MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Modifications & Technical Area => Performance Modifications => Topic started by: danishmkvgti on January 20, 2012, 06:56:41 pm
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As i have just recieved a set of TT mk 2 front Hubs from DaveB :drinking: to replace the S3 units i have currently on my GTI. It gave a possibility to compare the GTI/S3/TT mk2 lower control arms and hubs to eachother.
When arranging the parts i couldn't believe the weight of the steel GTI/R32 front hubs :surprised:
Feel free to add comments or questions, as i have the parts for 14 days before fitting, so any questions should be answered.
I have at the time being measured the length of the 3 arms and the distance from lower point of wheel bearing to ball joint contact area.
:happy2:
All three lower control arms:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi715.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fww160%2Fjakethemoss%2FIMG_3636netversion.jpg&hash=e397ce56cf83de60deee4938cd908d77a871cbdd)
Length of GTI arm:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi715.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fww160%2Fjakethemoss%2FIMG_3637-netversion.jpg&hash=6398f2cf06d4caf7d6f6ef64c96c95faae8521d6)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi715.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fww160%2Fjakethemoss%2FIMG_3638_rettet.jpg&hash=e910b35c678167f7277e81c6bb2dd523e377e10e)
Length of S3/Cupra arm:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi715.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fww160%2Fjakethemoss%2FIMG_3640-netversion.jpg&hash=31a16b067c4ad40a2ba2a85e225f046ad4b5e498)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi715.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fww160%2Fjakethemoss%2FIMG_3639-netversion.jpg&hash=4e89d97f1f76543a308a73dd4d4f23be561bb1b8)
TT mk 2 arm (shorter than the rest :surprised: )
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi715.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fww160%2Fjakethemoss%2FIMG_3641-netversion.jpg&hash=7b0249ae5738778632bd4ed10458cc11134b6902)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi715.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fww160%2Fjakethemoss%2FIMG_3642-netversion.jpg&hash=84fc79e93061eafd10747d4baa26dec6a5d7468a)
All three front hubs
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi715.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fww160%2Fjakethemoss%2FIMG_3644-netversion.jpg&hash=08e13de16e7f07b6ac37626f36252cd665c1df52)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi715.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fww160%2Fjakethemoss%2FIMG_3645-netversion.jpg&hash=3fca0f3fcf1cac58dcac7c1db529bac28623c9e0)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi715.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fww160%2Fjakethemoss%2FIMG_3646-netversion.jpg&hash=88961a42b7728b94210259d8afd8f58984fc4523)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi715.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fww160%2Fjakethemoss%2FIMG_3648-netversion.jpg&hash=653030f5d886e82ad7d556be31a3e8e468630ba1)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi715.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fww160%2Fjakethemoss%2FIMG_3649-netversion.jpg&hash=995961407fbedd745ab670f282277e81d286f0d9)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi715.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fww160%2Fjakethemoss%2FIMG_3656-netversion.jpg&hash=38eaecd165069adf501029e02c8ccab20ca939f2)
GTI/R32 Hub
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi715.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fww160%2Fjakethemoss%2FIMG_3650-netversion.jpg&hash=b38a476e62e50212b8e8d0cebc09eb38a5db5c8e)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi715.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fww160%2Fjakethemoss%2FIMG_3651-netversion.jpg&hash=9d7599fa60af2fe0e80d3432adecd0f0831b596d)
S3/Cupra Hub
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi715.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fww160%2Fjakethemoss%2FIMG_3652-netversion.jpg&hash=0137a3c8301bec6aa0ed993fe0096971f1eaff90)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi715.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fww160%2Fjakethemoss%2FIMG_3653-netversion.jpg&hash=ae3701b1251f5c7357f1ffad67870a6cf1e1aead)
TT mk 2 Hub
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi715.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fww160%2Fjakethemoss%2FIMG_3654-netversion.jpg&hash=f52d8b0573c8f6760549214e9ea42ac94d1966c0)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi715.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fww160%2Fjakethemoss%2FIMG_3655-netversion.jpg&hash=5c57a313f4347ce7ef01ac60de9a925709f615b6)
Enjoy :happy2:
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Very nice Jake!
Some questions:
1. How much does the TT hub weigh?
2. Is it only me or the steering mounting point is progressively lower from the GTI to the S3 and than to the TT?
3. The TT arm seem even shorter because you don't measure from the middle of the hole like on the other two arms. Is this so?
Thanks!
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I posted a good link on this subjuct on here somewhere and will try and find it
The TT arms and ball joint are basically in a better position to make the arc of the arm and steering more linear.
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Here
Look at post 8 onwards
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5469326-US-versus-Euro-Height-amp-tire-sizing-Ride-Handling-Balance-Woes
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Very nice Jake!
Some questions:
1. How much does the TT hub weigh?
2. Is it only me or the steering mounting point is progressively lower from the GTI to the S3 and than to the TT?
3. The TT arm seem even shorter because you don't measure from the middle of the hole like on the other two arms. Is this so?
Thanks!
I have just been off to get the parts weighed, the scale i used was not that precise but the difference was the same for all the parts weighed. :grin:
The TT hubs are very close to the S3 in weight
Difference in weight between std. GTI steel lower control arm and S3/TT mk2 is app. 2x1,3kg= 2,6 kg (including front bushing)
Difference in weight between std. GTI steel Hub and S3/TT mk2 alloy Hub is app. 2x1,3kg= 2,6 kg (incl. wheel bearing and ball joint)
1) TT hub incl. bearing is app. 6,2 kg
2) No, S3 and GTI is very similar, sorry it was hard to catch on photo.
3) it's measured from the middle of the hole, camera is more to the left, sorry :ashamed:
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So, then the TT hub is slightly heavier than the S3 one, right?
Anyway... I will wait for you to install the TT hub and see what it implies (also read Alex's thread but waiting for another oppion). And than I will try to get my hands on a pair of TT hubs not because of the lightness but because of the increase in the Center of Roll.
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So, then the TT hub is slightly heavier than the S3 one, right?
Anyway... I will wait for you to install the TT hub and see what it implies (also read Alex's thread but waiting for another oppion). And than I will try to get my hands on a pair of TT hubs not because of the lightness but because of the increase in the Center of Roll.
As said my scale was not precise but i reckon that the S3 and TT hubs are very much the same weight Rex
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I would like to start with saying my skills in photo editing is limited :grin:
But here are my measurements of all three hubs, the lines are not straight, but the measurements are true :laugh: :P
I hope this helps in seeing the difference between the three hubs. I measured fron the lower shoulder that the damper will rest on and to the surfaces that the ball joint and tie rod end will touch on the hubs.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi715.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fww160%2Fjakethemoss%2FIMG_3644-netversion-measured-new1.jpg&hash=7dd095b47428f97ee2f25e50ea3369e760d3f917)
Now you should be able to see the numbers :smiley:
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Jake, I think those are cm not mm.
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Dooh, i'll be back with a version 3 :grin:
There you go Rex :drinking:
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Jake, as you've got all hubs available, can you please measure how much the TT hub will extend the track width compared to the GTI one?
Thanks! :drinking:
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Jake, as you've got all hubs available, can you please measure how much the TT hub will extend the track width compared to the GTI one?
Thanks! :drinking:
I think VRsAlex is the man to ask, he has his fitted now, hopefully i'll get mine fitted friday :smiley:
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Jake, as you've got all hubs available, can you please measure how much the TT hub will extend the track width compared to the GTI one?
Thanks! :drinking:
Enough for me to go out and buy an arch roller!
I would say another 20mm top amd bottom either side over just having the TT lower arms.
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The effort you put in deserves a thank you! :happy2:
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Enough for me to go out and buy an arch roller!
I would say another 20mm top amd bottom either side over just having the TT lower arms.
Thanks Alex.
20mm is a lot! I doubt a arch roller will solve the problem, but best of luck!
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Enough for me to go out and buy an arch roller!
I would say another 20mm top amd bottom either side over just having the TT lower arms.
Thanks Alex.
20mm is a lot! I doubt a arch roller will solve the problem, but best of luck!
I've also ordered some adjustable top mounts to add some more camber and hopefully tuck the wheel in more.
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on the info from Alex i took some shots of GTI steel hub and TT mk 2 Hub, showing app. 15mm difference in the track width, and if you then add the 7-10mm of the TT mk 2 lower control arms you should get in trouble fender wise :surprised:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi715.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fww160%2Fjakethemoss%2FIMG_3755.jpg&hash=61fe5697b5443b112bd2c01414592ff470f2bb33)
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Well i have now had both the TT Mk 2 lower control arms/S3Cupra Hub combo and TT Mk2 lower control arms/TT Mk 2 Hubs combo fitted to my car and here are my thoughts on both.
Combo 1: The TT Mk 2 lower control arms with adjustable camber at the ball joint combined with the S3-Cupra hubs gives a bit more than -2 degrees negative camber at the bottom of the strut along with lower weight which combined with the hubs lower weight is a plus.
Things to consider is the lower ball joint has to sit differently that designed for (Which for me has had no negative effects or troubles whatsoever) Also by using this hub you are reducing the chioces in BBK kits as the hub is 16mm wider where the bolts for the caliper carrier sit in the hub.
Combo 2: The TT Mk2 lower control arms combined with the TT Mk 2 hubs gives about the same weightreduction as combo #1, the negative camber achievable is lower than with combo #1 app. -1,8. With the amount of camber the track width is extended by app. 22mm in each side making the rim/tyre options limited unless you have the option of fitting adjustable upper strut mounts. You will also gain better steering geometry as the lower ball joints sits lower along with the steering point reducing the risk of bump steer (I assume :wink: )
Things to consider is that the lower ball joint sits as intended and you will now have the same amount of BBK options as the steel GTI hubs allows. to get the TT Mk 2 hubs fitted you need to either cut 5mm off you steering rack in each side or ideally get a TT Mk2 steering rack, along with TT Mk2 steering rods and bearings. Also you will ideally need some TT Mk2 drive shaft as they are 15mm longer than the ones your car has.
All in all i would say you really need to consider the cost in choosing the TT Mk 2 hubs as the expenses is great compared to the gain in steering (feel?)
Just my thoughts, me personally have enjoyed the quest and feel that the gain is there, but should i think twice i would not chose combo 2 as the expences is high and it's sort of a road with a point of no return.
I hope you can use my opinions in your quest after mods to do :happy2:
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Thank you very much, Jake !!
:happy2: :happy2: :happy2:
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Im thinking of going combo 1.
I have the S3 Brakes and some BBS pescaras that are 8J.
Do you think they will still fit under the arches ok?
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There are three similar looking wheels all made by BBS:
Pescaras are 7.5Jx18 ET51
BBS CH are 8.0Jx18 ET50
BBS VZ033 are 8.0Jx18 ET44
With both Pescaras and CH you will have sufficient space to fit TT arms.
With VW VZ033 you surely won't.
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ET45 and TT arms on the Cupra is givinge headaches.
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ET45 and TT arms on the Cupra is givinge headaches.
It's not the ET 45 and TT arms that gives the headache Mike, it' worked fine on my car, even with 8,5x19" ET 48, so the Cupra isn't made for the alloy hub fenderwise, only the steel hubs that are 3 mm narrower. It's the wrong car Mike :P
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Well i have now had both the TT Mk 2 lower control arms/S3Cupra Hub combo and TT Mk2 lower control arms/TT Mk 2 Hubs combo fitted to my car and here are my thoughts on both.
Combo 1: The TT Mk 2 lower control arms with adjustable camber at the ball joint combined with the S3-Cupra hubs gives a bit more than -2 degrees negative camber at the bottom of the strut along with lower weight which combined with the hubs lower weight is a plus.
Things to consider is the lower ball joint has to sit differently that designed for (Which for me has had no negative effects or troubles whatsoever) Also by using this hub you are reducing the chioces in BBK kits as the hub is 16mm wider where the bolts for the caliper carrier sit in the hub.
Combo 2: The TT Mk2 lower control arms combined with the TT Mk 2 hubs gives about the same weightreduction as combo #1, the negative camber achievable is lower than with combo #1 app. -1,8. With the amount of camber the track width is extended by app. 22mm in each side making the rim/tyre options limited unless you have the option of fitting adjustable upper strut mounts. You will also gain better steering geometry as the lower ball joints sits lower along with the steering point reducing the risk of bump steer (I assume :wink: )
Things to consider is that the lower ball joint sits as intended and you will now have the same amount of BBK options as the steel GTI hubs allows. to get the TT Mk 2 hubs fitted you need to either cut 5mm off you steering rack in each side or ideally get a TT Mk2 steering rack, along with TT Mk2 steering rods and bearings. Also you will ideally need some TT Mk2 drive shaft as they are 15mm longer than the ones your car has.
All in all i would say you really need to consider the cost in choosing the TT Mk 2 hubs as the expenses is great compared to the gain in steering (feel?)
Just my thoughts, me personally have enjoyed the quest and feel that the gain is there, but should i think twice i would not chose combo 2 as the expences is high and it's sort of a road with a point of no return.
I hope you can use my opinions in your quest after mods to do :happy2:
Sorry for resurrecting the thread guys. I’m fitting TT Alloy Arms and S3 Alloy Hubs to my A3, would the 6 pot 18z’ fit with this setup, or did I just mess up badly with my purchases lol