MK5 Golf GTI
General => Random Chat => Topic started by: Mk5 GTian on April 04, 2012, 07:17:07 pm
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In the continued absence of V Power, which is best of this bad bunch? I'm at Stage 1.
Tesco Momentum
Total Excellium 97
Esso's effort, whatever that's called.
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i tried both and tesco seems better.
when logging i get loads of knock with total 97
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Tesco Momentum is hardly part of a bad bunch imo... :confused:
99 Ron same as V Power so as good as V Power and a better choice than the Total/Esso offerings..
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Esso in mine at the moment,seems to be running fine on it.
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Esso in mine at the moment,seems to be running fine on it.
My nearest filling station is an Esso so i have to have the odd emergency splash of their 97 Ron stuff now and again, car has always run fine on it too :happy2:
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Esso in mine at the moment,seems to be running fine on it.
My nearest filling station is an Esso so i have to have the odd emergency splash of their 97 Ron stuff now and again, car has always run fine on it too :happy2:
............V Power is the norm but with all the trouble last thursday this was all i could get hold off. :smiley:
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Tesco Momentum is hardly part of a bad bunch imo... :confused:
99 Ron same as V Power so as good as V Power and a better choice than the Total/Esso offerings..
agreed, it is 99 ron so is a worthy rival for v power - i use both
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As said tesco momentum is 99 ron. Some tests i have seen have showed better results than v power. All depends on vehicle i suppose.
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Just filled up with v power £1.59 litre. Robbing bar stewards
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I thought I was bad having paid £1.50 for the pleasure on Friday.
Is the Tesco stuff much cheaper?
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I thought I was bad having paid £1.50 for the pleasure on Friday.
Is the Tesco stuff much cheaper?
I switched to tesco as v power was 1.49, tesco was 1.43 and i cant see any difference in performance. My old RS actually ran better on momentum.
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Nice one, cheers.
Will have a look for Momentum when I next fill up.
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Just filled up with v power £1.59 litre. Robbing bar stewards
OMG! Where abouts in the country?
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Just filled up with v power £1.59 litre. Robbing bar stewards
OMG! Where abouts in the country?
been to my usual feeding station all week 6.30am but no v power in so on my travels today (wagon driver) I noticed a shell garage without the dreaded signs up Gorton Manchester area Not happy at all but my tanks are full now :grin:
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Tesco 99 for me, have a station 2 miles from work. Its on average 5p per litre cheaper than v-power and even better that i get regular clubcard vouchers through that i can spend again on fuel.
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Yep, just filled up with Momentum, so will see how it feels over the next 300 miles or so. 5p off per litre and clubcard points can't be sniffed at, and you can actually buy it! :happy2:
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I've been using Excillium Diesel for a few months as I get a discount from work but I don't notice anything much from it. The discount is being withdrawn at the end of this month so I'll be switching back to Shell.
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Momentum 99 all day, its usually 3-4p per litre cheaper and if you shop at tescos and spend more than £50 you get a 5p off per litre voucher so more savings, I filled up at my local tescos on sunday and it was 144.9 pump price after 5p voucher 139.9 :happy2: always good to drop in 50 litres when you have a 5p off voucher :happy2:
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Not sure how you can list those 97 octane fuels in the same boat as Tesco 99, I think your being a snob personally :P
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Not sure how you can list those 97 octane fuels in the same boat as Tesco 99, I think your being a snob personally :P
Do you not remember that news event a few years ago when everyone filling up with supermarket fuel kept breaking down? I still struggle to forget that when I think of filling up. That's why I'd consider proper fuel companies' 97 in the same bracket as Tesco 99 :booty:
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Do you not remember that news event a few years ago when everyone filling up with supermarket fuel kept breaking down? I still struggle to forget that when I think of filling up. That's why I'd consider proper fuel companies' 97 in the same bracket as Tesco 99 :booty:
That was an isolated incident back in 2007 linked only to the Vopak refinery in Essex though, only really affected the SE and was due to silicon contamination of the storage tanks and whilst it was a major cock-up its unfair to tarnish all supermarket fuel inferior without knowing the facts imo..
I've been in many Tesco stores and still haven't noticed where they are hiding the onsite petrol refinery (even looked behind the bakery once) so lets consider where they and the other retailers actually get the fuel from :wink:
Tesco for example part own 'Greenenergy' and thus use them for distribution of fuel throughout their network but as there are only 7 Greenergy managed terminals in the UK they also use 3rd party terminals for the supply of fuel depending on location, for example my local terminal is 'Stanlow' in cheshire which happens to be the sole producer of Vpower for the entire UK and if you were to spend some time truck spotting outside the main gate you'll notice Tesco, BP, Texaco tankers happily going in and out...
Therefore depending where you live in the UK and if buying Tesco 99 you will either get exactly the same base fuel from the same tanks as Shell / BP etc but with Tesco's additive package added at source, in other locations it will come straight from Greenenergy to Tesco specification
http://www.greenergy.com/Our_business/fuel_terminals.html
It's fair to add that Vpower's formulation is not shared by shell and is transported from Stanlow via the pipeline network to Essex to aid distribution so you could argue that will guarantee some consistency of quality but i'd still argue that Tesco 99 is right up there in comparison :smiley:
More important imo is ensuring you fill up from 'busy' filling stations as high octane fuels 'go off' quicker than regular blends so try and use stations that have frequent deliveries to avoid old fuel :happy2:
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I was told that all national V Power deliveries have been suspended for 3 weeks.. :surprised: :fighting:
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I filled up today with v power in ST.ALBANS :happy2:
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I have always used Shell (my late godfather was senior management in the Mediterranean) and therefore my car is tuned for V-Power. But in the current shortage of supplies I need to broaden my options and Tesco 99 (Momentum?) has been advised.
Do all Tesco fuel stations have Momentum pumps?
I was told that all national V Power deliveries have been suspended for 3 weeks.. :surprised: :fighting:
....On Wednesday my local (20 miles away) Shell told me 2 weeks. They said that it was less of a priority :fighting:
Shell could lose massive sales from this. What if we all start to prefer Tesco Momentum 99?
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I have always used Shell (my late godfather was senior management in the Mediterranean) and therefore my car is tuned for V-Power. But in the current shortage of supplies I need to broaden my options and Tesco 99 (Momentum?) has been advised.
Do all Tesco fuel stations have Momentum pumps?
I was told that all national V Power deliveries have been suspended for 3 weeks.. :surprised: :fighting:
....On Wednesday my local (20 miles away) Shell told me 2 weeks. They said that it was less of a priority :fighting:
Shell could lose massive sales from this. What if we all start to prefer Tesco Momentum 99?
I had my car remapped on Monday, and I have to admit, after half a tank of momentum, it is now runnning better than it was on Monday. Unfortunately though, I could only get Total Excelium in my tank for the remap, so I can't compare it with Vpower yet. But it's running really well at the moment, so I might just take the saving and the Clubcard points in future.
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Tesco for example part own 'Greenenergy' and thus use them for distribution of fuel throughout their network but as there are only 7 Greenergy managed terminals in the UK they also use 3rd party terminals for the supply of fuel depending on location, for example my local terminal is 'Stanlow' in cheshire which happens to be the sole producer of Vpower for the entire UK and if you were to spend some time truck spotting outside the main gate you'll notice Tesco, BP, Texaco tankers happily going in and out...
Therefore depending where you live in the UK and if buying Tesco 99 you will either get exactly the same base fuel from the same tanks as Shell / BP etc but with Tesco's additive package added at source, in other locations it will come straight from Greenenergy to Tesco specification
http://www.greenergy.com/Our_business/fuel_terminals.html
It's fair to add that Vpower's formulation is not shared by shell and is transported from Stanlow via the pipeline network to Essex to aid distribution so you could argue that will guarantee some consistency of quality but i'd still argue that Tesco 99 is right up there in comparison :smiley:
More important imo is ensuring you fill up from 'busy' filling stations as high octane fuels 'go off' quicker than regular blends so try and use stations that have frequent deliveries to avoid old fuel :happy2:
I would concur, similar happens with our oil. We have agreements with blending plants around the world and they blend using locally obtained base oil and TOTAL Lubrifiants additive package. Equally we also have partner agreements with companies such as REPSOL and IP Ranga etc worldwide whom buy our additive package and market the oil under their own brands.
So far as I am aware there are three major additive producers worldwide, Infineum, Lubrizol and Oranite. So pretty much everything comes from them in the formulations decided by the petroleum or oil companies.
A large proportion of TOTAL filling stations are now owned by Shell, 254 to be precise and the remainder (556) are owned by RONTEC which is a venture capital arrangement with Gerald Ronson at the helm. Pretty much all are still branded TOTAL but none are now owned by TOTAL - FINA - Elf, there is an agreement to trade with the brand for about 2 years.
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So will all TOTAL garages be rebranded as Shell and hence have V-power available? There's a TOTAL garage around the corner from me and I've only ever used it once when I had my crappy fiesta. At the mo, I have to have a return trip of about 6 miles to my nearest shell so this would be a godsend.
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No only the 254 that were bought by Shell will be branded Shell.
Easiest way is to ask at the till if they are Shell or RONTEC - They will know.
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At the mo, I have to have a return trip of about 6 miles to my nearest shell so this would be a godsend.
....Only 6 miles!? My nearest return trip is 30 miles! Which is why I always fill up on my way home.
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£1.59 is out rageous :sick:
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Pulled from another website, and makes interesting reading. I know it has been done to death............ Nearly as often as Monte's new wheels........ :evilgrin:
greenenergy is the company that supply tesco with 99ron see here for all info
http://www.greenergy.com
for hard facts see this test that was very indepth nearly 12,000miles between tesco 99, vmax and BP102ron
the results speak volumes......
heres a quick glimpse of there work please read the full test above for a great read into this subject
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thorneymotorsport.co.uk%2Ftms%2Fuploads%2F1%2Ffueltest2poweratflywheelweb.jpg&hash=113142e813aa57577973be5054ed448c06343a3c)
and for those who cannot be bothered to read. heres a extract from the conclusion of the test.
The General Conclusion
In simple terms, Shells V Power is near identical to the Optimax product that it replaced, in power and ‘feel’ terms it continued to out perform all 95 octane fuels and we’d still recommend owners of all performance cars use the highest quality fuel they can find. However the performance offered by the fuel was sometimes inconsistent.
The Tesco 99 fuel again outperformed V Power in all the tests but the differences between the two fuels were marginal and we doubt most people would tell the difference in their cars on a day to day basis. However the Tesco fuel was the most consistent.
The BP 102 fuel showed the best gains in terms of ‘feel’ and performed better on the dyno and on initial fill up, when the fuel was fresh the power gains were noticeable even above the Tesco 99 fuel. However the gains seemed to dramatically diminish over time or with increases in engine bay temperature a feature which we are continuing to test.
The testing we have conducted deliberately concentrated purely on the performance gains offered by the premium fuels without reference to cost, cost is a financial measure not a performance one. However it would be puerile to simply ignore its reference in testing deigned for the general fuel buying public. In pure cost/performance terms its very hard to beat the Tesco product, on average the Tesco 99 fuel was 5-6% cheaper than the V Power (up to 10% cheaper when compared to some motorway fuel stations). The BP fuel at almost £2.50 a litre was obviously the most expensive and even with our £50,000 per year fuel bill it would be impossible to justify using the fuel with any degree of regularity - £147 to fill the tank of the CSL was even worthy of a picture of the pump price guage.
Bottom line? Use the Tesco 99 fuel where you can find it, it offers the best, most consistent performance of the fuels available and it’s cheaper than V Power. If you can’t find a Tescos that sells it then go for Shell’s V Power. If you’re feeling really flush, have a point to prove on a rolling road day (days where car enthusiasts compare their cars power on a dyno) or want to extract the maximum potential out of the car on a track day then the BP 102 fuel is worth a go, just bear in mind that £150 a tank would pay for a good proportion of tyres or some decent driver training.
Thorney Motorsport is continuing the fuel testing (we’ve made a rod for our own backs now it seems) so next up on the agenda is a performance test of all the race fuels currently available to see how they compare to the BP 012 fuel which we will undertake on our fleet of Vauxhall VX220 race cars and on our new Corsa VXR road car. We hope to have this next instalment (starting to feel like a soap opera now) at the end of the year. In the meantime we will continue to test the pump fuels and will continue to publish all of our findings.
John Thorne
Thorney MS run a car in BTCC
http://www.btcc.net/html/driver_detail.php?id=192 (http://www.btcc.net/html/driver_detail.php?id=192)
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Fair enough, that seems like a pretty compelling case for Momentum. I stand corrected with my 'bad bunch' comment! :ashamed:
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the BP 102, i have never seen this in BP before? i only see Ultimate which is 97? is it particular BP stations with offer this octance level?
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the BP 102, i have never seen this in BP before? i only see Ultimate which is 97? is it particular BP stations with offer this octance level?
....I don't know for certain but I think that BP no longer offer their 102.
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People seem to get all bent out of shape over the choice of what is effectively the same thing, even the difference between 95 and 99 RON is not as dramatic as the hype would lead you to believe although I accept for modified cars where the map has been written specifically for 99 RON the difference will be more apparent.
The 2.0 TFSI engine, found in the GTI's, S3's, repmobile A3's and A4's will handle 95 RON without any hint of problems whatsover. In fact the engine is designed to adapt itself to whatever its fed.
Furthermore based on my real world click to click mpg figures there is feck all difference between the fuel economy you get with 95 RON or 99 RON. The difference is so small it absolutely doesn't outweight the additional cost of 99 RON and indeed leaving your car idleing for a couple of minutes more, the temperature outside, whether you have a boot full of crap, whether you have a passenger or not will completely obliterate the tiny improvement you might make.
From a performance point of view mine feels a touch more lively at the top end of the rev range on 99 than it does on 95 but as most of my driving is a fairly sensible commute its not often I stray into that range.
I believed the hype on 99 and fed my car that religiously for 3 years. Then I was forced to use 95 for an extended period of time and suddenly realised that, contrary to the 'wisdom' of the internetz, my MPG hadn't changed, the car still performed pretty much exactly as it used to. A year on I've saved some money and - astonishingly - despite feeding it 'inferior' (but widely sold and favoured by most of the motoring population) fuel my car still hasn't blown up! :rolleye:
If you need to examine a graph with a magnifying glass to see if there is an improvement then there probably isn't.
Geting rid of the spare tyre will make more difference.
Cars specifically mapped for 99 might be more sensitive to the difference, but stock cars are not :happy2:
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The 2.0 TFSI engine, found in the GTI's, S3's, repmobile A3's and A4's will handle 95 RON without any hint of problems whatsover. In fact the engine is designed to adapt itself to whatever its fed.
Cars specifically mapped for 99 might be more sensitive to the difference, but stock cars are not :happy2:
....Remapped cars are more sensitive to the RON when the remap is set to work best on the higher RON - As is mostly the case with the established reputable tuners.
It's when you are enjoying driving enthusiastically or going for a fast overtake for example, that a lower RON can cause your 2.0T FSI to 'hiccup'. That is hardly reassuring! I prefer a car to be tip-top and have performance I can rely on.
JKM scoped the state of my valves etc a couple of days ago and even after 100,000 miles of remapped enthusiastic driving they are in a very good state and not in need of cleaning or replacing. Why? - Several factors:
- Using a Catch Tank (Forge).
- Changing the oil (full service) every 10,000 miles regardless.
- Exclusively using a petrol such as V-Power which contains beneficial additives. < I got it wrong! :ashamed:
Sorry, but I own a modified Mk5 GTI because I'm enthusiastic about every single mile I drive, obviously subject to road and traffic conditions etc. You don't keep an Arab horse couped up in its stable or only take him/her out for just a trot - You give such a horse free rein whenever you can.
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the BP 102, i have never seen this in BP before? i only see Ultimate which is 97? is it particular BP stations with offer this octance level?
They have the BP102 pumps at the Egham bypass garage on the A30 in Surrey, but that might be because it's opposite Maranello Ferrari!
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The 2.0 TFSI engine, found in the GTI's, S3's, repmobile A3's and A4's will handle 95 RON without any hint of problems whatsover. In fact the engine is designed to adapt itself to whatever its fed.
Cars specifically mapped for 99 might be more sensitive to the difference, but stock cars are not :happy2:
....Remapped cars are more sensitive to the RON when the remap is set to work best on the higher RON - As is mostly the case with the established reputable tuners.
It's when you are enjoying driving enthusiastically or going for a fast overtake for example, that a lower RON can cause your 2.0T FSI to 'hiccup'. That is hardly reassuring! I prefer a car to be tip-top and have performance I can rely on.
JKM scoped the state of my valves etc a couple of days ago and even after 100,000 miles of remapped enthusiastic driving they are in a very good state and not in need of cleaning or replacing. Why? - Several factors:
- Using a Catch Tank (Forge).
- Changing the oil (full service) every 10,000 miles regardless.
- Exclusively using a petrol such as V-Power which contains beneficial additives.
Sorry, but I own a modified Mk5 GTI because I'm enthusiastic about every single mile I drive, obviously subject to road and traffic conditions etc. You don't keep an Arab horse couped up in its stable or only take him/her out for just a trot - You give such a horse free rein whenever you can.
No need to apologise. But I think you missed the bit I wrote about mapped cars being more sensitive to the difference in RON vs stock cars.
Furthermore the fuel you choose has nothing to do about the state of your valves - the fuel doesn't go anywhere near them. Its not usually the part you can see from the cylinder thats a cause for concern anyway, its the stems and springs which have a propensity to gunk up. The catch can may well help in this respect.
If your car is missing at high revs I would suggest the modifications you have done have compromised the versatility and driveability of your car. I've used 95 for the last year and have never experienced such a 'hiccup'. VW state quite clearly that the 2.0 TFSI is designed to be run on 95 and higher octane fuels.
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Robin - why on a direct injection engine is the state of your valves related to fuel used? :confused:
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Robin - why on a direct injection engine is the state of your valves related to fuel used? :confused:
....I was confused and got it wrong! :ashamed:
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Bless. :smiley:
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If your car is missing at high revs I would suggest the modifications you have done have compromised the versatility and driveability of your car. I've used 95 for the last year and have never experienced such a 'hiccup'. VW state quite clearly that the 2.0 TFSI is designed to be run on 95 and higher octane fuels.
....I haven't experienced such 'hiccups' yet either but I have been warned that I might expect it if driving hard on 95 RON on Revo Stage2. I've got a 480-mile round trip next week and I'm not going to want to 'granny' it when overtaking, so we'll see what happens.
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I should qualify that my experience in terms of little to no difference in mpg, very little reduction in power and no issues in drivability / reliability are based entirely on my own driving style, journeys (rural A roads with a little traffic) and stock car.
My point isn't to say that high RON fuels are a waste of time, they aren't - there is definitely a small power advantage even in stock form - but there seems to be a bit of hysteria on this forum about how great high octane is and a genuine fear / belief that 95 RON is damaging to the engine. Just wanting to add some balance to this point of view as I think it has been greatly exaggerated / plain wrong in some cases.
As stated before though, if your map has been developed only to run on 99 then your car will suffer when run on 95 in a way that stock cars will not.
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^^^^
Totally appreciated, ub7rm :happy2:
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The point Ub7 makes is valid, you won't notice any difference in everyday driving due to the flexibly versatile nature of OE generic mapping. I use 98+ in the shed because the map was RR bespoke set up using that fuel. If in doubt seek advice from whoever mapped your car.
Ps the daily gets 95.
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The point Ub7 makes is valid, you won't notice any difference in everyday driving due to the flexibly versatile nature of OE generic mapping. I use 98+ in the shed because the map was RR bespoke set up using that fuel. If in doubt seek advice from whoever mapped your car.
Ps the daily gets 95.
The guys at Storm Developments who installed my remap this week said it would only get better once I'm using V-Power, and this would likely be around 5-7 extra bhp from the 240 It was getting whilst running on Total Excellium 97. As such, I'll be avoiding 95 RON like the plague, but it's good to know I can use 97 as well as 99, as that's what it was set up with.