MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Modifications & Technical Area => Performance Modifications => Topic started by: heavyd on June 30, 2012, 04:45:05 pm
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Hello folks, I noticed ,y car felt a bit sluggish this week, so popped into PDtuning for some advice :wink:He advised some datalogging, which I did, and found that for some reason, it isnt getting near peak boost until another 700rpm in the rev range, which explains why it feels sluggish at lower rpm.
Has anyone any ideas as to what could be causing this? Surely cant just be the heat? I've swapped the DV over to a one I had in the shed, which gave the same results. also MAF values look a lot different also
Heres 2 logs, first one is from the other month, last one is from today, both running same revo settings
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fb150%2Fheavyd123%2Flog1-1.jpg&hash=fc949739cea693a39ca51b1fe3f6899c56295bc7)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fb150%2Fheavyd123%2Flog2-1.jpg&hash=c6307c11f0b4b572946624cf3d33139970f4805e)
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its not making requested load, look at the difference in the load column, its huge. I will look over the logs you emailed and report back......
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its not making requested load, look at the difference in the load column, its huge. I will look over the logs you emailed and report back......
Thanks Dave :happy2:
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MAF might be the cause I reckon ......it's not reading as high as last month at same rev points - hence engine loading gets affected and you're not getting full boost
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I've already swapped the MAF over :sad1:
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Oh poo 1.7 bar!
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its the boost before 3000rpm I was on about.
car is sluggish as hell until 3k rpm. backfires when revved when sitting at idle. couldnt catch a 1.5dci qashqai today from a standing start :scared:
Looks like I'm back to square one again, no fault codes showing at all either
Booked in at PDT on wednesday. Lets see he can even the tally with R-Tech for the title of 'saviour of the MK5golfgti forum' :notworthy:
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Sounds like a challenge :signLOL:
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Got every Faith in you Dave :notworthy:
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Sounds like a challenge :signLOL:
No doubt it will be :surprised:
Got every Faith in you Dave :notworthy:
Is your car all done now Andy ?
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It's all done mate,but the modding side of it thou :signLOL:went to see Darron and had his hybrid turbo fitted,saving up for the clutch now to get the best out of the turbo
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How come the requested boost levels are loads different between the two logs? It's also cutting throttle back.
What's the timing pull like?
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not very good compared to what it was
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fb150%2Fheavyd123%2Ftiming-1.jpg&hash=1f586d3750017255737ab6c6bdd8287794ef9b5d)
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A quick update just incase anyone else has a similar issue in future. The car was in with us today and we physically and visually checked:
Front PCV
Rear PCV
Intake manifold flaps (including adaption restet)
In tank fuel pump (including adaption restet)
Throttle valve (including adaption restet)
AFM
Throttle pedal
Load values
Lambda adations
Boost pipes
Lambda sensors
Then we stripped the cam cover and timing belt cover off, checked that the belt and chain were all timed correctly and that the cams were correctly aligned.
None of which helped, all was ok. Noticed that the ignition advance at idle would occasionally jump by 10/15 degrees followed by a hesitation in idle speed and a rich idle mixture, this would open the throttle drive plate slightly to correct the values.
Next step is to change the crank and cam sensors, see if the helps. It all points to a badly fitted timing belt, same symptoms as we have seen many times before, so unless the bottom crank pulley has slipped my hope is its the crank sensor.
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Thanks Dave :happy2:
Sounds like a challenge :signLOL:
Seems like you were right Dave :sad1: :sad1:
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Oh well, crank and cam sensors were changed today at PDT.
Running out of ideas now, has anyone have any ideas they can think of by any chance?
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Did Dave check to see if the crank pulley has spun?
Cracked head?
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Did Dave check to see if the crank pulley has spun?
Cracked head?
Not sure. But Looks like I'm going to be wasting a lot of money again!
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:surprised:sorry to hear this Dom
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Aww this sucks Dom! Is this the same car you had all your previous issues on? Dom
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Yes Dom, its the very same car I went through this with 6 months ago :sad1:
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Just remind me if you will what the last answer was, I thought you went back to standard... Seems every time you start tuning her up it throws faults highlighting and underlying problem...
Oh bloody hell... Hope you can get it sorted... Could you try the Ecu on another car to rule that out... Then you'll know it's hardware... If its something like a temp./ cam position/ throttle sensor surely they would give a fault...
Has the timing belt been changed... Worth changing and setting up again?
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Just remind me if you will what the last answer was, I thought you went back to standard... Seems every time you start tuning her up it throws faults highlighting and underlying problem...
Oh bloody hell... Hope you can get it sorted... Could you try the Ecu on another car to rule that out... Then you'll know it's hardware... If its something like a temp./ cam position/ throttle sensor surely they would give a fault...
Has the timing belt been changed... Worth changing and setting up again?
