MK5 Golf GTI
General => Testing and Forum Suggestion Box => Topic started by: DaveB@Vagbremtechnic on February 22, 2012, 08:46:45 am
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Any suggestions?
Discuss........
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I agree and have been asking new threads to be updated to the format outlined in the sticky in the reviews section.
Going forward if they don't follow this standard they will be removed.
I also think a statement on how the person came to get the product would be helpful too :happy2:
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Great minds think alike - I had also started a new thread on this subject (now locked by myself):
I would also add weight to the fact that the product review threads need an overhaul to a fixed format, that format should also include a £RRP and perhaps more importantly HOW MUCH THE REVIEWER ACTUALLY PARTED WITH to get the products onto the car.
This would help anybody reading the review assess the reviewers objectivity. I think it would be fair to say anybody objecting to this open disclosure might well have an agenda.
....Who pays the full retail price for products nowadays anyway? Economic times are hard and have been for a long while and so suppliers need to shift goods.
An ability to write an objective review has nothing to do with the price a reviewer pays and it would automatically puts a negative spin on any product, no matter how excellent it is, if the reader is fed information that the reviewer didn't pay the full price. If somone thinks that the price individually paid does colour the review then they shouldn't judge others by themselves.
The other aspect of such declarations is that if a discount is declared it immediately starts everyone else demanding the same discount - We all prefer to pay as little as possible for absolutely everything we buy, not just car stuff. It then has a knock-on effect which means that the supplier becomes reluctant to give discount at all because of vociferous demands from forum customers.
To suggest that not declaring what are private purchasing transactions means that someone has an agenda in writing their review is both ridiculous and insulting.
Prices paid for goods and services vary substantially and all that is needed in a review is the normal retail price as a guide. [All in my opinion]
Discuss.......
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FDetailing%2FStickers%2FPopcorn_smiley.jpg&hash=7ba2e43dc4d5610b69c9577f25972a8df225fcbf)
Btw, I agree wholeheartedly that all reviews should follow John_O's original guidelines as I do myself, and which are outlined in TopCat's guidlines sticky. :happy2:
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Here is an example to back up what I'm saying:
My current Milltek exhaust system was free of charge
It is custom made and a prototype. In other words, on my car for testing as a product with me taking the risks of such testing and with my absolute trust in Milltek for solving any issues. Its the best exhaust I've ever had on my car (he said enthusiastically) and continues into its third year.
So, does that mean I have ulterior motives or an agenda when I write a review about the product?
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I also think a statement on how the person came to get the product would be helpful too :happy2:
....Can you expand on what you mean by that, please Steve.
Do you mean by such routes as recommendation, word-of-mouth, adverts? If so, how does that support a review?
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I can't post in your thread for some reason robin......
You cant deny that receiving exhaust/intake/brakes etc for free will put a twist on the review.
If VWR decided to give me a set of brakes for free, I would of course tell everyone they are the bestest brakes ever. If BDM gave me an intake for free I would say that it's the bestest intake.....
Robin if you'd have been offered a 'A-NOTHER' custom exhaust for free which you were happy with then you'd be flying the A-NOTHER flag, not milltek.
So it's not the customer that has the ulterior motive.
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Possibly not Robin, possibly so...
All I'm saying is as this site is non commercial it's only fair that any reviews be subjective.
if somebody gave me £1000's worth of exhaust,brakes,tyres I would find it pretty difficult to be too critical especially if it was a company that I had an ongoing relationship with.
Us "traders" need to have all our adverts vetted and approved prior to publishing, this avoids the subliminal advertising that could undermine a "sponsored" product review.
None of us are stupid, it serves the manufacturers purpose to get their products out there and there's a commercial cost to that (ie you give stuff away), I've done a skinny deal for a chap on here to get the NQSBBK onto his polo 6r, I'd be happy for the guy to publish the price.
My long winded point being I would agree in general about what you are saying regarding commercial matters and confidential discounts, could we agree that if a product is GIFTED to somebody then for the sake of openness it would be worth a mention. In the case of say Brakes if somebody helped develop a kit and was thereafter gifted it how about some pictures of the design process, the fitting, the issues the manufacturer encompassed in development. It would also be good to mention that it was free before beginning the review.
For the avoidance of doubt I'm not referring to the VWR kit, more say for example the NQSBBK kit which was tried on Joes GTI's car at the Nurburgring (at Joes cost), that thread thanks to all the contributors ( not me) is a bloody good read for anybody thinking of upgrading their brakes and is what makes this forum different from others
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I can't post in your thread for some reason robin......
You cant deny that receiving exhaust/intake/brakes etc for free will put a twist on the review.
If VWR decided to give me a set of brakes for free, I would of course tell everyone they are the bestest brakes ever. If BDM gave me an intake for free I would say that it's the bestest intake.....
Robin if you'd have been offered a 'A-NOTHER' custom exhaust for free which you were happy with then you'd be flying the A-NOTHER flag, not milltek.
So it's not the customer that has the ulterior motive.
.....Hi Rich,
You probably can't post in the other thread because I locked it so that all discussion would be here in one thread.
I most certainly can deny that receiving discounted, even free, goods makes my reviews biassed. I very consciously write and enjoy writing my reviews as objectively as I can. Read them, if you haven't already, and you'll see criticisms as well, even if later in the thread after more time in usage.
I was enthusiastic about and singing Miltek's praises long before my current exhaust 'freebie'. To counter that there are others who take every opportunity to be negative about their products.
I don't accept a product just because it's free or at a substantial discount like some folks, usually in supermarkets, do. And especially not for my car - Only the best I can afford for my beloved 'RED'.
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I can't post in your thread for some reason robin......
You cant deny that receiving exhaust/intake/brakes etc for free will put a twist on the review.
If VWR decided to give me a set of brakes for free, I would of course tell everyone they are the bestest brakes ever. If BDM gave me an intake for free I would say that it's the bestest intake.....
Robin if you'd have been offered a 'A-NOTHER' custom exhaust for free which you were happy with then you'd be flying the A-NOTHER flag, not milltek.
So it's not the customer that has the ulterior motive.
.....Hi Rich,
You probably can't post in the other thread because I locked it so that all discussion would be here in one thread.
I most certainly can deny that receiving discounted, even free, goods makes my reviews biassed. I very consciously write and enjoy writing my reviews as objectively as I can. Read them, if you haven't already, and you'll see criticisms as well, even if later in the thread after more time in usage.
I was enthusiastic about and singing Miltek's praises long before my current exhaust 'freebie'. To counter that there are others who take every opportunity to be negative about their products.
I don't accept a product just because it's free or at a substantial discount like some folks, usually in supermarkets, do. And especially not for my car - Only the best I can afford for my beloved 'RED'.
I think Review thread updates would be most useful. A great product on fit may not be so great later down the line.
RR - I am really struggling to remember you posting a bad review, hoever, I am also struggling to remember you posting anything bad about your fitted products.
For instance, you must have had bad experiences with Miltek;
Directed right across the reviewing authors - Receiving free products must mean you have to sign a confidentially agreement? I am of the opinion that you should disclose your involvement/sponsorship when reviewing such products, especially development items.
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Possibly not Robin, possibly so...
All I'm saying is as this site is non commercial it's only fair that any reviews be subjective.
if somebody gave me £1000's worth of exhaust,brakes,tyres I would find it pretty difficult to be too critical especially if it was a company that I had an ongoing relationship with.
Us "traders" need to have all our adverts vetted and approved prior to publishing, this avoids the subliminal advertising that could undermine a "sponsored" product review.
None of us are stupid, it serves the manufacturers purpose to get their products out there and there's a commercial cost to that (ie you give stuff away), I've done a skinny deal for a chap on here to get the NQSBBK onto his polo 6r, I'd be happy for the guy to publish the price.
My long winded point being I would agree in general about what you are saying regarding commercial matters and confidential discounts, could we agree that if a product is GIFTED to somebody then for the sake of openness it would be worth a mention. In the case of say Brakes if somebody helped develop a kit and was thereafter gifted it how about some pictures of the design process, the fitting, the issues the manufacturer encompassed in development. It would also be good to mention that it was free before beginning the review.
....Did you mean to write "objective" instead of "subjective'?
How difficult someone might find it to write a review truly objectively when given discount is perhaps a test of character. Whenever I've been given a discount (and I never ever ask for it) and if I plan to write a review about it I always warn the supplier that I will voice my criticisms if I find any. And if I don't find any, the resulting post doesn't have any.
It doesn't say much for the reader's state of mind if all they can see in someone's positive enthusiasm is agenda or ulterior motive just because the reviewer was given discount or gift.
Words such as "Bought at Discount" AS WELL AS the normal retail price might be a way forward, but without having to declare exactly what discount - But, for the reasons I stated earlier, I'm not convinced. Unfortunately too many people see and focus on the price before they assess any goods/services.
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A fixed format wont work for lots of reasons. You can try but it wont work. All the reviewer has to do is deny any discount or cheaper price. Your basically trying to change how tinternet works. Even a completely genuine review, is more often than not, loaded, because they are affirming there choices.
All you can do is use your own brain when reading the review, base your decisions on the person who wrote it as well as the product. I, for example know John_O very well as person, and i know he will be completely impartial, because thats just how he is. :happy2:
On the other side of the coin, For example if Mat or Robin write something about VWR, then unless you have just climbed out of the ground and not read any of there posts about VWR, you will know about their enthusiasm :wink.
People often make choices for ridiculous reasons anyway and if you are going to buy say for example a set of brakes costing £2000 pound without thoroughly researching, then quite frankly you cant be too upset if they turn out to be average.
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I think Review thread updates would be most useful. A great product on fit may not be so great later down the line.
RR - I am really struggling to remember you posting a bad review, hoever, I am also struggling to remember you posting anything bad about your fitted products.
For instance, you must have had bad experiences with Miltek;
Receiving free products must mean you have to sign a confidentially agreement? I am of the opinion that you should disclose your involvement/sponsorship when reviewing such products, especially development items.
....I for one, and I've seen others do the same, add updates to both my original post and post extra in my review threads. I'm not going to spend time reading all my review threads to point out where I have written criticisms - They are there for all to read.
I have never been asked to sign any "confidentiality agreement" in the car world - The only such document I've ever signed is for Adobe when pre-release testing their Creative Suite software - A 6-page document.
Why "must" I have had bad experiences with Milltek? - Because others state they have?
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A fixed format wont work for lots of reasons. You can try but it wont work. All the reviewer has to do is deny any discount or cheaper price. Your basically trying to change how tinternet works. Even a completely genuine review, is more often than not, loaded, because they are affirming there choices.
All you can do is use your own brain when reading the review, base your decisions on the person who wrote it as well as the product. I, for example know John_O very well as person, and i know he will be completely impartial, because thats just how he is. :happy2:
On the other side of the coin, For example if Mat or Robin write something about VWR, then unless you have just climbed out of the ground and not read any of there posts about VWR, you will know about their enthusiasm :wink.
People often make choices for ridiculous reasons anyway and if you are going to buy say for example a set of brakes costing £2000 pound without thoroughly researching, then quite frankly you cant be too upset if they turn out to be average.
....Absolutely spot-on!! :congrats: :congrats: :congrats: :congrats: :happy2:
At last someone who understands the real world! I wish I'd written that.
I would only add that rather than this site (ie SteveP) impose an absolutely rigid and fixed format, there should be strong GUIDELINES which of course get Moderated.
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A fixed format wont work for lots of reasons. You can try but it wont work. All the reviewer has to do is deny any discount or cheaper price. Your basically trying to change how tinternet works. Even a completely genuine review, is more often than not, loaded, because they are affirming there choices.
All you can do is use your own brain when reading the review, base your decisions on the person who wrote it as well as the product. I, for example know John_O very well as person, and i know he will be completely impartial, because thats just how he is. :happy2:
On the other side of the coin, For example if Mat or Robin write something about VWR, then unless you have just climbed out of the ground and not read any of there posts about VWR, you will know about their enthusiasm :wink.
People often make choices for ridiculous reasons anyway and if you are going to buy say for example a set of brakes costing £2000 pound without thoroughly researching, then quite frankly you cant be too upset if they turn out to be average.
The thing also with a review it's only one persons thoughts on a product and it's upto people who have chosen to buy what ever the product is then if they can add to the review ie pros and cons. At the end of the day it's our money and what we do with is no ones business and if a product turns out not to your liking then take it up with the dealer and also post in the review section of what is going on as it helps everyone in the long run. As for the brake pad thing why was nothing ever put on the review about it ages ago :confused: surely it was for us all to know what was happening with the pads that are more for the road then track to put into the review the brakes don't like said pads on track so I am trying something else on track :confused:. If I was having a problem with a product that was on this site I would state it but I can only go on what a product is like on my car simple as that.
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I think there should be a suggested format for a review, purely so that they all read the same. This would save any reviews that basically say
"dis iz da bez ting sinz slyzd bred"
I don't think posting up the price you paid if you got discount is relevant. But if it's a development product then maybe they could say "as this is a work in progress/being tested on my car i have been given the kit/given a substantial discount while they work out any problems that may occur"
I take any advice and opinions given/read exactly as that, Advice & Opinion. Do your own research and make a balanced informed judgement about the product you intend to purchase. Only you as an individual can decide if the product is what you want to spend your hard earned on. I was recently offered to have something fitted on my car for free. I never asked for that it's just that the company concerened weren't 100% sure it would fit so i was offered that if i pay the price for the item, they would fit it FOC so they could be 100% happy everything was still going to work. If i was then to write a review about the product and then make comment about the free fitting on it. Would that tarnish the evaluation of the product? Or would it display a level of customer care that is often lacking in a lot of companies these days?
We could all sit here saying that DaveB's NQSBBK is the best brake kit ever. However another forum might think they are average compared to Supastoppers-R-Us because they do a kit that is 5pence cheaper and comes in pink! This is were the individual has to work out if they want DaveB's kit or save 5p and have Pink brakes! I know i'm being humourous with that but the point i am trying to make is it's down to the individual to assess any review.
As TC says if they don't do thorough research and take ONE review thread as fact. Then i'm afraid that is their own look out imho.
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I find it funny how people think anybody would have a product on their car and keep it and say it was good if it wasn't! Even if it was free :stupid: hi I'm going to pay 22k for a car, put sh*t brakes on and cos they were free keep em and say their great! Who cares if I have just messed up my car! I don't want to upset the Mr at vwr! Really? Matt is clearly a fan of vwr but trust me if they did not work he would tell em and put it in his review, He is a big boy and a grown
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I give up if I am being honest it's not worth posting a review as it just not worth people thinking you have things to hide and I don't and never have. Way too much arse licking of dave for me as when say Nigel at bcs says anything about a Product he gets shot down but dave gets to post whatever he wants on brakes.
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Well that's this thread sh*tcanned in relation to the title.
Matt , I apologise if I ended up playing the man instead of the ball then that was wrong and I'm sorry.
I never meant to insinuate you were doing anything sinister, the information you provided othe thread was no doubt supplied to you and you repeated it
that said, the VWR thread contained misconceptions and statements that blatantly were incorrect and defied traditional thinking at best and the laws of physics at worse.
the thread contained statements about the performance on track which were just not correct, the products were evolved and tested on the paying public which flys in the face of how good you thought they were when sales started
Do you think it's correct to leave misleading statements in a review when products haven't been paid for initially, I personally thinks its a huge conflict, I stayed silent for many months giving the benefit of the doubt to the kit.
People might value my opinion Matt because I don't give stuff away, who are people supposed to listen to VWR? who advocate putting calipers on upside down? Do I need to go onto EVERY established brake manufacturers website and show quotes that it's wrong or are VWR right because they're VWR?
@ JH Throphy
You need to reread pal never said the brakes were bad...in fact stated the opposite on several occasions, but I reserve the right to say what I want. VWR in the thread title or not.
Back on topic.....
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Mat I wouldn't take it all too seriously, I think your review is being used as a case in point and know one harbours any bad feeling towards you. Keep your toys where they are, we already have enough drama queens on here!! :laugh: :wink: :pomppomp:
We already have a suggested format for product reviews - http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,438.0.html its just that most prefer to ignore it. And had been previously mentioned, what someone has/hasn't paid for an item shouldn't change peoples own perceptions. Unfortunately there will always be sheep that will buy $hit regardless of how good it is because 'so and so' has one so it must be good!! :stupid:
I think everyone needs to take a step back from the keyboard. Were all adults with our own methods of decision making, and that will always be the case. So lets not try and reinvent the wheel and fall out over a very small part of this wonderful forum!
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i did pay for em but i will not say what i paid as it has nothing to do with my view on a product and if its crap you know me well enough to say its crap :smiley:. i respect everyones view on things but i think dave should act like a trader as thats what he is if he is selling a product on any sites and to be honest i know of a few product of his that have not be dealt with in a manner i see as good but like i say too much arse licking dave for me. I know he does not like vwr but he does not control how i spend my money and its unto each person to make a choice and make there own mind up on a product and like i have said add to the product review any problems anyone is having with that product. i am still happy with all my mods on my car and won't bad mouth a company who ever they are if all they have ever done is be good to me i don't like it and will not go down that route when i am happy :smiley:
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Well that's this thread sh*tcanned in relation to the title.
....I think you brought that on yourself when you posted saying you beat me to the subject in the thread I started (locked by myself and now deleted by the Mods), hence bringing that discussion here and away from the VWR brakes review - A good idea which we both (independently) felt would be for the best. You bringing it to the Forum Suggestions pages was particularly appropriate too.
Surely ALL these aspects we are now discussing are relevant and shape the way forward. It's good that we can all have calm and reasoned discussion whether we agree or not :happy2:
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My 2p here:
A standard review format is always a good idea. At the very least, it allows people to consider all aspects of a review. Something that encompasses the majority of points is far more helpful than something which relies on a particular aspect, even if it is biased. It's quite easy for people to think they have the best item for the best price and that they are awesome. I also agree that there should be updates to the reviews - not a change of the original (Which should be left untouched IMO) but an addendum or similar which describes things twelve months down the line - any problems that have popped up, any aftersales care issues etc.
DOI/COI - declaration (or conflict) of interest - normally denoted in journals with respect to the authors. If someone has authored an article on the merits of xyz and have had backing from the company producing xyz eg free product, free aftersales care etc, then from professional standards it needs to be mentioned. Otherwise it casts the whole paper and the authors in a negative light. By being upfront and open about these things, it demonstrates professionalism and common courtesy IMO. Whilst I accept that this isn't the likes of the Lancet, it would still be considerate to others to be open about any interests by the forumite.
Essentially, the more reviews we have, the more accurate a picture is built. It won't be truly accurate and everyone will always have a different experience - we are after all individuals but if everyone posts their honest review, it can only help to serve others. Surely, that's the point of a review?
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If BDM gave me an intake for free I would say that it's the bestest intake.....
Just in case anybody thinks that I got that intake for free on the review pages is hugely mistaken!
This is BDM we are talking about!
Anyway if it was me and I got something for free and it was complete rubbish you would know about it!
Just clearing that up just in case!
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I think reviews in standard format works and should make for easy comparisons between future (competing products), easy to understand and see headline details and not too much waffle......
It should state clearly at the top if said product was paid for in full, discount given on basis of writing review or if you got it for free then peeps can make their own mind up based on the review and the money paid.
Regards Matts posts, I dont know anything about dave or any arse lickin (probably too new to understand that) but I have seen nige at BCS shot down a couple of times (Top cat I think was one pullin the trigger one time) and I asked what it was about, no reply!?, just hope its nowt sinister like BCS not giving free stuff to Mods/site owners and others doing it for pref treatment, im sure its not but................make those suspicious minds think, seen other sites like that too often.. :fighting2:
My views on BDM.............seen lots of negative press on here, probably from the same half dozen people, dont know them, dont have or intend to buy their products, dont care.......
View on VWR, dont they just buy other folks products and stick a VWR label on them and charge 50% more?, it seems like thats about what it comes down to?
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but I have seen nige at BCS shot down a couple of times (Top cat I think was one pullin the trigger one time) and I asked what it was about, no reply!?, just hope its nowt sinister like BCS not giving free stuff to Mods/site owners and others doing it for pref treatment, im sure its not but................make those suspicious minds think, seen other sites like that too often.. :fighting2:
Yes you have hit the nail on the head, i was that upset at BCS for not giving me free stuff like all the other companies do, that i decided to pick on him. :stupid:
If you dont mind, we will manage how the forum works in relation to companies wanting to advertise. You just stick to telling everyone what their ED 30's are worth and how great you were at getting yours so cheap. :wink: :happy2:
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I can also have my free BCS exhaust :signLOL:
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Oooh me too!!! :party:
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Having written a few reviews here I always start off trying to follow a format but it doesn't always suit what the product is. Therefore I suggest strict guidelines but not rigid to the point of making the headings irrelevant.
As well as being informative, reviews should be enjoyable to read and be as fully illustrated with photos and/or diagrams as possible.
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Yes you have hit the nail on the head, i was that upset at BCS for not giving me free stuff like all the other companies do, that i decided to pick on him. :stupid:
If you dont mind, we will manage how the forum works in relation to companies wanting to advertise. You just stick to telling everyone what their ED 30's are worth and how great you were at getting yours so cheap. :wink: :happy2:
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Twas the sort of reply I half expected, rather than reply with an answer you have a pop at me for answering other folks questions :notworthy:
Looking at prices of ED30's now, I dont think I got mine cheap :P market price more like (Its my opinion, you have your own too im sure), regards how great I am I dont think thats up for debate :drinking:
As for managing how the forum works, I dont believe I offered advice on how it should work? :stupid: merely questioned why one person gets warned about something and others not so (it seems), perhaps thats forum rules I am not aware of?, still not answered either :grin:
If BCS are giving free exhausts can I have one too or do I need to be a Mod? :scared:
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thin Ice there buddy....
I did a favour for a mod one time and didn't want paying, got a PM from said Mod asking what the value was. That value was put into the forum coffers....thought that was pretty proper myself.
Ive given more stuff away to non mods than anything to mods, wouldn't want to be seen to be try to be achieving favour.
I've got some Polo stuff going on a car soon at less than retail, if the cars owner doesn't cough to what was paid then I'll be putting it up here.
This site is refreshingly free from commercial operators, the worst kind is the box shifting "Tuners" who offer price lists and not advice. There's a people on here me included that sell some stuff, some more than others, the suspects are identified as traders so that people new to the forum are aware that posters may have a vested interest..
I try to put a bit back in to the equation in terms of advice.
So getting back to it.....notwithstanding that free endorsements, "sponsored" reviews are rife, endemic on other forums could we not try to make things a little more transparent on here by stating which category the product falls into maybe as such...
1. Gifted for free to spread the word
2. Done at cost/heavy discount as user aided development
3. Normal purchase asked for a discount got told to poke off
4. Normal purchase I didn't pay the asking price so a saving to be had - make your own enquiries
And before we get back into the VWR thing ^^^^^^ That's not addresses at anybody, I've already budgeted £80 for burgers at Inters
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I've already budgeted £80 for burgers at Inters
going by last years prices that will get you half a squashed cold veggie burger and no chips....... :laugh:
on a more serious note though, and as a trader reading this thread its getting very clouded to read. Things are trying to be said between the lines, and i all thats happening is that tensions are occurring as people have got some very different stand points on views and ethos's regarding products and the way they are marketed, and then ultimately reviewed - rather than discussing how the actual review should be managed.
On a personally note i dont advertise on any forums, my products speak quite clearly for themselves and although theyre never really subject to a review because of the type of product they are, reputation is key to maintain a good customer base. When there is competition on a forum for a product that is retailed in form by more than one entity then there will always be comparisons made and people will always favour the popular 9 times out of 10.
I am guilty of giving freebies, theres plenty of people on here that will vouch for that including some of the moderators, its a choice i make. Do i do it for recognition? nope, i do it based on relationships i build over time with individuals... fully aware that i am not the sole person that they use for the same products.
Now if a freebie was a "loss leader" for the sole purpose of getting a review onto a forum that doesnt allow direct advertising then it could be deemed as a little sneaky, and almost guilt the recipient into feeling they need to acknowledge and thank the seller somehow, wether that be in a thread about their car or a review thread knowing the exposure it would receive and potential customers that could be gained from it. I dont think thats something you can ever 'moderate' successfully to any degree without knowing the full story and the people involved.
Now i dont really want to weigh into an argument when the argument doesn't really need to occur, this is about reviews and shouldn't be turning into what its is. People will always have favourites and strong opinions toward them no doubt, and at times this naturally will cause defensive reactions, as said often its to affirm theyve made a good purchase, sometimes it can be a tip of the cap towards the company as an acknowledgment.
I regularly get asked for freebies from teams for race cars in return for exposure on track, its exactly the same principle.
I can see the flaws with the reviews, RR and Dave make some excellent points, ultimately though i dont believe you can police/moderate a review section as it is always loaded with bias in one direction, rarely negative. I've done reviews, normally after research before purchase so that the review becomes a "this is what i bought, this is a review" i wouldnt have bought it if i hadnt done the groundwork beforehand and that is all a review section can ever be... a groundwork area for people to make an decision based on others opinions, and thats all they are, opinions.
So when youre in the market for something, listen to opinions, discover the + and the - and then make an informed choice at the point of sale. If a forum review was as concrete in its information as some might suggest then if the results you gain after sale dont match the review then who's to blame? the reviewer? no...
Review sections to have guidelines and disclaimers would achieve a more balanced approach, ie stating that the reviews are experiences based on individuals choice and experiences and not endorsed by the forum etc etc rather than trying to pin each review into the same format.
:popcornsoda:
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thin Ice there buddy.... not really mate as I never actually said that was whats happening, only hoped it was NOT happening, merely asked a question (which was ignored) and instead have a pop at me?, makes sense?
I did a favour for a mod one time and didn't want paying, got a PM from said Mod asking what the value was. That value was put into the forum coffers....thought that was pretty proper myself.
Done lots for other forums myself, arranging stickers to be made up, contributing prizes to monthly prize draws and even paypal gift funds for helping the running of the site (which im pretty sure I done on this site too with paypal)
Ive given more stuff away to non mods than anything to mods, wouldn't want to be seen to be try to be achieving favour.
At the end of the day giving stuff away is promoting your business, its accepted practice in most businesses
I've got some Polo stuff going on a car soon at less than retail, if the cars owner doesn't cough to what was paid then I'll be putting it up here.
This site is refreshingly free from commercial operators, the worst kind is the box shifting "Tuners" who offer price lists and not advice. There's a people on here me included that sell some stuff, some more than others, the suspects are identified as traders so that people new to the forum are aware that posters may have a vested interest..
I try to put a bit back in to the equation in terms of advice.
So getting back to it.....notwithstanding that free endorsements, "sponsored" reviews are rife, endemic on other forums could we not try to make things a little more transparent on here by stating which category the product falls into maybe as such...
1. Gifted for free to spread the word
2. Done at cost/heavy discount as user aided development
3. Normal purchase asked for a discount got told to poke off
4. Normal purchase I didn't pay the asking price so a saving to be had - make your own enquiries
This is I think what others suggested and what I also suggested, fair for all to see and peeps can take it as they like if they know the full info
And before we get back into the VWR thing ^^^^^^ That's not addresses at anybody, I've already budgeted £80 for burgers at Inters
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I can see the flaws with the reviews, RR and Dave make some excellent points, ultimately though i dont believe you can police/moderate a review section as it is always loaded with bias in one direction, rarely negative. I've done reviews, normally after research before purchase so that the review becomes a "this is what i bought, this is a review" i wouldnt have bought it if i hadnt done the groundwork beforehand and that is all a review section can ever be... a groundwork area for people to make an decision based on others opinions, and thats all they are, opinions.
So when youre in the market for something, listen to opinions, discover the + and the - and then make an informed choice at the point of sale. If a forum review was as concrete in its information as some might suggest then if the results you gain after sale dont match the review then who's to blame? the reviewer? no...
Review sections to have guidelines and disclaimers would achieve a more balanced approach, ie stating that the reviews are experiences based on individuals choice and experiences and not endorsed by the forum etc etc rather than trying to pin each review into the same format.
:popcornsoda:
....Hear! Hear! :congrats: :congrats: :congrats: :congrats:
All any of us offer on any forum is our own individual experience and opinion. We share for the benefit of others but the reader always has to make their own decisions and form their own opinions.
I know that not everyone will agree with me but what was paid or not by the reviewer has nothing to do with the quality of the reviewed product. Publishing the normal retail price is done to give a cost guideline. Focus on the subject of the review and not what someone else paid for it!
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Completely agree - very few people will critcise their decisions. Perhaps it's to do with the pride of having spent time choosing something, paying £££ and then realising it's not all that it's turned out to be.
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Can't there just be a disclaimer stating:
ASSUME THE REVIEWER GOT THIS FOR FREE!
All bases covered then.
There in no way of managing people being honest about what they paid for it, or not if the case may be.
:popcornsoda:
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Can't there just be a disclaimer stating:
ASSUME THE REVIEWER GOT THIS FOR FREE!
All bases covered then.
There in no way of managing people being honest about what they paid for it, or not if the case may be.
:popcornsoda:
:signLOL: :signLOL: :signLOL: I think thats possibly the best idea yet, like he said covers all options............. :drinking:
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The other option?
Scrap the reviews, but I actually quite like reading them and don't take it as gospel.
I bought something fairly recently which is highly rated but turned out to be a complete crock of poo.
So I had my lesson there straight away.
I think just take them as 'I procured an item, I like it/don't, make your own mind up'.
Treat them as guidance is what I am trying to say.
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The other option?
Scrap the reviews, but I actually quite like reading them and don't take it as gospel.
I bought something fairly recently which is highly rated but turned out to be a complete crock of poo.
So I had my lesson there straight away.
I think just take them as 'I procured an item, I like it/don't, make your own mind up'.
Treat them as guidance is what I am trying to say.
What was it that turned out to be a dissapointment (for you)?
PM if need be, I'm just curious
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The other option?
Scrap the reviews, but I actually quite like reading them and don't take it as gospel.
I bought something fairly recently which is highly rated but turned out to be a complete crock of poo.
So I had my lesson there straight away.
I think just take them as 'I procured an item, I like it/don't, make your own mind up'.
Treat them as guidance is what I am trying to say.
What was it that turned out to be a dissapointment (for you)?
PM if need be, I'm just curious
....And was some geezer called RedRobin who wrote the 'review'? :laugh:
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I think there is a lot of fuss being made over nothing!!
If people stuck to the format already provided, and the forum members used the brains they were given to make there own mind up then wheres the problem!!
Come on, were bored of spoon feeding and arse wiping, lets all be adults and make our own little minds up whether the product being reviewed is something that we want or not! :stupid: :signIWS:
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I think there is a lot of fuss being made over nothing!!
If people stuck to the format already provided, and the forum members used the brains they were given to make there own mind up then wheres the problem!!
Come on, were bored of spoon feeding and arse wiping, lets all be adults and make our own little minds up whether the product being reviewed is something that we want or not! :stupid: :signIWS:
Well said.
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Exactly Nath. :happy2:
At the end of the day you make your own mind up. No one puts a gun to your head. :wink:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fmm67%2FLadybear98%2F49787e5c.gif&hash=5b06290f9f44dec09179d898a955c97d960e7288)
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(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ficanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com%2F2007%2F10%2Flolcat-funny-picture-moderator1.jpg&hash=ac78b093d4d12aa4c2b33597bad0e99071e98dba)
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(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ficanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com%2F2008%2F01%2Ffunny-pictures-sad-cat-blackandwhite.jpg&hash=190c60418c4872a08132db1639cc6f7dd04c5e1a)
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(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ficanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com%2F2007%2F10%2Flolcat-funny-picture-moderator1.jpg&hash=ac78b093d4d12aa4c2b33597bad0e99071e98dba)
:grin:
Yay cats!! :signLOL:
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Why cats- well when posting funny pics it's either cats or dogs.
Pros - makes you laugh, pisses off square minded people.
Cons - can be addictive and is just a waste of time.
Why- Because we fooking want too. :innocent:
Oh and i paid in full for this Exhaust cattie pic with wiskers.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Ftomashandmilly%2Fmad_cats%2F72.gif&hash=d7ecdd789086898fe8a9e9a47c63b4bca323485d)
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:signLOL:
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(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.cheezburger.com%2Fcompletestore%2F2011%2F4%2F25%2F104dea72-6e4d-4f38-af9f-6dd3e9e78770.jpg&hash=d1c4ae151a3adc115bb8ca6849f4ce56c706c2b0)
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(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FGreenouse%2FMisc%2Fkl908.gif&hash=0c35c2b7c464b40e97ad50aad5cf04a8a80d00f0)
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(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fihasahotdog.files.wordpress.com%2F2009%2F04%2Ffunny-dog-pictures-monkey-back.jpg&hash=ca1a7f92060b7db072b69942ae39be85c4132ec6)
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(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fabovethelaw.com%2F_old%2Ffunny-pictures-fighting-cats-constructive-feedback.jpg&hash=e0105664056129499a5ea00362cabbafdca50a6f)
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(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.animalphoto.tk%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2Fpictures%2Ffunny-animals-images-8718.png&hash=7a95af6ab413ae353ee08c2d1f558ab963736050)
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Oh and i paid in full for this Exhaust cattie pic with wiskers.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Ftomashandmilly%2Fmad_cats%2F72.gif&hash=d7ecdd789086898fe8a9e9a47c63b4bca323485d)
U sure the cat Society did not pay you for promoting cats :happy2:
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I hate cats! :fighting:
I walk in a house with a cat and within 5 minutes I have to leave as my eyes close up. :confused:
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I know that not everyone will agree with me but what was paid or not by the reviewer has nothing to do with the quality of the reviewed product. Publishing the normal retail price is done to give a cost guideline. Focus on the subject of the review and not what someone else paid for it!
Are you saying that someone/everyone who gets a Freebie or heavily discounted part won't colour their review even slightly?
Eg favourite garage - the little extras that a garage may do/supply FOC will often mean a return visit, accent your thoughts on their service and a favourable review.
I think there is a lot of fuss being made over nothing!!
If people stuck to the format already provided, and the forum members used the brains they were given to make there own mind up then wheres the problem!!
Come on, were bored of spoon feeding and arse wiping, lets all be adults and make our own little minds up whether the product being reviewed is something that we want or not! :stupid: :signIWS:
Agreed, but unfortunately not everyone does/can do this.