MK5 Golf GTI
General => Product Reviews => Topic started by: TT-Turbo on June 28, 2012, 02:50:48 pm
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My first review on here so please be kind with your words :scared:
Plasma Direct Ignition coils by Okada Projects.
Why?
There is quite a few reasons for getting upgraded coils and some reasons might be more applicable to some than others. To start off with it may help to understand what they do and why they are different from normal OEM coilpacks.
From Okada Projects:
"The Plasma Direct is an ignition coil with a built-in high-power amplifier. The Plasma Direct Coils produce 4 times more spark energy than stock coils, and generate an ultra-fast multi-spark-discharge of 10 sparks up to highest RPM.
The spark amperage is increased by 100%, allowing the spark to reach many more molecules, which therefore accelerates the ignition and combustion processes. This is extremely important in forced induction applications, but also improves the performance of normally aspirated engines."
So in short the idea is the ignition strength is increased and can improve better ignition. A common fault is coilpacks getting tired and creating misfires as they age. After speaking with Plasma Projects (main EU distributor) they have said the life of the coilpacks should increase by some margin and they have seen their coilpacks being sold and working 8-10 years on!
The main reason I have got them is to increase engine performance, hopefully to increase MPG, to increase the looks of the engine bay and also to help starting of the 2.0TFSI which in colder conditions is an issue.
As part of this test and review I will be getting my stage 2 2.0tfsi on a dyno and will be testing the difference between OEM and Plasma direct ignition coils. This way there is a subjective review to the gains instead of being less accurate with just a personal opinion.
Now some pictures:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fgocartingd%2FProject_TT%2F721a38e6.jpg&hash=53db77503b4654460c9b5de904a1c54a2fda1875)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fgocartingd%2FProject_TT%2F7420478d.jpg&hash=e85dbac51fdc31e0a45c1d15864ed94b8af18953)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fgocartingd%2FProject_TT%2F668c0044.jpg&hash=1cd17adb817c4e7e5641ec0fc28cf5efda8e68eb)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fgocartingd%2FProject_TT%2F810bd470.jpg&hash=3817d6996a353faf1fb4de13dee595801bee91e6)
Sourcing
I am a reseller of Okada projects ignition line and so got these at trade price. I am not doing this review to sell the items but to show the gains in a subjective way.
Fitting
This was very straight forward and any one could do this with a little bit of patience. Quite simply the coils are connected to a joined cable with a hard plastic sheath as you can see in the pictures. The plastic connectors simple pull away from the coil packs and when all are free they individually pull out. This may take a little bit of muscle to pull them out but in all it should take around 5 minutes if you already have the engine cover off. If you do have the older airbox style engine cover it will take more time to disassemble.
Other versions
To my knowledge these are a bit unique and nothing else is on the market with the same sort of technology. The only alternative is a OE or OEM coil pack but do not offer the same way of creating a spark.
Plus Points
So far I haven't yet dyno'd the car with both OEM and upgraded coilpacks but will post up when this is done. Also I am yet to do a long run on the car since fitting so cannot give a proper, accurate assessment of performance and MPG.
- Starting the car seems easier than normal and I don't seem to have any hesitations at all when turning the key.
- They look great and make a nice addition to the engine bay
- Performance. This will be officially measured instead of just taking my word for it. However now the engine seems to pull smoother in the higher rev range.
- MPG. I will post up when I know for sure what the case is. Before changing over I regularly get 36-37 MPG on motorways cruising at around 70-75MPH and around 24MPG around town. Now I seem to be getting 28MPG around town but I will not take this as a accurate test as there is too many variables.
- Potential of opening more mapping possibilities with a better spark? Will be looking into it.
- Smoother idle. The engine seems to tick over more smoothly and could potentially help the health of the engine out more.
- Each Coil is hand made
- Each Coil is tested before sending out
- Extremely high quality materials used for better heat handling capabilities
- Outlasting OEM coil packs many many times over. In some cases the coil packs are still performing strong 8-10 years later!
Minus Points
Without beating around the bush these are pricey at a RRP of around £575 for a set. Other than that I cannot think of a minus point.
Summary
In my opinion I would like to think the benefits outweigh the price. When tuning an engine I would like to know that I have every angle covered and if the engine is going to be healthier as a result while increasing performance then this should be a no-brainer choice. Is there a gain in performance? I will be finding out soon, but ultimately you have to relate back to the performance gains for the money you spend. If you spend £400 on an induction kit and gain 10bhp or £1,000 on a full exhaust system and gain 10-15bhp then spending £500-600 and getting similar gain would prove good value for money. Hopefully I can get some proper subjective evidence with my K03 turbo engine and maybe another 2.0tfsi with a bigger turbo, a K04 for example.
Hope you enjoyed the read and found this helped in some ways :smiley:
UPDATED WITH THE DYNO RESULTS
As promised guys here is the dyno results and write up for the Okada coils on my 2.0tfsi TT on stage 2 revo software.
Current engine set-up: Blueflame 3" TBE with racing cat, ITG enclosed intake, Upgraded DV, Neuspeed Power pulley, Neuspeed intercooler to throttle body pipe, NGK Iridium BKR7EIX plugs, Revo Stage 2 and of course the OEM and Plasma direct coils.
So what I wanted this test to be about is to see what the difference is between the OEM coils and the Plasma direct coils (hereby will be called PD coils). I took the opportunity to test other potential mapping settings and altered the AFR mixture and also timing while logging the runs but kept the boost setting the same throughout.
In total I did about 25-26 runs on the dyno and played around with the settings a fair amount. The temperature was reading 29 degrees in the dyno room as managed to pick a nice hot day to do the runs on! Heatsoak was a little bit of an issue so the results are taken from the same point on a set of runs to keep the best accuracy. It seemed generally the case that the first run was giving slightly better results and started to trail off on the 3rd and 4th consecutive run. Power figures in general are going to be a good 10bhp less than a good cool day as the temperature for a standard intercooler was a little stressing.
So away with some of the runs. To start off with we tested the Okada coils as a baseline on settings: Boost 6, Timing 4, AFR 8. Timing pull was coming up at about 2.3 and 3 on some cylinders which seemed it was pretty well set-up timing wise. The AFR looked healthy and the turbo giving a good 1.35-1.4 Bar. Peak BHP was 259.1BHP.
After a set of runs and logging the first thing adjusted was the AFR mixture to a level which Jim at JKM believed would give enough of a result to see on the dyno. The settings we went with was B6 T4 AFR4. From looking at the runs it was quite clear this was far too rich and seemed to only give a better graph power curve at the very latter part of the RPM range, the first 2/3rd's of the rpm range was quite down. Peak BHP was measured at 251.7BHP
The next run was changing the AFR back to 8 as this seemed to look best on the logging and on the dyno graph too. The timing was altered to retard as it would be a little dangerous to advance timing looking at the knock logs. This test is to see how the PD coils work with retarding the ignition, settings were set to B6 T2 AFR8. The peak power came out at 252.1BHP, it seemed a similar story with going richer on the AFR and that the early part of the power curve was down.
After these runs the settings were set back to B6 T4 AFR8 and run again to see how the temperature had changed and to create another baseline before immediately changing the coils. The peak power came back to 258.7BHP and seemed much stronger than any other settings. It seems the settings previously set-up on the car work the best and the PD coils didn't respond to changing the AFR or retarding the ignition. Not a huge surprise but shows how the power can affected by changing the settings.
Graph of the 258.7BHP run-
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fgocartingd%2FDyno_Work%2FSCAN0047.jpg&hash=641ad8268412d400b2f8bcdb80d8c38eee82ebb0)
Next is on with the OEM coils and keeping the same map settings (B6 T4 AFR8). The peak power came out with 256.5BHP which was the best curve by some margin, the other 5-6 runs came out with a similar peak but not as high power on the curve throughout.
The next graph is comparing the Okada PD and OEM coils on the same graph. Red is PD and Blue OEM.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fgocartingd%2FDyno_Work%2FSCAN0049.jpg&hash=a9d26ed868f66e34da682f7a240c836585aa56c5)
I decided to take the next best OEM coils run compared to a run on the Okada PD at the same point. Red is PD and Blue OEM.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fgocartingd%2FDyno_Work%2FSCAN0046.jpg&hash=29afa130221e5b35443b3148bd6c3bfcbf93edcf)
The Max BHP listed on the top of the graph is not the overall BHP but the BHP of the last run which was the OEM coils in both graphs. It's hard to take a complete definitive result on the early part of the RPM range and the power and performance of what both coils give. You can see on one graph the OEM has a stronger curve up to around 5,000 RPM but on the other graph the PD coils seems to be stronger over the entire curve.
It would seem that there is a common theme in the PD coils being able to keep a higher power figure over the last 1,000 RPM whereas the OEM seem to struggle a little more.
Conclusion
It would seem that both the OEM and PD coils react in a similar way when it comes to variations on mapping and have logs that look and read almost the same. I am undecided on whether the PD coil has a definitive gain over the majority of the RPM range, unfortunately it's not clear which one is better as different runs show they out do each other. Apart from 1 run on the OEM the Okada coil seemed to be stronger over the entire curve as shown in the 3rd graph. However it does seem the PD coil always had one over the OEM coil when it came down to the end of the RPM range and at times seems to hold another 10BHP over the OEM coil.
I would like to think I did this test as fair as possible. The results were taken within 20 minutes of each other (changing the coils), so the ambient temps were the same. The graphs were taken of the runs at the same point in each "session". The car was putting more power out first thing but this was not a fair test as the OEM coils were put on an hour and a half later so I took the last run before the OEM coils.
Do the PD coils give a gain? Answer would seem yes about 2.5 BHP more peak, they seem to hold the power for longer in the latter RPM range. And at times out do the OEM over the entire RPM range.
Was my 2.0tfsi the best test for these? Maybe. My 2.0tfsi was running a standard intercooler and fuel pump which meant it was not running near it's potential. I will go an get the next couple hardware mods sorted out with a stage 2+ remap and will do another back to back with the coils to see whether this would justify getting the PD coils more on a K03 turbo'd 2.0tfsi.
So what's next? In all honesty I would love to try these out on a higher powered engine as the demand for a higher spark is needed. The standard 2.0tfsi coils seem to do a good job and I think they start to get stressed on a K04 rather than a K03.
I would like to think they are a justifiable cost and if they outlast the OEM by 3-4 times then really they would be. Power wise they have given gains and possible more on a higher state of tune. MPG seems to be around 39 so maybe a 2MPG gain, I haven't done enough driving to say for certain and a 2MPG over only 400 miles of running is not clear enough to say for certain.
Hope you enjoyed the read :smiley:
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I look forward to the back to back dyno :smiley:
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Really well presented review with helpful information. The discussion which follows plus your additional further testing etc will be most interesting :drinking:
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Really well presented review with helpful information. The discussion which follows plus your additional further testing etc will be most interesting :drinking:
Cheers Robin :happy2: I used your write ups as a general format and got a decent idea how to structure it. I too look forward to the result, it may cost a little bit for the dyno but will get some good results from it. I know Mike has been eager to get his car tested with them on which would be great for a good test bed with a larger turbo 2.0tfsi that is also quite highly modified :happy2:
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Good write up and yes they are very expensive at their RRP.
There is another player from Canada in the plasm spark field but it's more complex to fit than the Okada ones as it involves more than just changing the coil packs.
I'll try to dig out the link if anyones interested...
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Good write up and yes they are very expensive at their RRP.
There is another player from Canada in the plasm spark field but it's more complex to fit than the Okada ones as it involves more than just changing the coil packs.
I'll try to dig out the link if anyones interested...
Many thanks :smiley: If you can dig that info out it would be very useful to add to the write up :happy2: Is that for the 2.0tfsi or another engine? I know other engines can involve changing the wiring harness and a few other things.
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Thanks for the feedback Dan. :congrats: My car is available in Bedford for quite some time for ko4 testing if it helps at all.
All that is stopping me from ordering is, waiting for; ko4 dyno results and further (more mid/long term) feedback and a bit more info in warranty as they are indeed a bit pricey for what could be classed as a consumable.
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Thanks for the feedback Dan. :congrats: My car is available in Bedford for quite some time for ko4 testing if it helps at all.
All that is stopping me from ordering is, waiting for; ko4 dyno results and further (more mid/long term) feedback and a bit more info in warranty as they are indeed a bit pricey for what could be classed as a consumable.
No problem Mike :wink: Well Ideally I would want to get on the same dyno at the same time to minimize costs. You say your car is available in Bedford? Does that mean it's under someone else's care? Would be good to get your car dyno'd with them on as it's pretty much maxed out on the K04 so would be a good test bed.
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Here is the link for SPDI Spark. http://spdispark.com/
Me thinks RR will like that girl as her lines could be misconstrued as being saucy. :evilgrin:
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Here is the link for SPDI Spark. http://spdispark.com/
Me thinks RR will like that girl as her lines could be misconstrued as being saucy. :evilgrin:
Not sure what to make of that company. It's seems the spark power and amperage can be controlled separately with a box and only seems to offer coils for 4 different cars. It probably works in a similar way but they are doing it more by input rather than amplifying the power in the coil itself. Shame it doesn't really explain how it works in words only by a rather seductive woman talking about making you combustion better and stronger :grin: The principles are very similar in the way the Okada projects coil seems to produce a lot more spark energy for a lot longer and has a secondary spark also.
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Thanks for the feedback Dan. :congrats: My car is available in Bedford for quite some time for ko4 testing if it helps at all.
All that is stopping me from ordering is, waiting for; ko4 dyno results and further (more mid/long term) feedback and a bit more info in warranty as they are indeed a bit pricey for what could be classed as a consumable.
No problem Mike :wink: Well Ideally I would want to get on the same dyno at the same time to minimize costs. You say your car is available in Bedford? Does that mean it's under someone else's care? Would be good to get your car dyno'd with them on as it's pretty much maxed out on the K04 so would be a good test bed.
My car is in Bedford under the care of AKS tuning.
Apr are over the road and have their own dyno and also need to flash a couple of files on my car. Would be an ideal opportunity. Would also prove if their is a benefit for the stage III boys if any one else is available for testing
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Smells like snake oil to me...
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Mighty profit for the chap bottling it if so. I hope for proven gains
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My car is in Bedford under the care of AKS tuning.
Apr are over the road and have their own dyno and also need to flash a couple of files on my car. Would be an ideal opportunity. Would also prove if their is a benefit for the stage III boys if any one else is available for testing
More files need flashing to your car?! By the time APR are done with your engine it's going to be more refined than a racing engine! :grin: Well Could prove to be a good opportunity. May just get my car on the local JKM dyno to test initially and can then set up sending out a test set etc.
Smells like snake oil to me...
Well I'm going to test them on the dyno so surely this is the best way to move forward? I'm not claiming anything as of yet, but feel free to say what ever you fancy :happy2:
Mighty profit for the chap bottling it if so. I hope for proven gains
So do I my friend, and the dyno will be the big test :happy2:
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Subscribed for dyno results, could be interesting for mine :smiley:
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Subscribed for dyno results, could be interesting for mine :smiley:
Just spoke to Keith. He's happy to dyno and see how they change any of the data / logs and gather any evidence of gains or potential for improving calibration around them :smiley:
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Yep one for the future, mine will be there on Saturday for recalibration as the engineers are over from the States for a week :happy2:
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Yep one for the future, mine will be there on Saturday for recalibration as the engineers are over from the States for a week :happy2:
Cool. Hope it goes well and you get to put it to the test soon :driver: :smiley:
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Yep one for the future, mine will be there on Saturday for recalibration as the engineers are over from the States for a week :happy2:
What engine do you have Steve?
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AXX with built bottom end and APR Stage 3 turbo kit :happy2:
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AXX with built bottom end and APR Stage 3 turbo kit :happy2:
ooo that sounds like fun :grin: Is that running a GT2871 then? Are you running WMI? The more cars to test these coils on the better really. Have spoken to Mike and sounds like I can get hold of his car to test the coils out at APR who can log and test accordingly which would be as good opportunity as ever! Possibly also test them on a 1.4TFSI if the fitment is correct.
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I have these on my little 1.4TSI Polo GTI. I primarily bought them to keep away the dreaded misfires I keep hearing about on this engine (not affected mine yet). Also, I am running WMI, so these will help to give a better burn.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi156.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ft8%2Fhurdy_album%2FIMAG0082.jpg&hash=59e18c207464e72cd93dcbe2b233768ddfa473b0)
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Keith wants to do some testing in the 1.4 (Sys) do you know if it's a completely different fitment to 2.0l john?
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Keith wants to do some testing in the 1.4 (Sys) do you know if it's a completely different fitment to 2.0l john?
IMO looks completely different to the 2l FSI ones...
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I have these on my little 1.4TSI Polo GTI. I primarily bought them to keep away the dreaded misfires I keep hearing about on this engine (not affected mine yet). Also, I am running WMI, so these will help to give a better burn.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi156.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ft8%2Fhurdy_album%2FIMAG0082.jpg&hash=59e18c207464e72cd93dcbe2b233768ddfa473b0)
Could you tell us a bit more about your experiences with these? Would be good for the thread to get as much information as possible :happy2:
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Keith wants to do some testing in the 1.4 (Sys) do you know if it's a completely different fitment to 2.0l john?
My thoughts are confirmed with looking at that picture in that they are different coilpacks. Let Keith know I can get hold of a set if he wants? Or can wait and see how they go on your car first. :wink:
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Subscribed to see the dyno results.
They want to be good for circa £500 :surprised:
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Subscribed to see the dyno results.
They want to be good for circa £500 :surprised:
....Yep, that's around the cost of a remap.
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Subscribed to see the dyno results.
They want to be good for circa £500 :surprised:
Can't see how this is gonna give any sort of gain, apart from maybe increase durability and maybe better with controlling higher engine temps etc.Hope these are compared to New OEM units and not used OEM'S.
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(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimage.eurotuner.com%2Ff%2Ftecharticles%2Feurp_1002_okada_projects_ignition_coils_audi_fsi_motor%2F27963583%2B%2Bw750%2Bar1%2Feurp_1002_05_o%2Bignition_coils%2Bdyno.jpg&hash=e5f80f97a663fb7ebd9620c8325fc352935ae1b8)
As test on a A4 2.0TFSI.
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Was the mapping calibrated to reap the benefits Rich?
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@ Rich, Pretty much what I would have expected to see. :happy2:
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Mike... i would have thought @ ~200bhp its on stock software.
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No mention of special calibration being needed on the Okada website: -
PLASMA DIRECT (PAT)
A revolution in ignition technology!!
The Plasma Direct is the ignition coil with a high power amplifier built in to it.
The Plasma Directs produce 4 times more spark energy than stock coils and also generate an ultra fast multi spark discharge of 10 sparks up to highest RPM.
The spark amperage is increased 100%, allowing the spark to reach many more molecules and therefore accelerate the ignition and combustion process. This is extremely important in forced induction applications but also improves the performance of normally aspirated engines.
The Plasma Direct will increase horsepower and torque throughout the entire rpm range. This upgrade will also reduce fuel consumption. Even the engines with a legendary smoothness will be further refined with the Plasma Direct upgrade. Our Plasma Directs are OBD II compliant.
Installation is easy. Direct bolt-in to the engine, no splicing or cutting into stock wiring, simply replace the stock coils with our Plasma Direct Coils and ready to go!
Plasma Direct is made to a specific application. Please check Application chart to find the correct model for your car.
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Both Statller Steve and apr Keith were saying calibration (of the timing iirc) would get the most from them
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^^^ Yep I understand that Mike, but if the manufacturer is making claims based on no calibration changes it makes me think these are heading towards the snake oil category.
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Subscribed to see the dyno results.
They want to be good for circa £500 :surprised:
....Yep, that's around the cost of a remap.
Not sure it's fair to compare a software upgrade to a hardware upgrade.
Really the best way to think of a comparison is other hardware mods around the same price range. I would imagine a decent intake is around £400 and a upgraded downpipe and sports cat might be around £500 odd. What quantified gains would they give compared to the coils. I think the Okada coils are more than just getting more power out of the engine, I believe they may help with better engine running and a healthier motor in general.
I haven't had a chance yet to test the coils as have been out of the country quite a bit of recent. I would like to get the coils on mikes Cupra and thinking I should sort out my fuelling issues on my K03 to get a proper gauge of their true potential. For the comparison of OEM vs Okada project coils, my OEM coilpacks have done about 4K miles since I got them all replaced before my remap at the end of last year. I think these would be a good enough test set?
I heard on a Stock TTRS engine they made around 15bhp improvement but am yet to see a dyno sheet.
^^^ Yep I understand that Mike, but if the manufacturer is making claims based on no calibration changes it makes me think these are heading towards the snake oil category.
Thinking about it that is a fair point. But they have been said they get gains from changing the timing settings. They can run richer than OEM coils and give better power as the spark is much stronger.
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(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimage.eurotuner.com%2Ff%2Ftecharticles%2Feurp_1002_okada_projects_ignition_coils_audi_fsi_motor%2F27963583%2B%2Bw750%2Bar1%2Feurp_1002_05_o%2Bignition_coils%2Bdyno.jpg&hash=e5f80f97a663fb7ebd9620c8325fc352935ae1b8)
As test on a A4 2.0TFSI.
So £500 for 1bhp and 3lb/ft (which I could get from a £40 panel filter!)
Where do I sign :grin:
As I said in another thread I think these fix a problem that doesn't exist a la the forge actuator :laugh:
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So £500 for 1bhp and 3lb/ft (which I could get from a £40 panel filter!)
Where do I sign :grin:
:grin:
Will get some dyno runs on the go and can make some decisions from there :smiley:
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^^^ Yep I understand that Mike, but if the manufacturer is making claims based on no calibration changes it makes me think these are heading towards the snake oil category.
:happy2: I'm not sold, I'm just hopeful that there will be some proof in he pudding.
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^^^ Yep I understand that Mike, but if the manufacturer is making claims based on no calibration changes it makes me think these are heading towards the snake oil category.
:happy2: I'm not sold, I'm just hopeful that there will be some proof in he pudding.
Well let me know when your around Mike and can make a trip up to test these out on the Cupra.
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So £500 for 1bhp and 3lb/ft (which I could get from a £40 panel filter!)
I'm as equally likely to not buy a panel filter at £40 as I am to spend £500 on Okada Plasma Coils. :laugh:
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Carl and Hedge, as usual you are being very narrow minded about this. You are completey missing out the fact that they look very nice, and the price is not for 1, but 4 nice looking coils. :pomppomp:
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Carl and Hedge, as usual you are being very narrow minded about this. You are completey missing out the fact that they look very nice, and the price is not for 1, but 4 nice looking coils. :pomppomp:
Where do i sign? :signLOL:
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Sorry Mr Cat. :ashamed:
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Carl and Hedge, as usual you are being very narrow minded about this. You are completey missing out the fact that they look very nice, and the price is not for 1, but 4 nice looking coils. :pomppomp:
I'm afraid it's you that is being narrow minded Mr Cat. I'm actually thinking outside the box as my wife has loads of this so i can make my OEM ones look a lot nicer AND change the styling as often as i like :P
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.makeup.uk.com%2Fekmps%2Fshops%2Fprovenlook%2Fimages%2F-b-bys-nail-polish-6-pack-glam-glitter-b--800-p.jpg&hash=28696e66d1c1c1244421ce0cdc041d5ad48100ca)
They even have Pink just for you :grin:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.thegloss.com%2Ffiles%2F2011%2F01%2Fnail_polish1.jpg&hash=29ba0dc1215b36e5ae00077330ad5f42acfe6418)
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I can see why people are dubious about the benefits of these coilpacks on the 2.0 TFSI but on the 1.4 TSI they are a very important part of surpressing possible misfires and making higher power without the fear of misfires.
On the higher powered cars these should allow cutting back ignition without reducing power and should make sure the engine doesn't pull timing as much too.
I can see how people think of these as snake-oil, but in the right applications they aren't. For anyone at stage 2+ or above you should seriously think of these as not just a power mod, but a mod to preserve the condition of the engine and to be able to run a wider range of settings without inducing timing pull. :smiley:
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I still want to see Dyno proof that they make the difference they claim.
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I can see why people are dubious about the benefits of these coilpacks on the 2.0 TFSI but on the 1.4 TSI they are a very important part of surpressing possible misfires and making higher power without the fear of misfires.
On the higher powered cars these should allow cutting back ignition without reducing power and should make sure the engine doesn't pull timing as much too.
I can see how people think of these as snake-oil, but in the right applications they aren't. For anyone at stage 2+ or above you should seriously think of these as not just a power mod, but a mod to preserve the condition of the engine and to be able to run a wider range of settings without inducing timing pull. :smiley:
Couldn't agree with your more.
I still want to see Dyno proof that they make the difference they claim.
That's fair enough and no one is forcing you into a decision either way on this product. When I have tested these I will post up the results, the potential benefits have been spoken about and then can be discussed after testing to see what the outcome is. I have offered to test these out on other members cars so you can see for yourself the outcome. Hopefully I will be getting down to the dyno in the next coming weeks and should have some information with regards to the 2.0tfsi engine.
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My car's going nowhere Dan so whenever suits you / Alex / Keith it will be available for testing. If possible before 1 Sept would be better for me as I have a better chance of being able to get down to the dyno in person :happy2:
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Hopefully I will be getting down to the dyno in the next coming weeks and should have some information with regards to the 2.0tfsi engine.
Are you able to get some results on a 2.0TSi?
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My car's going nowhere Dan so whenever suits you / Alex / Keith it will be available for testing. If possible before 1 Sept would be better for me as I have a better chance of being able to get down to the dyno in person :happy2:
Excellent, well it would be good to meet you in person so I will make the near 300 mile trip up to see you and the Cupra! I may be in the general area in 2-3 weeks time before sept the 1st so will keep you posted on that one :happy2:
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Hopefully I will be getting down to the dyno in the next coming weeks and should have some information with regards to the 2.0tfsi engine.
Are you able to get some results on a 2.0TSi?
Well at the moment the only cars to my disposal are 2.0tfsi K03 and K04 (Mikes). If someone has a new TSI 2.0 then happy to come to a dyno session and stick the coils on. Hopefully soon I can get a bit more information on how these things work at their optimum and what works (timing,boost,fueling). As Hurdy said it may be that on a car that isn't remapped the benifits may not be that obviously as a remapped car pushing the turbo, timing and fuelling harder.
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I have a 2.0TSi
Where are you doing the Dyno session?
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I have a 2.0TSi
Where are you doing the Dyno session?
On APRs Dyno as it stands Carl
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I have a 2.0TSi
Where are you doing the Dyno session?
On APRs Dyno as it stands Carl
Could use my car? Got tax. Lol.
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I told Keith he may have to have it trailered over, he is under the impression he can drive it over as 'road testing' ?
Testing the vRS wouldn't help me decide on the coils as its got a different map to me
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I told Keith he may have to have it trailered over, he is under the impression he can drive it over as 'road testing' ?
Testing the vRS wouldn't help me decide on the coils as its got a different map to me
He could drive it on trade plates.
If I don't adjust any settings then it would still show if there are any gains? Or would Keith be able to tweek the map to see if there are any gains that way?
He is coming over in the morning so I can ask some questions when I see him.
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I think these might be very beneficial for my car because as soon as the boost is turned up i get massive misfire issues even on brand new plugs and coil packs!!
But the 2.0TFSI doesn't have this issue so i dont see the point in them on that engine. Guys have been running stage 3 and 4 setups with no issues on std coilpacks so i cant see why they would be needed at stage 1, 2 or 2+.
Anyone know how they are for longevity? Id be pretty p!ssed if i bought a set and one wore really fast, its a pretty expensive consumable. Can you buy single replacements?
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Can you buy single replacements?
On the US audizine forum one dealer says you can...
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I think these might be very beneficial for my car because as soon as the boost is turned up i get massive misfire issues even on brand new plugs and coil packs!!
But the 2.0TFSI doesn't have this issue so i dont see the point in them on that engine. Guys have been running stage 3 and 4 setups with no issues on std coilpacks so i cant see why they would be needed at stage 1, 2 or 2+.
Anyone know how they are for longevity? Id be pretty p!ssed if i bought a set and one wore really fast, its a pretty expensive consumable. Can you buy single replacements?
Well it's an unknown quantity on the 2.0tfsi engines so would be good to test and see whether you can run a richer mix and still make good power. I think the coils have more than power figures as advantages, I will test these out to confirm what advantages they do have. If you can run a wider variety of settings then in my opinion that's a massive plus.
In terms of longevity part of the benefit of these coils is they have very good heat handling properties. As said earlier on in this thread, some coils are being sold 2nd hand with 8 years of use on them! So they should prove to be better for life but then like any mechanical part you can't 100% say for certain how long they will last, but going by some previous examples it looks like they last a decent amount of time!
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Are you going to be a UK dealer for these?
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Are you going to be a UK dealer for these?
If they prove to have benefits and gains then yes. That's why I'm looking to test them thoroughly and see the results, and if the benefits are there how can they be achieved. There may be some fine tweaking to a map to make them work properly which is what I would like to find out.
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So its in your best interests to make these sound good then?
I wouldnt mind hurdy putting his std coilpacks back in then doing back to back tests.
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Well in all honesty since I'm not an official dealer yet it doesn't matter either way how the tests go. I would like them to prove to be beneficial as I'm putting in my own money for dyno runs, paying for the coils and also all the fuel costs, but at the same time I will be showing the results so won't be just my word for it. That is also the reason why I am planning on testing them on Mikes Cupra as then another test can be done and more results can be taken from it from a un-biased source. They aren't my creation, I'm just looking into tuning possibilities and would love to find out what these give.
Hopefully in a couple weeks I can have all the data to show and see what these are all about. I believe they are beneficial from my own experience running them so far but the dyno will be the true test :) I will also see what it does to the MPG on a few longer runs next week :happy2:
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I'd be upto been a guinea pig on the TSI mk6 running stage 2 Revo
Be good to see some before and after RR results :happy2:
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Right guys, I managed to get down to JKM on their dyno for some 25 odd runs and have tested a whole range of possibilities for these coils. I must admit that they did perform quite similar and peak figures are within a few bhp. There was a few themes of what the Okada coils do compared to the OEM that at times held more power that the OEM but overall peak power and torque figures are very similar.
I will scan in the dyno charts and explain the process I went through. The temps inside the dyno room were quite hot today at 29 degrees and running a standard intercooler and also a standard fuel pump may push me towards thinking these coils are needed more for bigger powered engines with larger turbo's.
Anyway I will work on the dyno sheets and look through the logs I have and write up about the dyno runs so you guys can see what went on. I do at the moment think on the level of tune on my 2.0TFSI (stage 2) they may not be the best test of their potential.
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^^^^
That's good to know (about 2.0T FSI Stage 2) and I expect that Jim was quite interested in what you both found too. :happy2:
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^^^^
That's good to know (about 2.0T FSI Stage 2) and I expect that Jim was quite interested in what you both found too. :happy2:
Jim was awesome, very knowledgeable and has given me some great data logs. He worked with me to test all possibilities out and come up with what work and is best. Both his and my opinion is that they are similar to the OEM but was a little hard with the 2.0tfsi to get very consistent runs, especially with the heat. After looking hard at the graphs you can see the trend of the okada coils is they seem to be quite strong in the last 1,000 RPM (up to 10BHP) but before that the graphs on several runs seems to show both coils to be quite evenly matched.
I will post up the graphs tomorrow. Very happy with JKM, great bunch of people there who really know their stuff. Car felt in very good hands! Although only downside is the zort and valance is quite sooty now after so many dyno runs! :grin:
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:congrats: :congrats: :congrats:
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500 quid for 10bhp over a 7th of the rev range...... No thanks.
If I don't drive my car for a week it feels like its 10bhp faster than last week.... and thats free. LOL.
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Did Jim try them on his own car at all?
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We'll soon see if the OKADA plugs make any difference on my car. Im having alot of misfires when the boost is ramped up, and the coilpacks should be in about a week.
I sincerely hope that they make the difference or ill be stripping out and selling up i think.
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As promised guys here is the dyno results and write up for the Okada coils on my 2.0tfsi TT on stage 2 revo software.
Current engine set-up: Blueflame 3" TBE with racing cat, ITG enclosed intake, Upgraded DV, Neuspeed Power pulley, Neuspeed intercooler to throttle body pipe, NGK Iridium BKR7EIX plugs, Revo Stage 2 and of course the OEM and Plasma direct coils.
So what I wanted this test to be about is to see what the difference is between the OEM coils and the Plasma direct coils (hereby will be called PD coils). I took the opportunity to test other potential mapping settings and altered the AFR mixture and also timing while logging the runs but kept the boost setting the same throughout.
In total I did about 25-26 runs on the dyno and played around with the settings a fair amount. The temperature was reading 29 degrees in the dyno room as managed to pick a nice hot day to do the runs on! Heatsoak was a little bit of an issue so the results are taken from the same point on a set of runs to keep the best accuracy. It seemed generally the case that the first run was giving slightly better results and started to trail off on the 3rd and 4th consecutive run. Power figures in general are going to be a good 10bhp less than a good cool day as the temperature for a standard intercooler was a little stressing.
So away with some of the runs. To start off with we tested the Okada coils as a baseline on settings: Boost 6, Timing 4, AFR 8. Timing pull was coming up at about 2.3 and 3 on some cylinders which seemed it was pretty well set-up timing wise. The AFR looked healthy and the turbo giving a good 1.35-1.4 Bar. Peak BHP was 259.1BHP.
After a set of runs and logging the first thing adjusted was the AFR mixture to a level which Jim at JKM believed would give enough of a result to see on the dyno. The settings we went with was B6 T4 AFR4. From looking at the runs it was quite clear this was far too rich and seemed to only give a better graph power curve at the very latter part of the RPM range, the first 2/3rd's of the rpm range was quite down. Peak BHP was measured at 251.7BHP
The next run was changing the AFR back to 8 as this seemed to look best on the logging and on the dyno graph too. The timing was altered to retard as it would be a little dangerous to advance timing looking at the knock logs. This test is to see how the PD coils work with retarding the ignition, settings were set to B6 T2 AFR8. The peak power came out at 252.1BHP, it seemed a similar story with going richer on the AFR and that the early part of the power curve was down.
After these runs the settings were set back to B6 T4 AFR8 and run again to see how the temperature had changed and to create another baseline before immediately changing the coils. The peak power came back to 258.7BHP and seemed much stronger than any other settings. It seems the settings previously set-up on the car work the best and the PD coils didn't respond to changing the AFR or retarding the ignition. Not a huge surprise but shows how the power can affected by changing the settings.
Graph of the 258.7BHP run-
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fgocartingd%2FDyno_Work%2FSCAN0047.jpg&hash=641ad8268412d400b2f8bcdb80d8c38eee82ebb0)
Next is on with the OEM coils and keeping the same map settings (B6 T4 AFR8). The peak power came out with 256.5BHP which was the best curve by some margin, the other 5-6 runs came out with a similar peak but not as high power on the curve throughout.
The next graph is comparing the Okada PD and OEM coils on the same graph. Red is PD and Blue OEM.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fgocartingd%2FDyno_Work%2FSCAN0049.jpg&hash=a9d26ed868f66e34da682f7a240c836585aa56c5)
I decided to take the next best OEM coils run compared to a run on the Okada PD at the same point. Red is PD and Blue OEM.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fgocartingd%2FDyno_Work%2FSCAN0046.jpg&hash=29afa130221e5b35443b3148bd6c3bfcbf93edcf)
The Max BHP listed on the top of the graph is not the overall BHP but the BHP of the last run which was the OEM coils in both graphs. It's hard to take a complete definitive result on the early part of the RPM range and the power and performance of what both coils give. You can see on one graph the OEM has a stronger curve up to around 5,000 RPM but on the other graph the PD coils seems to be stronger over the entire curve.
It would seem that there is a common theme in the PD coils being able to keep a higher power figure over the last 1,000 RPM whereas the OEM seem to struggle a little more.
Conclusion
It would seem that both the OEM and PD coils react in a similar way when it comes to variations on mapping and have logs that look and read almost the same. I am undecided on whether the PD coil has a definitive gain over the majority of the RPM range, unfortunately it's not clear which one is better as different runs show they out do each other. Apart from 1 run on the OEM the Okada coil seemed to be stronger over the entire curve as shown in the 3rd graph. However it does seem the PD coil always had one over the OEM coil when it came down to the end of the RPM range and at times seems to hold another 10BHP over the OEM coil.
I would like to think I did this test as fair as possible. The results were taken within 20 minutes of each other (changing the coils), so the ambient temps were the same. The graphs were taken of the runs at the same point in each "session". The car was putting more power out first thing but this was not a fair test as the OEM coils were put on an hour and a half later so I took the last run before the OEM coils.
Do the PD coils give a gain? Answer would seem yes about 2.5 BHP more peak, they seem to hold the power for longer in the latter RPM range. And at times out do the OEM over the entire RPM range.
Was my 2.0tfsi the best test for these? Maybe. My 2.0tfsi was running a standard intercooler and fuel pump which meant it was not running near it's potential. I will go an get the next couple hardware mods sorted out with a stage 2+ remap and will do another back to back with the coils to see whether this would justify getting the PD coils more on a K03 turbo'd 2.0tfsi.
So what's next? In all honesty I would love to try these out on a higher powered engine as the demand for a higher spark is needed. The standard 2.0tfsi coils seem to do a good job and I think they start to get stressed on a K04 rather than a K03.
I would like to think they are a justifiable cost and if they outlast the OEM by 3-4 times then really they would be. Power wise they have given gains and possible more on a higher state of tune. MPG seems to be around 39 so maybe a 2MPG gain, I haven't done enough driving to say for certain and a 2MPG over only 400 miles of running is not clear enough to say for certain.
Hope you enjoyed the read :smiley:
Thought I would add a picture too.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fac115%2Fgocartingd%2FUntitled.jpg&hash=caf9773795527b3c0a5af81be013eb135a5192e2)
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Did Jim try them on his own car at all?
Didn't get a chance to try them on Jim's K04. Would of been good to see though :sad1:
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What I thought. His car is in a rather higher state of tune, I believe... :signLOL:
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Did Jim try them on his own car at all?
Didn't get a chance to try them on Jim's K04. Would of been good to see though :sad1:
I'm guessing you probably ran out of time as Jim is normally up for something like that.
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Did Jim try them on his own car at all?
Didn't get a chance to try them on Jim's K04. Would of been good to see though :sad1:
I'm guessing you probably ran out of time as Jim is normally up for something like that.
My wallet was getting thin after 2 hours worth of dyno testing :grin: In reality I should of asked and see what he said. Mean's I will have to travel up to Mr Mike Cupra now for a APR dyno session!
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^^^^
Mike is a really nice guy too - You'll have a good day :happy2:
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^^^^
Mike is a really nice guy too - You'll have a good day :happy2:
:ashamed: Thanks Robin :drinking:
Afraid I probably wont be around when Dan has time to get to APR as I'll most likely be in Afghanistan. (getting royally mucked about with deployment dates, was meant to deploy in April :mad:)
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TT, are you not running an uprated HPFP?
We can also test the coils on the vRS as well as Mikes car. Mikes wont be driveable once the top mounts and bushes go on. Will need an alignment before it can go on the dyno.
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TT, are you not running an uprated HPFP?
We can also test the coils on the vRS as well as Mikes car. Mikes wont be driveable once the top mounts and bushes go on. Will need an alignment before it can go on the dyno.
Hi Alex,
No I'm not running an Upgraded HPFP yet, need that and an intercooler really. What is your current set-up on your VRS, the more test cars the better really so happy to chuck them on. I can take a day out to drive up, can't say for sure when I'm next going to be in the general area so this might be the best choice. Let me know what work with you guys :smiley:
Cheers,
Dan
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Let me know when you plan to test on Mike as I can bring my Stage 3+ car over to APR as well :happy2:
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Let me know when you plan to test on Mike as I can bring my Stage 3+ car over to APR as well :happy2:
Will let you know steve, would be great to get another car to see some more results and data. :happy2:
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Keith's not goin to know what's hit him haha
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Be very interested to see the outcome of these cars on the dyno. Even better if Keith could test his stage 2+ Golf .:R. :party:
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Be very interested to see the outcome of these cars on the dyno. Even better if Keith could test his stage 2+ Go
F .:R. :party:
Keith is now running a stage 4 turbo on the R with a gtx2860. On the stock injectors its maxed out fueling at 405 bhp. Loads more in it once fueling is sorted.
Got got a lovely custom downpipe on it now! :grin:
I'm popping over to get the vRS on the dyno on Friday if all goes to plan. Not sure it will have these coilpacks available for then?
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What's Keith faffing about at. Takes less than half a day to swap the injectors out, put RS4 ones in and fit an RS6 LPFP. :signLOL:
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What's Keith faffing about at. Takes less than half a day to swap the injectors out, put RS4 ones in and fit an RS6 LPFP. :signLOL:
Has it been confirmed that the rs6 lpfp is good to use with larger turbos?
I think Keith has now done the fueling upgrades.
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What's Keith faffing about at. Takes less than half a day to swap the injectors out, put RS4 ones in and fit an RS6 LPFP. :signLOL:
Has it been confirmed that the rs6 lpfp is good to use with larger turbos?
I think Keith has now done the fueling upgrades.
Don't know for sure about the RS6 LPFP.
If he's done the fuelling upgrades I want dyno graphs now :laugh:
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Be very interested to see the outcome of these cars on the dyno. Even better if Keith could test his stage 2+ Go
F .:R. :party:
Keith is now running a stage 4 turbo on the R with a gtx2860. On the stock injectors its maxed out fueling at 405 bhp. Loads more in it once fueling is sorted.
Got got a lovely custom downpipe on it now! :grin:
I'm popping over to get the vRS on the dyno on Friday if all goes to plan. Not sure it will have these coilpacks available for then?
Sorry, just checked the forum so a little late on the scene! I'm away in Hungary from Wednesday through Sunday so if you wanted I can send them to you to trial out? As long as you send them back soon after your done :grin: If you could give me a PM Alex and can sort something out potentially.
Cheers,
Dan
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What's Keith faffing about at. Takes less than half a day to swap the injectors out, put RS4 ones in and fit an RS6 LPFP. :signLOL:
Has it been confirmed that the rs6 lpfp is good to use with larger turbos?
I think Keith has now done the fueling upgrades.
Don't know for sure about the RS6 LPFP.
If he's done the fuelling upgrades I want dyno graphs now :laugh:
Who is in the know regarding the RS6 LPFP?
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good results
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Here is the link for SPDI Spark. http://spdispark.com/
Me thinks RR will like that girl as her lines could be misconstrued as being saucy. :evilgrin:
Not sure what to make of that company. It's seems the spark power and amperage can be controlled separately with a box and only seems to offer coils for 4 different cars. It probably works in a similar way but they are doing it more by input rather than amplifying the power in the coil itself. Shame it doesn't really explain how it works in words only by a rather seductive woman talking about making you combustion better and stronger :grin: The principles are very similar in the way the Okada projects coil seems to produce a lot more spark energy for a lot longer and has a secondary spark also.
Hello to all,
Not to jack this post but I have the spdi system on my 2001 A4 B5 the results are very impressive. This system is very different form the stock or CDI systems talked about on the post. The main differences are: spdi will fire a continuous spark for up to 60 crank angle degrees with adjustable power levels. CDI or ID systems fire a spark and that is all you get, the spdi system is fully programmable meaning you can adapt the spark to the apply the engine conditions using the software. There is a new website, no seductive brunette: If this link below works here is a video of the sparks:
Top: CDI (Okada,MSD type)
Middle: ID (typical Bosch found on VAG vehicles)
Bottom Spdi (programmable plasma notice in the vid the plasma will increase)
http://s217.beta.photobucket.com/user/AftershockAutomotive/media/IMG_0553.mp4.html
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What was outcome of this guys? My car will be built to Stage2+ spec soon by Alex :smiley: so i will need little things to spend money on after
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Regarding these and the use og Synology silver plugs:
After personal experience i must strongly recommend that these coilpacks aren't used with any plugs with a lower resistance than stock, as they won't be able to use the energy they generate and WILL cause the coilpacks to catch fire.
Okada have taken notice to this and has put a warning inside their products packaging to avoid there plugs being matched with the wrong type of plugs :smiley:
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I used the coils with NGK Iridium plugs for about 5-6K miles and worked like a dream. Just taken them off the car and are in the for sale section now.
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I had these on my JCW, excellent product.