MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Modifications & Technical Area => Performance Modifications => Topic started by: ktlstar on February 22, 2012, 03:10:09 pm
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After fitting my rs4 valve, about 3.5-4k the engine will cut out, like fuel cut. What could i possibly done to have caused this ? I guess vag- com is first thing to try,or the engine is in limp mOde?
Thanks
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I ment power is getting cut, and not engine. The engine still runs when it happens!
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Log the high pressure fuel block (230) and see whats going on.
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Will do, at work atm.
Hope i havent damaged anything!
Thanks PDT
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1 Fault Found:
012555 - Low Pressure Fuel regulation
P310B - 002 - Fuel Pressure Outside Specification - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00100010
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 2
Mileage: 27294 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2000.00.00
Time: 10:14:06
Freeze Frame:
RPM: 4775 /min
Load: 7.8 %
Speed: 101.0 km/h
Temperature: 81.0°C
Temperature: 9.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 1020.0 mbar
Voltage: 14.478 V
I will have to log it tomorrow however a scanned showed this, any ideas?
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Reading about it , looks like the low pressure sensor but also check the cam follower. Interesting!
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Changed back to the original valve, however the problem still persists.... :(
my fuel is meeting the specified value also.
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(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fx371%2Fktlstar%2Ffuel.jpg&hash=5cf5c3846b792aaa9542d0693e73a839dc8c0797)
Right my problem is at 3600rpm the fuel pressure drops to 2.00 which is why i think its causing it to cut power. Any ideas?
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That's horrible! :scared:
I would also log block 103 to see if the root of the problem lies with low delivery pressure of fuel from the tank. When did you last change your fuel filter?
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What values am i looking for on block 103 dude ?
I did it whilst idling and i can remember current fuel pressure was between 4-5 and the pressure regulator value was -400, when revving it would decrease.
I assume you want me to log whilst trying to get the car to cut power again ?
Engine has only done 15k, so i dont think it has been changed.
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Ideally you want a value of 5 bar at idle probably dropping to around 4.5ish max at high revs. The closer it is to 5 and above the better it is. The fuel filter has an inbuilt relief valve for pressure over 6.2ish bar.
As for the fuel filter, it should be ok at 15k provided there hasn't been loads of crap in your tank.
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It has only happened since i changed the valve over.
I now reverted back to stock valve.
All i did was, removed the 2 fuel lines that go into the block, 2 on the HPFP, unclip 3 sensor clips, 1 on HPFP, 1 on DV, and 1 just above the DV (ED30 engine).
PCV was also removed.
No leaks at all, you can see from the logs, however it makes a fit at 3600rpm.
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Are things back to normal with the stock valve?
If not then one can only assume that you have inadvertently disturbed something or your electrical connectors aren't all securely home.
Perhaps you could also check the function of the solenoid on your HPFP. You can do this in VCDS by going into the Engine Controller ->> Output Tests ->> and from the drop-down menu Choose "Fuel Pressure Regulator (N276)" and hit Start. This will pulse the solenoid on the pump and you can listen to it click if you have the bonnet open.
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The problem still persists with stock valve,
the cam lobe is perfect as changed around 2K miles,
I will try the pump test later tonight, do i want to hear it click i assume (knowing its working)
From what iv gathered its the fuel sensor which is on the HPFP that can be the problem. I can only imaging its the electrical part of the things,, or fuel as gone into a sensor from when i released the pressure/valves.
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Could i of damaged anything whilst cranking the engine to get it started ? Obviously it took a while for the engine to start once the valves were swapped over.
Once they did start it struggled to keep alive, gave it a few minutes and the engine starts first time perfect/ idles perfect.
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Could i of damaged anything whilst cranking the engine to get it started ? Obviously it took a while for the engine to start once the valves were swapped over.
Once they did start it struggled to keep alive, gave it a few minutes and the engine starts first time perfect/ idles perfect.
Might have been an idea to have the ignition on and open the drivers door for 5-10 secs and repeat a couple of times as this primes the fuel system.
However i doubt that would cause damage. It's only the same as running out of fuel
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I also did this a few times.
my option is the low pressure sensor which im getting tomorrow. touch wood its that!
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I also did this a few times.
In that case you shouldn't have caused any damage. Fingers crossed it's the low pressure sensor
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do you have an engine cover on yours eric??
if so is that the sensor thats ontop?? because the apr fuel pump internal installation is for an audi A4 iirc and peoples have broken once the engine cover was installed needing a new sensor due to it cracking
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I havent mate, no engine cover!
:(
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thats me all out of ideas then unfortunatly
hope you get it sorted soon, i'll keep ym eye on this as im fitting pump internals next week hopefully
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Yeah, youll know about it, just when you go past 3500rpm its like someone has put the brakes on. Felt like my starlet when it had fuel cut to save the engine.
Yours should be ok, take your time fitting it!
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I will try the pump test later tonight, do i want to hear it click i assume (knowing its working)
Yup
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What is the part that is behind the manifold, and has a hose coming from the PCV down into it ? Is this the fuel regulator- I remember trying to remove it to get clear some space to get a spanner for the valve ? Another possible suspect!
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I had this the other month. Happened a few times, then car started cutting out altogether. Turned out to be the in tank pump with mine.
It's worth driving about for a while logging the low pressure pump, that's how I found mine.
It might not be the same with your car, but worth checking anyway
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What measuring block is this dude ? How could i have screwed this up whilst fitting the valve ?
Thanks for your input !
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Think it's 103. Mine went for no apparent reason. I had a faulty low pressure sensor aswell afterwards, gave an error code and engine light, but no apparent difference to power was noticed
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I see, my car just cuts power / limp mode as soon as i hit 3600rpm. as you see from the logs the fuel actual drops to 2 :(
thanks dude
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Think it's 103.
Yup that's correct...
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here is one of my logs with a poorly in tank pump :surprised:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fb150%2Fheavyd123%2Ffuelpressure.jpg&hash=5094e9630a36b6b64e2e0989f22987520bd2263e)
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Interesting, you have more differences than me, however you said you didnt notice any difference or throw an engine fit.
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Changed the sensor and still happens. What could i try next ?
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No I did notice engine power dying, but only with In tank pump and nothing noticed off the faulty sensor I meant. Maybe blocked fuel filter?
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(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fx371%2Fktlstar%2Ffuel3pg.jpg&hash=48e8a1b4da48068d06fbdc712513ac9f79f3776d)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fx371%2Fktlstar%2Ffuel2.jpg&hash=41df7795ed11eda3b373548454f808f45055d99e)
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(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fx371%2Fktlstar%2Ffuel2-1.jpg&hash=d0e2896d233d70b2440945c68f349a248cebf649)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fx371%2Fktlstar%2Ffuel3pg-1.jpg&hash=9b9a487bf962f1d453c94e8ccbd9b186e4c8ea4a)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fx371%2Fktlstar%2Ffuel4pg.jpg&hash=2f121bbad51ca346c35ae7b1085f88dc686fa5de)
A better picture of it, you can see the fuel drops dramatically when the power holds back.
How are the values on the Low pressure pump ? Not to sure on the values.
I think i may of screwed something when i was cranking the engine over to get it started.
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Looks like the in tank pump? but I'm no expert, my method is replace everything until I get there in the end :signLOL:
The low pressure pump shouldnt really be going below 4 bar.
Heres a log after I changed the pump, notice pressire and adaptation values. yours maxes out trying to get the pressure up. you might have damaged some pipework oir something, good luck getting uit sorted
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fb150%2Fheavyd123%2Fpump.jpg&hash=039fd2dd5979350c93087710a8785e0937413ff9)
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The only pipework is the fuel lines but they are metal, there are not kink on it or leaks.
So your thinking its the in tank pump that be the problem ? and no the HPFP.
How much are they (dreaded to look)
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your low pressure level is around 2 bar when you are getting problems. As you can see in the logs mine doesnt go below 4 bar, even on idle.
Theres got to be some reason for it? wait for an expert to come along is your best bet, maybe VRS alex or PDT can give you some better advice, might be worth gving them a PM.
Pump was less than £200 from what I can remember
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I phoned PDT today, i sent them logs so will see. I spoke to either Dave or Martin i think there names are, and very helpful.
It's either the High fuel pump or the Low fuel pump thats causing the issue. Or both lol!
Yeah i see yours does not drop even at high revs,,,,,
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Any help people would be appreciated.
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bump.
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(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fx371%2Fktlstar%2F5.jpg&hash=7769f05be50868d6696f0b531c91c49f2bd70f01)
Another 2nd gear pull, pretty much full throttle even though it does it without boost.
2nd coloumn of values is the fuel regulator, 7/8 is high fuel rail actual/specified.
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I still think its the pump. the high pressure pump isnt getting enough fuel, so cant be that.
You can see in the 4th column, when the pressure drops, the fuel pressure regulator value is going to 4000 to try and get the fuel through.
Looks like you might have to spend teh money on a new pump if no one else is going to give you any ideas, unless you have a mate who will let you borrow his pump for 10mins.
Its only a 20 minute job to swap the in tank pump over, hardest part is getting the seats out
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Cheers Heavyd for some info mate,
I had the pump out today, yeah them bloody clips are a pain to get out!!
Anyway i got mine out and my mates normal gti but it looked different so i didnt risk it.
Went VW and they wanted £167 then he said something about the control module £93 ontop.
Do i need this control module ? I dont think i do.
Anyway a mate can get me a pump the same one VW quote me for around £100 from TPS which is not to bad!
I do think when i was cranking the engine over caused the failure.
So does 4000 mean its working 100% ?
These log are sent back to PDT @ Dave. Touch wood he can pinpoint the problem/
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The value shouldn't get to 4000, like it is until it goes iffy. I didn't buy a regulator for mine.
Mine went dodgy after the garage put the camshaft in wrong. £100 is better than what I paid. You might have to try method of repair as looks like no one else is willing to give any decent advice :confused:
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It's cool, oh dear so i guess its easily to damage it!!
I l hear back from PDT but yeah i aswel now think its te pump!! Cheers bro
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There was an update to the LPFP in the past to help sort out a cold starting issue so I suspect your mate had an early year model GTI.
I suggest you first change your fuel filter before shelling out the big buck for the pump and redo your logs.
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Yeah i guess so fella! Cheers.
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Sorry for the delay replying to your email, i have literally just sat own at 11.15pm after being on the dyno ince 9am.
From what I have seen in your email it seems a fault with the low pressure fuel supply, change the fuel filter and see if that helps. (not likely but worth a try as a process of elimination)
Will take another look over your logs tomorrow hen I can see/think properly.
Dave.
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Dave,
No need to apologies, I highly appreciate you helping.
I'll get hold of a filter + Pump Tuesday.
Thanks!
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Fuel filter changed and........ I think it has worked! I managed to get the wheelspinning in second without no power cut!
I will try on way home tonight if its fully sorted it out!
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fingers crossed it worked :happy2:
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At least it was the cheaper out of the two possible causes :happy2:
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Great news... :happy2:
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PROBLEM SOLVED :congrats: Fuel filter was the culprit!
Currently on stock Revo settings from removing the battery, but no fuel cut during my way home from work!
I thank you all who put there time to posts on this thread to help me out!
Now is it the case of putting the rs4 valve back on or just sell it ? Do i really need it ?
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I would put the valve back in as the slightly higher cracking pressure gives your injectors a little extra headroom.
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lol, i dont want to fubar anything again! DOH!
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can u give me the part number plz :happy2:
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079 130 757 - rs4 valve
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think i might sell mine for time being! so if your after it pm me ;)
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Nice one, logs indicated the low pressure side was at fault :smiley:
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Thanks Dave,
Do you think i should try the rs4 valve again ?
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Its up to you, my personal experience is that they are not needed, so I have not one a huge amount with them.
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Well reason i brought it was because i could feel the flat spot at 5k, but to be fair i hardly ever boot it to bother me, so i have sold it anyway!
Car is running sweet as ever, still cant believe it was the filter.
;)