MK5 Golf GTI

All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: sideshowfred on February 16, 2012, 09:37:14 pm

Title: Why did VW put 17's on the GTI as standard?
Post by: sideshowfred on February 16, 2012, 09:37:14 pm
Sorry if this is in the wrong section, if it is please move it.

Basically i would like to know if anyone knows of a reason why VW put 17's on the GTI as standard? I've got them and they look kak. Were 18's an option and the original owner of my car was being a cheapskate? Car was first registered in March 2006 btw. I'm so bored of looking at them and they make me think it's a wannabe GTI instead of a proper one. Sulk/Rant over  :fighting:

Fred   
Title: Re: Why did VW put 17's on the GTI as standard?
Post by: stealthwolf on February 16, 2012, 09:39:34 pm
18" Monzas were an option but 17" provide better ride (not sure about handling).
Title: Re: Why did VW put 17's on the GTI as standard?
Post by: hugh jass on February 16, 2012, 09:40:57 pm
VW knew the 18s would be a popular option ££££££
Title: Re: Why did VW put 17's on the GTI as standard?
Post by: mkviken on February 16, 2012, 09:44:19 pm
Simple answer is £

The 17s ride and handle better too but the 18s look much better.
Title: Re: Why did VW put 17's on the GTI as standard?
Post by: sideshowfred on February 16, 2012, 09:44:34 pm
18" Monzas were an option but 17" provide better ride (not sure about handling).

Yeah, I know they provide a better ride. I'm in the middle of a discussion with my mate about whether handling would be better or worse. I think 17's will handle worse (more sidewall movement in the tyres?) but he thinks otherwise. And how many GTI's do you ever see with 17's around and about? I think i've only ever seen about 5 haha
Title: Re: Why did VW put 17's on the GTI as standard?
Post by: meady on February 16, 2012, 09:46:06 pm
I have the 17's on my gti and i hate it every time i walk up to the car, i wana buy a set of the 19" monza replicas. Would look so good and fill the arches nicely :)
Title: Re: Why did VW put 17's on the GTI as standard?
Post by: mkviken on February 16, 2012, 09:48:08 pm
Car is definately lighter on its feet on 17s.
Title: Re: Why did VW put 17's on the GTI as standard?
Post by: vRS Carl on February 16, 2012, 09:50:39 pm
As has been mentioned 17's ride and handle better.

Big wheels and thin tyres are purely for aesthetics. Look at an F1 Car. If big wheels and thin tyres really did perform better they would have done it long ago especially with how safety conscious they became after Senna's death.
Title: Re: Why did VW put 17's on the GTI as standard?
Post by: sideshowfred on February 16, 2012, 09:52:06 pm
I suppose your right. but they still look awful haha. my opinion won't change on that front  :sad1:
Title: Re: Why did VW put 17's on the GTI as standard?
Post by: vRS Carl on February 16, 2012, 09:55:40 pm
I don't think you will find anyone who says smaller look better :grin:
Title: Re: Why did VW put 17's on the GTI as standard?
Post by: meady on February 16, 2012, 09:57:48 pm
i think it would help if they were mirror polished and gloss black like some of the monzas, might make them look a bit nicer ?

would still prefer 18/19 inch wheels though :)
Title: Re: Why did VW put 17's on the GTI as standard?
Post by: mvb12 on February 16, 2012, 10:01:07 pm
the 17" don't do the GTI justice, they look aw :sick:

Upgrading these should be your 1st stop.  :happy2:
Title: Re: Why did VW put 17's on the GTI as standard?
Post by: ukdub on February 16, 2012, 10:04:26 pm
Simple answer is £

The 17s ride and handle better too but the 18s look much better.

So true, so the answer is to get some lightweight 18" wheels and have the best of both worlds  :happy2:
Title: Re: Why did VW put 17's on the GTI as standard?
Post by: alackofspeed on February 16, 2012, 10:11:56 pm
I'm glad they did, as 18" wheels would mean spending even more time driving down the road avoiding pot holes and defects!  :driver: I look a like drunk half the time as it is, such is the shocking state of the roads.

I've fitted 200/580/15 (approx 50% profile) tyres on my other car and that gets tracked heavily - there's no issue with sidewall deflection, and the added compliance helps the car track minor surface defects. If you don't need the brake clearance, to a point bigger wheels don't help the dynamic package generally - more rotating unsprung mass, and less tyre compliance.

If you believe opinions of the EVO magazine contributors, then most of the hot hatches they've had in recent time have been a far better steer on the smallest wheel option offered. Megane 250 and Focus ST for example.

There was a thread sort of on this subject on PH:

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=23&t=1111299&mid=0&i=0&nmt=Bring+back+ride+quality!!&mid=0

I must be in the minority as given a choice of two otherwise identical Mk5 GTIs I'd buy the one with 17" wheels.

As to why VW fitted 17" wheels - I can only presume the bean counters and chassis engineers managed to beat up the marketing team, or sold them the concept of rinsing extra money from those wanting bigger alloys.

Title: Re: Why did VW put 17's on the GTI as standard?
Post by: jimk04 on February 16, 2012, 10:25:50 pm
Yeah the EVO boys will 9/10 times choose the.smaller wheeled option for ride.and.handling. I'm sticking to 17s, the only reason id go to 18s is for bigger brakes.

Big does.look cool.though, especially slammed on stretched tyres.... :ashamed: :ashamed:
Title: Re: Why did VW put 17's on the GTI as standard?
Post by: andrewparker on February 16, 2012, 10:34:32 pm
Handling is the wrong word, but the feel you get through 17s is far better. It feels far sharper and agile, but also more forgiving. Of course tyre choice is of paramount importance also.

Visually speaking, it depends what floats your boat. The 17s are far more subtle, and let's face it, the GTI is a subtle car. Saying that I have a set of 17s and a set of 18s and I know which I prefer :evilgrin:
Title: Re: Why did VW put 17's on the GTI as standard?
Post by: alackofspeed on February 16, 2012, 10:56:30 pm
Handling is the wrong word, but the feel you get through 17s is far better. It feels far sharper and agile, but also more forgiving. Of course tyre choice is of paramount importance also.

I've always understood handling means the ability to sub-conciously understand / feel what's happening underneath you and be comfortable to exploit what's on offer. Roadholding is the ultimate adhesion (constant radius peak cornering G for instance) of the car.





Title: Re: Why did VW put 17's on the GTI as standard?
Post by: swgti on February 17, 2012, 11:05:23 am
Funny though that these "experts" only ever mention this when its an option, as far as I'm aware the Focus St and the RS only have one wheel option 18's and 19's respectively and you never see a write up saying "oh this would be better on smaller wheels", same for the megane. And lets be honest if this was the case why didnt Renault put smaller wheels on the R26R, a car purely designed for driving not neceserily looks.

Just a bit of clever marketing by the VW bods me thinks though, but then again I cant ever remember seeing any of the cars given to the press having 18's other than Ed30's so there must be some truth in the better drive or that too would have been a good selling point.
Title: Re: Why did VW put 17's on the GTI as standard?
Post by: GrayMK5GTI on February 17, 2012, 12:12:12 pm
17's are cheaper to refurb  :grin:
Title: Re: Why did VW put 17's on the GTI as standard?
Post by: jamma on February 17, 2012, 12:40:03 pm
17's for go ,  18's for show  :smiley:
Title: Re: Why did VW put 17's on the GTI as standard?
Post by: rex on February 17, 2012, 12:53:59 pm
Not sure the Focus RS or Megane RS can fit 17 inch rims because of the brakes.
Please bear in mind that the GTI can have 16 inch rims.

The main reason for having larger wheels is to accommodate larger brake kits. The Cupra, R20, etc have 18 inch rims as standard and 17 inch as minimum.
If brakes are not an issue the best rims sizes for a Golf GTI are 18 or 17.  Some use the 17 inch rims for BTCC, WTCC (ATS makes 9x17 rims for this) or other touring championships. Others use 18 inch rims in different championships.

My personal choice would be (if brake clearance is not an issue):
17 for light weight, better on B roads due to the larger sidewall
18 for looks
Both are good for motosport depending on the exact use (also tarmac/gravel/snow, etc).
Title: Re: Why did VW put 17's on the GTI as standard?
Post by: Gene Hunt on February 17, 2012, 12:59:08 pm
No dout about it 18'' alloys do look better,but 17'' alloys would not put me off the deal if that was the only thing letting the car down
Title: Re: Why did VW put 17's on the GTI as standard?
Post by: dmac1969 on February 19, 2012, 01:36:59 pm
Mine has 17" wheels on it , I really LOVE the look of 18" Monza Shadows though so I will probably upgrade in due course. (I prefer the Black inserts on the Shadow as opposed to the Grey of the 2 , So I will be looking for a set of 4 matched Monza 2s for refurb)
Title: Re: Why did VW put 17's on the GTI as standard?
Post by: ub7rm on February 19, 2012, 02:08:29 pm
Mine has the 17's and although I do much prefer the look of the 18's I've never felt particularly motivated to change.  From a practical point of view tyres are cheaper and the wheels are hardier / easier and cheaper to repair if they are marked!
Title: Re: Why did VW put 17's on the GTI as standard?
Post by: mk125 on February 19, 2012, 04:23:16 pm
I have 17 on mine and like most others prefer the look of the 18 but it seems a fact that the 17 are a better driving experience for handling and let's be honest a gti is for driving and roads in this country suck so greatful of the extra rubber on the bumps . Might have a go at getting the inserts sprayed black to look like the 18 might be a good compromise
Title: Re: Why did VW put 17's on the GTI as standard?
Post by: dodds-gttdi on February 19, 2012, 04:45:45 pm
As said before, 17's for handling, comfort, protection against pot-holes, less weight and economy (tyres).

18's for best looks. Some 18's can weight less than 17's (pro 1.2's) but come at a cost. Also 18's show up small brakes (and drums!) badly. Granted this isn't a problem the GTI has with 312mm front discs and no drums.
Title: Re: Why did VW put 17's on the GTI as standard?
Post by: jimk04 on February 19, 2012, 05:39:01 pm
I also feel determined to stick with 17s just to be a bit different, as a lot of folk soon stick on a set of 18 or 19 inch....not that there is anything wrong with that !

I fancy some porker cup 1s but the offsets barely accommodate an adaptor. Magnesium ones off a 964 rs for full on lightweight win!....oh yeah they fetch about 2.5k.! :sad1:
Title: Re: Why did VW put 17's on the GTI as standard?
Post by: Frenzy on February 20, 2012, 01:04:02 am
When i was buying my car i test drove 2 GTIs on 17s and 2 on 18s. I can't say that there was that much in it, certainly not as much as i was lead to believe, yes the 17s ride was a bit more 'comfortable' but i prefer a firmer ride, if i want to sit on a sofa i'll stay at home (not that the 18s break your back or anything). I had to fess to the Mrs when we were testing that 17s were a 'better' ride than 18s even though i was really wanting 18s, she said that she felt hardly any difference so wasn't fussed.

In the end we got one with 18s - look so much better than 17s. Plus if you are mega bothered about the ride, get a tyre that will compensate. No point having 17s and then putting a wooden tyre on it.
Title: Re: Why did VW put 17's on the GTI as standard?
Post by: rex on February 20, 2012, 07:56:47 am
Some 18's can weight less than 17's (pro 1.2's) but come at a cost.

I think it is not fair to compare TD Pro 1.2 18 inch with Monza 17 inch. If you want a comparison, make it against TD Pro 1.2 17 inch. And the TD 17 inch ones are lighter if having the same specs.
 :drinking:
Title: Re: Why did VW put 17's on the GTI as standard?
Post by: am1w on February 20, 2012, 08:08:37 am
17" wheels and tyres are cheaper so VW can maximise their profits by offering 18" wheels and tyres as options. The former also provide  slightly better ride and handling though they fail short in the looks department. Anything over 17" needs adaptive springs and dampers especially on our broken tarmac. 17" wheels with adaptive chassis control produces a near magic carpet ride.
I have 18" Monza Shadows and drive with  ACC in 'comfort' all the time.
Title: Re: Why did VW put 17's on the GTI as standard?
Post by: dodds-gttdi on February 22, 2012, 07:58:50 am
Some 18's can weight less than 17's (pro 1.2's) but come at a cost.

I think it is not fair to compare TD Pro 1.2 18 inch with Monza 17 inch. If you want a comparison, make it against TD Pro 1.2 17 inch. And the TD 17 inch ones are lighter if having the same specs.
 :drinking:

Furry nuff! In the same boat then, 17" Monza's weigh less than 18" Monza's.  :happy2:
Title: Re: Why did VW put 17's on the GTI as standard?
Post by: Snoopy on February 22, 2012, 09:34:29 pm
I have thought about referbing a set of 17s to look like the 18s and so have the best of both worlds as im sure not many will be able to tell the difference from a distance.
I found i got far less bump steer and kickback with 17s over the 18s on the mk5 and mk6.
IIRC the topgear laps the 17s were faster than the 18s on the mk5. Also when VW launched the mk5 GTI if they knew it was going on track the car was normally supplied on 17s.
VW also know that from experiance polished wheels cause lots of warrenty returns so if they don't supply every car with them it will cost them less under warrenty  :grin:
Title: Re: Why did VW put 17's on the GTI as standard?
Post by: the bruce on February 23, 2012, 12:46:50 am
Basically i would like to know if anyone knows of a reason why VW put 17's on the GTI as standard?

Cos they ride better, handle as good as 18" and they safe fuel and money (your money as well if you need replacement).


17's are cheaper to refurb  :grin:

18" are a pain to refurb.  :jumping:

 :signLOL:
Title: Re: Why did VW put 17's on the GTI as standard?
Post by: ub7rm on February 23, 2012, 08:10:26 am
Its amazing how quickly we've come from thinking 15 or 16" wheels were 'big' to expecting 18" to be the norm.  A few years ago 13" / 14" wheels were the norm on most cars, not I notice even corsa's and fiesta's are rolling around on 15" rims - even the cooking models.  Show over go most of the time?
Title: Re: Why did VW put 17's on the GTI as standard?
Post by: Upperoilcan on February 23, 2012, 12:35:36 pm
Are you trying to tell me that GTI'S are available with 17" wheels ??????  :evilgrin:
Title: Re: Why did VW put 17's on the GTI as standard?
Post by: GarethB on February 23, 2012, 01:23:17 pm
Are you trying to tell me that GTI'S are available with 17" wheels ??????  :evilgrin:

If you'd like to swap my wonderful 17" Monzas for your Detroits, i'd be more than happy to oblige  :wink: