MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: nezquick on January 26, 2012, 02:54:51 pm
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Out of pure curiosity does anyone on here run a hybrid k03 turbo?
What was the cost / needed to be done / performance increase / experience (good or bad) and whether you'd recommend it to a straight k04 swap.
I don't have an ED30 :sad1: so therefore don't have a k04. I'd be interested to know if anyone has managed to get hold of or created a k03/04 (or 03s) hybrid turbo keeping the standard k03 exhaust side and whether it worked.
I've seen and read a bit more about it but some of the threads were quite old and probably more pub talk than actual facts and figures.
:drinking:
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You can hybridize the k03 but the real issue is getting the software (will have to be bespoke) to run it properly.
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http://www.owendevelopments.co.uk/news/story.asp?newsId=95
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You can hybridize the k03 but the real issue is getting the software (will have to be bespoke) to run it properly.
hmm, I did think you'd need a custom map. But they always say the custom ones are the best.
http://www.owendevelopments.co.uk/news/story.asp?newsId=95
just looked at this, interesting - I bet it costs a fortune though. I wonder if you could take it to a turbo re furbisher and have them make you one up.
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I thought of this when i had mine.
The thing is its going to cost you £450-650 just for the hybrid. You'll also need injectors as well.
When i looked into it, i realised i may as well just buy a K04 which has proven software, proven reliability for the same outlay
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I thought of this when i had mine.
The thing is its going to cost you £450-650 just for the hybrid. You'll also need injectors as well.
When i looked into it, i realised i may as well just buy a K04 which has proven software, proven reliability for the same outlay
Just to add to the above, most you'll see is around 340hp so it's more sensible to go the k04 route.
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lets not confuse the term 'hybrid' with those silly petrol/electric motor prius and the like :grin: the term hybrid used here is related to replacing the standard turbo in a car with an aftermarket/modifed one.
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A hybrid turbo is a turbocharger that uses two different, sometimes more, turbo partsfrom essentially the same family (although not akways) to utalize the pros of both. So a k03/04 hybrid turbo uses the k03 exhaust side for quick spool and the k04 compressor to produce more boost compared to the k03 compressor side.make sense?
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I've been thinking about this route for some time too. You wouldn't want a turbo to put much more than 350bhp anyway as the stock internals wouldn't really cope with any more than that. So in a way you could get a turbo that spools like a K03 and power of near a K04 and running stock internals. It's a route I have been thinking about for some time. Almost bought a second hand spare k03 to do the conversion!
Not sure what happens with software. If you have Revo already then I guess you could upgrade to stage 3 and this could solve that problem.
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I've been thinking about this route for some time too. You wouldn't want a turbo to put much more than 350bhp anyway as the stock internals wouldn't really cope with any more than that. So in a way you could get a turbo that spools like a K03 and power of near a K04 and running stock internals. It's a route I have been thinking about for some time. Almost bought a second hand spare k03 to do the conversion!
Not sure what happens with software. If you have Revo already then I guess you could upgrade to stage 3 and this could solve that problem.
You see, thats my arguement. I don't mind the idea of having to custom map etc etc but its interesting as well. how many people do you see running a hybrid turbo in the gti world? If I was a bit older I would of gone for edition 30. Im tempted to get one in a few years or so. but perhaps I'd of saved enough money for one of the newer models. I guess im envious of the k04... so much potential and its the best first start on the ladder..
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Personally myself im going for the k04 with the s3 injectors and run the forge twintercooler on the ko3 set up.looking into it as we speak.all i need is the ko4 turbo and s3 injectors then my tuner to update my map for ko4 all in looking about £1600 not bad and should see around 360bhp on the rollers :happy2:
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Could be interested, I know my brother had his standard T28 hybrided on his R34 GTT by turbo technics so might be worth dropping them a email,
Don't think it cost him extortionate amounts either?
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So what is the cost of a K04 conversion to a K03 hybrid conversion I wonder?
K04-£600 -/+
Injectors- £300 -/+
Exhaust downpipe?
Different intake?
Mapping?
Roughly £1,600 and about 360bhp
K03- nothing if using existing
K03- £400 for refurbished or low mileage
Getting turbo to become Hybrid £400-500
Injectors- £300 -/+
Mapping?
So anywhere from £1,000 cheapest to £1,400 worst case? 350bhp +/-
Either way your looking at around the 350bhp mark but with the potential of being slightly cheaper for a hybrid K03 and a faster spool without stressing components overly. Could be tempting, especially if there is a low mileage K03 up for sale.
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I might start digging a little deeper into this as its something i very much fancy myself
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I have an Edition 30 Revo Stage 2+ and, this is the route I'm going down! Have sourced a new K04 and once I have that will send it to be Hybridzed! Not too sure what gains a K04 will see though!?
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I wondered about a hybrid K04, does anyone do one off the shelf or is it GT3071R time again :laugh:
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I have a K04 hybrid on the vRS. Check out the build thread for more info. :happy2:
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your build thread link on your sig does not work mate :sad1:
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your build thread link on your sig does not work mate :sad1:
Not for me either :sad1: not that I haven't read it three times already lol
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I have an Edition 30 Revo Stage 2+ and, this is the route I'm going down! Have sourced a new K04 and once I have that will send it to be Hybridzed! Not too sure what gains a K04 will see though!?
if you want to know what sort of power you will get have a chat with steve jr down at statllers in sheffield as he is running hybrid k04 with water meth and last i heard it was shoving around the 430hp mark.
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what sort of power can a k03 cars internals handle safely?
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The ko3 turbo can not be hybrid according to Turbo dynamics and turbo techniks. They said the internals on the ko3 are forged and they couldnt supply suitable parts to make a hybrid.
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Loba Motorsport are showing a hybridised KO4 at upto 380PS.
I'd be interested in finding out how they rate the figures, I'd be more inclined to believe their figures obtained in a sterile test cell than an oily Dyno.
if people are seeing alledgedly 360-370BHP stg2+'on a tuners Dyno then I don't get why a hybridised KO4 will only alledgedly deliver 380ps which is around the same figure when converted.
Have I missed something?
Might give the same power but different delivery?
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Loba Motorsport are showing a hybridised KO4 at upto 380PS.
I'd be interested in finding out how they rate the figures, I'd be more inclined to believe their figures obtained in a sterile test cell than an oily Dyno.
if people are seeing alledgedly 360-370BHP stg2+'on a tuners Dyno then I don't get why a hybridised KO4 will only alledgedly deliver 380ps which is around the same figure when converted.
Have I missed something?
Might give the same power but different delivery?
Bench dyno hybrid Ko4 ! :party:
What are people's thoughts on hub dynos that bolt to the wheel hubs as there is one local to me
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I have an Edition 30 Revo Stage 2+ and, this is the route I'm going down! Have sourced a new K04 and once I have that will send it to be Hybridzed! Not too sure what gains a K04 will see though!?
if you want to know what sort of power you will get have a chat with steve jr down at statllers in sheffield as he is running hybrid k04 with water meth and last i heard it was shoving around the 430hp mark.
Nice one, Gaz! :happy2:
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I was talking to steve jr last week and he reckons it would give his Porsche turbo a good run for its money. The car is mental. :evilgrin:
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your build thread link on your sig does not work mate :sad1:
Odd. Works for me ok.
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Works for me as well.
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I have a K04 hybrid on the vRS. Check out the build thread for more info. :happy2:
Alex have you had it on the dyno yet?
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Loba Motorsport are showing a hybridised KO4 at upto 380PS.
I'd be interested in finding out how they rate the figures, I'd be more inclined to believe their figures obtained in a sterile test cell than an oily Dyno.
if people are seeing alledgedly 360-370BHP stg2+'on a tuners Dyno then I don't get why a hybridised KO4 will only alledgedly deliver 380ps which is around the same figure when converted.
Have I missed something?
Might give the same power but different delivery?
Dyno lottery. Stage 2+ making 370bhp is probably a 20-30bhp over read.
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I have a K04 hybrid on the vRS. Check out the build thread for more info. :happy2:
Alex have you had it on the dyno yet?
Not yet. The nearest dyno dynamics rr is miles away and I've not had 5 mins spare.
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yeah the link is working today, but it wouldnt the other day :stupid:
So what can the k03 internals handle safely? Is it pushing them too hard with the k04 upgrade?
cheers
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yeah the link is working today, but it wouldnt the other day :stupid:
So what can the k03 internals handle safely? Is it pushing them too hard with the k04 upgrade?
cheers
Well I think you are right on the limit with a k04 bolted to a k03s engined car. Plenty of cars are fine though and it all depends on how hard you push it.
They seem to be able to handle around the 350 bhp mark ok, but its that one boost spike that will bend a rod, and you don't always know its bent until the engine gets pulled apart. Still drives ok with a slightly bent rod. If it bends too much then the oil jet snaps off and causes a fair amount of damage.
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so roughly how much would it cost to have stronger conrods and pistons?
cheers for the info its something i want to do, working up to stage 2+ at the min, nearly there with the supporting mods then when its mapped :driver:
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so roughly how much would it cost to have stronger conrods and pistons?
cheers for the info its something i want to do, working up to stage 2+ at the min, nearly there with the supporting mods then when its mapped :driver:
Pistons are fine. Good for well over 400bhp.
Rods are around £300 plus the fitting cost of around 2 days labour.
Also factor in big end bearings, head gasket, ARP head studs, head skim, inlet valve and port strip and clean and some coolant :happy2:
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Was just thinking about the whole K03 hybrid and why can't you change internals and machine various parts of the housing for them to fit? If you can refurb the turbo (which you can) then why can't you change them to something else?
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You can hybridize a k03 as I know a guy in Austria who has done it. Didn't ask where he had it done though.
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The ko3 turbo can not be hybrid according to Turbo dynamics and turbo techniks. They said the internals on the ko3 are forged and they couldnt supply suitable parts to make a hybrid.
so how come these guys are saying this?
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That's what I was thinking.
Maybe since they said "suitable parts" as a replacement maybe it's a fitment issue as the K03 housing is smaller. Not sure but if someone has done a hybrid k03 then that's proof in the pudding really!
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This is a ko3 rod pushed to 400bhp levels :scared:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fy115%2Fjonsmout%2Fbentrod.jpg&hash=2e6ab947f31b464bd92d7a58b579115880b143a0)
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The k03 manifold is also much skinnier than the k04 mani.
The only k03 hybrid that I have seen was made by ABT for the xbow. It used the k04 mani, chra, and the k03 compressor housing. They called it a 300bhp kit but it always made 260!
Cost vs power wise its best to go straight to a k04.
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How did they only manage to get that sort of power. That was with no other mods surely. If so i reckon thats pretty impressive taking into account the gti runs 200hp. With other mods like exhaust, intake, hpfp it would surely be well over 300hp, shouldn't it
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The k03 manifold is also much skinnier than the k04 mani.
The only k03 hybrid that I have seen was made by ABT for the xbow. It used the k04 mani, chra, and the k03 compressor housing. They called it a 300bhp kit but it always made 260!
Cost vs power wise its best to go straight to a k04.
After more research Im starting to agree with your last comment. k04 is probably the best route.. although it is always going to be a bit of an attention seeker at shows if you say "mine has a hybrid k03/04" especially when people don't know what that is..