MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: Billy on February 20, 2012, 10:40:35 pm
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Please bare with me me, this may go on a bit...
So I travelled down today from Glasgow to pick up my approved used 2007 5DR DSG Edition 30 from a VW dealer in England (complete with a one year VW warranty).
I was generally happy with the car except for two quite big scratches that the salesman says they hadn't noticed. It's obviously been keyed a bit and they've tried to polish it out a bit and failed. I'll need to pay a professional to sort it out properly.
The dealer gives me a full tank of petrol and the promise of a set of Edition 30 mats. Not as compensation for the scratches but as my Das Welt Auto option that you receive with a used car.
Anyway, I bought the car and headed back home. About two hours into my journey the oil lamp starts flashing on the dashboard. I pulled over and called the dealer, got my sales person and asked them how this could be happening.
He said that sometimes lights just 'come on' in cars and it would probably go off. I ask him to speak to his service department to confirm the full pre-sales check had been done and that the car had had oil in it. He does this and says yes, they say it was fine.
I continue driving until I reach the next garage (about another 30 miles or so) and pull over and check the oil level. The car had bugger all oil in it. I call the dealers back and the salesman says he can't understand it and he'll have stern words with the service dept. He advised me to buy some oil at the garage and send him the bill. I buy a litre of the correct oil, put it in the car and the light goes out when I start her back up.
I arrive home in Glasgow without further incident.
I've gave this some thought and I've decided I'm really not happy about this level of service but I'm not sure how to proceed, so I'm looking for some advice from the learned folk on here.
The car is on 35,000 miles and the salesman told me the last service had been done at 33,000 miles and that that was the car's second service but now I've looked at the service book and it says the car has had three services.
Service one: 4,137 (16.09.08)
Service two: 17,632 (16.10.10)
Service three: 26,817 (18.07.11)
An oil change has been indicated as being done at each of these services.
I can only assume that either (a) the dealer I bought the car from did not in fact check the oil level before selling me the car; or (b) that the car has a fault of some sort and the oil left the car of it's own accord after I drive off from the dealership today.
Should a dealer supply an approved used car with a full compliment of oil?
What should I do about this situation?
Obviously I'm going to check the oil level again first thing in the morning before I go to work but what then?
I'm thinking I take the car to my local VW dealer and ask them to check the car out with regards to the oil situation and if there is a leak or anything and maybe demand a full oil service as compensation (paid for by the dealer that I bought the car from or VW UK).
P.S. Apart from this issue I'm loving the car!
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Taking it to the nearest dealer and getting them to bill the supplying dealer sounds the best thing to do.
I'd also inform VW customer services as letting the car out of the dealership with little or no oil is inexcusable!! :fighting: :fighting:
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If your not happy with the level of service give them the chance to sort it and say if things are not sorted then you will be handing the car back to them and getting trading standards involved and seeking a full refund due to bad service. Oil light on is bad that nothing left in the sump :scared:
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Taking it to the nearest dealer and getting them to bill the supplying dealer sounds the best thing to do.
I'd also inform VW customer services as letting the car out of the dealership with little or no oil is inexcusable!! :fighting: :fighting:
+1.....take it to your nearest vw dealer and get a service done then send them the bill back or give them the car back & ask for a full refund
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Ask them to provide you with a copy of the MPC report that would have been completed by the dealer when the car entered the dealership network. I did with mine and it brought up a few points for discussion.
Was a service carried out as part of the deal, was it MOT'd, any other parts done as part of the deal?
You mentioned a full tank of fuel and Mats as an option for the Das auto used car service, didnt think this was an option. As you can choose, £100 of vw accessories, VW breakdown assitance, 3 years mot protection, mot tests for life, or a reduction in the 2 year service plan.
Low oil levels would really concern me, as they may have caused unknown damage during your journey if there was below the required minimum. Through the das auto you have a no quibble, 1000 mile, 30 day exchange that can be done, but you are also within your rights to return the car for a refund after giving them the opportunity to rectify the problem.
