MK5 Golf GTI
General => Random Chat => Topic started by: Dp_Ed30 on July 28, 2012, 06:07:26 pm
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need a bit of advise guys. i sold a iPhone 4s on ebay and now the seller is saying i mis sold the item, i don't think i did but want to get your advise before i kick off.
here is the description
Brand new iPhone 4S 64gb 3g in white, unlocked
This iphone is brand new, i bought it a few months ago, it recently developed a fault and was replaced by apple today for a brand new unit.
This is still in the wrapper and thus has no scratches or marks at all.
The charger and power lead have been used.
iPhone is currently running iOS 5.1.1 so can be jail broken.
Relisted due to 5 time wasters. Please only bid if you want to buy
People with 0 feedback must email me before bidding or your bid will be removed
payment by paypal or buyer can collect.
here is what she sent me
Hi.
I went to 02 store to get a micro sim card--they said that there was a password lock on it which they could not open.
I was advised to go to the Apple Store----when I went there I was told that it WAS a reworked phone with only 5 months of the warrantee left that tells me that it was not puchased by you only a couple of months ago as stated in your advert....If this phone had been new as you stated it would have had a full years warrantee on it.They have given me full documentation to back up what I have just said and they also stated that there is no way this phone can be advertised as a NEW phone aslo re your advert. and I would like a full refund please.
As I sent you the money before receiving the phone I would like the same curtesy from you.
If you do not return my payment to me I will be contacting paypal and/or Trading standards.
what do you guys think? no doubt paypal will blame me.
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Have you still got the exchange form/receipt apple make you sign when they exchange phones as this would be proof. Also when they exchange the remaining warranty from the phone they are replacing transfers onto the reconditioned phone they give you
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Just read it was a brand new unit so as long as you've got proof of the exchange and the original purchase of the exchanged unit this will prove the warranty
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The replacement is likely to be a reconditioned unit.
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You dont have choice i am afraid, as soon buyer will open claim, paypal will put your paypal account to minus.
I dont like statement from buyer: As I sent you the money before receiving the phone I would like the same curtesy from you.
I would contact buyer, telling her she can open claim trough paypal, only when phone received refund will be issued. Also warn her when you receive phone, you will check it for any signs of damage or wear and imei match. Only after you satisfied with item returned in same condition when sold, you are happy to issue refund.
Also I would demand to see copy of full documentation to back up what she has said and they also stated that there is no way this phone can be advertised as a NEW phone re your advert.
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Let them claim through paypal, Paypal will put your account into negative, but they won't pay the buyer until they provide payapl with proof of delivery back to you
Do not agree to the refund before receiving the phone back outside of paypal
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i am not willing to take it back, i have paid £50 ebay fee, £12 paypal fee and £10 postage
i also think it could be fraud as she is demanding payment before sending the item back.
would you guys say its fair to say that it is clear that the phone is a replacement from apple, also the 12 month warranty is assumed and was not advertised at any time
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You may not be willing to take it back, but if they raise a dispute through paypal, you will lose. Paypal almost always sticks up for the buyer
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he is asking for money before phone is returned. its a scam.
Tell them refund (they pay postage) and take the phone back.
If i was you i would forget what you have paid thus far and concentrate on getting your phone back.
Where is the person?
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This is the very reason i no longer sell phones on the bay, and any high value item i only deal in face to face.
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I agree with your advert but unfortunately the buyer is obviously stupid and thinks they are hard done by and because of that you will get the money taken off u by PayPal with nothing you can do about it and I don't know if you will ever receive the phone back all they would have to do is send an empty parcel to you and show proof to PayPal and they have the phone and money this may be worst case scenario. Fingers crosses the buyer is just an idiot who doesn't understand what they bought and they will send the phone back to you but either way I would say that you are going to have to give the money back. On the plus side your should get your eBay fee back not sure about the PayPal fee but I would let PayPal deal with the dispute then if they get the money ask PayPal for your fees back. Sorry this has happened hopefully any of this info helps
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he is asking for money before phone is returned. its a scam.
Tell them refund (they pay postage) and take the phone back.
If i was you i would forget what you have paid thus far and concentrate on getting your phone back.
Where is the person?
Paypal will ask them to return the item prior to issuing a refund ...UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES WILL PAYPAL EXPECT YOU TO REFUND PRIOR TO RETURNING THE ITEM!!
I am a very experienced seller/buyer on eBay with 100% feedback feel free t contact me for advice, I have been through several disputes before and know what you can/can't do and what is expected of both the seller and buyer.
