MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: mance23 on July 14, 2012, 09:23:19 pm
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I have been looking about for a new car since I sold my GTI in March and I may have decided on a car but it comes with a DSG box, they sounds good but have the potential to be expensive when they go wrong.
Anyone experienced any problems with one ? :laugh:
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Not meaning to sound unfriendly but I wish I had a pound for every time I've answered this DSG question.
A few, not many, earlier GTI's had Mechatronics Modules failing (me included) but VW worked hard to solve those issues. What's important is to do the DSG Service every 40k miles and, if buying, to check this has been done.
If remapping, the DSG is very strong but if you overdo the torque the DSG box could suffer.
Otherwise, it is human-proof and so the clutches can't get abused by the driver.
It's much more than just an 'automatic' - You can shift gear exactly when you want just when you do with a Manual but with the paddle shifters. It's the best of both worlds in my opinion.
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Maybe just me but I had 2 separate mechatronics issues on a 57 plate repaired under warranty and third was on its way out when I sold the car. I found it OK but nothing special, better than a normal auto but much prefer the manaul. In my own experience I could not recommend one and not just because of the reliability issues.
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Well, DSG will always have those who dislike it and who much prefer Manual. After 100k miles in my DSG GTI I would not buy any car which didn't have DSG or its equivalent system.
I don't think that anyone can say that DSG is better than conventional Manual, nor vica versa, but only that we each have our own preferences. The only way to decide for or against is to drive a DSG car.
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A lot of people will have a personal preference ... mine is DSG for two reasons - first as a daily driver I can drive around town like with the selector in "D" and just not have to worry about the clutch / gear. Secondly, I can then either move the selector to "S"tupendous or "M"anic :rolleye:and drive it like I've just stolen her with all the beenfits of a manual - personal shift point etc but few of the downsides like having to lift off throttle when changing... :driver: however
and this is a big HOWEVER
I recommend you drive both and decide for yourself because it is a personal preference ... :happy2:
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another vote for DSG - i think it's the best of both worlds
also no need to worry about clutches unless you're going for Ferrari-topping power.
but as above, drive them both and see what you prefer.
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Same here another vote for DSG and will probably never have another manual... maybe its an age thing but I love it... Love just effortless wafting away from the lights and the little phraap as it changes gear :smiley: but maybe not for everyone bud try em both and make your choice...
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What I don't understand though is folks who never use the Manual mode in DSG. For enthusiastic driving in 'auto' D-mode it rarely stays in the gear you would want.
S-mode can be pretty manic but useful momentarily while on very busy roundabout junctions.
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My advise would be to the use the Forum search option.... For the answer you seek.
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Manual, every day of the week for me! When I bought my ED30 I drove a few of each and just didn't "feel" it with the DSG. I'm sure if it was everyone flavour, it's all they would build. It's a personnal preference thingy and as everyone else has said, try them both and see!!
Good point about the clutch though, for me if I go to stage 2 I'll upgrade to a Sach or similar and i will still be happy that I'm driving a manual.
:happy2:
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After all the fun and playing around with flappy paddles for a week, you're still going to end up sticking it in D and driving it like an auto. I personally think the manual mode is just a gimmick. You'll never get a proper manual mode with an auto box. Plus you can't engine brake, slip the clutch etc. These are the main reasons why I sold my DSG R32 and got a manual GTI. And they're expensive to fix!
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It's not technically an auto box. It's an automated manual. With a DSG remap you can even get it to hit the rev limiter without changing up, just like a manual.
And you can engine brake, I do it all the time.
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I can accelerate from standstill to almost 60mph and then slot my car straight into 6th gear. Can you do that with a DSG car?
I can see why people like them, but flappy paddle 'boxes just seem really soulless to me...
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I can accelerate from standstill to almost 60mph and then slot my car straight into 6th gear. Can you do that with a DSG car?
yes :happy2:
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I can accelerate from standstill to almost 60mph and then slot my car straight into 6th gear. Can you do that with a DSG car?
I can see why people like them, but flappy paddle 'boxes just seem really soulless to me...
Well.... No. But you know that.
You'd have to accelerate to 60 and then go through the gears 3456 to get to 6th.
Stupid thread leads to stupid arguments... ;-)
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Which answer is correct then? The transmission will only ready 3rd gear if you're accelerating in 2nd, won't it?
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Edit: I now understand what Simon means!!
I really wanted a DSG but I've got a manual now and do not regret it at all. I love having a clutch and being able to blast through the gears or chuck it in 6th at any speed.
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Just realised I missed a bit out. I meant to say I can accelerate from a standstill in 2nd gear and go from 2nd to 6th...
:ashamed:
So the other half of my question is can you pull away in 2nd gear?
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I can accelerate from standstill to almost 60mph and then slot my car straight into 6th gear. Can you do that with a DSG car?
I can see why people like them, but flappy paddle 'boxes just seem really soulless to me...
Well.... No. But you know that.
You'd have to accelerate to 60 and then go through the gears 3456 to get to 6th.
Stupid thread leads to stupid arguments... ;-)
I seem to recall that if you hold the up paddle in it automatically goes from whatever gear you are in straight to 6th. I am sure someone will correct me though as it has been a couple of years since I drove DSG
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^^^doesnt work like that. It's a sequential box, you cannot skip gears
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Just realised I missed a bit out. I meant to say I can accelerate from a standstill in 2nd gear and go from 2nd to 6th...
:ashamed:
So the other half of my question is can you pull away in 2nd gear?
No... You know that ;-)
Why would you want to anyway... Extra clutch wear... Probably not advisable
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After all the fun and playing around with flappy paddles for a week, you're still going to end up sticking it in D and driving it like an auto. I personally think the manual mode is just a gimmick. You'll never get a proper manual mode with an auto box. Plus you can't engine brake, slip the clutch etc. These are the main reasons why I sold my DSG R32 and got a manual GTI. And they're expensive to fix!
....Anyone who only drives their DSG in D-mode all the time isn't what I call a 'driver' and it's very doubtful they are an enthusiast or even enjoy driving. It's stupid not to use all the options which are available to enjoy and suit all kinds of driving circumstances.
It's as sub39h says, you can engine brake. Slipping a clutch will cause excessive wear and damage. Do you like traffic light grand prix? On approved dragstrips you can use DSG's Launch Control if it helps you.
Again, I'm not saying that one system is better than the other - It's personal preference. But DSG and similar systems are far from being a gimmick.
As for expensive to fix, 100k miles on mine with no DSG costs so far - How many clutches would you go through in 100k miles of slipping it regularly? A car is built out of thousands of parts - Anything can fail and they all cost money.
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Just realised I missed a bit out. I meant to say I can accelerate from a standstill in 2nd gear and go from 2nd to 6th...
:ashamed:
So the other half of my question is can you pull away in 2nd gear?
....Why would you want to?
Using torque by doing such things and also skipping cogs straight into 6th uses lots of torque and isn't good for your car. It's also a very lazy and unsafe way of driving - I was taught to always be in the optimal gear in all circumstances so that you can instantly either accelerate faster or have engine braking as well as the brakes. That was a whole day course by a Police instructor in my DSG car on public roads.
The only downside of driving like that is that you use more fuel but it's my natural habit now and I prefer it from a road safety point of view.
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Stupid thread leads to stupid arguments... ;-)
....The DSG vs Manual subject always goes that way :rolleye:
And the original poster only wanted some advice about a DSG car he was thinking of buying!
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Holding the up paddle will return the car to D if you have used the paddles to change gear without flicking to manual. Normally it goes to 5 or 6 as the dsg goes for high gears in D
DSGs aren't a weak point from a failure point of view. I can see why people prefer the manaul, but I prefer the DSG.
If you spend a lot of time in traffic get the Dsg else drive both and then toss a coin. A super heavy clutch would drive me insane.
So the original question dsg is fine buy it
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I have manual and wife has DSG, but I drive her car more than mine. My prefence is manual, although dsg is a close 2nd. Our Dsg box was replaced last year and the car was only 3 months old. I would say try both, but I would never buy a dsg car unless it had a warranty that covererd it.
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I have manual and wife has DSG, but I drive her car more than mine. My prefence is manual, although dsg is a close 2nd. Our Dsg box was replaced last year and the car was only 3 months old. I would say try both, but I would never buy a dsg car unless it had a warranty that covererd it.
....DSG failures get more publicity than Manual gear box problems and clutch failures etc. I wonder how the actual number of failures compare and what percentages of those manufactured.
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I've never heard of a manual giving problems - it seems to be bulletproof.
I have heard of dsg giving problems, but how many millions of vw/Audi/Seat/Skodas are churned out with dsg boxes and I haven't seen Matthew Amroliwala or George Alagiah reporting any sort of global dsg meltdown.
Although if Mishal Husain told me that VW would cease production of the GTI tomorrow I wouldn't care less...you beautiful creature... :drool: :drool:
:love: :love: :love:(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fjj530%2Fprajames%2FMishalHusain.jpg&hash=d3cc463f9536429183a09c10450e0e7a3c9fdb29) :love: :love: :love: :love:
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The DSG was first tested very rigorously indeed on the Audi quattro's in the 1980's(?).
Excuse my ignorance but, lovely as she is, who is Mishal Husain?
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I think if you consider manual failure when clutch slips and needs changing I would say the number of DSG failures will be around the same as manual! But for manual it's considered to be normal wear and tear!
My gti is manual but my wife has DSG and both are lovely in their own way!
Paul
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Just realised I missed a bit out. I meant to say I can accelerate from a standstill in 2nd gear and go from 2nd to 6th...
:ashamed:
So the other half of my question is can you pull away in 2nd gear?
No... You know that ;-)
Why would you want to anyway... Extra clutch wear... Probably not advisable
At least the Dsg clutch will last longer then the manual if you do pull away in 2nd all the time.
Tis abit pointless this thread. There is a wonderful search engine on this forum with sixty gillion threads on the same subject :indifferent:
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Excuse my ignorance but, lovely as she is, who is Mishal Husain?
BBC Newsreader. She's not on much unfortunately, seems to be a kind of summer temp.
When she reads the news I never listen to a word she says, I just sit in a daze. :smiley:
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Stupid thread leads to stupid arguments... ;-)
....The DSG vs Manual subject always goes that way :rolleye:
And the original poster only wanted some advice about a DSG car he was thinking of buying!
Looks like I have opened a can of worms on this subject, :innocent: I think the best thing to do is test it and see if I like it.
Cheers Guys
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I repair more VW manual boxes than ever DSG's
The DSG has very robust internals indeed we've fitted LSD's in many now and do have a good dig around whilst in there agreed some early cars can suffer from mechatronic issues (many have been properly sorted now)
At one time we ran two Ed30 in house demo cars running the same mods both circa 400+ hp (one DSG one manual)
I would sware blind the manual was quicker than the DSG as it always felt more aggressive but run them side by side (which we did quite a lot) and the DSG car would pull out lengths easy every time on the manual
If you have a DSG transmission get it mapped with good software end of !!! You will love it (especially the cannon firing noise WOT shifting on the limiter !! :grin:)
Manual VW / Audi boxes are beautifully fluid and very capable so plz don't think I'm against them cos I'm not, I like them both
IMHO DSG is the future more and more are being developed by all the major car manufacturers full stop :happy2:
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Thanks for sharing your experience, Stevo - That info is very reassuring. :happy2:
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It really is each to their own. I owned a DSG. It broke, I had to pay to get it fixed. I now own a manual which has been fine. I'm aware I'll have to replace the clutch, that comes part and parcel. I just believe that one of the reasons you would choose DSG is because you don't want the expense of clutch changes, etc. so when it does unfortunately break and you do have to pay for it, it leaves a sour taste. As said, this can be with any part of the car, on any vehicle/make. Some people have been lucky and driven these for thousands of miles without failure. Other have had them go on three month old cars.
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I've had my Edition 30 DSG since February and I love it :happy2:
I drive it in Manual mode with the (extended) paddles 99% of the time and use 'D' mode when in heavy traffic - have only used the 'S' mode a couple of times at roundabouts but generally Manual mode is fine at roundabouts too.
As others have said, give both a go and see how you go. Do try to get an extended test drive in a DSG though so that you can get a good feel for the different ways to use the box.
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Second that and much of what RedRobin says. DSG is not necessary better or worse - just different. If you're not accustomed to DSG it does take some time to get used to it - IMO much more than a test drive even if extended. In fact it took me a few months truth be told - maybe I'm a slow learner............!
Extended paddles recently fitted (courtesy of e-bay) - a simple mod that really changes the feel for the better as I now hold the steering wheel properly (from my driving tuition anyway). I now use the paddles 99% of the time after progressing from Auto mode to the semi auto in gearstick mode, as I weened myself off 16 years of conventional manual driving.
The mechatronics worry is always there, but all manner of things 'could' go wrong on a car of this calibre which are just as expensive - it is premium car afterall.
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My advise would be to the use the Forum search option.... For the answer you seek.
Where is this magic search feature oh wise one?
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My advise would be to the use the Forum search option.... For the answer you seek.
Where is this magic search feature oh wise one?
http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=search
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[/quote]I repair more VW manual boxes than ever DSG's
The DSG has very robust internals indeed we've fitted LSD's in many now and do have a good dig around whilst in there agreed some early cars can suffer from mechatronic issues (many have been properly sorted now)
At one time we ran two Ed30 in house demo cars running the same mods both circa 400+ hp (one DSG one manual)
I would sware blind the manual was quicker than the DSG as it always felt more aggressive but run them side by side (which we did quite a lot) and the DSG car would pull out lengths easy every time on the manual
If you have a DSG transmission get it mapped with good software end of !!! You will love it (especially the cannon firing noise WOT shifting on the limiter !! :grin:)
Manual VW / Audi boxes are beautifully fluid and very capable so plz don't think I'm against them cos I'm not, I like them both
IMHO DSG is the future more and more are being developed by all the major car manufacturers full stop :happy2:
I think the DSG box in my car is the only thing that hasn't gone wrong on it. Please don't touch it Steve :signLOL: ( the white ed30 with no power :wink:)
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Ive had my DSG box for three months. I really can't fault it.
The versatility amazes me. Launch control I love. The farts and pops just make me :drool:. I'm yet to remap my car I understand this will make it even better! The manual mode on a good drive is amazing. I don't get to use it as much as I would like due to london traffic :sad1:. On open roads I enjoy the manual mode of DSG more than a full manual car. This is my opinion but I feel I can attack a road so much better and you can engine brake I do it all the time! I can see why some people aren't fans. Given the choice I'd go for manual every time. Take the car for a long test drive. The gear changes should be seamless. There shouldn't be any jolting at all. Use all the modes on the test drive and go up and down the gearbox. Full history is a must!
I personally feel DSG makes the GTI a better car and gives you more options than a manual.
ETA Also if you have a lady next to you one hand can be kept free! :grin:
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Well, DSG will always have those who dislike it and who much prefer Manual. After 100k miles in my DSG GTI I would not buy any car which didn't have DSG or its equivalent system.
I don't think that anyone can say that DSG is better than conventional Manual, nor vica versa, but only that we each have our own preferences. The only way to decide or against is to drive a DSG car.
I quite agree Robin. I really love the feeling of depressing the clutch and moving the gear stick, so it's always going to be manual for me. Like you say, it's all about personal preference, one can only be better than the other for the individual driver concerned. :happy2:
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^^^doesnt work like that. It's a sequential box, you cannot skip gears
You, can't, but the car can. I was driving it in manual this morning in 6th gear, floored the accelerator to activate the kick-down and it shifted straight to 2nd. Accelerated for 2 seconds, lifted off, and it dropped back into 6th gear without a hitch. Bloody beautiful. The DSG is worth it for the *bwarp* noise the car makes in upshifts alone, it's the stuff of dreams.
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@ mesaosi:
You have to have a minimum count of 10 posts before you can use the Search feature.
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I bought a DSG ed30 recently, on the strength of the good things said about it on this forum. I have driven manual cars for 20 years.
I didn't even test-drive it myself, and I am absolutely over the moon with it.
Go for it !
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I bought a DSG ed30 recently, on the strength of the good things said about it on this forum. I have driven manual cars for 20 years.
I didn't even test-drive it myself, and I am absolutely over the moon with it.
Go for it !
....That's very brave! - Goodness knows what you'd think if it turned out you didn't like DSG.
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I bought a DSG ed30 recently, on the strength of the good things said about it on this forum. I have driven manual cars for 20 years.
I didn't even test-drive it myself, and I am absolutely over the moon with it.
Go for it !
....That's very brave! - Goodness knows what you'd think if it turned out you didn't like DSG.
i trusted you guys !
i went out for a test-drive with the guy from the dealer, it was strange really I just had a good feeling about the DSG which proved to be right :wink:
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@ wacky:
You followed your heart - Always a good thing to do :happy2:
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I bought an ED30 DSG from a VW dealer a couple of months back. I made the mistake of not going on a long test drive so when I picked up the car, I noticed it started lurching (severely!) when pulling away after about 30mins+ driving. After searching the problem on Google I found this forum and reading all the posts I pretty much suspected the mechatronics unit was dodgy. Took it back to the dealer and the chap said "mechatronics!" as soon as I described the symptoms. It was all fixed under warranty but I see from the paperwork that VW paid 100% parts and 50% labour to the dealer.
Now it's all fixed it's an absolute joy to drive. I drive it in all the modes depending on what mood I'm in just to mix it up. It's nice to have the options!
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A Warm Welcome to the forum jhoffa esquire! :drinking:
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I've had Edition 30's with both DSG and now with a manual box. The DSG is great fun and if it's working properly gear changes are smooth as silk. It's not as interesting to drive IMO but it's certainly quicker and smoother.
One thing i did note... In the first few weeks of using the car you instinctively go for the clutch pedal and gear lever rather then paddle or just the stick. Few times when pushing on I caught myself at a loss without a gear to snatch and almost got myself in bother :P. By the time it went back though (3 months, various faults) I'd gotten used to it.
Whilst hunting for a new car, again an Ed30 which is still own, I said I'd have either but the missus can't drive an auto and hence a DSG so in the end I've ended up with a manual. To be quite honest I love both it's the overall package of the car the makes it worthwhile not what gearbox is in it ... IMO of course :P ....
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Everyone can drive an auto...
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Everyone can drive an auto...
You can't! :signLOL:
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My mummy has an auto Golf and I'm sure she'd let me have a go in it! :P
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It took my missus almost 3 years to learn to drive. Coordination is not her forte ! Trying to retrain her brain to not press a clutch was too much for it and she freaked out every time she drove it lol. As a consequence she only drove it twice, second time i was in with her and after seeing that she wasn't getting in again !
She's not driven the new one at all :P
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My mum has an auto only license and isn't allowed to drive a manual...
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My mum has an auto only license and isn't allowed to drive a manual...
....Same as my ex-wife:
Who ISN'T your mum, by the way! :wink:
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Can you still get a non DSG auto box on a Golf? If so, that'll be what she has...
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My mum has a Golf Auto, so yes you can :happy2:
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Well I did what everyone was telling me to do and drive one, I tested a Fabia vRS with the 1.4tsi engine and was very impressed with both the DSG box and engine :grin:. I did go to grab for the clutch a few time mind, but safe to say its won me over and I now have the hard choice of picking which car I want out of 3 :driver:
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Glad to hear you got tyhe opportunity to try out DSG. It'll take a little time to know all the combinations while driving so that it's completely natural and fluid, but you'll get over the left foot action very quickly.