile, I'm off to go and practice!
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Short shifting is the way forward at this time of year!
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Cheers Oli.
So you swap instant power and torque for grip, but I guess you need to get into second almost as soon as you're moving, without trying to get too much power down whilst in first?
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As above, short shifting but also tyre choice makes a massive difference in wet and cold conditions. Make sure you're running good quality tyres
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As above, shirt shifting lifting but also tyre choice makes a massive difference in wet and cold conditions. Make sure you're running good quality tyres
Are you getting off topic? :wink:
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As above, shirt shifting lifting but also tyre choice makes a massive difference in wet and cold conditions. Make sure you're running good quality tyres
Are you getting off topic? :wink:
:signLOL: I would say tyres aswell are a big factor
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As above, shirt shifting lifting but also tyre choice makes a massive difference in wet and cold conditions. Make sure you're running good quality tyres
Are you getting off topic? :wink:
Haha, bloody iPhone :driver:
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Short shifting is the way forward at this time of year!
At any time of year :wink:
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Pirelli P Zero Rosso's, assymetric pattern with 1,000 miles on them, so I'm confident it's not a tyre issue.
I'm really looking for technical driving advice. I just went out and tried short shifting, getting into second earlier than I normally would, and that helped a bit, but I'd still really appreciate your experience with this.
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Pirelli P Zero Rosso's, assymetric pattern with 1,000 miles on them, so I'm confident it's not a tyre issue.
I'm really looking for technical driving advice. I just went out and tried short shifting, getting into second earlier than I normally would, and that helped a bit, but I'd still really appreciate your experience with this.
Just practise, its hard to tell someone what to do with there feet. It will be different technique every time the conditions change. Just try varying the launch revs.
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I'm no driving expert, but some thoughts...
You might want to check your geo, it might be out, and have it set up for best traction and contact patch for a straight line (this will compromise setup a bit for the corners).
The rest is about timing and how you use the throttle, as you accelerate the weight is being thrown to the rear of the car and reducing pressure on the front tyres, which reduces grip, when you change gear the weight will momentarily lurch forwards giving more grip, if you can be as smooth as possible going into second and progressively back on the power it will help to keep a bit more weight over the front compared to if you slammed the power back on, which would just over lighten the front reducing grip again.
The second area to think about is at what revs the turbo comes in and adjusting your throttle controll to make is as smooth as possible.
With your 4wd car you didn't have to worry as much about the weight being flung to the back as the car was getting extra grip and drive from the rear as you took off. It's the inherent weakness of FWD that makes launching harder.
That's my 2 pennies worth :D
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Can someone please explain technically how to use short-shifting in accelerating from stand-still to avoid wheel-spin?
For example, how quickly should you get into second gear? Is there an optimum rpm in first gear at which you should change up? Or is it a case of using first until you feel the car start to lose it's initial traction? I just tried it in my Mk5, and could use some advice!
I've never really had problems in the past. My Mark 2 16V was brilliant, and you could get all the power down quickly in any weather, and my last Mk4 was 4wd. Help me please, very frustrated!
:rolleye:
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Short shifting.
Changing gear at lower RPM. So on the GTI it would mean changing gear at about 3000rpm instead of 6500rpm.
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Launch around 2000rpm foot to the floor as you may bog down otherwise. As soon as you lose traction change to second and keep your foot planted until its time for 3rd. Thats pretty much how i launch on the 1/4mile and did a 12 sec run :driver:
Tbh it defo does depend on tyres and how warm they are to what you can get away with when launching. R888s nice and warm you may get away with 3000rpm and later shift to second but you just have to feel for the grip.
I never short shift to third its very important to hit third in the "sweet spot" for a good run.
At this time of year, your never gonna be able to launch well your pretty much wasting your time tbh wait till summer :rolleye:
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I dont think the mk5 gti is a bad car for getting of the line tbh, sure more skill is envolved than the 4 motion.
Tyres are a big factor and this time of year doesnt help !
Although on a dry good day id fancy the gti over the 4 mo !
With a little extra power and rubbish tyres i was launching my gti to 60 in 5.6 seconds
And my edition 30 was doing it in 5.2 secs and i wasnt at all happy with the tyres,
I dont think you can just dump the clutch and stomp on the accelerator i found that you need to be progressive with the throttle and thats in perfect conditions, in the damp and wet i never even tryed tbh
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Launch around 2000rpm foot to the floor as you may bog down otherwise. As soon as you lose traction change to second and keep your foot planted until its time for 3rd. Thats pretty much how i launch on the 1/4mile and did a 12 sec run :driver:
Tbh it defo does depend on tyres and how warm they are to what you can get away with when launching. R888s nice and warm you may get away with 3000rpm and later shift to second but you just have to feel for the grip.
