MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => How to Guides / Troubleshooting => Topic started by: SteveS on May 02, 2009, 11:31:08 am
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ok, so i fitted the forge DV, however im not sure its working right...
the real boost just doesnt seem to be there, if i put my foot down theres no wheel hob/spin in 2nd like there useto and seems like a lack of power....
if i lift off the gass i dont really hear any "air" release sound as before.....
I do have a yellow spring instead of the standard green one as forge recomend it, but i cant see that causing any issues because if anything, it would keep the DV shutand thus boost would always be pushing into the engine..
i have checked the pipes, checked the orings, checked the lube... i duno??
and no i dont have no darn boost guage yet!! lol
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not turned Revo to standard mode have you?????
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it shouldnt be no, but i will check incase, but i dont think its gonna be that
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Did you disconnect the battery?
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to install it? no..
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http://www.forgemotorsport.co.uk/media/FSITV0108.pdf
There is a link from Forge`s site
Dont know if that will help in any way????
Not saying anything wrong about the fitting or anything , just in case it can help you
Hope you dont mind?
Sarah
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thanks sarah, but thats the guide i followed. its all as should be..
just pulled the battery out, now going to reflash revo settings and see how it feels
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to install it? no..
You sorted it steve?
Dan
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Are your hoses to the DV orientated correctly?
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orientated correctly?
well removing the batt and re-revo settings, feels maybe alittle better but still not convinced... need to get that boost guage fitted i guess.
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I think I found the problem!
I bought this off a guy from here from eBay. so already had the tubes attached, when I received it I was going to check it was the rite one but didn’t.. typical... neways
the nipple on the vacuum tap was the "accessory nipple" (imp guessing looking at the hole size) not the "solenoid reference" nipple! So I can only assume not enough air is getting though to work the thing properly?
ok, yes it’s an issue, but surely it still only leaves the DV closed so pressure is always sent to engine rather than dumped.. so I can’t see how this would mean less boost?
I don’t know how the electrics work.. but obviously the solenoid may not be seeing the right amount of air and I duno.. reducing the turbo or something :s
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.upload2world.com%2Fget-5-2009-upload2world_com_lxc.jpg&hash=fdf8b1cdcbe3cfa861e4954b87b8b45a645a9532)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.upload2world.com%2Fget-5-2009-upload2world_com_ezqfcog.JPG&hash=7beb7e17d78fdb239609b18311de62e7955c175b)
another issue is, i only got sent the boost gauge nipple. so i dont even have the right one! i will contact them and forge to try get it!
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:mad:
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:mad:
Hope u sort it mate.
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well i hope its the only problem, i dont know if it would actually cause the boost issue??
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i have spare nipples :ashamed: :laugh:
if you give forge UK a call then they are very very very helpful and nice people, they helped me get mine back up to power! :happy2:
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also steve, have you put the old DV back on to see if you notice a difference? :smiley:
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i have spoken with forge and they are sending me out the nipple.
however they say it only servers to OPEN the DV not keep it shut, so its unlikly to be my issue.
Its strange, with the standard one, if i floored it in second, i would have loads of wheel spin when boost kicked in.
however with the forge, i dont get any and it feels like there is not "woosh" of boost..
I havnt installed the original because its such an effort.
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def sounds like you have pipes on wrong or the valve itself is not sealing Steve.
I assume you have actually fitted the solenoid part and the extend wires to it?
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its all exactly as the manual. :confused:
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take it off then and check the piston is able to move up and down ok...?
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tried that before i even put it on, even if it was stuck down, it should still give me boost, just not release it
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have you removed the spacer? worth trying running without
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agreed. i want to, but they never gave me my shorter bolts, so i cannot, i asked them to get some to me, but they lost mine, so having to get some from VW and they are on back order! so until i get shorter ones, im buggered
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:sad:
little washing up liquid + water mix over the dump valve to check for leaks :surprised: :scared: ????
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dont think i would see it while i drive, dont think its the same as with load
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I didnt suggest while driving lol. ok, so of limited use with no load car standing still (and according to TT not good for your turbo) but prob enough to see if you have a damn great leak.....
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i was joking :p
I just tried reving then off, it seems to make a reasonably big dump (cuz of spacer) so that didnt help.. its very strange.. a guage would help i guess!!!
this is how its connected
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.imgupload.org%2Fimages%2F588_dvtubes.jpg&hash=992287a19210ef9533d3f5ff1a3db1233c07e849)
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There have been complaints on the American forums that the Spacer results in boost leaks, so maybe thats your problem (i know you don't have the shorter bolts yet)...
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i hope so! i will remove it asap.
got any shorter bolts????
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Sorry I can't offer any useful advice Steve but I hope you get to the bottom of it soon mate :happy2:
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cheers mate,
next steps;
> fit correct nipple!!
> remove spacer, pending shorter bolts!!! GRRRR
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Looks the same as my setup.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fdrpayney%2FMk5GTi%2F100_1230.jpg&hash=632ecb79b3a695e25ca4ab6ddb5411bb1194c41d)
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indeed, bottom to bottom of solenoid under plug. top to top of solenoid. end of solenoid to vacuum tap..
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well i got the nipple from forge when i got home.
decided to do a quick fit, quite hapyp with myself, all done in like 45-60mins! usually takes me ages to take the engine over off!
anyways, put the bigger nipple on and checked the spacer and dv, apart from it looking a little! oily on the flange, it all looked ok, cleaned it up anyways and stuck it back..
car seems to maybe be a bit better, but i still feel in second it doesnt wheel spin like mad like it useto when foot right down...
i have a guage coming so i will fit that at the weekend maybe and see what it says...
id love to go back to standard to see but its soo much hassle getting that vacuum tap off again! no room to work!
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Sorted this out yet Steve? :smiley:
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WEll after speaking with Forge, they have sent me a NEW DV and Spacer to try.
Nice service! but not holidng my hopes.
I have my guage now, so i am going to fit that first see what i get then try new dv with and without spacer :)
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are there any more holes in the aluminium T piece (vacuum pipe take off?)
If there are, are they blanked off with a grub screw?
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yea correct , 3 holes
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yea correct , 3 holes
2 blanked off?
1 to feed DV?
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thats right.
now i have one blanked with a grub screw as the other is for the boost guage..
got mine in today, just went for a run, seems in 1st boost doesnt get very far round the dial. in 2nd and 3rd, it reaches 20-21 if im lucky. mostly just under the 20.. which is 1.37bar.. could MAYBE be an issue, but not a big one at all... im hoping for 21 at least 1.44bar.
shame i didnt have this before i put the dv on. im going to put the origi back and see what i get..
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hmm never really seen what mine does in 1st, too busy keeping the thing in a straight line!
but it hits 21psi in all other gears under WOT.
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right, just noted down some more
standard dv = 22 even just hit 23 psi!!!
standard dv and spacer 21-22
spacer lost a psi!!
now i have to try the new DV...
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well tried new dv with solenoid and tubing. (seemed stiffer than the tubing i had on the old forge dv?)
outcome............ not what i wanted or expected but let down...
20-21psi... nowhere near 22... so
the forge dv just DOESNT work for me.... stock produces better results!
i have emailed forge back, both uk and usa who have been onvolved. I have a feeling they will want to post me the next tension spring to try... however... will it open enough with such a spring!!
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Are you running with a green spring? as mine runs a lot better with the yellow spring in.
Post corrected
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yeah im using yellow,
green is the standard spring, up to like 15psi, the yellow is for like 15-23 i think
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Interesting results Steve. This may be related, but I remember when you had your car rolling roaded recently you said that it only made 270lb/ft torque, which seems on the low side for an ED30. Do you think there is another explanation for your current problems?
Although, it seems that with the standard DV, your car is fine. How does it feel with the standard DV? All good? I'm only raising this because mine made 302lb/ft in December when I rolling roaded it, therefore suggesting that yours may be on the low side? :smiley:
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could be possible that the spacer leaked, it did look like with it fitted though my test it lost a minimal amount of boost, but i couldnt see it make such a difference to the torque...
with the standard, it does feel move responsive, so im very confused.
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it also seems, and this could be normal...
when going hard, boost builds up to say 21-22, then with the foot still down, it drops to around 19...
that normal?
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Steve,
the boost profile is load and revs dependent so it can and does vary.
try WOT at 3 krpm , vs WOT at 5krpm and they wont peak at the same psi. (well APR doesnt anyway, at 3k I get 21 ish peak , at 5 k itll be 17psi)
on mine (apr not revo) , the boost peaks very quickly to 21 ish then almost instantly starts to settle at around 17psi.
Theres a graph on how the software peaks then troughs to find the stable boost pressure somewhere on golfmkv...
I think REVO has the same 'profile'
Worth also trying on/off on the throttle to see how the car reacts
You are starting to see how useful this guage is going to be for you :happy2:
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john, i believe i can see roughly what your talkin about. progressive does seem to make a difference..
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I have had a responce frmo Forge USA.
I've been trying to source a car to test but cars with the remote set-up are hard to come by here in the states.
You results are the opposite of what we've data-logged with our valve but all of our testing here in the states have been on cars with the compressor mounted set-up. The only theory that I have been able to come up with (barring some anomaly with your car or some limitation in your test procedures) is that the increased distance from the pressure source (the compressor housing) that the lower valve nipple is drawing it's "constant" pressure source from coupled with the increase in volume and lower pressure of the recirculation arrangement on the remote set-up is lowering the amount of pressure immediately available to close the valve after venting.
To explain a bit further, in the compressor mounted cars constant pressure is drawn from the lower nipple on the valve and applied through the solenoid to the top of the valve, this clamps it shut until the solenoid is cycled. The compressor housing is going to see the highest pressure in the entire intake system. When the valve is located near the throttle body that pressure will be much lower. Also, when the solenoid is actuated and vacuum is applied to the top of the valve, the pressure drop in the remote set-up will be much greater and will increase at a much lower rate than that of the comp-mounted valve as the entire run of piping and the intercooler will have to be pressurized before the valve has enough pressure available at the lower nipple to clamp shut, not to mention that the close proximity to the throttle-body will create massive fluxuations in pressure that might be causing the valve to open and shut in odd ways.
If my theory is correct I think that a one way check valve installed between the lower nipple on the valve and the pressure inlet port on the solenoid might do the trick, it should be installed so as to only allow boost to enter the solenoid (or more importantly to not allow that boost pressure to drop when the solenoid is actuated). The longer the length of silicon hose the more volume of pressurized air that will be trapped which should be beneficial to closing the valve as quickly as possible. It might even be necessary to use a small reservoir to increase this volume. Something very small should do.
All a theory but it is all I can come up with.
I'd like to say thanks for the help i have recieved from Forge. The USA guys really seem to want to explain things, as above!
Now it may be my reading, but i get the impression these valves have been designed and tested on a GTI K03 Turbo and just altered slightly to fit the Edition 30 K04..?... could be wrong obviously...
Now if someone could clear that up a tad for me? i think hes basically saying because of the increased distance there is less presure to keep the DV shut TIGHT...
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if it were me it would be taken straight off , fit the new revision DV and wait until someone can confirm its been tested propely in the K04 install....... :happy2:
What do forge UK have to say as Im sure theyve tested it too (crosses fingers) as they are the HQ
you have 2 now, so sell one on ebay , keep the other for later :grin: