MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: gazon69 on July 29, 2012, 08:32:49 pm
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Well, thought it was about time i fitted my a.p's that have been sat in my shed for the last six months. Set about fitting them up yesterday at around 9am in the morning. Took off the standard calipers then fitted up the new ones. I test fitted them first as when i bought them i was told i would need to run at least a 6mm spacer over these. Just thought i would try the monza's over them and "voila" no spacers and fitted up perfect.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1183.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fx463%2Fgazon69%2F85016216.jpg&hash=e9851bd4c22842c913e033f794a606b8d601c821)
Anyways went about bolting the drivers side in place and set about taking off the old calipers and hoses. I thought i would give the new calipers a quick bleed as i was replacing the whole fluid for new 5.1 anyways. To my despair the caliper would not bleed up for love nor money. :scared:. Had i bought duffers was what i was thinking at the time. I disconected the brake line from the caliper and fluid was coming through so there was no problem there. Anyways decided to take the whole caliper off and give a quick inspection to. Looking down the thread where the hose went into the port where the fluid went into the caliper was in the wall of the thread and not in the base, so what was happening was when i was tightening up the hose the
nipple was going right to the bottom and blocking off the flow of the fluid, alas wrong hoses were supplied with the calipers. Well with all the breaking system in bits there was no way i was putting back on the crappy standards after teasing myself with the test fit. Off i went in search of trying to find someone who could supply correct hoses on a saturday afternoon, after searching for 2 hrs i finally found a guy who supplied me all of the bits to make up my own hoses. After around 4-5hrs of what should have been a 2hr job max i finally got the fronts fitted up, so now down to replacing the whole fluid and bleeding the entire system, sounds a straight forward enough job, not in my case. As i went to bleed up the n/s rear i opened the bleed nipple to find that the damn thing had sheared the thread inside the caliper. :confused:. Well it was turning out to be a total nightmare. I got on the phone to statllers who just so happened to have a spare in, (cheers steve your a life saver) :signLOL: good thing i only live a mile away, fitted it up and eventually got it all bled up and back together for around 6pm. After an almighty back and arse ache im glad they look the shizzle. Not had chance to really test them yet as they need bedding in. Will keep ya'll posted on how they feel. Couple of pics for ya and i'll shut up now :signLOL:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1183.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fx463%2Fgazon69%2F9ffe2401.jpg&hash=2eca4e388d8c1a19418ab6d7a300fd6ddf4b30dc)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1183.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fx463%2Fgazon69%2F8d687709.jpg&hash=687f55655f34a555c7f83cf95950873cd091c9ba)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1183.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fx463%2Fgazon69%2F773a96cc.jpg&hash=76e0ed7020d4c0d12eed063ddae41799975626bc)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1183.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fx463%2Fgazon69%2Fb3baa07f.jpg&hash=e6bb2c79e1ffb5481a6ab271b955bf70a5558c29)
Should look great once the new rims arrive :evilgrin:
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Cracking looking kit :smiley:
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Cheers Mike. Ye well worth the 10hrs to fit just for looks. :signLOL:
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Very nice indeed Gary, don't think you'll be able to get away without her indoors noticing though Bro hah!! :
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Already have mate, she's been out in it today and never batted an eyelid :signLOL:
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Already have mate, she's been out in it today and never batted an eyelid :signLOL:
Wicked then WM next It is ! :wink:
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Awesome Gaz :drool:
Well jel :ashamed:
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Already have mate, she's been out in it today and never batted an eyelid :signLOL:
Wicked then WM next It is ! :wink:
Oh yes, she's away next saturday so may just have to slip it on then :evilgrin:
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Went to work this morning and because most of my trip is bypasses i was able to get my footdown a little. To say these brakes are good is an understatement. They are immense, yet still have an oem pedal feel, superb bit of kit, probably one of my favorite upgrades on the car to date. I can now leave braking a lot later knowing i have the security that these things are now going to stop me when i want them to. Track days are calling :evilgrin:
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Went to work this morning and because most of my trip is bypasses i was able to get my footdown a little. To say these brakes are good is an understatement. They are immense, yet still have an oem pedal feel, superb bit of kit, probably one of my favorite upgrades on the car to date. I can now leave braking a lot later knowing i have the security that these things are now going to stop me when i want them to. Track days are calling :evilgrin:
Did you notice increased pedal feel / stopping power? When I fitted mine BBK I was a bit disappointed as expected something different. The stock brakes are good enough to block the wheels. What's missing is pedal feel this is where BBK is great. Also the BBK won;t feel soft after a couple of spirited breaking but that's something you wouldn;t really test on road
Paul
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^^^^^^ hi mate, yes deffo better stopping power but some unusual reason pedal feels very oem for some strange reason. Like you say, i was expecting these really throwing me through the front screen but not so. My bro in law had s3's on his ed30 and one dab on those and you really was lurching towards the screen. Tbh im not disappointed in any way at all as i like the feel. They just give me the extra security knowing there not going to just fade away like the oem ones did. Scary sh*t those on a k04 2+ car :scared:
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Just to confirm what you experienced with the treads in the rear calipers, I tried to change my blue 310mm rear calipers to find one tread in the first caliper was bad, then i looked at the red ones i had bought used refurbed, and at the time one tread was bad (recently trying to fit it for the second time the other turned out to be bad)
As i had a second go recently as mentioned before the 2 tread in the rear NS couldn't hold pressure, so now i have one red and one black rear (Had to borrow of a friend) while i get 2 blue and one red helicoiled :fighting:
FYI anyone about to tamper with their rears from now on, cars being the age they are, has to take this issue in account. :sad1:
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Looks really nice,
How much does this upgrade cost?
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got the same impressions as you, but now I know that on sports car you have to really push the pedal hard for brakes as this gives you great adjustability and feel and not on/off action if the bite was very hard initially with just a light push
Paul
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Just to confirm what you experienced with the treads in the rear calipers, I tried to change my blue 310mm rear calipers to find one tread in the first caliper was bad, then i looked at the red ones i had bought used refurbed, and at the time one tread was bad (recently trying to fit it for the second time the other turned out to be bad)
As i had a second go recently as mentioned before the 2 tread in the rear NS couldn't hold pressure, so now i have one red and one black rear (Had to borrow of a friend) while i get 2 blue and one red helicoiled :fighting:
FYI anyone about to tamper with their rears from now on, cars being the age they are, has to take this issue in account. :sad1:
Tbh with you mate my car has done 79k and i dont think the nipples on the rear calipers have been touched at any point. The one that steve supplied me looked almost brand new so happy days, as you said though if i was going to attempt doing the rears again then i would deffo buy a spare set and get them refurbed first.
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Looks really nice,
How much does this upgrade cost?
Cost me about £1100 and that was cheap as the calipers are 2nd hand but had been fully rebuilt by daveb on here, then there is fitting if you aren't up to doing them yourself.
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got the same impressions as you, but now I know that on sports car you have to really push the pedal hard for brakes as this gives you great adjustability and feel and not on/off action if the bite was very hard initially with just a light push
Paul
Yes mate as said pedal feel is exceptional and when pressed hard they do launch you forward. :happy2:
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What people tend to forget is that setups like these are for continual hard braking(read track work) over just your average driving. If you want big brakes for road go S3/R32/Cupra setups, go for these if you either like wasting money, money to burn or are going to track. IMHO
Fish
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What people tend to forget is that setups like these are for continual hard braking(read track work) over just your average driving. If you want big brakes for road go S3/R32/Cupra setups, go for these if you either like wasting money, money to burn or are going to track. IMHO
Fish
Yep, money to burn :signLOL: cant take it with ya.
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Looks really nice,
How much does this upgrade cost?
Cost me about £1100 and that was cheap as the calipers are 2nd hand but had been fully rebuilt by daveb on here, then there is fitting if you aren't up to doing them yourself.
Is this an off-the-shelf kit that you just bought second hand (ie like Redrobin has)? or is it a mix and match?
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What people tend to forget is that setups like these are for continual hard braking(read track work) over just your average driving. If you want big brakes for road go S3/R32/Cupra setups, go for these if you either like wasting money, money to burn or are going to track. IMHO
Fish
Whilst I'd agree in a lot of cases big brakes are fitted to these cars just for vanity, a kit like this isn't just going to be beneficial for track use. IIRC the AP setup with ally calipers and bells saves 4 kg per side in unsprung weight so you'll probably see a benefit in terms of ride quality and handling as well as the obvious brake fade resistance.
Also on my car (vRS wagon) when it's fully loaded with 4 people and luggage a few stops from high speed will put a lot more energy in to the stoppers vs. say a lighly loaded golf so I wouldn't consider a brake upgrade on my car to be burning money. (wife might disagree lol!).
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What people tend to forget is that setups like these are for continual hard braking(read track work) over just your average driving. If you want big brakes for road go S3/R32/Cupra setups, go for these if you either like wasting money, money to burn or are going to track. IMHO
Fish
Whilst I'd agree in a lot of cases big brakes are fitted to these cars just for vanity, a kit like this isn't just going to be beneficial for track use. IIRC the AP setup with ally calipers and bells saves 4 kg per side in unsprung weight so you'll probably see a benefit in terms of ride quality and handling as well as the obvious brake fade resistance.
Also on my car (vRS wagon) when it's fully loaded with 4 people and luggage a few stops from high speed will put a lot more energy in to the stoppers vs. say a lighly loaded golf so I wouldn't consider a brake upgrade on my car to be burning money. (wife might disagree lol!).
Once the o.z's arrive that should change the driving characteristics of the car immensely. Was joking when i said i had bought them coz i had money to burn. I bought them because i hate the s3's as i think they are too snatchy for my likings and also hate the look of the s3's. Admittedly these do give that bit of bling but tbh i dont think you can compromise my safety and my familys safety in any instances. P.s they are bedding in really nicely now.
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Also on my car (vRS wagon) when it's fully loaded with 4 people and luggage a few stops from high speed will put a lot more energy in to the stoppers vs. say a lighly loaded golf so I wouldn't consider a brake upgrade on my car to be burning money. (wife might disagree lol!).
So I take it you go 4 up with luggage then track daying? Dont get me wrong, but if you're not then this is might read as you're either driving too close to the car in front or have no regard for your passengers safety. Even stock brakes will deal easily with repeated motorway stops.
Fish
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Fish
Find two motorway junctions close together do a couple of repeated stops from a very achievable three figure speed in a Mk5 you will find yourself pushing harder on the second one and harder still on the third.
There's a reduction in efficiency on single piston calipers when not fully serviced or with worn pads.
OEM pads also do not cover a range of temperatures that allow for repeated stops from high speeds
The brakes as they left the factory are slowly getting worse and worse with every mile covered.
When was the last time somebody asked for a caliper service?
Four piston opposed calipers are fixed.... pedal pressure is supplied to the pads directly there's no pressure used in moving half the caliper, more importantly it doesn't degrade generally with age/mileage
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Dave, as you currently know my upgrade plans you know where I'm heading, but you're talking about repeated hard stopping requests being made on a system that was never really designed for it. I do have a 'test track' which is dual carriage way national speed limit, where at very early hours of the morning I go and test any upgrades that I make. One direction is also downhill so that really does get some heat into them. Good setups for road/fast road isn't that far from the stock setup, here we're talking about someone making a comment about making repeated hard stops with passengers and luggage. :scared:
Fish
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It was just the comment about stock brakes being able to handle repeated motorway stops and that's just not the case.
You'd need additional ducting on the stock pads for that at which point they're not stock anymore by definition.
Im a great believer in horses for courses, my brakes on my Mk5 and rocco were standard despite people expecting me to turn up with 400mm ceramics. Just never drove that fast in fairness and when I did have a blat was always wary of the OEM stock brakes limits which isn't much
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Also on my car (vRS wagon) when it's fully loaded with 4 people and luggage a few stops from high speed will put a lot more energy in to the stoppers vs. say a lighly loaded golf so I wouldn't consider a brake upgrade on my car to be burning money. (wife might disagree lol!).
So I take it you go 4 up with luggage then track daying? Dont get me wrong, but if you're not then this is might read as you're either driving too close to the car in front or have no regard for your passengers safety. Even stock brakes will deal easily with repeated motorway stops.
Fish
Dude- are you deliberately trying to provoke me?
I regularly take the family on holiday in my car, so 4-up plus luggage, roof box etc. Drive in Snowdonia or across europe, south of france, alps etc and you'll have many situations where you're pushing the brakes harder to stop.
To extrapolate from my post that I'm driving too close and have no regard for my passegers safety is both bizarre and insulting.
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Will these fit under 17" with no spacer?
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Nice looking kit, v impressive, has it made any difference to brake stability, with the increased size of front over the rear? also master cylinder no need to change it i assume it's man enough?
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Will these fit under 17" with no spacer?
....If this is the same size kit which AP fiited on mine, then yes. AP used my car to test the fit:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fb308%2FRedRobin_05%2FAP_Brake_17s_1.jpg&hash=94377ca46ef4242d9c81291efb64621606343b6f)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fb308%2FRedRobin_05%2FAP_Brake2.jpg&hash=1a09537bd3f6eec8972025a3e58a8235dbe2bfb9)
Mighty fine brakes - Very even and progressive feel, powerful without any snatching, and even better balanced when S3/R32 OEM brakes are fitted to the rear (Mk5 GTI).
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The fact these brakes fit under 17" stock wheels make them them an appealing upgrade.
What are the dust / weather seals like on these?
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Right, done a few miles with the brakes now and all i can say is wow. The more i seem to be using them the better they are getting. Pedal feel is exceptional very oem like but once pressed hard, more than capable of stopping you at good speeds. Low dust levels up to now, probably better than the pads that were on before. With the hardware that is on my car now i fancy doing a track day just to put them through their paces properly. I will do another update probably in about another week. :happy2:
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Will these fit under 17" with no spacer?
....If this is the same size kit which AP fiited on mine, then yes. AP used my car to test the fit:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fb308%2FRedRobin_05%2FAP_Brake_17s_1.jpg&hash=94377ca46ef4242d9c81291efb64621606343b6f)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fb308%2FRedRobin_05%2FAP_Brake2.jpg&hash=1a09537bd3f6eec8972025a3e58a8235dbe2bfb9)
Mighty fine brakes - Very even and progressive feel, powerful without any snatching, and even better balanced when S3/R32 OEM brakes are fitted to the rear (Mk5 GTI).
Can you please tell me what are the codes for calipers and discs?
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The fact these brakes fit under 17" stock wheels make them them an appealing upgrade.
What are the dust / weather seals like on these?
+1
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The fact these brakes fit under 17" stock wheels make them them an appealing upgrade.
What are the dust / weather seals like on these?
....Over 80,000 miles since 2006 on mine without issue.
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Can you please tell me what are the codes for calipers and discs?
....My AP kit # is CP5200-1056 but the newer version which gazon has fitted will probably be a different #.
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The fact these brakes fit under 17" stock wheels make them them an appealing upgrade.
What are the dust / weather seals like on these?
....Over 80,000 miles since 2006 on mine without issue.
have you ever had yours rebuilt robin or serviced. If not i suppose thats an added bonus
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RedRobin is this your kit? http://www.apracing.com/product_details/road_car_upgrades/formula_big_brake_kits/vw/golf_mk5_gti_and_tdi-front_4_piston_kit_cp5200-1056.aspx
Here at specification states that only 18" & 19" fit.
@gazon Do you know if it's the same part number of the caliper?
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Not sure of the part no as this wasn't advertised in the sale thread and as said, they have been sat in my garden shed for the last 6months, sorry i cant help with any more info, the best person to ask would be daveb, he sent them to me, they purchased from brian "gobbleplease" hth
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RedRobin is this your kit? http://www.apracing.com/product_details/road_car_upgrades/formula_big_brake_kits/vw/golf_mk5_gti_and_tdi-front_4_piston_kit_cp5200-1056.aspx
Here at specification states that only 18" & 19" fit.
....That is my kit and the reason I have it is because AP invited me to let them have my car specifically to test if this kit would fit OEM Monza 17's because they wanted that market. Would you believe that VW wouldn't supply them a Monza!
It does fit! - I ran the AP kit under my Monza 17's while my Monza 18's were being refurb'd and powdercoated. It is a tight clearance though.
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....Over 80,000 miles since 2006 on mine without issue.
have you ever had yours rebuilt robin or serviced. If not i suppose thats an added bonus
....Neither rebuilt nor serviced so far - Only new discs and pads (originally supplied with DS2500's and now AP's own pads).
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Now I need to source one up! :happy2:
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^^^^
One thing which should be double-checked before buying is whether gazon's AP kit is the same as mine or rather whether it has any changes in dimensions anywhere.
I suggest finding out gazon's AP kit # and seeing if it's different to mine (posted earlier) and then contact AP to see if any dimensional changes. If forum Brake Guru DaveB is around, he might know.
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I've sent a couple of PM's to Dave, but didn't answer.
I thing gazon got his brakes from here http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,41286.0.html
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^^^^
Dave (the Brake Guru) is often away flying and also has his hands full when at home with twin babies. But I'm sure he'll answer your PM when he can.
It'll probably help him to help you if you PM him a link to this thread. Dave is always a very helpful chap :happy2:
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I've sent a couple of PM's to Dave, but didn't answer.
I thing gazon got his brakes from here http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,41286.0.html
Yes mate, there the ones i purchased. :happy2:
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What pads you running Gaz??
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....Over 80,000 miles since 2006 on mine without issue.
have you ever had yours rebuilt robin or serviced. If not i suppose thats an added bonus
....Neither rebuilt nor serviced so far - Only new discs and pads (originally supplied with DS2500's and now AP's own pads).
This thread explains the type of seals used:
http://passionford.com/forum/general-car-related-discussion/41052-answer-from-ap-racing-about-dust-seals.html
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Dave answered and.... :jumping: :jumpmove: :party:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fz352%2Fdrsilviuro%2F_MG_4192.jpg&hash=f6e3ca065d7180c6bd7585149e76add420bb76f2)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fz352%2Fdrsilviuro%2F_MG_4212.jpg&hash=6b1c605bc05b914d50fb469f224e89e19c1ee7b4)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fz352%2Fdrsilviuro%2F_MG_4216.jpg&hash=2fd95437dff9f0ee8c5c88abf24480e73683d950)
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How much did you get them for mate ?
Pm me if you don't want to broadcast it
Ta
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We got there in the end!
had three of these kits that I've just job lotted to Benjamina at Shark, I think retail for the CP5200-1056 is about £1720 plus VAT now which to be honest isn't great value, epic brakes on a stage 2/2+ Gti and they weigh about the same as a bag of maltesers.
Think Bens doing them for £1680 inc VAT plus pads plus fitting at his place mahoosive choice of pads
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fw69%2Fdave_brown1970%2F44880f1127f15913a9ba005e22799e85.jpg&hash=b71d2a4538653bfd5a5537b7ea39be3050add18f)
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We got there in the end!
had three of these kits that I've just job lotted to Benjamina at Shark, I think retail for the CP5200-1056 is about £1720 plus VAT now which to be honest isn't great value, epic brakes on a stage 2/2+ Gti and they weigh about the same as a bag of maltesers.
Think Bens doing them for £1680 inc VAT plus pads plus fitting at his place mahoosive choice of pads
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fw69%2Fdave_brown1970%2F44880f1127f15913a9ba005e22799e85.jpg&hash=b71d2a4538653bfd5a5537b7ea39be3050add18f)
dave, mine is now k04 hybrid and it stops no problem with these. Phenominal brake for what i paid :happy2:
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Nice kit, well done to Shark for putting it together.
Fish
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I've been running AP's CP5200 kit since 2006 and can't fault them for fast road use and occasional trackday use. I now use AP's own pads.
I also have S3 rear brakes (supplied by DaveB) and this delivers extremely well-balanced and powerful brakes on the Mk5 GTI.
What has Shark done? Just put a sticker on them?
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I've been running AP's CP5200 kit since 2006 and can't fault them for fast road use and occasional trackday use. I now use AP's own pads.
I also have S3 rear brakes (supplied by DaveB) and this delivers extremely well-balanced and powerful brakes on the Mk5 GTI.
What has Shark done? Just put a sticker on them?
very much looks like that Robin
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Nothing is straight forward with you Gaz I only popped round after work when you were fitting these and ended up at yours all day :confused: good job I was tho otherwise you might have ended up with them on back to front or something :grin:
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I've been running AP's CP5200 kit since 2006 and can't fault them for fast road use and occasional trackday use. I now use AP's own pads.
I also have S3 rear brakes (supplied by DaveB) and this delivers extremely well-balanced and powerful brakes on the Mk5 GTI.
What has Shark done? Just put a sticker on them?
Bit more to it than that Robin....
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I've been running AP's CP5200 kit since 2006 and can't fault them for fast road use and occasional trackday use. I now use AP's own pads.
I also have S3 rear brakes (supplied by DaveB) and this delivers extremely well-balanced and powerful brakes on the Mk5 GTI.
What has Shark done? Just put a sticker on them?
Bit more to it than that Robin....
....And the bit more is? :popcornsoda: - I'm curious to learn. :smiley:
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w/o brake pads
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2FFacebook%2FAP_racing%2F615980_514872638523006_309027343_o.jpg&hash=91f026c171a2198f5b17792d78c97e3af85bf7bb)
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^^^^
My AP's including pads, are 10.5 Kg on professionally certified (every year) scales.
OEM are over 15 kg.
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:jumping: :jumping:
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fz352%2Fdrsilviuro%2F680534_520540037956266_2121909724_o.jpg&hash=02a45046aa59fc8b866c4f052f4cc7e0e79b622b)
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(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.tapatalk.com%2Fd%2F12%2F11%2F12%2Fjudy2a6u.jpg&hash=82c66a586fb551bc953b97201c28f73b3a3e1556)
this is on OEM 17" et56 wheels (audi a3) with 5 mm spacer.
5
They'll fit without spacer but to close for my comfort.
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Awesome brakes mate. I absolutely love mine and rate them as one of my best mods i've done. Stop my car no problem no matter what i throw at them.