MK5 Golf GTI
General => Random Chat => Topic started by: Dp_Ed30 on June 13, 2012, 12:55:23 am
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Need some advise guys.
Bit of background, today I get a phone call from my sister to say there are 9 men on our drive way banging on the door and windows and what have you done, was pretty confused and said I have no idea.
Driving home I have just been stopped by police and questioned on releation to a armed robbery that my car was involved in last night, around a hundred questions later a second un marked unit shows up and questions me further.
Next thing I'm being told to put my hands out and he is spraying a water type liquid on to my hands.
Next thing I'm being questioned to why I have gun shot residue on my hands, I was on the way home from the club were I shoot comp target rifle and have my rifles with me, this did not go down well with the officer
So anyways long story short after a hour and a half at the road side in handcuffs they inform me my number plates have been used in a armed robbery on a jewellery corriour and the met police will be in contact with me very soon to question me about my whereabouts last Night.
He also informed me the 9 men were from the met special task force.
I have multiply witnesses to my location and filled my car at the fuel station near my house at the aprox time of the Robery, but I am still concerned as to potential problems I may face.
Anybody have any advice, rely shaken up by this and not sure were I stand
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:surprised: not good buddy, im sure your be fine, happens alot today, you've got your witnesses, cctv of fueling your car etc, just some scum pissing your life about, your be just fine :drinking:
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my mate had this, the police stops never end, always checking what your doing.
He had to carry around documentation to say hes innocent :signLOL:
He got a personal plate in the end and it stopped :stupid:
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This can have detrimental effect for your future. It may effect wheather you can get credit it or not, possibly a job. Similar thing happened to friends brother when i was at school. He lost his job. He was a police officer. Theyre quite good at putting 2 and 2 together to get 5 potatoe. Take the fight to them and claim compensation. Take at least a week of work
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This can have detrimental effect for your future. It may effect wheather you can get credit it or not, possibly a job. Similar thing happened to friends brother when i was at school. He lost his job. He was a police officer. Theyre quite good at putting 2 and 2 together to get 5 potatoe. Take the fight to them and claim compensation. Take at least a week of work
.... :confused: How can that be if it is proven that the guy was completely innocent?
@ Dp_Ed30:
If innocent, then just put it down to an unlucky experience - You should have nothing to worry about.
I was heavily questioned by Police as a possible suspect in a nasty murder case (Bunny Girl Eve Stratford - My phone number was in her little black book). I was also questioned over the death of my own 4yo son who died in my arms - I have to say that the Police in my son's case were extremely sympathetic and it was merely a process that had to be done.
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This can have detrimental effect for your future. It may effect whether you can get credit it or not, possibly a job. Similar thing happened to friends brother when i was at school. He lost his job. He was a police officer. Theyre quite good at putting 2 and 2 together to get 5 potatoe. Take the fight to them and claim compensation. Take at least a week of work
How does this affect credit rating or potential employment?
As the OP is innoncent with multiple witnesses who can vouch for his whereabouts at the time of the crime, the OP shouldn't have anything to worry about (once the witnesses have contacted and the OP's story verified).
I dont agree with claiming compensation (for what exactly?) taking time off work? why?
As harrowing the experience may have been for the OP, ive not seen him complain about be mistreated, beat up or whatever by the police. They are just doing their job.
The police are dealing with an armed robbery so realisticy, they are looking for criminals who used weapons to commit a serious crime. You really expect them to approach suspects with kid gloves?
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Need some advise guys.
Bit of background, today I get a phone call from my sister to say there are 9 men on our drive way banging on the door and windows and what have you done, was pretty confused and said I have no idea.
Driving home I have just been stopped by police and questioned on releation to a armed robbery that my car was involved in last night, around a hundred questions later a second un marked unit shows up and questions me further.
Next thing I'm being told to put my hands out and he is spraying a water type liquid on to my hands.
Next thing I'm being questioned to why I have gun shot residue on my hands, I was on the way home from the club were I shoot comp target rifle and have my rifles with me, this did not go down well with the officer
So anyways long story short after a hour and a half at the road side in handcuffs they inform me my number plates have been used in a armed robbery on a jewellery corriour and the met police will be in contact with me very soon to question me about my whereabouts last Night.
He also informed me the 9 men were from the met special task force.
I have multiply witnesses to my location and filled my car at the fuel station near my house at the aprox time of the Robery, but I am still concerned as to potential problems I may face.
Anybody have any advice, rely shaken up by this and not sure were I stand
Change your car or get a private plate mate, either way the hassle stops!
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This can have detrimental effect for your future. It may effect whether you can get credit it or not, possibly a job. Similar thing happened to friends brother when i was at school. He lost his job. He was a police officer. Theyre quite good at putting 2 and 2 together to get 5 potatoe. Take the fight to them and claim compensation. Take at least a week of work
How does this affect credit rating or potential employment?
As the OP is innoncent with multiple witnesses who can vouch for his whereabouts at the time of the crime, the OP shouldn't have anything to worry about (once the witnesses have contacted and the OP's story verified).
I dont agree with claiming compensation (for what exactly?) taking time off work? why?
As harrowing the experience may have been for the OP, ive not seen him complain about be mistreated, beat up or whatever by the police. They are just doing their job.
The police are dealing with an armed robbery so realisticy, they are looking for criminals who used weapons to commit a serious crime. You really expect them to approach suspects with kid gloves?
.... :congrats: :congrats: :congrats: :congrats: I totally agree :happy2:
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Change your car or get a private plate mate, either way the hassle stops!
....How does having a private plate (like mine) help? [I'm not challenging your words but I'm ignorant of how that works... Or being really thick!]
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Change your car or get a private plate mate, either way the hassle stops!
....How does having a private plate (like mine) help? [I'm not challenging your words but I'm ignorant of how that works... Or being really thick!]
There will remain an intelligence report marker on the OP's reg number for quite some time, changing to a private reg or even a different age related plate means the police won't stop him all the time as they won't know it's the 'suspect' car...
I did exactly this to great effect after buying an RS turbo that went on to have the plates cloned :happy2:
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This can have detrimental effect for your future. It may effect whether you can get credit it or not, possibly a job. Similar thing happened to friends brother when i was at school. He lost his job. He was a police officer. Theyre quite good at putting 2 and 2 together to get 5 potatoe. Take the fight to them and claim compensation. Take at least a week of work
How does this affect credit rating or potential employment?
As the OP is innoncent with multiple witnesses who can vouch for his whereabouts at the time of the crime, the OP shouldn't have anything to worry about (once the witnesses have contacted and the OP's story verified).
I dont agree with claiming compensation (for what exactly?) taking time off work? why?
As harrowing the experience may have been for the OP, ive not seen him complain about be mistreated, beat up or whatever by the police. They are just doing their job.
The police are dealing with an armed robbery so realisticy, they are looking for criminals who used weapons to commit a serious crime. You really expect them to approach suspects with kid gloves?
OK, maybe compensation is not the right avenue to go. Always gets my goat up when I read incidents like this. My brother was harassed, verging on gang stalking, for 18 months by the local police many years ago just because of his choice in modified cars. Turning up at home and where he worked asking questions of his whereabouts in connection to local crimes and street racing, when clearly he was not connected to any criminal activity. To say I have a distrust of the police is an understatement. I was nearly arrested last Friday by The City Of London police because I refused to give my details when they were called on suspicion of a burgalar on premisies after my work colleague was let in by another colleague. The remote CCTV operator called the police. 20 officers, two tazer armed, and two police dogs. The police dogs were let loose in the building, thankfully I was in the office with the door shut, and alerted the handler to where I was by rabidly barking, after which the handler said if I had the door open "I MAY have been bitten". I think "I MAY have been mauled to death" I was escorted down to identify my colleague, who had heard the comotion and gone downstairs earlier. We were then surrounded by said 20 coppers, tazer in hand readied, and interrogated. After we proved we were meant to be there, they were then insistent on taking all of our details anyway, or we would be arrested....[[[[and noooo Im not going to claim coompensation.]]
What the OP needs to do is throughly check he is not on any database, with regards to criminal background checks that may be made in the future. He would have been detained and had his details taken. Alot of companies ask for criminal background for job applications; the financial services lending world is leaning this way and could affect whether the OP can get a passport if he ends up on a criminal database of any sort. Sorry, I didnt mean to chuck the frighteners out there but unfortunately these things happen.
I hope the OP gets this sorted as soon as possible and he can move on :drinking:
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Change your car or get a private plate mate, either way the hassle stops!
....How does having a private plate (like mine) help? [I'm not challenging your words but I'm ignorant of how that works... Or being really thick!]
There will remain an intelligence report marker on the OP's reg number for quite some time, changing to a private reg or even a different age related plate means the police won't stop him all the time as they won't know it's the 'suspect' car...
I did exactly this to great effect after buying an RS turbo that went on to have the plates cloned :happy2:
....Ah, thanks for explaining that :happy2:
So, what should have been clarified is to get a private plate AFTER the cloning crime event.
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OK, maybe compensation is not the right avenue to go. Always gets my goat up when I read incidents like this. My brother was harassed, verging on gang stalking, for 18 months by the local police many years ago just because of his choice in modified cars. Turning up at home and where he worked asking questions of his whereabouts in connection to local crimes and street racing, when clearly he was not connected to any criminal activity.
....Obviously not clearly enough. It would seem he chose to run the sort of car which usually quite rightly attracts Police attention - If you can't stand the heat, don't go in the kitchen.
To say I have a distrust of the police is an understatement. I was nearly arrested last Friday by The City Of London police because I refused to give my details when they were called on suspicion of a burgalar on premisies after my work colleague was let in by another colleague. The remote CCTV operator called the police. 20 officers, two tazer armed, and two police dogs. The police dogs were let loose in the building, thankfully I was in the office with the door shut, and alerted the handler to where I was by rabidly barking, after which the handler said if I had the door open "I MAY have been bitten". I think "I MAY have been mauled to death" I was escorted down to identify my colleague, who had heard the comotion and gone downstairs earlier. We were then surrounded by said 20 coppers, tazer in hand readied, and interrogated. After we proved we were meant to be there, they were then insistent on taking all of our details anyway, or we would be arrested....[[[[and noooo Im not going to claim coompensation.]]
....Why on earth did you refuse to give your details when the Police were trying to do their job? :stupid: Sorry, but I have no sympathy for your attitude in this matter. If you give Police 'attitude' you will invariably get what you deserve.
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OP - that's damned unlucky :sad1:
hope you get it all sorted :happy2:
To say I have a distrust of the police is an understatement. I was nearly arrested last Friday by The City Of London police because I refused to give my details when they were called on suspicion of a burgalar on premisies after my work colleague was let in by another colleague. The remote CCTV operator called the police. 20 officers, two tazer armed, and two police dogs. The police dogs were let loose in the building, thankfully I was in the office with the door shut, and alerted the handler to where I was by rabidly barking, after which the handler said if I had the door open "I MAY have been bitten". I think "I MAY have been mauled to death" I was escorted down to identify my colleague, who had heard the comotion and gone downstairs earlier. We were then surrounded by said 20 coppers, tazer in hand readied, and interrogated. After we proved we were meant to be there, they were then insistent on taking all of our details anyway, or we would be arrested....[[[[and noooo Im not going to claim coompensation.]]
