MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: karl210 on June 06, 2012, 02:03:13 pm
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afternoon all. After being let down by soo many people who are interested in buying my car i finally hear from someone who sounds genuinley interested and half decent. We agreed on a good price, but i had 2 more people coming to look at it the next day to which i said if you want it i will need a £50 deposit to take it off sale which will be forwarded to the guys car i will be buying, he said no problem as he definately wants it. Anyway for some reason he sends a £300 deposit, ok no problem i sent that straight away to someone with an audi s3 i want so he could take it off sale. Ive booked the day off work today so i can drop the car off for him and arranged someone to book a day off work so they can take me to collect my new car. Today has arrived and all of a sudden he isnt interested anymore :stupid: and can he have the deposit back when i have the money for it as he understands its gone to someone else. Now i know i could of sold the car to one of these guys so i rang them both and just my luck they have bought one this morning, so im frantically ringing people up who have been interested in the past because i idealy could do with a sale today. Anyway ive been given an offer a few hundred less so i might go for it but i will now be £300 out of pocket. What would you guys do? im not a theiving git but at the end of the day number 1 comes first and i want whats best for me, i think if i sent him £150 back thats very reasonable, any comments? :popcornsoda:
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Keep the deposit. Thats the whole point in putting one down. Its not your fault he doesnt want it! What a scallywag!! :happy2:
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will have to dig out my contract law book as not done any since the exam in 2007, but in effect if you have agreed on a price etc you have a valid contract and he has tried to cancel that contract. if he was not sure he should have just sent the £50.00 and then it is not too much of a hit if you choose to change your mind.
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if i did that and the brown log hit the fan, how would that fair over a paypal case or even a small clams court case? I would but i would feel a bit guilty but if i didnt i would be out of pocket. There are soo many time wasters out there its untrue
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Unless you can sell your car to someone else for the same agreed price then I wouldn't give the deposit back. Basically try not to profit from it.
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exactly why i said a £50 deposit will do. Im not out there to make a profit atall, im a fair guy and i gave him an amazing price that anyone would be a fool to turn down. Ideally i want the car gone today so being in a rush i am prepared to loose out a small amount but not £300, thats why i was thinking of splitting it 50/50
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You took a day off work, you got messed around. that guy can wave goodbye to £300.
If it was me, i value a wasted day of my time more than £300 so id definitely be keeping it!
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Seeing paypal is involved, I wonder if you should contact then to explain the situation and why you are not refunding the money in case he later lodges a case against you with them.
btw I'm assuming he didn't send the money as a gift.
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If buyer just changed his/her mind, I think it is fare to keep deposit. If car is not as described, deposit should be returned.(again it should be agreed between buyer and seller before leaving deposit)
It is just my opinion.
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Too right! Keep it, say you've spent it as it was the "deposit" and was being knocked off the total cost of the car... his fault he's not going through with the sale and it's cost you this to get to this point.
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Also if it is paypal involved, pick phone up and explain your problem. They will listen and hopefully decide in your favour.
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I think the fundamental question is whether a deposit is still deemed as non-returnable in spite of a non-returnable status not being declared.
In other words, if you told him that his deposit was non-returnable then indeed it is so.
But if you didn't inform him, then is it returnable?
It seems further complicated because he sent you more money than you asked for. That possibly gives him valid claim for the return of his £250 extra.
However, the onus will be on him to claim his deposit back from you and to offer 50/50 is more than fair as a way of resolving the issue without subsequent actions. If you don't know who you are dealing with and this guy isn't averse to applying his own law to get his money back it could get ugly. Who is in the right or wrong doesn't necessarily matter if you end up in a hospital bed and it can be a matter of principle rather than the amount of money which prompts such actions.
The bottom line is that you should have made it crystal clear to him how you were viewing any monies that he sent you. By exchanging money I think you have entered into some form of contract. It isn't as simple as who is morally right or wrong: You can justify keeping it all and he can justify getting some of it back.
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thanks for the comments guys i feel a bit better about keeping it all or indeed some of it now. I didnt mention if it was returnable or not as he seemed very interested and it was just for my own sake that i know its not another time waster, He hasnt sent it as a gift i dont think, but i will contact paypal later on and see what they have to say
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^^^^
Your original post doesn't mention PayPal so I assumed it was cash and answered accordingly. So I reckon that he will speak to PayPal to try and get some of his money back - Worth it for £250-300. The onus is on him not you.
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I wouldn't give the deposit back, if he wasnt sure about your car he shouldn't if put a deposit down. Tell him he can buy the car or he can lose his deposit.
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I wouldn't give the deposit back, if he wasnt sure about your car he shouldn't if put a deposit down. Tell him he can buy the car or he can lose his deposit.
I agree with this
As others have said if he had given the deposit for a car seen online and the car was not as described then I would give the deposit.
If he has just changed his mind then I wold keep the deposit.
I would only put a deposit down on a car or bike after seeing it and knowing I wanted it and knowing I had the rest of the money in the bank.
What did they put the PayPal payment though as?
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If he came and viewed the car and you wrote him a receipt which you both signed then he has lost his deposit.
If he hasn't seen the car and transferred the deposit it classes as distance selling which gives him more rights. If you have a signed agreement then keep it. He hasn't complied with the contract.
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If you have agreed for him to buy the car at an agreed price and you have required a deposit for that transaction then you have entered into a binding legal contract. Whether it be verbal or written if he fails to complete the transaction then you entitled to sue the buyer for the full agreed price. Point this out to them and state that you will be keeping his deposit and discussing with legal representatives how to proceed next. See what the response is .
I would keep the Deposit. If everyone kept the deposits buyers would not do what they have done to you .
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I had a similar situation a few months ago when I was selling some vans on eBay. One was bought by a chap from Romania who said he had a flight booked to London and a train to mine etc. I told him I needed a £200 deposit via Paypal within 24hrs if he wanted me to keep the van for him as the ad stated 'UK Bidders Only'.
I thought that would be the end of it but to my surprise the next night my Paypal had £200 in it. I immediately withdrew it and emptied the account linked to my Paypal incase of any dodgy goings on. He then asked if we would pick him up from the train station as he was coming in on the 6:20 from Euston to which we agreed. We asked him to confirm arrangements but never heard back from him. We finished work early and went to pick him up. We were there 30 mins early and 30 mins after but there was no one to be seen. We never saw or heard from him again
My dad was wondering whether to give the deposit back or not but at the end of the day he prevented someone else buying the van, we had to pay eBay advert fees and claim the final value fees back, leave work early and spend 1hr in the train station, all for nothing. Needless to say the £200 is long since spent :smiley:
Matt
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I'd keep the deposit and not feel any guilt whatsoever.
All you can do is tell him you are not prepared to return it, explaining your lost money and time, and wait for his reply.
It's 50/50 really if this guy wants/knows how to fight for it back.
He could have just asked for it back hoping to appeal to your better nature. Maybe he is not expecting to see it again.
Like you say you could offer him 1/2 the cash back. If you did he should consider himself very lucky.
I, and I'm sure 99% of people on here know the meaning of a deposit. It's a bit of security for the seller against things like this occurring.
Stick to your guns mate. :fighting:
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I would do absolutely nothing until he approaches you for a refund.
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in response to your question....
HEEEEEEELLLLLLLLLLLL NO! :booty:
I think if you put yourself in his shoes, you may try with some hope to get something back.... but if you are honest with yourself, you know the reason why you paid the deposit in the first place.
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I keep the deposit as he gave it to u on the agreement he was buying Ur car, he can't then change his mind!
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I think the law would allow you to keep the £50 you initially asked for (Verbally contracted deposit), the other £250 he should have back as that was not agreed upon.
Bottom line is if he opens a paypal case against you for "Non receipt of goods" he will get the £300 back anyway unless he sent it via a GIFT payment.
It's always good to give them a written receipt for any deposit with it stating clearly that deposits are non refundable.
Personally speaking I would have had it written on a receipt that deposits are non refundable, buyer back out, buyer loses out!!
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I'ts time we fight back against the timewasters :fighting: :fighting2:
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I'd certainly keep it.
He might not have any PayPal protection against a car either
Some purchases - like vehicles in the Motors category, capital equipment in the Business & Industrial category, and Real Estate -- aren't eligible for PayPal Buyer Protection.
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I'd certainly keep it.
He might not have any PayPal protection against a car either
Some purchases - like vehicles in the Motors category, capital equipment in the Business & Industrial category, and Real Estate -- aren't eligible for PayPal Buyer Protection.
You have paypal protection with any purchase unless its digital media (download), he only paid deposit paypal, that means he is covered.
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I'd certainly keep it.
He might not have any PayPal protection against a car either
Some purchases - like vehicles in the Motors category, capital equipment in the Business & Industrial category, and Real Estate -- aren't eligible for PayPal Buyer Protection.
You have paypal protection with any purchase unless its digital media (download), he only paid deposit paypal, that means he is covered.
That's strange, my quote is straight off the PayPal website. You may well be right ref deposit
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thanks for all the comments everyone, becuase i have been busy today and not got back to him he has filed a complaint to paypal which states having not received the goods, i then e-mailed him saying "what are you doing that for" and he said "i thought you were having me over" what shall i do? ive sent that deposit to the fella whos car i am buying and i certantly dont want to be asking for it back nor do i have the cash to give him.
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thanks for all the comments everyone, becuase i have been busy today and not got back to him he has filed a complaint to paypal which states having not received the goods, i then e-mailed him saying "what are you doing that for" and he said "i thought you were having me over" what shall i do? ive sent that deposit to the fella whos car i am buying and i certantly dont want to be asking for it back nor do i have the cash to give him.
Put your side to PayPal clearly and concisely... It's up to them... But be prepared to have the full amount come out of your account... Hopefully they will back you. Did he send as a gift or service..?
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Always assumed a deposit was non returnable unless stated otherwise. Personally I would return the £250. You have still sold your car (allbeit slightly less than anticipated).
:happy2:
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A deposit is supposed to be to secure the car for purchase and non refundable, so if he pulls out then he should lose his deposit.
Althought the main point here is you asked for £50 and he sent £300, why?
Basically you should keep £50 as thats what you aksed for as a deposit.
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hmm i really dont know what to do to be honest, i think i will just contact paypal, tell them the whols story and possibly show them proof of e-mails where he has said he definately wants the car and to tell the other people its sold, and see what they come up with because its going to be upto them no matter what now isnt it. thanks
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Keep the deposit - that's the whole point. It's people like this that can create such a headache selling a car. Interesting slant with PayPal. I would let him dispute with them and see what happens. I would suggest that it would come down on your side. How was the transaction on PP done - goods/services?
Dom
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We'll see what happens but I can't help thinking that, whether rightly or wrongly, the mutually agreed £50 should be kept but that the £250 balance will have to be returned. It's an interesting case and will doubtless be strongly influenced by how PayPal behave with their rules.
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I agree with RedRobin above. You asked for £50 deposit so he is at least due £250 back.
Paypal may even grant him the whole £300 refund as there was no written contract on the deposit
Hope you get to keep some of the deposit , sick when people play with you like that..........
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Hope you get to keep some of the deposit , sick when people play with you like that..........
....Although morally some of the deposit (the requested £50) should indeed be kept, we don't actually know the circumstances which have led to the guy inconveniencing our fellow forumite. There are always two sides to every story.
Without referring back to detail posted in this thread, why didn't Karl immediately respond to the arrival of the extra £250 to the previously agreed £50? He may have shot himself in the foot there.
Unless very wealthy indeed or very dodgy, I don't imagine that the other party is not going to do all he can to get at least £250 back. If PayPal pay him £250 and Karl also keeps the £250, that would be a pretty tidy scam but I'm sure PayPal have got that covered.
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If PayPal pay him £250 and Karl also keeps the £250, that would be a pretty tidy scam but I'm sure PayPal have got that covered.
Reckon Paypal have seen that sort of thing tried a few times!!
:happy2:
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Bottom line is paypal don't give a crap, you cannot prove you sent him anything and he opened non receipt case which means that within 7 days the £300 will be returned to the fella and your account will be charged this amount, if you have a Credit card/Debit card linked to it they will charge to it, if you have a bank account they will debit your account.
Sorry mate but your £300 deposit will be going back to the chap :mad:
Never accept paypal for anything other than items your sending with proof of shipping/receipt.
When I sold my MK4 1.8T in November I took paypal as a deposit (£250) but I told him clearly to bring the whole amount in CASH and I would refund the £250 Paypal depsoit in front of him!.
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When I sold my MK4 1.8T in November I took paypal as a deposit (£250) but I told him clearly to bring the whole amount in CASH and I would refund the £250 Paypal depsoit in front of him!.
Good idea that!! Saves any problems all round. :happy2:
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I had a similar related experience recently. I put a £100 deposit on a car (private purchase) to put it on hold with purchase subject to an engineers inspection. Got a receipt for the deposit but the receipt didn't state that the sale was subject to satisfactory engineers report (just agreed verbally). Sure enough, the engineer inspection (which cost £250) found a number of things wrong - to the tune of £2k to £3k to repair!! When I explained the report to the seller and the fact that I wasn't going ahead with the purchase she absolutely lost it - saying that she had lost out on a sale, she had to take some time off work etc. In the end, I couldn't be ar5ed chasing the £100 deposit. The way I like to look at it is that the £350 it cost me saved me £2k to £3k down the line......
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Having read through the previous posts, normally a deposit is just that, sometimes you get it back sometimes you dont, but it is normally stated either way ie: a non refundable deposit.
If it was me i would bite the bullet return the £300 and be done with it, last thing i would want is waking up one morning and finding a dent or scratches over my car. He may/maynot know your address but if you google your name its easy to find, esp if you use facebook etc.....