MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Performance Modifications => Modifications & Technical Area => Revo Zone => Topic started by: fuscobal on March 26, 2012, 10:42:05 pm
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Hello guys,
I'm currently on Revo stage 3 (AXX engine code with 10.5:1 compression ratio). For the past 3 years I've been using B9-T7-F9 with 99-100 octane gasoline and the logs looked great (very good performance either). However, on the track, I've had some engine overheating problems and on the last track day, a water plastic pipe broke and lead to the water pump and head gasket failure. Knowing this, I would like to ask all of you what safer settings do you recommend for track use ? (with 9-7-9 the car makes approx. 370HP/460NM but I can happily accept 330-340HP for more reliability/lower oil&water temps) !
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What do your egts look like as F9 seems a bit lean...
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EGTs going to 999+ deg from 4000rpm up but that's what I've seen on all stage 3 cars and I've heard it's normal !
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Really hard to say without logging the car - every car is slightly different, even with the same performance hardware. However, I'd say that tune is really pushing it in terms of boost, timing and fuelling. Try dropping the boost back to 7, timing 5 and logging fuelling to get lambda spot on :happy2:
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Here's some logs made 1 year ago with 9-7-9
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg210.imageshack.us%2Fimg210%2F2513%2Fboost979.jpg&hash=1313bd4b1dcb4bdc185dc43a0dea538774069ff0) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/210/boost979.jpg/)
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(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg441.imageshack.us%2Fimg441%2F7659%2Fcf979.jpg&hash=31c341bd8d7a5983b64ea2530a4f93dcf6e08bc8) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/441/cf979.jpg/)
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(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg714.imageshack.us%2Fimg714%2F614%2Ffuelpressure979.jpg&hash=dacb3ce24b6a9f2351f563f00910f79a9558b4de) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/714/fuelpressure979.jpg/)
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(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg207.imageshack.us%2Fimg207%2F1461%2Fintakeairmass979.jpg&hash=87eefd0b954bb4e00dfd72ba33c49a840b939160) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/207/intakeairmass979.jpg/)
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(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg221.imageshack.us%2Fimg221%2F2373%2Flambda979.jpg&hash=512b35c4a6505928d2e70c933983559a5357b29c) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/221/lambda979.jpg/)
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(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg109.imageshack.us%2Fimg109%2F6224%2Fwastegate979.jpg&hash=88c1cd77af580741b1f3c0e72ab244f4569f6200) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/109/wastegate979.jpg/)
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IMO your logs look great bar the wastegate duty cycle above 6k rpm.
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I know the logs look ok but I'd want to lower the car's power/torque for track use in order to keep the ater&oil temps lower !
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See how it does on track, then make adjustments from there.
My 135i was awfull on track, oil temps sky high and ecu took my boost away from me :sad1:
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Looking at your boost graph, do you have the forge actuator installed?
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PDT, had a friend with 335i with me and it was the same for him with the oil temps. He had to slow down after each hard lap.
Bacillus, I don't have the forge actuator.
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Do you run any cooling hardware to improve the cooling capacity of the engine beyond stock?
I've not tracked a modified TFSI, but experience of using a remapped K04 1.8t on track is that the stock water / oil cooler just isn't up to the task on track. Similarly my track car with a Honda K20A2 couldn't dispose of enough heat running with the stock water / oil cooler on a mildly tuned engine. In both instances an air / oil cooler was needed to bring the oil temps down, and also take the oil cooling load out of the water system.
The K20A2 was really bad - mid summer and only a couple of hot laps would see the oil temp clip 120, but with an oil cooler and no other changes I can run on track as long as the fuel lasts!
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Air cooling is very strong on my car as I have both S3 IC and Forge FMIC, so the air temps are max 10-15deg over the outside temp. However, for oil and water I have nothing more than stock and they probably influence one the other. Unfortunately nobody makes updated parts for water & oil cooling wich brought me to believe they came to the conclusion this engine doesn't need additional cooling in this area !
PS1 : For water cooling there would be a Mishimoto radiator wich is a little bit thicker than OEM but : 1) it may interfere with the air con pipes wich are really close to the OEM radiator and 2) I don't think it can improve cooling too much being in the same position. I would better look into a small radiator to fit on the sides, behind the fog grills as there is high-pressure undisturbed air coming in through there !
PS2 : For oil cooling, INA seems to make a kit but the radiator would be exactly in the position where I'd put the water radiator !
PS3 : The silicone hoses that go to to the Forge FMIC may interfere with the ''behind fog grill'' position !
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The oil cooler doesn't have to actually go behind the grill in the corner, it can go in the middle at the front end either high up or low down. Hope this helps.
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At the front end, there's the twintercooler and I wouldn't install an oil cooler above it because it will block the airflow to the water radiator, S3 IC and AC radiator. On the corner the airflow is best !
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Am I correct to believe that in very hot climates there is an additional radiator fitted next to the fog light on a GTI and ultilises the open grille type fog light surround - an oil cooler could be put in this location?
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Yes, you are correct. That's what I thought of purchasing if my water temps go up even after changing the leaking main radiator. Unfortunately, because of that plastic water piece that failed in the 3rd lap, I didn't get the chance to see if the temps would have been ok or not. Until the failure the water was 90 deg but it was only the beginning of the day !