MK5 Golf GTI
General => Product Reviews => Topic started by: Teutonic_Tamer on February 06, 2012, 03:08:51 pm
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OK, I can't find anyone else having reviewed these - so here goes:
Why
Well, we all need tyres! The car doesn't go round corners very well on bare alloys, and I don't fancy 6pts on my licence for worn out boots!
Serious answer: I'm normally a die-hard Michelin user, and was then currently running Michelin Pilot Sport 3 all round, with Pilot Sport PS2 before that. However, the present PS3s are very disappointing - the big thing which let them down for me was wet grip - much worse than the PS2s.
These were needed to replace the two front worn out PS3s. The rears have nigh-on new tread PS3s. My usual action plan on a front wheel drive car (I don't swap my front to rear to keep even tread wear) is that the fronts wear out - I get a pair of new tyres, fit them to the front. I then 'scrub' them in for a few hundred miles, and also make sure they've been balanced correctly. Then after a couple of hundred miles, I swap these new fronts to the rear, and then have the 'older' (age-wise) tyres to wear out on the front.
I was going to try Continental ContiSportContact 3, but during my research (for prices), I discovered that Continental had recently released the new ContiSportContact 5P. Reviews on the 5P were limited, but having owned and used many different types of Continental tyres in the past, including the ContiSportContact 2, I knew that Continental made dependable, if not the most grippy tyres.
My standard GTI (200PS) has the factory-fit 18" Monza II alloys, but I have been running one size wider tyre than standard for ages now - being 235/40 ZR18 95Y eXtra Load (the 95 load index gives them a rated loading of 690kg per tyre - which is really advantageous if your car is regularly fully laden; when compared to the standard 225/40 ZR18 92Y XL which is good for 630 kg per tyre). Other important info to consider when reviewing tyres: my springs and dampers are OEM standard, I have WALK (all other suspension bushings are standard), and have Whiteline front and rear anti-roll bars (front set to softest, rear set to hardest). Engine performance mods include S3 and Forge intercoolers, and Revo stage 1.
Sourcing
When looking for tyres, I always have a shufty at all the usual online tyre sites, like Black Circles, e-tyres, pneus-online, Tyres-online.net; as well as the main 'high street' tyre outfits which also have online sites (Kwik-Fit, National, ATS, etc). I then make a note of the prices, and then start phoning round all my local tyre dealers from Yellow Pages, including the 'we come to you' mobile-type suppliers.
During this process (January 2011), I was getting very mixed points of view regarding supply: some places like ATS stated that they were not officially released by Continental, and others were saying there was no problem at all getting hold of them, and yet others saying they were available, but only in MO (Mercedes Original) rating. Knowing that MO rated tyres (just like the BMW 'star' rating) CAN be used on other vehicles, I decided to be bold and go for an axle pair of these CSC 5Ps.
I decided to use a local independent tyre place who I've used on a number of previous occasions, and have been happy with (very independent - he has just one premises, and you wipe your feet on the way out - the coffee is free though!)
Fitting
Well, they jack the car up, make a few 'zizzzzzing' noises, remove wheels, make some hissing noises, a couple of bangs, a few grunts and swear words, a couple of pops and some more hisses, then some spinney-sticky-shiney-weights thingies. Then the wheels go back on with more zizzzzing noises, the car gets lowered. My flexible friend gets shoved in a slot, I press a few buttons, and off I go! :evilgrin:
What more can be said about fitting tyres???? :laugh: The only thing I'm anal about is getting them to put the correct pressures in, and correctly torquing up the wheel bolts (well, making sure they take good care of my alloys too).
Other versions
I'm not gonna list all the other types of tyres suitable for the GTI . . . just type the size into one of the online tyre sites to see what is on offer.
Plus Points
Erm, they are new tyres! :wink: My licence is now no longer at risk of 6pts!
Minus Points
They are the WRONG tyres. Let me explain. These tyres I was supplied with are for the North American market - I know this because the web address on the sidewall says something like 'continental-tire.com' - whereas Conti tyres for the UK and European market say something like 'conti-tyres.de' - the clue is in the spelling of 'tyre' vs 'tire'. :wink: I was aware of this before they fitted them - I had a good look at the tyres (I am usually quite anal about getting matched axle pairs, with identical date codes, and I sometimes take my bathroom scales to weigh them - not this time though) - and they had both the North American 'DOT' ratings, as well as the European Union 'E' or 'e' codes - so I was happy that they would still be 'legal' here in the UK.