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I agree with your advert but unfortunately the buyer is obviously stupid and thinks they are hard done by...
Hang on a second. The advert states that the phone is brand new, and unknown to the seller it is not. How does that make the buyer an idiot? If you put yourself in her shoes and you have found out that you have just bought a phone advertised as new that isn't, you'ld be understandably cautious about returning it and expecting a refund to be honoured. I certainly would.
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Your better taking it back, I wouldn't refund until the item is back and as per the way you sent it. Once recieved refund thats the way it works. Paypal will go the buyers side as its not new. Unfortunately ebay is rife with idiots and fraudsters.
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I agree with your advert but unfortunately the buyer is obviously stupid and thinks they are hard done by...
Hang on a second. The advert states that the phone is brand new, and unknown to the seller it is not. How does that make the buyer an idiot? If you put yourself in her shoes and you have found out that you have just bought a phone advertised as new that isn't, you'ld be understandably cautious about returning it and expecting a refund to be honoured. I certainly would.
The buyer is fully aware that the phone was replaced by apple for a new phone ive had my phone changed 3 times by apple and the phone u get is like brand new nowhere in the add does the guy try to make out it comes with a year warranty or anything like that so the phone is as described in the add
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I would suggest the following as you don't want the phone (seller) and she does (buyer)
Enter into negotiation with her and agree a compromise (A refund of some sort). I would contact apple and ask them what guarantee comes with the brand new unit they gave you. Get this in writing/email . Forward this to the buyer . Paypal will not always support the buyer . Confirm waht the IMEI is from Apple and make sure the one you get back is the same one . *#06# gets the IMEI or in settings .
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I agree with your advert but unfortunately the buyer is obviously stupid and thinks they are hard done by...
Hang on a second. The advert states that the phone is brand new, and unknown to the seller it is not. How does that make the buyer an idiot? If you put yourself in her shoes and you have found out that you have just bought a phone advertised as new that isn't, you'ld be understandably cautious about returning it and expecting a refund to be honoured. I certainly would.
The buyer is fully aware that the phone was replaced by apple for a new phone ive had my phone changed 3 times by apple and the phone u get is like brand new nowhere in the add does the guy try to make out it comes with a year warranty or anything like that so the phone is as described in the add
The important point here is that it isn't new though. I have also had a warranty replacement from Apple. They're not up front about them being reconditioned units, but that's exactly what they are. I don't think it's unfair that the buyer expected a brand new phone, not one with mileage on it already. Saying that it's clear the seller wasn't trying to deceive anyone.
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the phone was 100% brand new, the guy took it out of a retail box as i kicked off that a recon replacement was not available ( being a 64gb they don't hold huge stocks) the warranty is were she is annoyed as apple will only honour the warranty from my date of purchase regardless what they replaced it with, the buyer assumed it had 12months it was never implied in anyway.
a paypal dispute has been raised tonight so i will let them take care of it. if i can't get the phone back il deal with it via a road trip
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the phone was 100% brand new, the guy took it out of a retail box as i kicked off that a recon replacement was not available...
In light of that it sounds like she's trying to scam you. There's no reason why it shouldn't work with O2, and there was no mention of remaining warranty in the advert.
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he is asking for money before phone is returned. its a scam.
Tell them refund (they pay postage) and take the phone back.
If i was you i would forget what you have paid thus far and concentrate on getting your phone back.
Where is the person?
Paypal will ask them to return the item prior to issuing a refund ...UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES WILL PAYPAL EXPECT YOU TO REFUND PRIOR TO RETURNING THE ITEM!!
X2 Don't return anything until you have the phone back with you and ensure it is the same phone you posted out as well .You will receive your fees back postage will be a loss I'm afraid but that will be 10 lost and the time wasted , So many twits on Bay now I hardly ever use it .
I am a very experienced seller/buyer on eBay with 100% feedback feel free t contact me for advice, I have been through several disputes before and know what you can/can't do and what is expected of both the seller and buyer.
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Being an experienced eBay seller, this is what I would do.
The eBay listing and final value fee is gone, you can't get that back.
The postage money is gone, can't get that back either.
The PayPal fee will be refunded when you refund the buyer.
Do not send any refund just yet.
When you return an item to apple and they replace it, whether it's a refurb or a new item, they do not give you another full year of warranty. If this was the case people would return phones all the time and their warranties would always be valid. It just doesn't work this way with electronic items.
You probably had 5 months warranty remaining from the ORIGINAL purchase date, hence this transfers onto the new phone.
Did you keep a record of the IMEI number?
If so, contact Apple and ensure the phone is no longer blocked etc.
Did you list the phone as new? If so, this was your first issue.
The phone should be listed as a replacement, and therefore it is AS NEW. By saying it like this you do not let the buyer assume its new with full warranty.
When someone buys something from the net they have 14 days to return it, unless it was an auction and not a BIN.
If th eBuyer processes a PayPal dispute, she will win. No doubt about it. PayPal always side with the buyer. A major flaw with PayPal.
However, when a dispute is opened the funds will be held from your account, even if this means placing your account into a negative balance. The funds do not go straight to the buyer though.
The buyer will need to send you the item first with proof of delivery. Once she can prove the item was delivered to you, the refund will be processed.
You do not need to refund her postage costs, just the original amount she paid.
Make sure you check the item over, along with the IMEI number to ensure it hasn't been swapped etc before processing the refund.
You could always delay things even more for the buyer by claiming the phone has a mark on it to see what paypal do! Lol
If you paypal account goes into a negative balance you will need to clear it.
If you ignore it and don't use PayPal again, they have been known to get the bailiffs out, even for small amounts.
Unfortunately this is how it is with eBay. It's very one sided and the buyer always wins. They then have the cheek to allow the buyer to leave negative, and the seller can only leave positive or nothing at all!
I use GumTree for higher value items if I can so we can meet face to face. No fees. No fuss. eBay is a last resort with such items.
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Prepare yourself for a road trip dude.
Feel for you.
This is why negative needs to come back for buyers.
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The ad says bought a few months ago but the 5 months warranty remaining suggests it was 7 months ago you originally bought the first phone. So if I was the buyer I'd be thinking I'm 4 months short of warranty (I read a few as 3)
I'd look to get proof it was a new not re-conditioned unit, work out what 4 months of warranty is worth and sort out what the password lock issue is. Then offer the seller the cost of 4 months warrenty back.
Personally I'd be in the "be nice" phase of discussion.
The buyer bought brand new phone expecting 12 or 9 months warranty, O2 have messed up the sim, apple have said it's a re con unit and the warranty is 5 months. That's a bad day from her side.
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Being an experienced eBay seller, this is what I would do.
The eBay listing and final value fee is gone, you can't get that back.
Listing fee gone, but if buyer returns item/opens case and returns item you will get final value fee back
The postage money is gone, can't get that back either.
The PayPal fee will be refunded when you refund the buyer. Not all of it, paypal will keep some of it to "Cover their expenses"
Do not send any refund just yet. NEVER refund until item has been received, scallies make a living theiving from sellers on Ebay
When you return an item to apple and they replace it, whether it's a refurb or a new item, they do not give you another full year of warranty. If this was the case people would return phones all the time and their warranties would always be valid. It just doesn't work this way with electronic items.
You probably had 5 months warranty remaining from the ORIGINAL purchase date, hence this transfers onto the new phone.
Did you keep a record of the IMEI number?
If so, contact Apple and ensure the phone is no longer blocked etc.
If th eBayer processes a PayPal dispute, she will win. No doubt about it. PayPal always side with the buyer. A major flaw with PayPal.
However, when a dispute is opened the funds will be held from your account, even if this means placing your account into a negative balance. The funds do not go straight to the buyer though.
The buyer will need to send you the item first with proof of delivery. Once she can prove the item was delivered to you, the refund will be processed.
You do not need to refund her postage costs, just the original amount she paid.
Make sure you check the item over, along with the IMEI number to ensure it hasn't been swapped etc before processing the refund. Even if she has sent back a different phone, paypal will refud her anyway if she provides tracking as paypal are only concerned with tracking numbers
You could always delay things even more for the buyer by claiming the phone has a mark on it to see what paypal do! Lol they do nothing about it except refund buyer
If you paypal account goes into a negative balance you will need to clear it. or open a new account :grin:
If you ignore it and don't use PayPal again, they have been known to get the bailiffs out, even for small amounts.
Unfortunately this is how it is with eBay. It's very one sided and the buyer always wins. They then have the cheek to allow the buyer to leave negative, and the seller can only leave positive or nothing at all! Ebay and paypal are well aware of the issues and after 2 years of complaining they are actually partially addressing it in september with changes
I use GumTree for higher value items if I can so we can meet face to face. No fees. No fuss. eBay is a last resort with such items.
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a few more updates on this. The buyer has raised a ebay dispute but is refusing to me and them to return the item untill she recieves the money back :rolleye:
some of the responses are getting funny
"at this moment I owe you nothing--you have my money-I have your phone--so go ahead and send recovery agent it will just cost you money.If situation is not resolved ie money back in my account. within 24hrs I am going to contact watchdog (TV show)and you will be shown up for what you are."
Buyer's message:
"seller told me that PAYPAL had taken the money back from him--I am awaiting the money to be replaced into my account.Seller expected cash before they posted phone to me--I expect the same curtesy- I have requested from the Seller the return name and address-phone is packed and ready to be sent back as soon as the funds are returned to my account."
Buyer's message:
"I have just taken advice FROM LOWELL and they suggest I go to the POLICE and lay a formal complain against you if the money is not back in my account within 24hrs."
i have got to the point were i am fed up and just agreed to a refund but she is being a PITA refusing to send it back untill she has the funds.
anybody got any advise on how to resolve this asap
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Just keep replying and stick to your guns, without returning the item PayPal will not issue a refund. If she doesnt return it within the time frame both eBay and Paypal will find in your favour.
It's up to her now, she is talking boll*x about legal advise and the police etc.
Stick it out fella!!
Oh and if she returns an empty box or somethign esle and says its the phone PayPal may issue her a refund, don't panic!! Simply contact them and tell them this, they will then refund you your money. this happened to me with an eBayer and i had no problem getting them to refund me the refund!!
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i am trying a diffrent route atm.
i have told her i will issuse her a full refund today but i cant do so when the dispute is active. I have asked her to close it down if she complies she will not be about to re open it.
lets hope she is as stupid as she sounds.
if not i just leave it for ebay to sort it, yes it will take months but im fed up now :fighting:
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If your going to refund her without getting the item back first you are asking for trouble mate!!
You will NOT be covered by eBay or PayPal if you do that.
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If your going to refund her without getting the item back first you are asking for trouble mate!!
You will NOT be covered by eBay or PayPal if you do that.
im not rely going to refund her, if she agrees to close the dispute paypal will unlock the £ and she will loose the ability to file another claim :happy2:
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request denined, guess ebay will have to take care of it.
is there anyway to speed up the process
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She'll be after a substantial discount on the price paid - this is the reason I no longer sell electrical stuff on eBay due to the amount of chancers that know how the Paypal system works.
Whatever communication you have, do it via the dispute messages. Also put out there some reasonable solutions that makes her look unreasonable should it get properly investigated.
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request denined, guess ebay will have to take care of it.
is there anyway to speed up the process
You can try calling eBay and once in a while they will immediately escalate the case if they feel the other party are being unrealistic and/or unreasonable. Always stay calm and polite if you call eBay, they are very good and spotting potential rogues, i have no doubt they will see straight through this one with the evidence. They can access the messages sent to/from and see what the score is.
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The money before return is nonsense. You buy something there is a problem you send it back then you get your money.
Police won't care as it's a civil matter and I very much doubt watchdog will either.
I bought what I thought was a new phone and it turns out it is but with less warranty isn't much of a story. Besides watchdog need to keep their benefit cheat heads down for a bit ;-)
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:happy2:
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Ebay will not do anything until she provides tracking for the returned item and when she does return it, feel free to pop up to your local police station and have a copper witness you opening the box (I did this once before), if its empty report the crime as fraud, get your crime ref number and a print out and send it to paypal they will deal with her then.
As for requesting refund before return :signLOL: :signLOL: :signLOL: do one love!!!!! :P
Just keep your messages nice and state quite clearly that once returned refund will be issued, until then there is nothing you can/will do about it.
If there are no messages written on the dispute for 10-15 days it automatically gets closed by Ebay and your money returned to you.
I had an Aussie guy claim for a "Damaged item" wanting a partial refund (He wanted £100 back on a £200 item), asked for pictures for proof of damage, he sent me pictures for a different item, quick call to paypal and case closed.
Also if she threatens you with negative feedback unless you comply then thats for Ebay to remove after she leaves it (just did one this morning for my fathers account, guy left neg feedback and the guy was demanding money back for delivered item (Tracking proved delivery) and says he will agree to change feedback when he gets his refund :signLOL:, thanks Mr German con-man you just threatened feedback extortion, Ebay can remove that for me now :happy2: (Which they did in 2 minutes).
Quick follow up email to buyer stating feedback removed, ebay and paypal informed, your blocked form buying and Ebay are aware of your ISP, any further attempts to do this will result in removal from Ebay.
Stick with what people are telling you and remind her that Marks and Spencer don't give a refund until the item has been returned :signLOL: :signLOL: