MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: iainalpine on May 11, 2009, 11:29:14 am
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Hi guys, car is going in for its 40000 mile service but has only covered 33000 miles. this service should include the DSG oil change. My concern is the process involved in doing this. do they need to go out and drive the car pretty hard? i no i do drive like this from time to time but really dont want someone out doing this for me?
has anyone had any issues getting the oil changed and is there anything to watch out for.
iain
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I had the DSG service at 10k miles, due to some clutch slip as I run a modified ED30. It isn't anything to worry about, it simply ensures that the DSG box continues running at peak performance. They did take mine out for a shakedown, but then the DSG and engine are easily up to a good 3 mile run. :happy2:
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Hurdy thanks for the reply. When it comes to this box i want to try and follow it to the letter for service requirements etc. Its trying to find a decent garage to do the service on it. From the guys i have spoke to there seems to be a lot of tech's that dont have a clue how to do it properly. what costs were involved with getting this done.
Iain
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Hi Ian, i think the DSG service is around £300 before bartering :wink: at the dealers.
And you wont get many specialist's doing this yet, i remember TT posting up what is involved and its not as straight forward as a normal oil change.
I would find a dealer with a big catchment area and use them, purely on the basis that they will have done quite a few and know how to do it with a bit of experience as well. Thats not discounting that you might end up being unlucky and get the worst mechanic in the world. :laugh:
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I'm just posting this for information purposes on what the oil change entails.
http://www.mkv-gti.net/wiki/index.php?title=How_to_change_DSG_transmission_oil
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Votex did mine at 2nd service, think the oil and filter comes in around the £70 mark. I'll find the invoice later.
Apparently it was faily easy, there's just a very specific proceedure to follow.
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Nice one Bacilus, seems pretty straight forward if your at all competent at this sort of thing, as Mike says, its just following a procedure. :happy2:
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yeah, i get it costing around £245..
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yeah, i get it costing around £245..
I hope you're talking about a normal service and DSG service combined at that price?
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my bad.. i get the dsg oil and filter change coming out at £170..
service would be on top of that price...
sorry.lol
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Had my DSG Oil and Filter changed at AMD last week £188, apparently the oil has to be a certain temperature and I had to leave the car overnite as it was to hot after just arriving.
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Do you guys think VW would start hiding a bit if you went in for a warranty work on the DSG after a service, not done by one of their approved dealers. I know and understand that as long as you use genuine parts that they should, but what do you think they would do in the real world. Would they be able to wriggle out of it some way. :chicken:
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id like to think not..
i do have my moments of tuting at ppl that dont get stuff done by vehicle manufactuer, especialy on a new car.. but at the end of the day, it comes down to cost.. and i know little things like nice seating area, free coffee and tea, friendly staff, nice clean tidy environment dont add up to the cost you pay at a dealer, but its a better (or ment to be) experience...
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I think VW would laugh their bol****s of if I went for some warranty work, LSD, Intercooler, Map, Zorst, Brakes, Carbon bonnet, etc etc...... :smiley:
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Why should they need to take the car out for a DSG service?
From what I read its a matter of....
Draining the old oil.
Filling new oil - 5.5 litres.
Switching engine on and allowing it to warm up. While its warning, you go through each of the gears/modes on the DSG box (R, N, D, S, and finally back to P).
Cant remember whether you switch engine off before or after draining any excess oil though.
So, do they need to take it out for a spin?
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they would road test the vehicle, as they do after anything engine related..
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In that case, I'd be inclined to book the car in, wait for the oil to be changed, and then go on the road test as a passenger if possible!!
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I would find a dealer with a big catchment area and use them, purely on the basis that they will have done quite a few and know how to do it with a bit of experience as well.
Speaking of VW dealerships, I've just decided to change my local dealership. All they seem to do is Vdub Van's and the other day I asked for a VAGCOM option changing and they wanted to charge me labour for doing it (car was already in for waranty bits).
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Going by what has been said, there seems to be a bit of a price difference for the DSG servive and also for just getting the box serviced on its own. I have been quoted around the £50 mark for mine but this seems a bit cheap when i see what has been posted. i no gargaes will have a different labour rate but the difference is pretty extreme.
Iain
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£50 does seem a bit cheap..
vw allocated time is 0.90.. so then it just depends on labour..
its the oil and filter that needs doing
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In that case, I'd be inclined to book the car in, wait for the oil to be changed, and then go on the road test as a passenger if possible!!
....Why be so paranoiac? The VW mechie/techie needs to check that everything is as it should be before it's signed off as satisfactory for you to pay for and take back. It's a matter of responsibilities - They have a responsibility to return your car to you in safe and working order.
What harm is the VW guy likely to do to your car testing it that you are worried about?
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RedRobin, I lecture in automotive engineering and have quite a good insight into what actually goes on in the garages. People say knowledge is power but in this case its fear as its a bit hit and miss when it comes to getting things done the way they should be done. My mission was to find out all the in's and out's of the DSG service from guys on here as there is quite a few that have had this carried out. Thousands of pounds for a new box a year down the line doesnt wash to well with me due to it not being serviced by the book, and my car is out of its 3 years cover in august.
Iain
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Personally I don't use VW dealers for work on my car (only the first service), I'd much rather have people I know and trust and have carried out all the mods over the last 2 years work on the car rather than a 17yr old on work experience. Having the book stamped by VW doesnt bother me, (A Mechanic at AMD wants to buy it anyway). :happy2:
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In that case, I'd be inclined to book the car in, wait for the oil to be changed, and then go on the road test as a passenger if possible!!
....Why be so paranoiac? The VW mechie/techie needs to check that everything is as it should be before it's signed off as satisfactory for you to pay for and take back. It's a matter of responsibilities - They have a responsibility to return your car to you in safe and working order.
What harm is the VW guy likely to do to your car testing it that you are worried about?
Dont go there Robin!, erh where do i start!!. Bonnet and wheel damage to start......
i would be wanting to be the passenger aswell tbh.
Its bad enough having to go back to get my steering module done at the garage that managed to damage it last time out.Their Senior Mechanic is doing the work and not some Hungry looking teenager driving customers cars in and out of the workshops that i witnessed just this morning. :mad:
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@ iain, Neil, Phil :
Reading about your experiences, I really can't believe that my VW dealer is the only good one in the country! Surely I'm not the only person who reports good things rather than only bad experiences.
By treating people equally no matter who they are, and not as if I thought they were illiterate spotty teenagers, I have built up a strong working and very friendly relationship over my (nearly) 4 years of GTI ownership. My VW dealer knows who I am and understands my requirements. This relationship extends to their autonomous body shop (accident repair centre). The key to getting the best from people is by mutual respect and having a relationship (I'm hooking up with one of the VW guys at JapFest at Castle Combe this weekend - A shared enthusiasm).
I consider the Head Service Manager to be a friend of mine and he always arranges the timing of any work to be done on my car to be only done by their best couple of mechanics. The mechanic who works on a car is the one who drives it in and out of the workshop and is the one who test drives it afterwards, if appropriate. Okay, I have plenty of time, but if you care that much, then make time and give them the help to help you - You're meant to be on the same team.
I'm often in the workshop myself and there is also a glass wall rendering it like a goldfish bowl.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FRedRobin_05%2FBIALI%2FBIALIshirt_Loders.jpg&hash=a4894e142f97b5ab235d493d7b5fb1075303a59e)
I have had 2 DSG full services - One by my VW dealer and the other by VWR when they installed my Quaife.
So, just because some of you have had bad experiences or lecture in the subject (I don't see how lecturing qualifies an insight unless it's direct experience), it doesn't automatically mean that all VW dealers should be avoided and I don't think it at all fair to suggest so to all those who read these forums.
:smiley:
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(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FRedRobin_05%2FBIALI%2FBIALIshirt_Loders.jpg&hash=a4894e142f97b5ab235d493d7b5fb1075303a59e)
Wheres your spanner Robin, look like you know what your doing there :signLOL:
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Hey RR, what tune do your Air Horns play??
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Foo163%2Fneilmelvin%2FAir-horn.gif&hash=c4ad447f8f49db5d89f3ae9d6603714c764e59a5)
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@ iain, Neil, Phil :
So, just because some of you have had bad experiences or lecture in the subject (I don't see how lecturing qualifies an insight unless it's direct experience), it doesn't automatically mean that all VW dealers should be avoided and I don't think it at all fair to suggest so to all those who read these forums.
:smiley:
I agree fully. It's not nice hearing of ppl having bad experiences.. even more so, because I work in the service department myself. But you can't label everyone.
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Robin, I have been involved in the trade for 18 years, from a basic mechanic to master tech to group master tech, manufacturer technical support, manager and now lecturer.. I have more experience than most. I have seen very good garages and top class mechanics. But in this day and age the quality found in the workshop has dropped due to tighter budgets, guys on the workshop floor not getting the training or time to follow procedure and due to all this not having pride in there work. This is not the case for everyone in the workshop as i said before but you are seeing it more often than not. Out of the 8 or so VW main dealers that i do technical visits to, i would say there are 4 good master tech's and one that outshines them all. He is mid 30's and has a real interest and pride in what he is doing. My idea of asking about the DSG service was to see all the things people have experienced with getting this done as i no for a fact that not everyone os getting the same quality of service.
Iain
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Robin, I have been involved in the trade for 18 years, from a basic mechanic to master tech to group master tech, manufacturer technical support, manager and now lecturer.. I have more experience than most. I have seen very good garages and top class mechanics. But in this day and age the quality found in the workshop has dropped due to tighter budgets, guys on the workshop floor not getting the training or time to follow procedure and due to all this not having pride in there work. This is not the case for everyone in the workshop as i said before but you are seeing it more often than not. Out of the 8 or so VW main dealers that i do technical visits to, i would say there are 4 good master tech's and one that outshines them all. He is mid 30's and has a real interest and pride in what he is doing. My idea of asking about the DSG service was to see all the things people have experienced with getting this done as i no for a fact that not everyone os getting the same quality of service.
Iain
Iain where do live :smiley:
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Hi top cat, about 15 miles outside glasgow
Iain
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I can understand your fear of mechanics making a mess of the service, as the DSG is a very expensive part and it could easily be messed up by someone just not taking the care you would like them too. :smiley:
The only real way for you to get peace is to go to someone whom has been recommended to you personally by someone you trust.
I got my first service done by a small garage called Votex in Congleton. There is a old fella in their polishing cars for customers who are even older than he is. It doesn't look anything special but they are rushed off their feet every time i go, and i can just tell by looking the guy in the eye that i can trust him to treat my car the way i expect him too.
The first time i went their it was to get my coilover's fitted, my car had just been detailed and was looking better than new. When i went to pick the car up the first thing he did was take me to a tiny scratch on the rear wheel and he said, i would like to point this out to you we did not do this. I knew about the scratch before hand it was just a graze from a twig or something, but this showed me that he has very high standards and could tell just by looking at the car what it meant to me.
I will be taking my car to them for the DSG service when it is ready, and i wont worry about it one bit.
Sorry for the waffle but go to someone highly recommended or take a leap of faith. :smiley:
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Wise and very true words there Top Cat.
Iain
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I understand your after different experiences of getting this service done, but i cant see that much info at this stage in The dsg's life.
And even then, if the mechanic fooks it up all they will do is clear the codes and fix the problem and you would never know.
I think if you went to a recommended garage you would have to be pretty unlucky to then get them make a hash of it.
Get the Stage 2 and turbo back Zorst and think happy thoughts. :party: :driver:
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Would love the stage 2.... your a bad man :signLOL:
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(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FRedRobin_05%2FBIALI%2FBIALIshirt_Loders.jpg&hash=a4894e142f97b5ab235d493d7b5fb1075303a59e)
Wheres your spanner Robin, look like you know what your doing there :signLOL:
....You've not realised what BIALI stands for, Phil - I don't have a clue about working on cars.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FRedRobin_05%2FBIALI%2FBIALIboyz_Inters09.jpg&hash=fea193e2508ec8f1188bd9b2517a1b0c01c5afbb)
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Hey RR, what tune do your Air Horns play??
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Foo163%2Fneilmelvin%2FAir-horn.gif&hash=c4ad447f8f49db5d89f3ae9d6603714c764e59a5)
....Those are my old cheap Korean horns which packed up! I now have Italian 3-trumpet one chord horns - Loud (very, apparently) and rich sound but no tune. Very useful if having to overtake more than one car at a time etc.
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If your a ex master tech, lecturer etc etc etc.. then should you not know the ins and outs of this service?
and also, apart from causing a debate, what was your thinking in just asking for ppls views on how its been done and experiences?
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Caz, covering all the things i have done in my career does not mean that you should no all the "in's" and "out's". I no the technical side of this box and most of the details for the service side but im not the type of person the thinks he knows everything and by asking you may learn something along the way.
That was the idea by asking the original question and seeking the experience people have had when getting this done. Simple really.
Iain
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I have seen very good garages and top class mechanics. But in this day and age the quality found in the workshop has dropped due to tighter budgets, guys on the workshop floor not getting the training or time to follow procedure and due to all this not having pride in there work. This is not the case for everyone in the workshop as i said before but you are seeing it more often than not.
....It's far too easy to think that quality has dropped "in this day and age" but I don't accept such a generalisation. There are good and bad garages in every era of time, both past and present. Similarly, there are those who currently take great pride in their work just as in the past, and neither fewer nor more.
Regarding DSG Service (oil and filter change), doesn't it either work or it doesn't? We know it follows a very specific set procedure. Do you know of any cases where a DSG Service has been catastrophic?
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Redrobin, Im not generalising, im giving fact. Without going down the lines of posting the amount of return jobs VW gargaes are getting due to corners being cut and the job not finished to the correct standard along with customer complaint numbers to VW Uk, standards have dropped. Im involved with manufacturer training. I consult on new technology and training packages, and the thing that keeps coming out top of the list when discussing failures is"corners being cut".
I here what you guys are saying about garages and mechanics that you no and have dealt with and on that note happy with. You are lucky to come into contact with this situation, but you are in the minority along with myself and not the majority.
As far as DSG services and failures, yes i have came across problems here. Either to much oil put in or to little put in. Gearbox not heated to correct temp and procedure not being followed. All this with this style of box will and does cause failures due to the very tight build tolerance.
Guys can i thank you for such a good online chat. I dont often get to involved in the forums or quote work related things but its good to see so many respected members taking an active part in this forum and in my eyes its one of the better ones on the net.
cheers
Iain
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^^^^
Many thanks for bothering to fully explain, Iain - It's appreciated and contributes a good balance to the forum as a reliable resource of helpful information.
It's also appreciated that we can challenge each other's views without it being taken personally or a verbal war breaking out.
:drinking: Thank You!
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No prob's Robin :drinking:
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Standards may well have always been poor, but the internet makes finding which dealers/garages are poor a million times easier.
Time was you only knew of x-dealer nearby that was good/bad or a handful of garages that were basically getting by on word of mouth. Now we can find out anything about anyone with the click of a search engine...and for the most part people generally like to rant, rather than praise.
I don't use dealers and wherever possible I won't. If anything is done under warranty, I'm very cautious and have it double checked. I'll also add I've never had an issue claiming on warranty so far on 4 cars in the last 5-6 years by using a specialist.... if anything it has been easier, as my local dealer knows the specialist and knows how good they are, so wouldn't question workmanship.
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For what it's worth I support your concerns Iain, I and my family, and friends, have numerous stories of very poor service from main dealers, including VW. I would be inclinded to suggest that poor service is more the norm than good service as cost cutting reigns and that anyone who has never had issue with a main dealer should count themselves lucky. I wont go into every single incident or this will become a very long thread, but you are not alone in your concerns and first hand experiences.
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che
Redrobin, Im not generalising, im giving fact. Without going down the lines of posting the amount of return jobs VW gargaes are getting due to corners being cut and the job not finished to the correct standard along with customer complaint numbers to VW Uk, standards have dropped. Im involved with manufacturer training. I consult on new technology and training packages, and the thing that keeps coming out top of the list when discussing failures is"corners being cut".
I here what you guys are saying about garages and mechanics that you no and have dealt with and on that note happy with. You are lucky to come into contact with this situation, but you are in the minority along with myself and not the majority.
As far as DSG services and failures, yes i have came across problems here. Either to much oil put in or to little put in. Gearbox not heated to correct temp and procedure not being followed. All this with this style of box will and does cause failures due to the very tight build tolerance.
Guys can i thank you for such a good online chat. I dont often get to involved in the forums or quote work related things but its good to see so many respected members taking an active part in this forum and in my eyes its one of the better ones on the net.
cheers
Iain
Cheers Iain for all your input. Dont be a stranger on here and its good to hear from the inside as it were.
:drinking:
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Thanks for that Phil.
Really enjoy this forum as there is guys that have a real passion and interest on what happens here, and also have a good rounded knowledge of the mkV which helps everyone out.
Thanks again
Iain
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car in today for 36k service at my local garage. have let him loose on all my previous cars and i trust him implicitly.
getting service and dsg oils change for £280 plus vat.
charged me 90 for the dsg oil-that has to come from vw.
and prob 40 squid to re align my wheels after 200miles with new sports springs on...
had to get it done before the remap next month YAY :jumpmove: :driver: :rolleye:
matsu