I never short shift to third its very important to hit third in the "sweet spot" for a good run.
At this time of year, your never gonna be able to launch well your pretty much wasting your time tbh wait till summer :rolleye:
So, holding it on the clutch, take revs to 2000, then release clutch quickly at same time as burying your foot into the carpet?
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I dont think the mk5 gti is a bad car for getting of the line tbh, sure more skill is envolved than the 4 motion.
Tyres are a big factor and this time of year doesnt help !
Although on a dry good day id fancy the gti over the 4 mo !
With a little extra power and rubbish tyres i was launching my gti to 60 in 5.6 seconds
And my edition 30 was doing it in 5.2 secs and i wasnt at all happy with the tyres,
I dont think you can just dump the clutch and stomp on the accelerator i found that you need to be progressive with the throttle and thats in perfect conditions, in the damp and wet i never even tryed tbh
Were you getting those timeson standard power outputs? Thanks for the advice by the way.
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Launch around 2000rpm foot to the floor as you may bog down otherwise. As soon as you lose traction change to second and keep your foot planted until its time for 3rd. Thats pretty much how i launch on the 1/4mile and did a 12 sec run :driver:
Tbh it defo does depend on tyres and how warm they are to what you can get away with when launching. R888s nice and warm you may get away with 3000rpm and later shift to second but you just have to feel for the grip.
I never short shift to third its very important to hit third in the "sweet spot" for a good run.
At this time of year, your never gonna be able to launch well your pretty much wasting your time tbh wait till summer :rolleye:
So, holding it on the clutch, take revs to 2000, then release clutch quickly at same time as burying your foot into the carpet?
With R1R's and in summer that worked for me although at this time of year forget it.
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Thanks a lot guys, some really good technical stuff there. That's what I was after!
I take your point about the weather though! It's little wonder I can't get away in this! I look forward to trying these in the summer.
I do miss that instant 4wd traction in all weathers though! Maybe a Mk4 R32 is in order for next winter. Always wanted one.
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Around 2500-3000rpm is good for the gti depending on weather cond obviously, but give it some revs, bring the clutch up (not too fast) and soon as u feel grip feed in the power. With any fwd car especially with higher torque lowdown getting off the line quick can be a bit slower than rwd/4wd
Shifting around 5000-5500rpm is ideal as iirc this is where peak torque is delivered. 6500-7000rpm is ok if your really giving it beans is first or second.
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Ian, just stick with the GTI as you've come from a car that keeps traction well. I had the same issues, my previous car was an Impreza STi. It took a while to appreciate that you can't just apply gas blithely whatever the road conditions.
Obviously, acceleration causes the front to lift, & the rear to squat, hence it's easiest to lose traction under power in a front drive car. I once found I was overtaking on a wet road (between Oban & Kinlochlevin) and was lighting up in third under power (standard car, DSG). You learn to moderate the throttle as well as grabbing a higher gear if necessary. It soon becomes second nature. I must admit I regretted (briefly) turning down the R32 for the GTI but not for long. In the Impreza it was a case of foot to the floor & let the AWD sort it out. With the GTI you'll feed in the throttle in a more gradual fashion. Unless you have DSG in which case it's launch control and away we go :evilgrin:
Stick with it, it's much more rewarding when you get it right :driver:
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along with straight line alignment you can raise the rear a bit to get more load on the front axle during acc. :smiley:
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i've found with the default clutch if even slightly engaged, even if you've already been past biting point, will bog the car down in 1st, however you cant rush it otherwise you risk stalling - it's a fine art and i find i bog down more times out of ten but i got a sweet launch at the lights today and i did it by progressively squeezing the accelerator whilst more swiftly releasing the clutch (but still relatively progressively) once i'd exceeded biting point. No wheel spin and a big grin on my face was the result. :driver:
The grin was removed about 30 mins later when i kerbed it, up until then all 4 wheels were pristine, now it's down to 3 :sick:
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i've found with the default clutch if even slightly engaged, even if you've already been past biting point, will bog the car down in 1st, however you cant rush it otherwise you risk stalling - it's a fine art and i find i bog down more times out of ten but i got a sweet launch at the lights today and i did it by progressively squeezing the accelerator whilst more swiftly releasing the clutch (but still relatively progressively) once i'd exceeded biting point. No wheel spin and a big grin on my face was the result. :driver:
The grin was removed about 30 mins later when i kerbed it, up until then all 4 wheels were pristine, now it's down to 3 :sick:
Sorry to hear about your wheel. My Mrs does it about once a week on mine, so I'm not bothering to get them refurbed until she gets her VW Up.
It seems like a right old polava launching in these motors! I hope it's a lot better once we get into summer, or I'm going back to 4wd. I always launched superbly in my 4Motion, and always had a big smile on my face. I know there's a lot more skill involved, but It sounds like there's also a lot of dissapointment too! I got bogged down the other day, and got beaten off the line by a 320Ci, which was frankly embarassing! I am seriously thinking of chopping it in for a Mk4 R32. I don't want to only be able to launch in dry or warm weather!
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seriously keep at it because my launch yesterday was so good i'm still smiling now thinking about it. Yes it was a rarity for me but then i don't tend to race off the line at lights that often so i don't really have the practise. The fact that i beat a DB7 made it all the more sweeter - ok to keep things in perspective he didn't quite go for it like i did but he thought he was going to beat me without really trying and he did want to get ahead of me as the two lanes at the light quickly merge once you've crossed the junction.
I've just about come to terms with the kerbing, but i haven't forgiven myself for being such a goonie :rolleye:
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A nice, dry day today, so Ihad a few practices, and did some really good launches.
Holding the car just below the biting point, revvving at 2000rpm, then, once at the biting point, quickly, but progressively (not dumping it) releasing the clutch, and progressively giving full throttle up to about 5500 rpm before changing into second.
I was getting a little flicker of the ESP, but none of that horrible bogged down feeling. So much better. I'll try it with the ESP turned off tomorrow and see how that goes.
Thanks for all the tips, Like some of you have said, it's all about practice. It was very satisfying to start getting it right though.
:driver:
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Excellent, good work! Puts a smile on the face doesn't it? :jumping:
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Yup, odd as it sounds, slipping the clutch is actually the fastest way of getting it going. You can do the same 2nd-3rd too.
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I checked to see if my DSG has launch control active and it doesn't :-(
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Excellent, good work! Puts a smile on the face doesn't it? :jumping:
Certainly does mate, and thanks for the encouragement! :happy2:
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Yup, odd as it sounds, slipping the clutch is actually the fastest way of getting it going. You can do the same 2nd-3rd too.
I can see that now, and you need at least 1800 - 2000 rpm whilst holding it at stationary. That was the main thing I was doing wrong. I was tryiing to launch in the same way as I did in my 4Motion, which was to hold it on the clutch, engine at 800-1000 rpm, then dump the clutch and right foot into the carpet!! Worked very well when I could get power down through 4 wheels, but I've learnt that my GTi is a completely different animal!
This has been a good learning experience, especially as I'm going for more power in the coming months!
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You will never get traction like a 4WD with a front wheel drive car with decent power. Especially this time of year when the roads are slippy. I am running winter tyres just now and run michelin pilot sport 3's normally and the difference in traction is unbelievable. Rubber does play a big part. I owned a stage 2+ S3 before my GTI and you could launch it in the wet and it wouldn't spin, that was alot of fun :happy2:
I can imagine! My old 4Motion was brilliant off the line, regardless of weather, but I went for a MK5 GTi for so many other reasons other than launching. I'm working on the technique for launching when I get a dry day, but I get so much more than in my MK5 in all other aspects of driving, that it's shortcomings as a front wheel drive are very few. The handling and steering feel are so much better than in almost everything I've ever driven, and those are the most important aspects for me. Not being the best launching tool in winter is a small price to pay! That said, being able to lauch with ease in all weathers is missed to a point, as you can tell from this thread!
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The handling and steering feel are so much better than in almost everything I've ever driven, and those are the most important aspects for me. Not being the best launching tool in winter is a small price to pay!
I agree, for a front wheel drive car, it's handling is pretty good given the amount power that goes through the wheels. The steering is very good, nice and communicative and the power assist is not overly intrusive.
Have you tried a Porsche? They have great steering. Or even better still a Caterham or any Elise type derivative with no power steering, for me they define and set the benchmark for pure steering feel, with them you are hard-wired to the tyres.
I wish car manufacturers in their sports models would put in a switch to give you the option to fade out the power assist completely after 30mph or a speed of your choosing.
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The handling and steering feel are so much better than in almost everything I've ever driven, and those are the most important aspects for me. Not being the best launching tool in winter is a small price to pay!
I agree, for a front wheel drive car, it's handling is pretty good given the amount power that goes through the wheels. The steering is very good, nice and communicative and the power assist is not overly intrusive.
Have you tried a Porsche? They have great steering. Or even better still a Caterham or any Elise type derivative with no power steering, for me they define and set the benchmark for pure steering feel, with them you are hard-wired to the tyres.
Porsche? I've never driven one, as I'll only drive a car if I can afford to buy it. I drove an SL55 at Brooklands, and I was gutted for days afterwards when I had to hand it back! A Porker is a bit out of my league at the moment, as I'd only ever want a 911. But who knows, in the future I'd love a 997, and with the launch of the 991, early 997 Carrera 2's can be had for 25k.