Theres no fault codes, timing belt was changed last year, though was taken off when the engine was done. all markings are correctly lined up. I looked at the haynes manual, and I think it would be very hard for the timing belt to slip past the key?
Last time the cams wer incorrectly lined up, it didnt throw a fault code either. I did have a fault code a few weeks ago
000017 - Bank 1: Camshaft A (Intake)
P0011 - 004 - Retard Setpoint not Reached (Over-Advanced) - Intermittent
000022 - Bank 1: CMP Sensor (G40) / Engine Speed Sensor (G28)
P0016 - 008 - Incorrect Correlation - Intermittent
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Ive not given up yet, determined to get this one solved. Theres some very odd things going on with the ignition advance at idle that dissapear when you engage drive.
A test of TDC position vs crank alignment marks lead me to believe that the crank wheel has not slipped.
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Is there the slightest chance that the ECU has gone a little corrupt? is has been flashed once or twice?
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don't suppose the cam shafts have gone out of timing again
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no theyve been checked, the car drives the same as it did when they were out though :stupid:
I also did the DSG basic settings aswell to rule that out aswell
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Ahhhhhh Dom
I feel for you buddy Mike pointed me to this thread.
Have you checked the cam shaft variator ? There is a sPring that becomes week or the cam shaft variator can come loose inside and cause timing issues.
Mike thanks for the link mate I'm I turkey at the mo so not texting costa fortune.
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No worries Rob, thanks for the input. Yours was an epic to diagnose!
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Thanks for the suggestion. Is it the n205 valve?
Was this what was wrong with yours Rob?
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Thanks for the suggestion. Is it the n205 valve?
Was this what was wrong with yours Rob?
Hey Dom
The problem with my car was that the dealer just set my cams wrong but the dealer and seat swore there was nothing wrong
Since then they have said that because it's a variable timed engine it don't make any difference lol.
The part I'm talking about is actually part of the variator the big aluminium bit on the right hand side of your engine, this houses the chain that drives your cam shafts and in there is a spring and pin mechanism which is suppossed to lock in place on choke , but the springs can become weak or broken.
It's just another thing to rule out mate.
Didnt someone also have a broken cam shaft sprocket which have similar issues to what you are experiencing?
Keep your chin up buddy I went through sh*t for 3 1/2 years to find my issue.
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Keep your chin up buddy I went through sh*t for 3 1/2 years to find my issue.
Haha that's reassuring to know lol :sick:
But a good few things to check there Dom... hope they help.
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It going in to get sorted on Saturday. Hope it isnt the variator, over £300 just for that little bit of aluminium :surprised:
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Fingers crossed for you bud...
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It going in to get sorted on Saturday. Hope it isnt the variator, over £300 just for that little bit of aluminium :surprised:
Hope you get it sorted mate , and it puts the smile back on your face :-)
Nothing worse than trying to find a bloody fault with no fault codes , I'm sure it will be something simple,
Keep us updated mate
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It going in to get sorted on Saturday. Hope it isnt the variator, over £300 just for that little bit of aluminium :surprised:
Any updates mate?
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Statllers have got the car, theyre going to try and fit it in when they get the time, so no updates as of yet :popcornsoda:
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Statllers have got the car, theyre going to try and fit it in when they get the time, so no updates as of yet :popcornsoda:
its in goods hands then :happy2:
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Any more updates Dom?
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Still haven't heard anything yet mate :popcornsoda:
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Still haven't heard anything yet mate :popcornsoda:
What have they found so far?
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Got nice valve marks on the pistons, new rocker rollers in and cylinders still leaking :scared:
Don't know if it's from when the cams were put in wrong and caused damage that has got worse, badly reassembled cylinder head refurb or something else. Statllers has assured me they will sort it out for me :notworthy:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fb150%2Fheavyd123%2F1df273d1.jpg&hash=cca2b05ef1160aeef01581c3bef07560d43143f9)
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Got nice valve marks on the pistons, new rocker rollers in and cylinders still leaking :scared:
Don't know if it's from when the cams were put in wrong and caused damage that has got worse, badly reassembled cylinder head refurb or something else. Statllers has assured me they will sort it out for me :notworthy:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fb150%2Fheavyd123%2F1df273d1.jpg&hash=cca2b05ef1160aeef01581c3bef07560d43143f9)
Have you informed the bunch of muppets who did the work?
That's shocking !
Feel for you buddy
When you say pistons still leaking you talking about a leak down test?
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Looking a that you'd think a key way on a cam or crank gear had worn or broke causing the timing to dance around causing contact.
Saying that to make contact your talking more than 1 tooth out so hope it's not done too much damage and you get it sorted once and for all.
Do you think that last time you got it sorted that was just the effect that was fixed and the original cause has always been there?
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Dom, you should gather all evidence of the faults that have been caused due to this engine rebuild and present them to the place that carried out the work, their mistakes must have cost you a small fortune by now.