....Why on earth did you refuse to give your details when the Police were trying to do their job? :stupid: Sorry, but I have no sympathy for your attitude in this matter. If you give Police 'attitude' you will invariably get what you deserve.
i'm with Horatio on this one - if he's done nothing wrong he is not obliged to give the Police his details. would you give your details to a random person just because they asked for them? in essence it's no different.
the Police are not a law unto themselves. some officers seem to think they are. if they've clearly ascertained that he was meant to be on the premises then they have no right to ask for his details. doing something as stupid as letting a police dog loose in a place of work where innocent people are working is wholly unacceptable as well
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To say I have a distrust of the police is an understatement.
....Why on earth did you refuse to give your details when the Police were trying to do their job? :stupid: Sorry, but I have no sympathy for your attitude in this matter. If you give Police 'attitude' you will invariably get what you deserve.
i'm with Horatio on this one - if he's done nothing wrong he is not obliged to give the Police his details. would you give your details to a random person just because they asked for them? in essence it's no different.
....It wasn't a random person, it was (as we are told) a Policeman and a Policeman is an officer and representative of the law. So, I would always willingly give my details to a Policeman and especially if I was innocent of what was being investigated. If I wasn't innocent I would give my details and then insist on legal representation to take it any further.
Horatio has already stated that he has a bad attitude and prejudice towards the Police, and even if he has had bad experiences he shows a lack of broadmindedness to then tar them all with the same brush. You may as well say that just because you have been badly cut up by a GTI driver, that all GTI drivers are like that. However, in the case of poorly driven chavvily modified cars the prejudice is at least initially justified. You don't have to be a Policeman to recognise someone's driving behaviour.
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a Police officer has to have a good reason to pull you over/detain you/question you. it's called human rights. he is lawfully in his place of work. therefore a representative of the law has no business infringing on his rights or his privacy.
me personally i think it's less trouble just to give your details over to the Police. however i support Horatio's right to refuse, irrespective of what i would do myself.
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a Police officer has to have a good reason to pull you over/detain you/question you. it's called human rights.
me personally i think it's less trouble just to give your details over to the Police. however i support Horatio's right to refuse, irrespective of what i would do myself.
....I mostly agree but I think that someone is stupid to refuse to give their details to a Police officer unless they can show justification beyond any doubt.
In this kind of context, bollox to human rights!! Hiding behind current OTT 'human rights' in such cases is interfering with the ability of fair justice being achieved. It's just as bad as lumping shouting at someone in with physical abuse. Human rights legislation has been taken so far that it has become a derivative of political correctness - And absolute bollox!
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Change your car or get a private plate mate, either way the hassle stops!
....How does having a private plate (like mine) help? [I'm not challenging your words but I'm ignorant of how that works... Or being really thick!]
Robin yours is a "Personalised" plate mate, "Private" plates are non date/year identifying :happy2:
If the reg is no longer associated with your car you wont be getting pulled as that will not be the car/reg they are looking for :happy2:
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i'm with Horatio on this one - if he's done nothing wrong he is not obliged to give the Police his details. would you give your details to a random person just because they asked for them? in essence it's no different.
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....It wasn't a random person, it was (as we are told) a Policeman and a Policeman is an officer and representative of the law. So, I would always willingly give my details to a Policeman and especially if I was innocent of what was being investigated. If I wasn't innocent I would give my details and then insist on legal representation to take it any further.
Horatio has already stated that he has a bad attitude and prejudice towards the Police, and even if he has had bad experiences he shows a lack of broadmindedness to then tar them all with the same brush. You may as well say that just because you have been badly cut up by a GTI driver, that all GTI drivers are like that. However, in the case of poorly driven chavvily modified cars the prejudice is at least initially justified. You don't have to be a Policeman to recognise someone's driving behaviour.
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The Police should only be asking details from people who are suspected of doing something wrong!, they have absolutely no right to be asking an honest person doing his job for their details!, what's next police taking everyones finger prints and DNA "Just in Case", they may as well fit a tracker to my car and install CCTV INSIDE my home "Just in case", I myself would point blank refuse too unless I had done something wrong (e.g alleged traffic offense)
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a Police officer has to have a good reason to pull you over/detain you/question you. it's called human rights.
me personally i think it's less trouble just to give your details over to the Police. however i support Horatio's right to refuse, irrespective of what i would do myself.
....I mostly agree but I think that someone is stupid to refuse to give their details to a Police officer unless they can show justification beyond any doubt.
Does that not also make the copper stupid for asking for his details without cause?
In this kind of context, bollox to human rights!! Hiding behind current OTT 'human rights' in such cases is interfering with the ability of fair justice being achieved. It's just as bad as lumping shouting at someone in with physical abuse. Human rights legislation has been taken so far that it has become a derivative of political correctness - And absolute bollox!
Human rights is only there to protect the unfortunate, sad to say others use it to their advantage (Like that hook handed terrorist)
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You mean Captain Hook? Yep he was always terrorising neverland.
As for the police, it always depend on their attitude but TBH I've not had any major issues with them. I once got pulled over after he thought I left the petrol station too quickly. He probably thought I spotted him and tried to drive away. Cus big ass police van following a little fiesta through uni campus. Got pulled at the top of the road I lived on. Wanted me to produce my documents at the local station. When I asked whether he could follow me home, he happily obliged and I could show him my docs without having to faff around with producers.
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^ :laugh:
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You mean Captain Hook? Yep he was always terrorising neverland.
As for the police, it always depend on their attitude but TBH I've not had any major issues with them. I once got pulled over after he thought I left the petrol station too quickly. He probably thought I spotted him and tried to drive away. Cus big ass police van following a little fiesta through uni campus. Got pulled at the top of the road I lived on. Wanted me to produce my documents at the local station. When I asked whether he could follow me home, he happily obliged and I could show him my docs without having to faff around with producers.
Err no, Peter pan sorted him out already, was referring to Abu Hamza AKA Mr Jihad
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Update.
Just returned from the police station after being dragged out of bed at 6 am but the same 9 coppers.
Long and short of it I'm bailed until the 11th while they investigate.
Police have no evidence apart from a 3 line phone report, the dickhead was meant to come in to give a statement today but didn't show.
Turns out he claims to have been standing on the road whe I pulled up and my passengers got out and robbed him for his £50k Rolex and £50k chain :stupid:
Anyway f*ck leaving this in the hands of the local bacon, I am going mac Taylor on the situation to collect as much evidence as I can. Already have a bank statement showing my filling my car with tecos finest 5 mins before the claimed robbery and have been promised some CCTV evidence from the local carpet shop on me heading home 2 mins after.
Fingers crossed
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It's wrong that something that has nothing to do with you can cause such a problem with your life :fighting: but I suppose there just doing there job
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i feel for the OP and hope he keeps faith in the system and this will all be sorted out shortly.
The police are just doing their jobs and lets be honest... if the crime had been commited against us or our loved ones, we'd hope the police would leave no stone unturned in catching the perps..
i think the police are sometimes unjustly slagged off..
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i feel for the OP and hope he keeps faith in the system and this will all be sorted out shortly.
The police are just doing their jobs and lets be honest... if the crime had been commited against us or our loved ones, we'd hope the police would leave no stone unturned in catching the perps..
i think the police are sometimes unjustly slagged off..
No the police are a bunch of arseholes, I was assaulted in my own home this morning and treated like a criminal.
I am going to sue the police to the fully extent of the law,
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If they have treated you like sh*t this morning when coming into your house that's not on :confused:
Police HAVE to be able to justify there actions, innocent until proven guilty, if they cannot justify they way they treated you this morning then they have some explaining to do, I work on the door at weekends and we have to be able to justify our actions, same way the police do, if you were thought of as a threat or you did show signs of aggression then certain actions are needed to be taken...BUT it has to able to be justified, If I can't justify dragging someone out by there head then I will loose my door badge, police often use there powers in a way they shouldn't....and that's why there disliked
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This can have detrimental effect for your future. It may effect wheather you can get credit it or not, possibly a job. Similar thing happened to friends brother when i was at school. He lost his job. He was a police officer. Theyre quite good at putting 2 and 2 together to get 5 potatoe. Take the fight to them and claim compensation. Take at least a week of work
IT WILL NOT EFFECT YOUR CREDIT AND NEITHER WILL IT EFFECT YOUR JOB PROSPECTS !
If you are innocent then it will have no effect. An armed job will be investigated by the best the police staff they have.
Don't worry...easier said than done though
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a Police officer has to have a good reason to pull you over/detain you/question you. it's called human rights. he is lawfully in his place of work. therefore a representative of the law has no business infringing on his rights or his privacy.
me personally i think it's less trouble just to give your details over to the Police. however i support Horatio's right to refuse, irrespective of what i would do myself.
Not correct and to refuse details only antagonises someone who is only doing what they get paid to do and in most cases not giving details to a police officer could get you arrested..............look it up
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i feel for the OP and hope he keeps faith in the system and this will all be sorted out shortly.
The police are just doing their jobs and lets be honest... if the crime had been commited against us or our loved ones, we'd hope the police would leave no stone unturned in catching the perps..
i think the police are sometimes unjustly slagged off..
No the police are a bunch of arseholes, I was assaulted in my own home this morning and treated like a criminal.
I am going to sue the police to the fully extent of the law,
Sue ?
Your view of the matter today having just been arrested , not an uncommon feeling.
If you have been assaulted you will have injuries ?
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I have had to have my head stitched up this mornin after the animal smashed my head in to the wall at my house.
Golf r coming so courtesy of the London met. f*ckers
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It's not often they pay out, I would not hold out for a Golf R, maybe a written apology might be the best you can aim for.
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I have had to have my head stitched up this mornin after the animal smashed my head in to the wall at my house.
Golf r coming so courtesy of the London met. f*ckers
go get 'em i say
a Police officer has to have a good reason to pull you over/detain you/question you. it's called human rights. he is lawfully in his place of work. therefore a representative of the law has no business infringing on his rights or his privacy.
me personally i think it's less trouble just to give your details over to the Police. however i support Horatio's right to refuse, irrespective of what i would do myself.
Not correct and to refuse details only antagonises someone who is only doing what they get paid to do and in most cases not giving details to a police officer could get you arrested..............look it up
i'm gonna double check this with a couple of lawyer friends of mine. it has always been my understanding that the police have to have reasonable grounds to believe you've broken the law before you're obliged to give them your details if you were just walking down the street or, as Horatio was, in his place of work minding his own business.
obviously if you're behind the wheel of a car and they want to verify you have a driving license/you're insured etc. that's different.
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Google bars for change, these dirty animals get away withar to much
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I have had to have my head stitched up this mornin after the animal smashed my head in to the wall at my house.
....Are you saying that a Policeman smashed your head against the wall at your own house? :surprised: Why is it that I am finding what you say very difficult to believe? Or were you putting up physical resistance to their requests and hence they were obliged to get physical with you?
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i'm gonna double check this with a couple of lawyer friends of mine. it has always been my understanding that the police have to have reasonable grounds to believe you've broken the law before you're obliged to give them your details if you were just walking down the street or, as Horatio was, in his place of work minding his own business.
obviously if you're behind the wheel of a car and they want to verify you have a driving license/you're insured etc. that's different.
....The Police are unlikely to waste time challenging you for anything unless they are given reason to suspect you may have broken the law in some way. So if they go as far as stopping you, you are consequently under suspicion and therefore obliged to cooperate and give details if asked.
If you are innocent and, importantly, don't give them attitude you will come to no harm - Why should you?
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I have had to have my head stitched up this mornin after the animal smashed my head in to the wall at my house.
....Are you saying that a Policeman smashed your head against the wall at your own house? :surprised: Why is it that I am finding what you say very difficult to believe? Or were you putting up physical resistance to their requests and hence they were obliged to get physical with you?
Indeed my thoughts too. When you were presented to the Custody Sergeant following your detention did you point out the injury to them ? Was it recorded at the time of your detention as you would have been asked if you were fit and well etc etc ?
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Update.
Just returned from the police station after being dragged out of bed at 6 am but the same 9 coppers.
Long and short of it I'm bailed until the 11th while they investigate.
Police have no evidence apart from a 3 line phone report, the dickhead was meant to come in to give a statement today but didn't show.
Turns out he claims to have been standing on the road whe I pulled up and my passengers got out and robbed him for his £50k Rolex and £50k chain :stupid:
Anyway f*ck leaving this in the hands of the local bacon, I am going mac Taylor on the situation to collect as much evidence as I can. Already have a bank statement showing my filling my car with tecos finest 5 mins before the claimed robbery and have been promised some CCTV evidence from the local carpet shop on me heading home 2 mins after.
Fingers crossed
So apparently they have arrested you with no evidence of an offence. No officer would arrest you without a statement from the victim , that is his permission. without it you would not be arrested after the event. A £50k Rolex and a £50k chain theft and they didn't arrest you when you were stopped in your car ? A bit far fetched i think . Good story though :happy2:
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i'm gonna double check this with a couple of lawyer friends of mine. it has always been my understanding that the police have to have reasonable grounds to believe you've broken the law before you're obliged to give them your details if you were just walking down the street or, as Horatio was, in his place of work minding his own business.
obviously if you're behind the wheel of a car and they want to verify you have a driving license/you're insured etc. that's different.
....The Police are unlikely to waste time challenging you for anything unless they are given reason to suspect you may have broken the law in some way. So if they go as far as stopping you, you are consequently under suspicion and therefore obliged to cooperate and give details if asked.
If you are innocent and, importantly, don't give them attitude you will come to no harm - Why should you?
Again, using Horatio's example - he was demanded for his details after they'd ascertained he was lawfully going about his business (or so his wordin implies). Giving your details is the easy option, and the option i'd be likely to take - BUT it is your right to refuse
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Local carpet shop CCTV covering the street and you driving your car down it ?? Why does the carpet shop cover the street with its CCTV ? They would also not pass it to you as they would be in breach of Data Protection Act and would be punishable by many thousands of pounds fine .
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i'm gonna double check this with a couple of lawyer friends of mine. it has always been my understanding that the police have to have reasonable grounds to believe you've broken the law before you're obliged to give them your details if you were just walking down the street or, as Horatio was, in his place of work minding his own business.
obviously if you're behind the wheel of a car and they want to verify you have a driving license/you're insured etc. that's different.
....The Police are unlikely to waste time challenging you for anything unless they are given reason to suspect you may have broken the law in some way. So if they go as far as stopping you, you are consequently under suspicion and therefore obliged to cooperate and give details if asked.
If you are innocent and, importantly, don't give them attitude you will come to no harm - Why should you?
Again, using Horatio's example - he was demanded for his details after they'd ascertained he was lawfully going about his business (or so his wordin implies). Giving your details is the easy option, and the option i'd be likely to take - BUT it is your right to refuse
It is not your right to refuse. They are investigating a crime and need to investigate it. An officer would need to know the persons name in the building to confirm that they are entitled to be on the premises and hence has the necessary requirement .
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Just because an officer of the law (Policeman) asks for and takes note of your details it doesn't automatically mean that you are guilty of a crime!
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Just because an officer of the law (Policeman) asks for and takes note of your details it doesn't automatically mean that you are guilty of a crime!
Well lets put it this way....
If a copper asks me for my details I'll give them...rather that than them locking me up under belief that I'm somone else
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i'm gonna double check this with a couple of lawyer friends of mine. it has always been my understanding that the police have to have reasonable grounds to believe you've broken the law before you're obliged to give them your details if you were just walking down the street or, as Horatio was, in his place of work minding his own business.
obviously if you're behind the wheel of a car and they want to verify you have a driving license/you're insured etc. that's different.
....The Police are unlikely to waste time challenging you for anything unless they are given reason to suspect you may have broken the law in some way. So if they go as far as stopping you, you are consequently under suspicion and therefore obliged to cooperate and give details if asked.
If you are innocent and, importantly, don't give them attitude you will come to no harm - Why should you?
Again, using Horatio's example - he was demanded for his details after they'd ascertained he was lawfully going about his business (or so his wordin implies). Giving your details is the easy option, and the option i'd be likely to take - BUT it is your right to refuse
It is not your right to refuse. They are investigating a crime and need to investigate it. An officer would need to know the persons name in the building to confirm that they are entitled to be on the premises and hence has the necessary requirement .
Horatio's story makes it quite clear that no crime was being committed. like i said, i've asked a couple of lawyers about this and they're looking into the legalities of it because i'm not happy just taking your word for it, irrespective of what you do for a living. i've nothing further to add.
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i'm gonna double check this with a couple of lawyer friends of mine. it has always been my understanding that the police have to have reasonable grounds to believe you've broken the law before you're obliged to give them your details if you were just walking down the street or, as Horatio was, in his place of work minding his own business.
obviously if you're behind the wheel of a car and they want to verify you have a driving license/you're insured etc. that's different.
....The Police are unlikely to waste time challenging you for anything unless they are given reason to suspect you may have broken the law in some way. So if they go as far as stopping you, you are consequently under suspicion and therefore obliged to cooperate and give details if asked.
If you are innocent and, importantly, don't give them attitude you will come to no harm - Why should you?
Again, using Horatio's example - he was demanded for his details after they'd ascertained he was lawfully going about his business (or so his wordin implies). Giving your details is the easy option, and the option i'd be likely to take - BUT it is your right to refuse
It is not your right to refuse. They are investigating a crime and need to investigate it. An officer would need to know the persons name in the building to confirm that they are entitled to be on the premises and hence has the necessary requirement .
Horatio's story makes it quite clear that no crime was being committed. like i said, i've asked a couple of lawyers about this and they're looking into the legalities of it because i'm not happy just taking your word for it, irrespective of what you do for a living. i've nothing further to add.
One of my mates is a copper (mentioned him before and the stuff they get away with :grin:), he said they need to have grounds or suspicion to request your details, your entirely within your rights to refuse to provide details if you have done nothing wrong, he also added (a caveat) and said it may mean a trip to police station where they will happily enjoy wasting your time due to your refusal to provide details. :signLOL:
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Horatio's story makes it quite clear that no crime was being committed. like i said, i've asked a couple of lawyers about this and they're looking into the legalities of it because i'm not happy just taking your word for it, irrespective of what you do for a living. i've nothing further to add.
....In my opinion, Horatio's story lacks credibility and from other statements he has posted it is clear that he is prejudiced against the Police generally and so is highly unlikely to cooperate in allowing them to do their rightful job of investigation so that information might be later presented before a court sat in judgement of the matter.
It makes no difference whether Horatio has admitted he has committed a crime or claims his innocence (that is something which is yet to be proved) - By refusing to give his details he in effect is interfering with the course of justice and delaying the job of rightful Police investigation.
Whether you are innocent or guilty it is nothing short of stubborn stupidity to give attitude to someone in authority who is challenging or merely questioning you.
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I agree with Robin, how could they have checked he was allowed to be there without getting his details from him.
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I maybe many things Robin but im not a lyer and neither myself or my family have ever been associated with criminals or criminal behaviour. Hope that clears everything up. With regards to Fridays encounter, I merely asked a question "why do i need to provide my details when quite clearly the cctv operator was mistaken?" He couldnt answer. His collegue sympathised with me. And that was that. I think a mod needs to lock this thread before more frivalous accusations are made.
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Horatio's story makes it quite clear that no crime was being committed. like i said, i've asked a couple of lawyers about this and they're looking into the legalities of it because i'm not happy just taking your word for it, irrespective of what you do for a living. i've nothing further to add.
Whether you are innocent or guilty it is nothing short of stubborn stupidity to give attitude to someone in authority who is challenging or merely questioning you.
If I was out walking my dog and a copper asked for my details I would quite politely tell him thanks but no thanks and continue walking my dog, if your doing nothing wrong why should you be delayed/questioned by them?, I am not (personally) prejudiced against the police, its a tough job (well actually it's not according to my mate Phil, except for the paperwork and dealing with scrotes its (his words) a piece of pi55 :happy2:). If I was in my car driving along abiding by the law I would probably not get stopped but If I did what excuse would be given? "I don't like your face" "I am jealous of your car" "You were driving erratically" "You pulled away from the junction quickly" etc etc, I would be inclined to say you already have my details on ANPR or PNC. When you get Told in a stern voice to "Hand over your car Keys" you do think "Hang on a minute chap, pleasantries dont cost anything!", I have long since adapted the mimic reply, stern voice gets a stern reply, nicely worded sensible question (Not "Is this your car as you pull up on your own drive" gets a sensible and nice reply
We used to get hassled a lot when we were younger (17-21) mentioned previously until letter from solicitor stopped that nonsense, but having a couple of mates still in the force and 2 others now out of the force you do get to hear the other side of the big boys club :happy2:
I remember from those days there were 2 local coppers who were decent blokes, proper old school (Clip round the ear as a kid etc) and treated you as you had behaved, but then there were the other 6 who were complete tossers no matter if you had not done anything (I do not have a criminal record BTW and was a decent kid) they would just harass you to keep themselves busy :fighting:
For the majority it's a serious job done within the law but there are plenty in there who use it to their advantage (usually those who were bullied at school and now on a power trip), it is a shame that's what people remember.
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I maybe many things Robin but im not a lyer and neither myself or my family have ever been associated with criminals or criminal behaviour. Hope that clears everything up. With regards to Fridays encounter, I merely asked a question "why do i need to provide my details when quite clearly the cctv operator was mistaken?" He couldnt answer. His collegue sympathised with me. And that was that. I think a mod needs to lock this thread before more frivalous accusations are made.
....You seem to have calmed down since your previous outbursts.
However, I suggest that in accordance with your previous statements, you are prejudiced against the Police and derive some enjoyment from interfering with the course of their enquiries.
I'm afraid that regardless of legal technicalities I can see no justification whatsoever for you or anyone else to refuse to give their details when asked by authority in such contexts.
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I maybe many things Robin but im not a lyer and neither myself or my family have ever been associated with criminals or criminal behaviour. Hope that clears everything up. With regards to Fridays encounter, I merely asked a question "why do i need to provide my details when quite clearly the cctv operator was mistaken?" He couldnt answer. His collegue sympathised with me. And that was that. I think a mod needs to lock this thread before more frivalous accusations are made.
....You seem to have calmed down since your previous outbursts.
However, I suggest that in accordance with your previous statements, you are prejudiced against the Police and derive some enjoyment from interfering with the course of their enquiries.
I'm afraid that regardless of legal technicalities I can see no justification whatsoever for you or anyone else to refuse to give their details when asked by authority in such contexts.
Well, I dont know what else to say but...LOL
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So apparently they have arrested you with no evidence of an offence. No officer would arrest you without a statement from the victim , that is his permission. without it you would not be arrested after the event. A £50k Rolex and a £50k chain theft and they didn't arrest you when you were stopped in your car ? A bit far fetched i think . Good story though :happy2:
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the officer who stopped me last night was not from the MET police, i was told today that they should have arested me.
They have a report from the "victim" but not a official statement, he was meant to come in at 2pm today but failed and have re apointed for sunday.
in terms of the assault, I went for my mobile to call for a solicitor, the officer then put his hands on me slamming me against the wall, the other then took my phone.
Proceedure has not been followed at all, another major cock up is the fact that any violent crime will result in a instant review on my FAC with all wepons being taken in to police custody untill the situation has been review, as i type now all 13 are locked up in my safe at my home.
second is the fact that 2 days have passed and no evidence has been colected ( this could have been cleared up by the cctv footage from the 9 cams around the scene of the crime.
i will be doing as much csi work as i can this week and collecting as much evidence as posible inc footage from the carpet shop car park that overlooks the main road.
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I think a mod needs to lock this thread before more frivalous accusations are made.
....Why? We are only discussing and sharing our opinions. It's not personal if we strongly disagree about a subject - At least, it's not personal on my part. :smiley:
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ultimately RR my point is that if you've done nothing wrong you shouldn't have to justify yourself just because a police officer doesn't like you for whatever reason. just because they're in a position of power doesn't mean they can do what they like.
i agree that you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar, but in this case vinegar is a justified (though albeit irrational) response.
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What's a Lyer?
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^ I see 0_o what you did there :grin:
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I think a mod needs to lock this thread before more frivalous accusations are made.
....Why? We are only discussing and sharing our opinions. It's not personal if we strongly disagree about a subject - At least, it's not personal on my part. :smiley:
OK :grin:
So, where do you think the policemans authority is derived from?
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ultimately RR my point is that if you've done nothing wrong you shouldn't have to justify yourself just because a police officer doesn't like you for whatever reason. just because they're in a position of power doesn't mean they can do what they like.
....I agree wholeheartedly that the Police should never abuse their power and there are a number of structures in place to prevent that and to bring any abuses to account.
Regarding the person being challenged/questioned/investigated, all a Policeman (or Policewoman) is doing is trying to establish how there may have been any infringements of the laws he/she is charged to uphold and, importantly, to record the identities of all parties involved or, until established otherwise later, who may have been involved, even as just a witness.
Again, I see no justification whatsoever for anyone witholding their details and it is naturally almost guaranteed to promote a negative reaction if witheld - Quite rightly, in my opinion.
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If you've got nothing to hide, why try...
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So, where do you think the policemans authority is derived from?
....Derived from laws which are determined by state government. Police may in part serve to the benefit of common people, and indeed laws are generically designed in an attempt to serve people's best interests, but the Police are not servants of the populus as is popularly believed. The authority is derived from the State. Hence Police vs People in civil riots etc. They may be further backed up by military services and specialist units.
The democratic process (in the UK) determines what is written as law.
[I am away in the car (testing UNIbraces) for a couple of days so can't respond further yet] :happy2:
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If you've got nothing to hide, why try...
....Exactly!! It's really that simple. However, if you have a bad attitude towards the Police it's an opportunity to feel you are scoring points against them - Though a somewhat futile and pathetic opportunity.
If you disagree with a law it's pointless taking it out on those who do the job of upholding the law. In my many decades of roaming this planet I have occasionally broken the law and done so knowingly, and I also have had friends who are known criminals, but I still have a great respect for the Police and recognise all the many good things they do. So I always cooperate, particularly when a suspect in a very nasty murder investigation (Eve Stratford).
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If you've got nothing to hide, why try...
....Exactly!! It's really that simple. However, if you have a bad attitude towards the Police it's an opportunity to feel you are scoring points against them - Though a somewhat futile and pathetic opportunity.
If you disagree with a law it's pointless taking it out on those who do the job of upholding the law. In my many decades of roaming this planet I have occasionally broken the law and done so knowingly, and I also have had friends who are known criminals, but I still have a great respect for the Police and recognise all the many good things they do. So I always cooperate, particularly when a suspect in a very nasty murder investigation (Eve Stratford).
yes if you've got nothing to hide then i agree it shouldn't be a problem
but the flip side of the coin is if you've done nothing wrong the police shouldn't be bothering you
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These threads always make me laugh. :rolleye:
When someone posts a thread up about little runts breaking into our homes, scaring our families while taking the keys to the car, we get 5 pages of thats terrible but the police wont do anything pal there too busy pulling us for our illegal plates. :indifferent:
I wholeheartedly agree with Robin's assessment of what is going on in this thread. :congrats:
If you've got nothing to hide, why try...
....Exactly!! It's really that simple. However, if you have a bad attitude towards the Police it's an opportunity to feel you are scoring points against them - Though a somewhat futile and pathetic opportunity.
If you disagree with a law it's pointless taking it out on those who do the job of upholding the law. In my many decades of roaming this planet I have occasionally broken the law and done so knowingly, and I also have had friends who are known criminals, but I still have a great respect for the Police and recognise all the many good things they do. So I always cooperate, particularly when a suspect in a very nasty murder investigation (Eve Stratford).
yes if you've got nothing to hide then i agree it shouldn't be a problem
but the flip side of the coin is if you've done nothing wrong the police shouldn't be bothering you
I know you do long hours in A&E but have you not mixed with modern society lately. How are the police going to distinguish between criminals and humans. The criminals don't wear a hat saying i am a criminal or run round with a bag saying SWAG on it.
It is unfortunate and uncomfortable for those who get caught up with crime prevention but for me it is a small price to pay if it means the police can possibly catch some of the scum who live within our society.
And as for DP_ED30 i can imagine being shocked and slightly bewildered by the events, but in my opinion your attitude to this event stinks. Why would you need to go diving for your phone as you say, if you know it is all just a mistake, then why not just relax and let the process run it's course.
And as for those in this thread who say i would not assist the police by giving them my details. Then as far as i am concerned you have far to high an opinion of yourself. Do you really think you are to important to be bothered by our Police force. Tut tut tut. :popcornsoda:
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Well put Top Cat.
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TC for PM. :notworthy: :congrats:
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If you've got nothing to hide, why try...
....Exactly!! It's really that simple. However, if you have a bad attitude towards the Police it's an opportunity to feel you are scoring points against them - Though a somewhat futile and pathetic opportunity.
If you disagree with a law it's pointless taking it out on those who do the job of upholding the law. In my many decades of roaming this planet I have occasionally broken the law and done so knowingly, and I also have had friends who are known criminals, but I still have a great respect for the Police and recognise all the many good things they do. So I always cooperate, particularly when a suspect in a very nasty murder investigation (Eve Stratford).
yes if you've got nothing to hide then i agree it shouldn't be a problem
but the flip side of the coin is if you've done nothing wrong the police shouldn't be bothering you
I know you do long hours in A&E but have you not mixed with modern society lately. How are the police going to distinguish between criminals and humans. The criminals don't wear a hat saying i am a criminal or run round with a bag saying SWAG on it.
It is unfortunate and uncomfortable for those who get caught up with crime prevention but for me it is a small price to pay if it means the police can possibly catch some of the scum who live within our society.
And as for DP_ED30 i can imagine being shocked and slightly bewildered by the events, but in my opinion your attitude to this event stinks. Why would you need to go diving for your phone as you say, if you know it is all just a mistake, then why not just relax and let the process run it's course.
And as for those in this thread who say i would not assist the police by giving them my details. Then as far as i am concerned you have far to high an opinion of yourself. Do you really think you are to important to be bothered by our Police force. Tut tut tut. :popcornsoda:
don't work in A&E anymore lol. this boils down to the circumstances in Horatio's story where it was clearly demonstrable he was doing nothing wrong, and was still asked for his details. i respect his right not to give them.
as i've said multiple times, it's easier to hand your details over if you've got nothing to hide - and this would be the course of action i would take. but we'll have to agree to disagree on supporting people's rights to refuse their details if they've done nothing wrong.
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Surely it's better to be co-operative with the police, making the whole thing quicker to resolve, well this is always the approach I've had with them...
It's always the one on police, camera, action, kicking off that head of to the nick... :drinking:
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Surely it's better to be co-operative with the police, making the whole thing quicker to resolve, well this is always the approach I've had with them...
It's always the one on police, camera, action, kicking off that head of to the nick... :drinking:
i don't disagree with you - and i never suggested being rude to a police officer.
but if you were in your place of work, and your security guard has acknowledged you're there lawfully why should you have to give your details over? if you want to because it's easier that's fine. if you refuse because you've done nothing wrong i don't see anything the matter with that either personally.
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TC for PM. :notworthy: :congrats:
or Chief Inspector of Constabulary to replace the **** they have installed called Tom Winsor.
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If you've got nothing to hide, why try...
....Exactly!! It's really that simple. However, if you have a bad attitude towards the Police it's an opportunity to feel you are scoring points against them - Though a somewhat futile and pathetic opportunity.
If you disagree with a law it's pointless taking it out on those who do the job of upholding the law. In my many decades of roaming this planet I have occasionally broken the law and done so knowingly, and I also have had friends who are known criminals, but I still have a great respect for the Police and recognise all the many good things they do. So I always cooperate, particularly when a suspect in a very nasty murder investigation (Eve Stratford).
yes if you've got nothing to hide then i agree it shouldn't be a problem
but the flip side of the coin is if you've done nothing wrong the police shouldn't be bothering you
The thing is, how do we know that you've done nothing wrong until we speak to you? Most people I deal with day to day lie through their teeth to me. How do I know you're any different? If I've stopped you then I'm investigating something and if I require your details, you have two options and one of them involves a trip to custody.
It won't effect 90% of people so shouldn't be a problem, unless you regularly find yourself in the wrong place at the wrong time .....
If you're driving a car then its a different story :D and know we can't just get it from ANPR etc etc.
Sent from my HTC Desire HD With Beats Audio using Tapatalk 2
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Surely it's better to be co-operative with the police, making the whole thing quicker to resolve, well this is always the approach I've had with them...
It's always the one on police, camera, action, kicking off that head of to the nick... :drinking:
i don't disagree with you - and i never suggested being rude to a police officer.
but if you were in your place of work, and your security guard has acknowledged you're there lawfully why should you have to give your details over? if you want to because it's easier that's fine. if you refuse because you've done nothing wrong i don't see anything the matter with that either personally.
Becasue every incident attended by Officers is recorded on a computer and if the report is "burglary" or "suspects on premises" would you expect the officer to write up an accurate report with the name of the people found on the premises that was alegedly being burgled ? If a subsequent enquiry a few days later was made into the incident , say if a computer was found to be stolen the further investigation would look into the previous incident to perhaps find a connection to the theft of the computer. Hence the need to have all the details of the initial incident..... this is caused by too many members of the public wanting to criticise the police..................so in short the public have caused this to happen and should try to understand.