I also noticed they were supplied from a wholesale tyre distributor - STS, aka Stapletons. :scared: You may be aware that I personally have had more than a few problems with STS 'retail' tyre places, and was also aware of another user on here who was supplied incorrect Goodyear Excellence tyres (with STS blatantly lieing that the Excellence were a direct replacement for the GY Eagle F1 Asymms!). So it seems that STS are still up to their shady practises! :fighting:
Summary
OK, not a 'summary' as such, more of a review, from intial experience, to long term useage.
Like all brand new tyres, one needs to be cautious of new tyres - this is because they are often coated with a slippery releasing agent (helps them get free of the tyre tread moulding machines when they are made) - and so you should not only take a little care for the first 100-200 miles (to scrub them in and get rid of the releasing agent), but you shold also reserve judgement on how they perform (it wouldn't be fair to slag off a tyre which slips and slides when you drive off after having them fitted if they had a lot of releasing agent on them).
So, after scrubbing them in for a few hundred miles, here is what I think of them:
Comfort: traditionally, Continental have always given quite a hard, firm and harsh ride, due to them having a very durable and robust carcass - this makes them particularly good for heavy cars, especially when running at three-figure speeds on German Autobahns. These CSC 5Ps are noticeably more comfortable than say the CSC2.
Road noise: OK, I honestly can't say if they are any better or any worse than either the PS2s or the PS3s. But I can confidently say they ARE quieter than the orginal Dunflop Shyte Maxx directionals!
Stability: a big weak point. These 5Ps seem to have a very weak sidewall - not at all 'Continental-esque'. Comparing back to back tyre pressures of 42psi front (with my previous PS3 and PS2) - these 5Ps are noticeably less stable and more 'squidgy'. Dropping them down to the 'recommended' 35psi front makes them even worse! I have to pump them up to 48psi to dial out this instability (the comfort aspect was not noticeably affected). NOT good IMHO. But if you really like a very comfortable tyre, and have never traditionally liked previous Continentals - these may well be the tyre for you.
Dry traction: they seem to grip fairly well when accelerating. Floor the throttle, and they will spin up in 1st, 2nd and even 3rd. They do not seem to brake away as progressively as say the PS3. They arn't bad - they just arn't up there with the PS3. If you drive sensibly (without giving it the beans in low gears), then these would be a perfectly satisfactory tyre on the GTI.
Wet traction: OK, this is interesting. I found the PS3 very poor in this respect (when comparing the PS3 to the PS2) - these CSC 5Ps seem to be on a par with the PS3s. Careful acceleration is not a problem, but say more than half throttle, and either the ESP illuminates the dash like a fairly light, or if you turn off the ESP, they just spin wildly. You have to come right off the throttle and try again to accelerate. They are rather embarrasing in this respect, and I'd hate to think how shyte they would be on say a 170 TDI (no doubt even a 140 TDI would overcome them). You really do need to be super disciplined when accelerating away from rest in the wet not to get them spinning. Varying tyre pressures from the standard 35 through to my 48psi just makes no difference to this trait.
Dry braking: this seems to be one of their better aspects - though not brilliant - probably on a par with the PS3 or Pilot Exalto, and better than the Shyte Maxx.
Wet braking: iffy is how I'd describe this. Not at all confidence inspiring, but not really brown trouser inducing either. I'd say they were better at wet braking compared to wet traction. This would mean they work better when they are heavily loaded (so that might explain why the lard-barges aka Mercedes fit them). The only positive about this is that you can give your ABS a regular work out.
Dry hard cornering: not toooooooo bad. They are reasonably confidence inspiring - though do not get carried away. They are NOT as good as PS3s, noticeably worse than PS2s, but a country mile better than Dunflop Shyte Maxx.
With my high pressure of 48psi, hard cornering stability was OK, not great. I have a particular slightly uphill corner which has a change of tarmac half way round, and another similar corner with a fooking great manhole cover - and these are both very good tests - for both mid-corner grip and mid-corner stability. At 48psi - everso slighty worse than PS3, but better than Shyte Maxx. At standard 35psi - oh dear, don't go there - a change of underwear was needed. Grip seemed OK, but stability was frightening - they just felt all over the place - not at all confidence inspiring.
Wet hard cornering: poor, poor, POOR. Keep it slow - if you want to keep it on the black stuff. If you like hedges and dry stone walls, these are the tyres for you! :sick:
Resistance to aquaplaning: righty, this is without doubt their best attribute. Much better than the PS3, probably on a par or slightly less than the PS2, and a million times better than the Shyte Maxx.
Cold weather performance: very poor - very SCARY. OK, I know these are 'summer' tyres, so I am NOT trying to compare them with M&S or winter tyres - I am just comparing them with similar summer tyres from say Michelin, other Contis or Dunflop. This really is totally unacceptable - these will just slide on a roundabout or similar bends when the ambient temperature is 5deg C or lower. Other Continental tyres (CSC2, ContiPremiumContact, ContiEcoContact) have always been poor in the cold - but these are just frightning. Now, I don't know if my local council have changed the type of rock salt they use (I am aware they started to add molasses over the last two or three winters) - but these really do not match anywhere near the PS3s I have on the rear.
Tyre life: tyre life does not concern me - dry and WET grip and overall stability is massively more important to me compared to tyre life. I would be happy if a tyre lasted half as long, but was super grippy in the wet! My only comment on these 5Ps is that they seem to be lasting slightly better than the PS3s - though there may be another valid reason why.
Any other features: OK, these do have an interesting feature. I'm sure we all known about 'tread wear indicators' (TWIs) - those little bars at the bottom of the tread grooves roughly eight times around the circumfrence - which indicate when the tread has worn down to its legal limit of 1.6 mm. Well these have an additional 'wear indicator' - these cover just half the tread groove width, have a teeny picture of a rain drop, and are set at 3mm - 3mm being the 'recommended' depth to change them due to wet-weather performance drop off at this tread depth. Based on their wet performance - I'd say this is a very handy feature!
Would I use them again: NO, definately NOT!
Conclusions: these tyres just don't like corners! To me, that is a very bad trait - though I do have a theory. Earlier, I said these are for the North American market - where they don't really 'do' corners. I have frequently found that many American tyres share this attribute, including many different types of Goodyear (Goodyear Grand Prix S, Goodyear Vector, Goodyear NCT) - all shyte at cornering, but all acceptable in a straight line. Sooooo - maybe, just maybe the proper European market CSC 5Ps might be better . . . who knows?
I hope you all find this review helpful and useful. :smiley:
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I have the Conti sport 3 on my ED 30(fitted november 11) & have to say they are much better than the Vredestein Ultrac Sessanta that were on before. Less road noise & more comfort. I was going to get the Conti sport 5 but the offer on the sport 3 was too good to refuse,looks like i made the right choice?. :smiley:
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Very interesting, and quite surprising. These were going to be my next tyres, mainly because of the great reviews I've read elsewhere, that now seem to contradict yours.
I wonder whether Continental would be willing to answer your question on whether the North American versions are significantly different.
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ok so the key point is whether the abysmal (and contradictory to new reviews) performance is down to
a) using the wrong tyres (MO spec) ?
I too have PS3 all round and was going to plump for the SC5 before this review :surprised:
(FWIW I feel the PS3 are pretty abysmal in the first few miles til they warm up too)
thanks for the review TT :happy2:
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I have the Conti sport 3 on my ED 30(fitted november 11) & have to say they are much better than the Vredestein Ultrac Sessanta that were on before. Less road noise & more comfort. I was going to get the Conti sport 5 but the offer on the sport 3 was too good to refuse,looks like i made the right choice?. :smiley:
The ContiSportContact 3 used the identical carcass (ie super rigid) as the earlier ContiSportContact 2 - but just had a softer rubber compound.
These new ContiSportContact 5Ps are massively different to either the ContiSportContact 2 or ContiSportContact 3. Their stability is more typical of Pirelli.
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Very interesting, and quite surprising. These were going to be my next tyres, mainly because of the great reviews I've read elsewhere, that now seem to contradict yours.
Personally, I never trust these generic reviews on the dedicated tyre review sites - think Trip Advisor - same kinda problems.
And you can't really trust the manufacturers either - Michelin told a few porkies when they initially released the PS3.
I wonder whether Continental would be willing to answer your question on whether the North American versions are significantly different.
Difficult. Continental are generally very un-coperative when 'wrong' tyres are used. I remember a thread on Audi-Sport.net quite a few years ago - some chap had a blowout on recently new Contis - he basically tried like hell to get it rectified from his tyre supplier - but his tyres were not 'official' tyres. Conti, being their usual Germanic masters of few words, basically said his tyres were not authorised for use in the UK - end of story! Naturally, this chap who had the blowout was very unhappy. It was only when I discovered the thread on ASN - I looked at his photos of the damaged tyre - and I could clearly see the web address was spelt with the yankie 'tire'. I posted to the effect that they were yankie 'tires', and that Conti were perfectly within their right NOT to support a product which hadn't officially been designed for UK/EU - and the thread went quiet.
I'm in a similar situation - ALL of the 'major' high street tyre retailers (ATS, Kwik-Fit, National Tyre, Formula 1 Autocentre) - all told me that Continental specifically stated the 5P had then not been released in the UK. Like I said in the OP, I was fully aware that these were US tires tyres, and accepted the risk that they wouldn't be 'warranted' by Continental.
And I'm not sure there will be any dramatic, big difference between EU and US specs - but I could be wrong?!?!?!
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ok so the key point is whether the abysmal (and contradictory to new reviews) performance is down to
See my post above this one. Mark Twain probably has the answer! :wink:
a) using the wrong tyres (MO spec) ?
The 'wrong' spec is nothing to do with MO - the wrong spec is wholly due to the fact that these tyres are specifially for the North American market.
I currently have the BMW * rated tyres on my RS4 (PS2s) - and they are absolutely no different to the Audi-specific RO1 specs which were on before. I have the official Michelin technical guide (supposed to be only used by ATS tyre dealers :wink:) - and it lists all the 'manufacturer' specific tyre codes - and it categorically states that MO tyres can be used on ALL makes of cars. The ONLY specific codes you categorically need to avoid are the Porsche specific N codes - these are a disaster when fitted to cars other than Porkers - speaking from painful experience!
I too have PS3 all round and was going to plump for the SC5 before this review :surprised:
Remind me what trait of the PS3 you don't like?
Personally, for all their faults, IMVHO, the PS3 is a much better tyre than the CSC 5P.
(FWIW I feel the PS3 are pretty abysmal in the first few miles til they warm up too)
Hmmm - I don't push my cars until the engine and transmission is fully warmed up - so I can't honestly say I noticed the PS3s being iffy when cold.
thanks for the review TT :happy2:
You're welcome - thanks for the 'thanks'! :happy2:
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I do wonder if the '5P' is different from the '5' i have fitted all round as I cannot fault them, great in dry and confidence inspiring in the wet... I'm running mine 225/40 92y at 39psi allround, they are comfortable and quiet...
So woul dbe interested in seeing if there's a difference...
Also what are your wear patterns at 42-48psi? My guess would be your centres wear before your shoulders...
I used to run my mk5 r32 on 40psi as recommended, but found the centres wore quicker(sign of overinflation) dropped to 39psi and wore evenly...
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The mo spec just means they are suitable for mercs---thier is more to tyre fitting than a few noises :grin:
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I do wonder if the '5P' is different from the '5' i have fitted all round as I cannot fault them, great in dry and confidence inspiring in the wet... I'm running mine 225/40 92y at 39psi allround, they are comfortable and quiet...
ContiSportContact range overview - http://www.conti-online.com/generator/www/uk/en/continental/automobile/themes/car-tyres/standard-car-tyres/contisportcontact/contisportcontact-en.html
ContiSportContact 5 - http://www.conti-online.com/generator/www/uk/en/continental/automobile/themes/car-tyres/standard-car-tyres/contisportcontact/contisportcontact-5/contisportcontact-5.html
ContiSportContact 5P - http://www.conti-online.com/generator/www/uk/en/continental/automobile/themes/car-tyres/standard-car-tyres/contisportcontact/contisportcontact-5-p/contisportcontact-5-p.html
It looks like the plain 5 is more of an 'eco' tyre (albeit high performance) used on lard barges like Audi A8s and Merc S class, whereas the 5P is supposed to be the next step up - ie hyper sports. Basically, the 5P should be more grippy than the 5. I certainly wouldn't put these tyres on my RS4! :sick:
So woul dbe interested in seeing if there's a difference...
Maybe it is the yankie spec? :sad1:
Also what are your wear patterns at 42-48psi? My guess would be your centres wear before your shoulders...
Perfectly even across the tread width. Modern quality radial tyres have a steel belt under the tread - and so should not wear the centre of the tread out when running high pressures. OK, there are some <cough> lesser quality tyres - like Dunflop, PirHELLi, Pukohama - which have very weak carcasses, and will be more prone to differing wear patterns with differing pressures. Both Michelin and Continental can easily cope with high pressures without affecting wear.
I used to run my mk5 r32 on 40psi as recommended, but found the centres wore quicker(sign of overinflation) dropped to 39psi and wore evenly...
Hmmmm . . . an adjustment of ONE psi will not alter wear patterns!
What tyres were you using?
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The mo spec just means they are suitable for mercs
Didn't I say that already? :P
---thier is more to tyre fitting than a few noises :grin:
LOL - yeah. I didn't bother giving intricate details - because tyre fitting isn't something you would do yourself - it isn't like fitting an intercooler or some springs - where if you are competent (or brave!) you can do them yourselves!
Anyway, you work in the tyre business - what is the correct UK / EU spelling of the Conti web address as moulded into the tyre?
And do you deal with Stapletons/STS? Any probs with them?
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The mo spec just means they are suitable for mercs
Didn't I say that already? :P
---thier is more to tyre fitting than a few noises :grin:
LOL - yeah. I didn't bother giving intricate details - because tyre fitting isn't something you would do yourself - it isn't like fitting an intercooler or some springs - where if you are competent (or brave!) you can do them yourselves!
Anyway, you work in the tyre business - what is the correct UK / EU spelling of the Conti web address as moulded into the tyre?
And do you deal with Stapletons/STS? Any probs with them?
ARRthat was been lazy and not reading all your post :ashamed: :signLOL:
on a conti i have here the correct spelling on the tyre is www.conti-online.com
i deal with stapletons a lot now as they bought out north eastern tyres
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I used to run my mk5 r32 on 40psi as recommended, but found the centres wore quicker(sign of overinflation) dropped to 39psi and wore evenly...
Hmmmm . . . an adjustment of ONE psi will not alter wear patterns!
What tyres were you using?
Was using Michelin Exaltos on the R32... (shame they don't still make them).... and yes from my experience 1 psi did make ALL the difference...
Maybe the 5's are no good for the RS4, but for a golf gti they are perfectly adequate and a match to any michelin or pirelli alternative.
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The mo spec just means they are suitable for mercs
Didn't I say that already? :P
---thier is more to tyre fitting than a few noises :grin:
LOL - yeah. I didn't bother giving intricate details - because tyre fitting isn't something you would do yourself - it isn't like fitting an intercooler or some springs - where if you are competent (or brave!) you can do them yourselves!
Anyway, you work in the tyre business - what is the correct UK / EU spelling of the Conti web address as moulded into the tyre?
And do you deal with Stapletons/STS? Any probs with them?
ARRthat was been lazy and not reading all your post :ashamed: :signLOL:
It was rather a long post!
on a conti i have here the correct spelling on the tyre is www.conti-online.com
OK, that's interesting - I'm pretty sure I've also seen . . . dot de - though this was some time ago - maybe you can keep a lookout for any older Contis you replace - maybe Conti have changed their web address to be more 'English' (a lot of German compaines seem to be anglicising their trading names and web addresses - MAN Trucks went through that a couple of years back). And I'll update my OP with the correct web addresses (need to double check when SWMBO gets home - don't want to get it wrong and look a tool).
i deal with stapletons a lot now as they bought out north eastern tyres
Oh dear! Have they given you any yankie Contis? Any other probs with them? What about other wholesellers?
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i have fitted yankie conti's where i used to work
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I used to run my mk5 r32 on 40psi as recommended, but found the centres wore quicker(sign of overinflation) dropped to 39psi and wore evenly...
Hmmmm . . . an adjustment of ONE psi will not alter wear patterns!
What tyres were you using?
Was using Michelin Exaltos on the R32... (shame they don't still make them).... and yes from my experience 1 psi did make ALL the difference...
Ahhhhh. The Exalto were probably a bit borderline for the R32. The Exaltos were really designed for probably lighter hot hatches - something like an Astra SRI, or Polo GTI - the Golf GTI is probably their upper limit, and I'd say that the heavier R32 was pushing their boundaries.
Can you remember if you had the 'Extra Load' (XL) tyres, or had some dodgy person fitted the non XL tyres, as the non XL will be a lot more susceptable to pressure changes (when used on a car where XL boots are specified).
Maybe the 5's are no good for the RS4, but for a golf gti they are perfectly adequate and a match to any michelin or pirelli alternative.
We all have our own opinions and desires . . . some peeps never had a problem with the Dunflop Shyte Maxx, other peeps rave about Pirelli P-Zeros. It would be boring if we all liked the same thing. :wink:
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i have fitted yankie conti's where i used to work
Oh dear . . . care to name them? :grin:
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national company Kwik fit--i left as i used to have to many arguements with the manager in conning customers with things they didn't need
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I used to run my mk5 r32 on 40psi as recommended, but found the centres wore quicker(sign of overinflation) dropped to 39psi and wore evenly...
Hmmmm . . . an adjustment of ONE psi will not alter wear patterns!
What tyres were you using?
Was using Michelin Exaltos on the R32... (shame they don't still make them).... and yes from my experience 1 psi did make ALL the difference...
Ahhhhh. The Exalto were probably a bit borderline for the R32. The Exaltos were really designed for probably lighter hot hatches - something like an Astra SRI, or Polo GTI - the Golf GTI is probably their upper limit, and I'd say that the heavier R32 was pushing their boundaries.
Can you remember if you had the 'Extra Load' (XL) tyres, or had some dodgy person fitted the non XL tyres, as the non XL will be a lot more susceptable to pressure changes (when used on a car where XL boots are specified).
Maybe the 5's are no good for the RS4, but for a golf gti they are perfectly adequate and a match to any michelin or pirelli alternative.
We all have our own opinions and desires . . . some peeps never had a problem with the Dunflop Shyte Maxx, other peeps rave about Pirelli P-Zeros. It would be boring if we all liked the same thing. :wink:
I'm sure they were 92Y, as I was shocked my edition 30 came with 88W or something...
I know, each to their own opinions, but just wanted to give a different opinion as people read this and go oh no crap tyres when actually they're pretty good on the golf imo...
But was shocked of the high tyre pressure you were running...
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If you liked the PS2 you will love the PSS.
I don't know if they have an 'E' marking, but Michelin makes the PSS (in France)
in 225/45 R17 and 225/40 R18 for the US market. Crazy thing though.
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national company Kwik fit--i left as i used to have to many arguements with the manager in conning customers with things they didn't need
Ha ha . . . why am I not surprised at that! :evilgrin:
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I used to run my mk5 r32 on 40psi as recommended, but found the centres wore quicker(sign of overinflation) dropped to 39psi and wore evenly...
Hmmmm . . . an adjustment of ONE psi will not alter wear patterns!
What tyres were you using?
Was using Michelin Exaltos on the R32... (shame they don't still make them).... and yes from my experience 1 psi did make ALL the difference...
Ahhhhh. The Exalto were probably a bit borderline for the R32. The Exaltos were really designed for probably lighter hot hatches - something like an Astra SRI, or Polo GTI - the Golf GTI is probably their upper limit, and I'd say that the heavier R32 was pushing their boundaries.
Can you remember if you had the 'Extra Load' (XL) tyres, or had some dodgy person fitted the non XL tyres, as the non XL will be a lot more susceptable to pressure changes (when used on a car where XL boots are specified).
Maybe the 5's are no good for the RS4, but for a golf gti they are perfectly adequate and a match to any michelin or pirelli alternative.
We all have our own opinions and desires . . . some peeps never had a problem with the Dunflop Shyte Maxx, other peeps rave about Pirelli P-Zeros. It would be boring if we all liked the same thing. :wink:
I'm sure they were 92Y, as I was shocked my edition 30 came with 88W or something...
Your Eddie was obviously second hand - or had winter tyres on it! :laugh:
I know, each to their own opinions, but just wanted to give a different opinion as people read this and go oh no crap tyres when actually they're pretty good on the golf imo...
ETTO and all that - and yes, they do have some 'redeeming' features - but braking away as easily as they do on roundabouts is just a big no no . . . . I expected better from Continental . . . maybe they just ought to stick to bicycle tyres and timing belts! :rolleye:
But was shocked of the high tyre pressure you were running...
I am very heavy on my brakes - and have run many cars at high pressures on the front. I just detest it when the front end squirms under heavy braking - so I just experiment with the pressures until I dial out said squirm. I much prefer to have a rock solid front end (in terms of stability), and have a loose rear end - thats what driving high performance Ford Capris and Fiat Supermiriafioris do to your driving style! :wink:
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If you liked the PS2 you will love the PSS.
I don't know if they have an 'E' marking, but Michelin makes the PSS (in France)
in 225/45 R17 and 225/40 R18 for the US market. Crazy thing though.
The PSS are sold as an official road tyre - so they'll have to be E approved. The PSS will be going on my RS4 when the current PS2s wear out - 275/35 ZR19 100Y eXtra Load anyone? :innocent:
Linky - http://www.michelin.co.uk/tyres/michelin-pilot-super-sport
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I thought that by increasing the tyre pressures to that kind of pressure that the straight line acceleration and braking stability would be hugely compromised.
(I was told this by an ex-F1 driver who now runs a driver training school, not by my friend 'Bob' from down the road)......
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I thought that by increasing the tyre pressures to that kind of pressure that the straight line acceleration and braking stability would be hugely compromised.
How to you come to that conclusion?
Most 'decent' modern radial tyres, with their steel belting under the tread, will keep the actual tread width reasonably constant, whatever the tyre pressure. Lowering or increasing tyre pressure will just have the effect of making the sidewall less or more compliant - more compliant=less stability under high loading (ie heavy braking).
(I was told this by an ex-F1 driver who now runs a driver training school, not by my friend 'Bob' from down the road)......
With respect - what has a rear engined rear wheel drive slick-shodden racing car got to do with a front engine front wheel drive road car?
And is he 'ex' F1 because he was 'shyte' F1? :popcornsoda:
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Most 'decent' modern radial tyres, with their steel belting under the tread, will keep the actual tread width reasonably constant, whatever the tyre pressure. Lowering or increasing tyre pressure will just have the effect of making the sidewall less or more compliant - more compliant=less stability under high loading (ie heavy braking).
No. TT. Higher pressuere will 'shorten' the contact patch in forward direction.
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(I was told this by an ex-F1 driver who now runs a driver training school, not by my friend 'Bob' from down the road)......
With respect - what has a rear engined rear wheel drive slick-shodden racing car got to do with a front engine front wheel drive road car?
And is he 'ex' F1 because he was 'shyte' F1? :popcornsoda:
Come on, seriously?!
Just because he is an ex F1 driver because he was "shyte" doesn't mean he knows nothing about car set-up/vehicle dynamics! Also the fact that he now runs a driver training school for every type of vehicle - be it FWD/RWD, front engine FWD, mid engine RWD etc etc means that he probably has a lot of knowledge about general car set-up. (by the way he had a near-fatal accident which stopped him from continuing in F1, it wasn't because he was shyte. He also races numerous other cars)
Anyway, that's not the point. The point is that someone who has arguably more knowledge than you on car set-up has an opposite view to you, and I'm merely putting his point into the equation so to try and understand and evaluate both views! Forgive me for leaning towards the views of an ex F1 driver :grin:
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Most 'decent' modern radial tyres, with their steel belting under the tread, will keep the actual tread width reasonably constant, whatever the tyre pressure. Lowering or increasing tyre pressure will just have the effect of making the sidewall less or more compliant - more compliant=less stability under high loading (ie heavy braking).
No. TT. Higher pressuere will 'shorten' the contact patch in forward direction.
I said 'reasonably' constant. Yes, I accept that it may marginally forshorten the contact patch in the longitudinal plane (it will not affect the lateral plane at all) - but the trade-off is increased stability under hard braking.
That is my personal preference, and it works for me! :happy2:
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(I was told this by an ex-F1 driver who now runs a driver training school, not by my friend 'Bob' from down the road)......
With respect - what has a rear engined rear wheel drive slick-shodden racing car got to do with a front engine front wheel drive road car?
And is he 'ex' F1 because he was 'shyte' F1? :popcornsoda:
Come on, seriously?!
It was a serious question - allbeit with a touch of 'tongue in cheek' irony too! :happy2:
Just because he is an ex F1 driver because he was "shyte" doesn't mean he knows nothing about car set-up/vehicle dynamics!
You are confusing the issue - F1 isn't really a level playing field. There are many excellent drivers which have shyte cars, and many shyte drivers which have excellent cars. And there are many shyte F1 drivers who have 'lucked' into an F1 championship (either through an excellent car, or through blatant fcukups from other teams who should have taken the title - Kimi Raikonen is a classic example). And finally, there are seriously good drivers who have missed out on titles for a variety of reasons (Stirling Moss because he was an utter 'gent' and say Jenson Button because he endured years of that shyte Honda).
And my point about F1 car dynamics vs 'road car' dynamics is perfectly valid too - Kimi Raikonen (again) - an F1 world champ, but a complete mr nobody in rallying. If you were to relate F1 dynamics to road cars, then you could only seriously apply it to a GT type exotica with a rear engine - a Golf GTI bears very little resemblence in dynamics to an F1 car. If you seriously want to get a 'racing driver' to teach road car dynamics, then you need to be looking at either a touring car driver or a rally car driver. :wink:
Also the fact that he now runs a driver training school for every type of vehicle - be it FWD/RWD, front engine FWD, mid engine RWD etc etc means that he probably has a lot of knowledge about general car set-up. (by the way he had a near-fatal accident which stopped him from continuing in F1, it wasn't because he was shyte. He also races numerous other cars)
Jack of all trades, master of none! :innocent:
There are fundamental flaws in getting 'race car' drivers to teach road car driving - try taking the racing line on the public highway, and you are likely looking at 6pts, a healthy fine, and maybe even a ban if you get caught. Someone like say Don Palmer, or police driving instructors are far better at teaching approriate skills for road car driving.
Anyway, who is he? And sorry on hearing about his accident - I know from personal experience how a serious injury affects your career. :sad1: :drinking:
Anyway, that's not the point. The point is that someone who has arguably more knowledge than you on car set-up has an opposite view to you, and I'm merely putting his point into the equation so to try and understand and evaluate both views!
O-rly . . . how long has he owned a Mk5 Golf GTI - and more importantly, one with my spec of mods?????? Sorry, but I smell something brown and stinky . . . Are you honestly tying to state that he knows more about my specific car than I do? How many sets of yankie spec CSC 5Ps has he used ???? :stupid:
Forgive me for leaning towards the views of an ex F1 driver :grin:
And forgive me for putting forward my own, massively more relevant point of view.
Signed . . . NOT an overpaid ex-prima donna! :evilgrin:
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It was a serious question - allbeit with a touch of 'tongue in cheek' irony too! :happy2:
Come on, TT. Not all your questions are seriously taken.
Even the worst F1 driver is miles ahead from all of us.
Some years ago I had the chance to have a demo on the passenger seat with a world class rally driver.
His car control has been absolutely stunning !!
If you really want to learn more read this book: DRIVING ON THE EDGE
http://www.autocourse.com/products/driving-on-the-edge/
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It was a serious question - allbeit with a touch of 'tongue in cheek' irony too! :happy2:
Come on, TT. Not all your questions are seriously taken.
Even the worst F1 driver is miles ahead from all of us.
Some years ago I had the chance to have a demo on the passenger seat with a world class rally driver.
His car control has been absolutely stunning !!
If you really want to learn more read this book: DRIVING ON THE EDGE
http://www.autocourse.com/products/driving-on-the-edge/
Why would I want to read about how to drive a race car? The book 'Roadcraft' is more relevant.
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How will you know about this book before reading it?
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How will you know about this book before reading it?
TT knows EVERYTHING didn;t you know! :P :signLOL:
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Indeed. I just need to know how to get all that whisdom. :wink:
Don't get me wrong - I have the greatest respect for any technical knowledge and expertise.
But I also have lots of respect for professional drivers. Even more since I do some motorsports
on my own.
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Erm . . . arn't we going a little off-topic? This thread is about reviewing tyres - not willy-waving on who has the best driver training. Banter over, back on topic please. :smiley:
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Evo tyres test - This year the Contisport 3 won. Last year the Contisport 5P won. Why didn't they use the 5P for the second year running?