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or if no joy a small claims court
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I doubt I'll get anywhere anyway. They paid pdt for putting the cam timing right, so doubt I'll see anymore money off them. Spent about £400 before it went to stattlers, and the work they're going to be doing won't be cheap either.
I just want it all sorting, I like the car, so can't justify paying out another £9k for a different car, although if I had traded it in last year, would already have paid £7.5k off that off already With what I've spent on it in the last year:sad1:
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I doubt I'll get anywhere anyway. They paid pdt for putting the cam timing right, so doubt I'll see anymore money off them. Spent about £400 before it went to stattlers, and the work they're going to be doing won't be cheap either.
I just want it all sorting, I like the car, so can't justify paying out another £9k for a different car, although if I had traded it in last year, would already have paid £7.5k off that off already With what I've spent on it in the last year:sad1:
You got her back yet Dom?
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Still haven't got it back yet :sad1:
Another problem was found after the head was put back on......
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least the car is going back together--take it the leak down test went ok.What is the problem now!
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cant remember exactly, was something like the crankshaft pulley had been fitted 90 degrees out, and there wasnt a woodruff key in it or something like that. Absolutely disgraceful
. Just sick of not having a car at all for the last 4 weeks :sad1:
At least the cause of the problem has been found, otherwise I'd have been making a trip back down there again :drinking:
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cant remember exactly, was something like the crankshaft pulley had been fitted 90 degrees out, and there wasnt a woodruff key in it or something like that. Absolutely disgraceful
. Just sick of not having a car at all for the last 4 weeks :sad1:
At least the cause of the problem has been found, otherwise I'd have been making a trip back down there again :drinking:
Is that crank problem from factory or when the car has had al the other work done on it?
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Well, was all stripped down, and new piston rings fitted at the 'VW Specialist' so I guess they would have tampered with it then :fighting:
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Well, was all stripped down, and new piston rings fitted at the 'VW Specialist' so I guess they would have tampered with it then :fighting:
Suprised you still calling them VW specialist?
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That's why I put it in quotes :wink:
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Would have been the camshaft pulley as that has the woodruff key. That's very poor fitting something so important so wrongly.
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was definetly something to do with the toothed crankshaft pulley alex. either way, was informed that the car now idles and revs without backfiring now anyway :drinking:
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was definetly something to do with the toothed crankshaft pulley alex. either way, was informed that the car now idles and revs without backfiring now anyway :drinking:
sounds like you might get it back soon then :happy2:
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Awesome news... hope it's all running perfectly when you get it back! :happy2:
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was definetly something to do with the toothed crankshaft pulley alex. either way, was informed that the car now idles and revs without backfiring now anyway :drinking:
Odd one that. Just a keyway on the crank pulley with the wookruff key being on the cam pulley.
I really hope this is the last of your troubles. Cant believe how long this has dragged on for. Bet you cant wait to get back in it.
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So does that mean that your cars crank pulley has slowly been turning round? And I presume that the crank must have. Even out of position?
Did you have timing pull when you logged your car with this fault
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Explains why the ECU was struggling trying to control cam and crank signals.
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Well, I got my car back today, what a difference it has made!
A Massive thanks to Steve JNR at Stattlers :notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy:
Its been in various garages for the last year to get the car finally fixed, various issues from a botched engine rebuild.
So basically loads of work done by stattlers to finally solve the problem.
First main issue was thought to have been caused by quite a few broken rocker rollers
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fb150%2Fheavyd123%2F5f024c78.jpg&hash=9bf5632035c03cd0fb3118dfd363c30261354e52)
after the cylinder head was changed over for another one, as cylinders were still leaking, car still wasnt right.
was then narrowed down to this, somehow the keyway has mysteriously vanished from the camshaft toothed belt pulley
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fb150%2Fheavyd123%2F699f8419.jpg&hash=c9d1b238269e7f3c689ea6a311179ae78c646356)
After the latest Revo software was installed, car ended up producing this
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fb150%2Fheavyd123%2F2d5e27bd.jpg&hash=82cc2900c06f19f2bcd18bc0990d6b23863da80f)
Once again, a massive thanks to Steve Jnr at Statllers, car is finally fixed, and running perfect :drinking: :drinking:
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That sounds like good news finally. :pomppomp: :pomppomp:
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Phew! Always good to hear when a problem gets solved. Now start enjoying your car all over again... A second honeymoon! :happy2:
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Glad to see it sorted finally after all the hassle with it over the last year,NOw get it on the stand at vw fest :signLOL:
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Really pleased for you mate , I know what it's like to finally get your car back all fixed and I know the smile it puts back on your face and you remember the reason why you bought it in the first place.
Just out of interest how much have you spent trying to get it all sorted out from all garages ? Are we talking half a new car?
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Really pleased for you mate , I know what it's like to finally get your car back all fixed and I know the smile it puts back on your face and you remember the reason why you bought it in the first place.
Just out of interest how much have you spent trying to get it all sorted out from all garages ? Are we talking half a new car?
Yep, had a nice grin on my face on the drive home :driver:
Just engine repair bills were at about £4700 in total before Statllers touched it, don't want to disclose the last bill. Just happy it's all sorted now :drinking:
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Yikes but congrats. Time to change the sig?
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Where were the broken bits from the rockers? Find them?
What was the cause for the leaking head?
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I've had a nightmare couple of months with mien running rough ... but read your thread a few times to know things weren't that bad. :ashamed:
Glad its all sorted :jumpmove: :jumpmove:
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Glad you are all sorted, Steve @ Statllers knows his stuff. If you do decide you want to sell let me know !
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Where were the broken bits from the rockers? Find them?
What was the cause for the leaking head?
Yep all broken parts found and catered for :happy2:
I'll post some pics and in depth details when I've got a minute (if that ever happens)
The main reason for all this was the toothed crank pulley locking key way was bust, the male part had vapourised probably over tightened with an impact gun before it was correctly aligned, this just left the bolt to keep things timed correctly which obviously didn't work out.
The key way slot in the crank was badly damaged too, took a lot of filing and playing around to get the pulley to lock back in correctly I thought the crank was scrap at first!!
The slight valve to piston contact bust some exhaust rockers, we originally tried swapping just the rockers but still got way too much leakage.
In the end the Car ran nice and strong on our rollers
Like i said more exact details later when I've got a bit more time
Glad Doms happy now :wink:
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just shows you a litttle piece of metal like a woodruff key can be so important--good to hear its all sorted now
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So glad your at the end of all your problems, Dom :happy2:
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Just to add to this (even if it is a little late). I was down at Statllers when Steve Jr found the the root cause of the problem. I almost sh!t myself I was that shocked!!
When the timing at the top was at TDC (top dead centre) the bottom crank timing was almost exactly 180o out!!!! The marker on the crank pulley should have been in line with the pointer on the engine, but was actually at the bottom!
Anyways, really glad your car is back to how it should be and that Statllers did the business for you. That final dyno is spot on too. :happy2:
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My god I feel for you buddy but I bet its a relief to have it sorted.
Did you have to pay all the £4700?
What with that and the last bill you could have bought a new engine from the Stealers :scared:
So glad its sorted for you.
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My god I feel for you buddy but I bet its a relief to have it sorted.
Did you have to pay all the £4700?
What with that and the last bill you could have bought a new engine from the Stealers :scared:
So glad its sorted for you.
I managed to get £300 off the garage for the work PDTuning did to sort the cam timing out, that was all. I'm just glad its sorted now. I'm now running more timing than I did before, and with less CF's on a hotter day :happy2:
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Fckin hell !! Great to see thats it back to how it should be, im surprized it wasnt worse given the problem, i hate seeing power tools and impact ratchets being used on a car - NO NEED !
Sound like statlers are the nuts, ive been on here for a few years now and heard nothing but praise, only a 4.5 hour drive for me aswell !
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^^^^
Hurdy has been singing Statller's praises to me for years and I wish they were closer than 5.5 hours fast drive away from me. Not that JKM, another small and fiercely independent specialist, isn't good enough (1.5 hours away).
Such dedicated workshops staffed and run by genuine enthusiasts (AKS is another) are invaluable :notworthy:. Very glad to hear you have things sorted, Dom :happy2:
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^^^^
Hurdy has been singing Statller's praises to me for years and I wish they were closer than 5.5 hours fast drive away from me. Not that JKM, another small and fiercely independent specialist, isn't good enough (1.5 hours away).
Such dedicated workshops staffed and run by genuine enthusiasts (AKS is another) are invaluable :notworthy:. Very glad to hear you have things sorted, Dom :happy2:
Yes mate, very grateful to them, think it was only a 2.5hr drive away from me. i also have PDtuning 5mins away from where i live, whom have helped me massively in the past, and sorted the car at the beginning of the year when no other local garage could fix it :happy2: Think my car has its own parking space, lifter and laptop as its been in there that many times for exhaust changes, EMLs and remaps :laugh:
Without the help of the enthusiast tuners/workshops on this forum theres a fair few of us that would have been well and truly stumped by now :happy2:
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Ahh it's nice to know we're all appreciated chaps
Very nice the praise you give us all :smiley:
P.S Got some big irons in the fire at the minute :happy2:
You'll love em all
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Ahh it's nice to know we're all appreciated chaps
Very nice the praise you give us all :smiley:
P.S Got some big irons in the fire at the minute :happy2:
You'll love em all
Come on, give us a clue :wink:
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Soon Dom, ill let you have a go :laugh: