MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Modifications & Technical Area => Performance Modifications => Topic started by: PDT on March 12, 2012, 06:30:03 pm
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This wont apply to many of the forum users as the Mk5 rarely needs the ECU to be removed to be tuned, however I am aware that there are many members with other cars that this may apply to so I thought I would post this so that people understand the process and what to watch out for if they ever own a car with the new EDC17/MED17 tricore ECU system.
Heres a bit of background behind these systems: http://www.dyno-tuning.co.uk/antiTuningRemaps/
The ECU needs to be removed and the case opened to allow you to put the ECU into boot mode so that you can read from and write to the internal or external flash memory to alter the software to 'remap' the ECU. This is where the story started last Saturday....
Customer brought in a Fabia VRS 1.4 TSi for datalogging and dyno testing as he was concerned his map wasn't right, his concern was well placed, Map was requesting 2700mb of boost (safe level of the turbo is a lot lower than this) which caused the wastegate demand to be at pretty much 100% even under low load conditions, EGT's were about 120 degrees higher than we would like to see and AFR under load was 12.8-13.2 (ideal should be 11.2-11.5).
The options were to flash to stock or flash with alternative software (customer didnt want to return to the original tuners for more work) and after a discussion he chose to use Revo software, time to remove the ECU and open it up for bench flashing, which is a complete pain as they are secured in place with a security cage with shear bolts, so you need to remove these to be able to remove the ECU from the car. Not in this case... The security cage had been binned meaning the ECU was left dangling in the engine bay. Not a good sign.
So off came the ECU which looked like this:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Famyhedley1%2Fcar_stuff%2FIMG_0865.jpg&hash=cefe975081b05044d9db21c4ab3556f3de1ae729)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Famyhedley1%2Fcar_stuff%2FIMG_0866.jpg&hash=ce224c4b7586f84837f8de012dce6448da3bf1b8)
The black stuff is mastic. This is supposed to be used when re-sealing an ecu but I have never seen it applied on the outside of the ECU! This was a 2011 car so warranty is pretty much gone if the dealers saw this, let alone the missing security cage.
So off came the lid of the ECU and the reason for the over use of masic was clear, this ECU case is supposed to be flat so that it seals correctly, remeber that the ECU sits in an open engine bay and is likely to come in contact with heat, dirt and moisture We had to use very little effort to remove the case so this is how it was left by the previous tuner:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Famyhedley1%2Fcar_stuff%2FIMG_0873.jpg&hash=4424ce7c0e9507989be5683d10ec3b92a63bc258)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Famyhedley1%2Fcar_stuff%2FIMG_0872.jpg&hash=9795c82374589dcae05514ed1da4b0d771f2874f)
So once the ECU was on the bench and we had spent 30+ minutes failing to get communication with the ECU we realised there was an issue that needed further investigation, out came the test leads and we found that the boot pin had a big blob of solder left on it, not a real issue but on closer inspection the actual pad that the solder was sitting on had been overheated during soldering and the track was broken on the PCB, as you can see in this pic circled in red the pad should look the same as the 2 to the right of the circled item. The pad closest to the damage one also showed signs of overheating:
(also notice the black mastic INSIDE the ECU all over the PCB)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Famyhedley1%2Fcar_stuff%2FIMG_0875.jpg&hash=b53da9a365fab294de398f99b3a387d0dbcf6bc3)
So we did some re-working with the soldering station and managed to get communication. Phew! With REVO software installed and some more dyno testing and datalogging, boost was back to an acceptable level, EGT's were lower, fuelling was at a nice steady 11.2 AFR under load and we gained around 20bhp over the other tune. Curves were a lot smoother, yet to hear customers 'on road' feedback but I am confident that it will be positive.
So a few pointers that you should find usefull and questions you should ask:
1. Will my security cage be re-fitted?
2. Do you cut the bolts out or remove them using other methods?
3. Will the bolts be replaced with new items?
4. Do you solder to the board?
5. Can you view the ECU before and after the work has been carried out?
These security cages can be removed without any cutting of bolts, although cutting is easier and sometimes unavoidable, great care should be taken not to damage the security cage.
Replacement shear bolts are readily available for pennies, ask that these are refitted post tuning.
NO soldering is required on most tricore ECU's and you can purchase tools to do it correctly for just a few pounds, this eliminates a lot of risk.
Remember, its your car. Don't be afraid to ask to see the work carried out, any competent tuner will be happy to show off their handy work.
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Name and shame! who was the other tuner with this shoddy workmanship and dodgy map?
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This is one of the reasons I was asking for the video.
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Hmm extremely similar to mine!!!!!!
Mine has no cage. Mine had even higher boost, mine had a damaged case from the angle grinder they used to remove it, mine has 2 scorch marks on the PCB and a blob of solder (keith @APR showed me the burn marks on saturday). Needless to say APr also do not need to solder it.
At least I was spared the mastic issue
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Name and shame! who was the other tuner with this shoddy workmanship and dodgy map?
I have not written this thread for this reason, I will not reveal the name of the other tuner so dont ask :smiley:
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Lol, it did make me wonder Sy :evilgrin:
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This is one of the reasons I was asking for the video.
I have made one today just for you, will post it tomorrow :love:
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Dave do you mind if I copy this to the skoda forum, as its mighty relevant for us. I certainly wish i new of this issue
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That is shocking work!
I reckon we know who said tuner is but i won't say anything. I'm sure most folks can work it out!
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Dave do you mind if I copy this to the skoda forum, as its mighty relevant for us. I certainly wish i new of this issue
Feel free Sy.
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quire worrying actually as a Skoda owner myself with a certain tuners map!
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Unless you have a relatively new car with this type of ECU then the physical damage shouldn't apply. As for the software, who knows??
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I will post a video shortly showing how to remove the cage without any cutting or grinding, opening the ECU without butchering the case and how to connect to the boot pin without soldering.
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running a 2.0 TSI myself, so the physical side doesnt apply, but worred about the software side of things a little tbh
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Logging should show up anything untoward Darren :happy2:
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Great info for members as always Dave :happy2:
Bad ecu work is very common, but accidental slips can still happen to the best.
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running a 2.0 TSI myself, so the physical side doesnt apply, but worred about the software side of things a little tbh
I wasnt aware of my issues until i datalogged it :sick: :sick: :sick: Between me finding out the issue and getting a complete new map did not take long at all. :fighting: Wish id have left it another day as i would have saved alot of money
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running a 2.0 TSI myself, so the physical side doesnt apply, but worred about the software side of things a little tbh
I wasnt aware of my issues until i datalogged it :sick: :sick: :sick: Between me finding out the issue and getting a complete new map did not take long at all. :fighting: Wish id have left it another day as i would have saved alot of money
The jabba map looked good I wonder what their hybrid effort wouldve been like
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running a 2.0 TSI myself, so the physical side doesnt apply, but worred about the software side of things a little tbh
I wasnt aware of my issues until i datalogged it :sick: :sick: :sick: Between me finding out the issue and getting a complete new map did not take long at all. :fighting: Wish id have left it another day as i would have saved alot of money
The jabba map looked good I wonder what their hybrid effort wouldve been like
The Jabbasport map was very good. I think their hybrid could and most probably would have been very good. But when it comes to R&D, APR were the better choice. They ahve much more resources and manpower available to do this, and it'll still take a while to perfect. For a smaller company to develop its a big ask.
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I havent heard of any tuners maps causing an issue on any tfsi or tsi engine failure of recent. My map when datalogged on the rolling road was spot on and well within safe parameters.
With any company you hear horror stories and positive feedback. All I would say is that if it happens to you. Always give the tuner chance to rectify the problem and get it documented before name calling. If it goes to a small claims court it gives you more of a case to present.
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Im not going to comment further, ill end up in a rant again lol.
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Im not going to comment further, ill end up in a rant again lol.
bout time u updated your sig... :wink:
will bring cable round after tea
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will bring cable round after tea
ill get the kettle on. im watching Senna on Sky movies :notworthy:
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Heres a quick vid we made up today to show how it should be / can be done:
Simples.
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Aww fanx Dave :innocent:
Pretty much as I thought and good to see. Those little shear bolts are tricky suckers aren't they and the breaking of the sealant is a licence to lose a digit if ever I saw one!! :happy2:
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I am glad I dont tune these ecus..lol seems like to much hard work for me... I will stick with the 1.8T & 2.0TFSI for the next 10-12years.. :grin:
Awesome video Dave :happy2: Its nice to see it being done correct with care and attention not being rushed to get the job in / out and paid £££.
I just wonder how many times you burnt or cut your fingers.. :wink:
Nick
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I was almost expecting Jeremy Clarkson with a cheesy grin and big hammer lol.
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Very interesting, thanks dave. :happy2:
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Awesome video Dave :happy2: Its nice to see it being done correct with care and attention not being rushed to get the job in / out and paid £££.
Nick
We started this at 9am and finished at 4pm, most of the time spent trying to get the boot pad working again so we could communicate without having to use the leg of the chip. Burnt and cut fingers are just part of the fun :smiley:
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Great work, Dave :happy2:
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Been thinking about getting a stage one remap, armed with this info I'll make sure who ever I choose open up the ECU correctly.
Thanks Dave :happy2:
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Looks like this thread has ended up on loads of forums now. On VAGOC they seem to think it was Shark that did this and happened on a couple of occasions. Quite surprising that this happened in all honesty, fortunately nothing catastrophic happened.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc
Always best to take these examples on a case by case basis, and while Shark get a mention I suspect it is a Shark dealer and not Shark themselves that did the work.
If that is the case then perhaps vRSy might confirm which dealer it was rather than tarring them all with the same brush.
Quote: Originally Posted by vRSy
Nope bopth myself and this guy had it carried out at Shark Performance HQ in Mansfield. This second incident has happened AFTER all the fuss i kicked up on the forum about my map.
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who is vRSy :popcornsoda:
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who is vRSy :popcornsoda:
He meant Rectal Rooter
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Just took that quote from the Vagoc site.
Here is the full link to the same discussion.
http://www.vagoc.co.uk/vb/showthread.php?t=10672 (http://www.vagoc.co.uk/vb/showthread.php?t=10672)
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who is vRSy :popcornsoda:
He meant Rectal Rooter
Ive heard thats not all hes into.
hes also a frequent cottager, dogger and likes to felch
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who is vRSy :popcornsoda:
He meant Rectal Rooter
Ive heard thats not all hes into.
hes also a frequent cottager, dogger and likes to felch
____ ___
Class 1 docker too ____)(___
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who is vRSy :popcornsoda:
He meant Rectal Rooter
Ive heard thats not all hes into.
hes also a frequent cottager, dogger and likes to felch
Haha just realised that I have just posted up what you have been saying over on Vagoc. You should of kept the same screen name!
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____ ___
Class 1 docker too ____)(___
If you type that into urban dictionary you get some interesting facts! Also came up with Space docking which almost made me :sick:
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____ ___
Class 1 docker too ____)(___
If you type that into urban dictionary you get some interesting facts! Also came up with Space docking which almost made me :sick:
That's what I was refering too :grin:
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who is vRSy :popcornsoda:
He meant Rectal Rooter
Ive heard thats not all hes into.
hes also a frequent cottager, dogger and likes to felch
What's Felch? :confused:
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google felching :sick:
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^^^^ wish I hadn't :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick:
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Try googling "Turkish Goggles" or "Tromboning" :signLOL:
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Try googling "Turkish Goggles"
Thats tea bagging :grin:
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Try googling "Turkish Goggles"
Thats tea bagging :grin:
Read something somewhere about back in't victorian days something callled "Snowballing", rank, all im sayin!
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I learned about snowballing from Clerks.