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Taking it to the nearest dealer and getting them to bill the supplying dealer sounds the best thing to do.
I'd also inform VW customer services as letting the car out of the dealership with little or no oil is inexcusable!! :fighting: :fighting:
+2 perfect answer :happy2: I guess the 'check oil light' will come on before any damaged could occur? :confused:
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Ask them to provide you with a copy of the MPC report that would have been completed by the dealer when the car entered the dealership network. I did with mine and it brought up a few points for discussion.
Was a service carried out as part of the deal, was it MOT'd, any other parts done as part of the deal?
You mentioned a full tank of fuel and Mats as an option for the Das auto used car service, didnt think this was an option. As you can choose, £100 of vw accessories, VW breakdown assitance, 3 years mot protection, mot tests for life, or a reduction in the 2 year service plan.
Low oil levels would really concern me, as they may have caused unknown damage during your journey if there was below the required minimum. Through the das auto you have a no quibble, 1000 mile, 30 day exchange that can be done, but you are also within your rights to return the car for a refund after giving them the opportunity to rectify the problem.
Even better point :happy2: I'm guessing your a clever bloke, do what feels best about you purchase :smiley:
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Mate, i feel for you, I had exactly the same problem.
Picked up an 08 gti, drove 160ml, light came on, called out roadside assistance, no oil in it.
I loved the car, but could not live with the thought that it could have been driven for quite a while on low oil and the possible unknown damage that could have been caused. I made every excuse to keep it but i had lost confidence so took it back.
I demanded a full refund, the salesman gave me a load of excuses so i told him where he needed to go quickly, spoke with the sales manager who was very embarassed and he offered me a swap or full refund.
I now have an 07 Eddy which I love, perhaps things do happen for a reason.
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You mentioned a full tank of fuel and Mats as an option for the Das auto used car service, didnt think this was an option. As you can choose, £100 of vw accessories, VW breakdown assitance, 3 years mot protection, mot tests for life, or a reduction in the 2 year service plan.
Because I live so far away from this dealer he said the MOT protections and MOT tests weren't practical as they apply to the supplying dealer. I already have roadside assistance through my bank account. MOney off the service plan seemed to not apply as he said another service would;t be due until 53k miles (although I've discovered now that isn't quite correct). So I went for the option of the £100 accessories made up of the mats (which he said I have to order from my local VW dealer and get them to bill the supplying dealer) and some fuel.
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Taking it to the nearest dealer and getting them to bill the supplying dealer sounds the best thing to do.
I'd also inform VW customer services as letting the car out of the dealership with little or no oil is inexcusable!! :fighting: :fighting:
I guess the 'check oil light' will come on before any damaged could occur? :confused:
That's what I'm thinking too but I do want the car to have a full check over from my local VW dealer and a full oil change service too (paid for by the supplying dealer) as I feel that should have been supplied to me full of oil.
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Mate, i feel for you, I had exactly the same problem.
Picked up an 08 gti, drove 160ml, light came on, called out roadside assistance, no oil in it.
I loved the car, but could not live with the thought that it could have been driven for quite a while on low oil and the possible unknown damage that could have been caused. I made every excuse to keep it but i had lost confidence so took it back.
I demanded a full refund, the salesman gave me a load of excuses so i told him where he needed to go quickly, spoke with the sales manager who was very embarassed and he offered me a swap or full refund.
I now have an 07 Eddy which I love, perhaps things do happen for a reason.
Nightmare mate. TBH I haven't lost confidence in the car but I do want it checked over so that it's hopefully given a clean bill of health by my local VW dealer (at no charge to me obviously) and hopefully to be given a full oil service too (again at no charge to me).
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Think with the scratches,no oil and service history i would either return the car or tell them to find another one for you
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Billy,
im sorry you are having to go through all this - buying from an approved dealer should be relatively stress free!
Anyway, just a couple of points. On the service history you list for your car, there's a 25month gap and 13,500 miles between service 1 and 2 - that seems a big gap to me - i dont know what the intervals are on long life but a car using the same oil for 2 years does fill me with confidence...
My second point is driving with low levels of oil - as someone has already mentioned, i would be worried about the unseen damage that may already have occurred to the internals. Surely if the dealership failed to check the oil level, it begs the question of what else they have failed to check? in my opinion, if you are going to be paying the premium for buying from an approved dealer, i expect the best level of service and the car to be tip top.
They can offer to do as many oil services they want but the damage could already have been done and sods law, the engine suffers a catastrophic failure in 12months and 1 week - landing you with a hefty bill.
If it was me, i couldnt live with that niggling doubt in my mind, expecting the worse every time i start the car up. I would take the chance whilst you still have it and take it back for a full refund. i know that perhaps your heart is over ruling your head (i understand the lure of the Eddy!) but there plenty of clean, decent examples of Edition 30's out there! :happy2:
Sorry for the scare mongering, i just dont want you to suffer even more stress if things go wrong in the future.
Just my 2 pence!
Rich
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Aren't LongLife intervals 20,000 miles?
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thats correct 20,000.
You'll know if you have done damaged already as you'll hear the bottom end rattle to f*ck when revving.
Its not good seeing the oil light come on though!
Cowboys!!
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thats correct 20,000.
You'll know if you have done damaged already as you'll hear the bottom end rattle to f*ck when revving.
Its not good seeing the oil light come on though!
Cowboys!!
Ive always followed the rule that the GTI shouldn't be on LL servicing (as a rule of thumb) - if Billys car done 13,500 in 2 years, say 7k a year, shouldnt it have been on T&D instead?
Rich
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And this is why more and more people are shunning VW and buying from the likes of BMW / Audi (not any better at all) and especially Honda.
Customer service from VW is very poor indeed.
For a "premium brand" the service we put up with in the VW UK network is nothing less than shocking. :fighting2:
I hope you get satisfactory closure, but knowing VW it may well be protracted and time consuming.
Rant over
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I'm a vengeful sort of fella - I'd have run it dry, let the engine seize and then make them refund me. ("I don't know much about cars, I assumed the oil level would be fine because it's an Approved Used car"). Then I'd make them tow it back to whichever sh*t dealership you bought it from and get them to pay me for my inconvenience and travel costs, taking the legal route if necessary.
This is totally unacceptable. I would take it up with VW UK. They clearly haven't done the checks they said they did, and lying about the service history is inexcusable.
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I would drive it back to them and throw them the keys then go buy a car privately for way cheaper ..atleast you know what to expect.
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Buying a car should be a pleasent and enjoyable experience , not hasstle or things going wrong on the way home.
If i was you i would see if you can contact the lasst owner and ask them about how the car was run , also asking them if it had a thirst for oil?
TBH as people have said the engine could have been damaged or you may have been lucky that it was just a one off.
i think i would play this either 1 of 2 ways
1. phone the dealer reject the car , tell them that its on the drive way waiting them to collect it and give you a full refund , tell them you refuse to drive it because its using oil and you dont want to breakdown on the way to the dealers.
2. phone the dealers and tell them you want an extended warranrty and the incident of lack of oil recorded and any failures associated with lack of oil covered and to be repaired free of charge at a dealer of your choice , oh and a free next service of course.
tbh if it was me i would reject the car and start the process all over again , trust me you will be looking for all sorts of noises now knowing it had no oil in it and you just wont enjoy it.
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Got to agree, if it was me it would get rejected, buy yourself a private car and get yourself a warranty and still likely save over £1500
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The dealer has offered to pay for an oil & filter change at my local VW dealer and an inspection of the car.
I'm going to get that done asap and see what the outcome from that is. I'll still be within my 1000 miles / 30 day returns period so will have that as a fallback.
They have apologised profusely for the oil light coming on and say it must have just been "an oversight" on the part of their service department.
I'll let you all know how it pans out...
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Billy, can i ask, how much oil did you have to put in it to return it to the Max mark??
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The dealer has offered to pay for an oil & filter change at my local VW dealer and an inspection of the car.
I'd be wary of how detailed the inspection is - are they willing to strip down the engine block to inspect the components with a fine toothed comb? im not so confident that an inspection (by the dealers) would be detailed thorough enough to identify any unseen damage that may have been caused...
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Some of the things i read on here about stealers takes the mick, but this has to be one of the best yet. Well, this just goes to show that even buying form stealers is not a safe option. They bum you when buying, servicing, warranty. They just take the p1ss mate. To have no oil in is unexcuseable. The car should have been fully checked over before handing over the keys, it makes you wonder if they have done any checks at all. Tbh where ever you buy a car from there are certain checks you can do your self and this should have been one of them but then i guess when you buy from a stealer you would expect all to be ok. I guess you paid a pretty penny for the car mate so you'd at least expect there to be some freakin oil in it. If i was you i would go to the highest level with this and see what you can eek out of the b'stards. Anything could have happened from engine seizure to turbo failure, head gasket failure the list goes on. As others have said, i would take it to your nearest garage let them sort it, do ask for all the nessesary checks to be done and get them to send them the bill.
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I personally would not accept the free service offer as the inspection will be a visual and there is no cost involved for this. My local dealers invited me in when i collected mine from another dealers to make sure everything was ok, then gave me a report. The other issue that would concern me is the gap of two years between service.
Ive been very lucky in finding my mint eddie that has been serviced on T&D with LL oil each time regardless of the miles. My car even has history of the drivers seat & armrest being changed due to the stiching becoming loose.
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I would refuse the offer and return the car
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I would refuse the offer and return the car
If your going down that road i'd get them to collect it. Why waste anymore of your own precious time?
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Presumably the car did not show the warning light when you test drove it, and it's unlikely to have done many miles when under the ownership of the garage?
I'd also presume that the oil light coming on doesn't mean it has absolutely no oil in the car.
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I would refuse the offer and return the car
If your going down that road i'd get them to collect it. Why waste anymore of your own precious time?
just think face to face conversation is always better than over the phone but i know what you mean Gaz :happy2:
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Sorry to hear you've had some shocking customer service already mate! :fighting:
But before you get too despondent about engine damage caused then bear in mind that the car has a dual level oil warning system.. The orange oil level warning is exactly that, a warning that the oil level has reached it's recommended minimum and will be returned to normal from that level with a 1 litre top up bottle, whilst this is to be best avoided if possible it is quite different to the red low oil pressure light coming on..
It's not uncommon for the dealers to top up to the bare minimum of oil during a service and therefore the oil level can quickly drop down to the min mark, it's terrible customer service regardless but if it was the orange 'low level' warning then I wouldn't be too concerned at all :happy2:
Most modern bmws and mercs no longer even have a dipstick and rely on level monitoring via the obc, when the level drops to min it politely asks you to top up the required 1 litre, for that reason is why the 1 litre top up bottles exist iirc..
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Billy, can i ask, how much oil did you have to put in it to return it to the Max mark??
I only put one litre in it. When I checked the car this morning it was showing as half full on the dipstick.
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Sorry to hear you've had some shocking customer service already mate! :fighting:
But before you get too despondent about engine damage caused then bear in mind that the car has a dual level oil warning system.. The orange oil level warning is exactly that, a warning that the oil level has reached it's recommended minimum and will be returned to normal from that level with a 1 litre top up bottle, whilst this is to be best avoided if possible it is quite different to the red low oil pressure light coming on..
It's not uncommon for the dealers to top up to the bare minimum of oil during a service and therefore the oil level can quickly drop down to the min mark, it's terrible customer service regardless but if it was the orange 'low level' warning then I wouldn't be too concerned at all :happy2:
Most modern bmws and mercs no longer even have a dipstick and rely on level monitoring via the obc, when the level drops to min it politely asks you to top up the required 1 litre, for that reason is why the 1 litre top up bottles exist iirc..
That's kind of how I'm looking at it mate, however most folk on here seem to be recommending handing the car back no matter what.
I agree that it is shocking customer service and should never happen, I'm sure that this and worse happens all the time.
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Sorry to hear this, but so many VW stealers are terrible when it comes to Customer Services, unless you are buying brand new.
I'd return the car under the 30 day/1000 mile guarantee and go and buy a car with your hard earned from somewhere else. You can always take out a 3rd party warranty to cover the car as the used approved warranties from VW are rubbish too.
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Billy, can i ask, how much oil did you have to put in it to return it to the Max mark??
I only put one litre in it. When I checked the car this morning it was showing as half full on the dipstick.
So that means that the car had just about over 3 litres of oil still in it. I doubt it would of caused any damage to the internals luckerly :happy2:
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Billy, can i ask, how much oil did you have to put in it to return it to the Max mark??
I only put one litre in it. When I checked the car this morning it was showing as half full on the dipstick.
So that means that the car had just about over 3 litres of oil still in it. I doubt it would of caused any damage to the internals luckerly :happy2:
I hope so mate as I don't want the hassle of returning the car :(
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You ever taken a sump off a car Steve? And have you ever looked at the sensor in the sump to see how low oil has to be to trigger the low oil light
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I did have a low oil warning come on in my old Z4 Coupe once. I put some oil in it and it was fine.
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Matt, the oil pickup is much lower then 3 litres of oil level is in the sump, you don't need to know that even if I've not physically removed the sump. The sump pickup generally is just off the base, normally baffled so oil is not sloshed about the pan of the sump, 3 litres in the sump will still push enough about, as long as the O.P wasn't going flat out which I'm sure he wouldn't of been.
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Sounds like a lot of over-reaction in this thread. Fair enough the dealer has performed terribly, but it's almost what you expect of them.
Surely the oil light acts in the same way as the petrol light i.e. when it comes on it is an indication that you need to top up. I'm sure VW haven't implemented a system whereby the first warning comes too late and you've already done damage.
Take the dealer for everything you can, but if the car is good otherwise then hang on to it.
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Sounds like a lot of over-reaction in this thread. Fair enough the dealer has performed terribly, but it's almost what you expect of them.
Surely the oil light acts in the same way as the petrol light i.e. when it comes on it is an indication that you need to top up. I'm sure VW haven't implemented a system whereby the first warning comes too late and you've already done damage.
Take the dealer for everything you can, but if the car is good otherwise then hang on to it.
Finally some sense! :congrats:
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Billy, I'd play this dealer as hard as you can; they are on the defensive after ****ing up.
http://www.volkswagen.co.uk/used/what-approval-means/tab8
And I quote Our skilled, Volkswagen trained technicians carry out a comprehensive workshop inspection of every used car before it can become an Approved Used Car
That's what I'd be using to batter the dealer principal with, and use it to make his service manager beg for his/her job. Complaining to VWUK that the dealer didn't meet the required standards of used car checking would be very high on the list too.
Once you have the dealer on the back foot and apologising/offering sweeteners, I'd demand from them, in writing that they will warrant any bottom end engine faults, particularly any that are possibly attributable to oil starvation.
God only knows how many halfwit car owners drive around with oil lights on. Modern cars don't implode simply because the oil level is low. If they did, the hard shoulder of the motorway network would be littered with drooling idiots gazing at conrods and cranks strewn across the carriageway. The orange 'warning' light is just that; a warning that you need to top up your oil. A fuel warning light gives notice that you need more fuel in the same way. It doesn't come on when the engine is about to sup the last drop in the tank.
So nail the dealer for service worse than most backstreet garages; bear in mind that you pay a premium for a dealer-network "approved car". And you just paid that premium for sod all. I'd want some sort of sweetener for that as well as a guarantee against engine issues, and the Service Manager's head on a plate.
But I wouldn't hand the car back, unless you get to day 29 of your 30 day period and havent had satisfaction from the dealer. Then I'd ring the principal & tell him to collect it and ram the car up his hoop. Sideways :evilgrin:
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Good news.
I've just spoken to the VW dealer and they have given the car the thumbs up.
It had a major service done to it today and an inspection the the oil sensor, check for leaks etc and all good.
Fingers crossed they know what they're talking about and I'm all good to go and I can now fully enjoy the car :driver:
One bad point is that they told me the car had an unrepairable puncture in one tyre so I had to spring for a tyre for them. £142 for a Hankook. Bloody main dealer dealer prices. I'll let the other tyres wear down a bit more and replace them all later on in the year with one brand as that will now be two Goodyears on the front and a Hankook and a Michellin on the back.
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Good news.
I've just spoken to the VW dealer and they have given the car the thumbs up.
It had a major service done to it today and an inspection the the oil sensor, check for leaks etc and all good.
Fingers crossed they know what they're talking about and I'm all good to go and I can now fully enjoy the car :driver:
One bad point is that they told me the car had an unrepairable puncture in one tyre so I had to spring for a tyre for them. £142 for a Hankook. Bloody main dealer dealer prices. I'll let the other tyres wear down a bit more and replace them all later on in the year with one brand as that will now be two Goodyears on the front and a Hankook and a Michellin on the back.
Isn't it illegal to run two different tread patterns on the same axle or am I just making things up? or just maybe not recommended?
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It's not illegal to run different tread patterns long as the spec of the are the same
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I'm glad you got your issue resloved and you decided to keep the car!
I work for a main dealer (not VW) and if I was to detail some of the events that I have seen you would be seriously shocked... :scared:
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I'd be asking for the tyre FOC from the stealer considering their terrible service.
I'm shocked that they have also charged you a massively over inflated price for it.
Why didn't you go and by a better tyre cheaper from else where?
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dam.. should have used camskill instead of the stealers
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I usually use Camskill but the car was in the dealers getting the service etc done and I just wanted it all fixed and done there and then so I could just get driving the car without worrying about it!
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But the question still arises. Why did you buy a car that's been badly keyed?? Alarm bells ringing and walk away. And all this ballache would. never have happened. Plenty of decent cars out there just separating the wheat from the chaff that takes time :happy2:
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But the question still arises. Why did you buy a car that's been badly keyed?? Alarm bells ringing and walk away. And all this ballache would. never have happened. Plenty of decent cars out there just separating the wheat from the chaff that takes time :happy2:
I took the dealers word for it that the bodywork was in great condition - and it mostly is apart from these two scratches which will be removed without too much fuss next week hopefully. And since I live in Glasgow and the car was in Peterborough I had to go on that and some pictures the dealer had sent me.
I had to take a day off work to fly down to get the car, arrange my brother to meet me and pick me up and take me to the garage, I had the insurance already in place etc. That's why I bought the car!
Don't get me wrong, it's a great car, I've just had a few initial bumps in the road that need(ed) sorting out.
Just looking forward to enjoying the car now and getting a few wee initial mods done, starting with a trip to Dundee on Sunday to have an RNS 510 that I've bought fitted and coded up by Golfman :smiley:
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Glad to hear its all sorted and you can start enjoying it....beware of Golfman Scott hes a bad influence!!!!! :grin:
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I think it's a decent resolution. All the people telling you to return the car probably don't know how hard it is to find a good one, and I'm guessing good Edition 30s are becoming more scarce with age. It had a few (minor) problems but the advantage you get from buying from a dealer is that those problems can be rectified pretty easily. With the returns policy you effectively have them over a barrel. If you'd bought privately it may have been a different story altogether.
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Yep, plus I have the year's warranty :happy2: