MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: pd9264 on August 16, 2012, 06:08:39 pm
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im thoinking of doing the ko4 conversion on my gti. at the moment im at st2+ revo on ko3. and that seems to be pushing it on traction. so whats it like with around 340bhp. does the car manage it well or is it an animal and just spins. cheers
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All depends on how its mapped. I am now on a k04 at 2+ and the car ran 340hp on the dyno, tbh the car is far more manageable now than it was before at 2+ k03 as power at peak was through the midrange and started to die off at around 6k rpm . Now it just flies round to 7.5k rpm. Still an animal in the wet though. I dont even bother when the roads are damp now.
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klass! pure animal :happy2: it just wants to keep going :party:
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All depends on how its mapped. I am now on a k04 at 2+ and the car ran 340hp on the dyno, tbh the car is far more manageable now than it was before at 2+ k03 as power at peak was through the midrange and started to die off at around 6k rpm . Now it just flies round to 7.5k rpm. Still an animal in the wet though. I dont even bother when the roads are damp now.
But isn't your k04 a hybrid version so top end will be different vs standard.
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Ah yes, i do keep forgeting :signLOL:
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What work did you do for the hybrid :drool: & who carried the work out for you Gaz
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But isn't your k04 a hybrid version so top end will be different vs standard.
Ah yes, i do keep forgeting :signLOL:
....@ bacillus:
On one hand it sometimes worries me how much you know about each of our individual cars! On the other hand I (and I'm sure others too) am very grateful that you do! :laugh: :happy2:
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What work did you do for the hybrid :drool: & who carried the work out for you Gaz
Steve jr down at statllers did all of the sourcing and work on my car mate. Very useable as well
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Personally i wouldn't swap. The k03 is so much more fun on UK roads. The k04 just isn't as nippy lower down the rev's.
Obviously once the k04 gets legs its very quick but by then your going too fast imo.
I think if you track the car then k04 yes
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Personally i wouldn't swap. The k03 is so much more fun on UK roads. The k04 just isn't as nippy lower down the rev's.
Obviously once the k04 gets legs its very quick but by then your going too fast imo.
I think if you track the car then k04 yes
as the man said in a nut shel
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Personally i wouldn't swap. The k03 is so much more fun on UK roads. The k04 just isn't as nippy lower down the rev's.
Obviously once the k04 gets legs its very quick but by then your going too fast imo.
I think if you track the car then k04 yes
as the man said in a nut shel
Hmm a well tuned K04 car spools easily as well as a tuned K03, it's not my opinion it's a fact
I can overlay some dyno graphs if you like ?
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Personally i wouldn't swap. The k03 is so much more fun on UK roads. The k04 just isn't as nippy lower down the rev's.
Obviously once the k04 gets legs its very quick but by then your going too fast imo.
I think if you track the car then k04 yes
as the man said in a nut shel
Hmm a well tuned K04 car spools easily as well as a tuned K03, it's not my opinion it's a fact
I can overlay some dyno graphs if you like ?
Might be some help but in every gear it spools just as quick? To me feels very different to drive at low revs..
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Personally i wouldn't swap. The k03 is so much more fun on UK roads. The k04 just isn't as nippy lower down the rev's.
Obviously once the k04 gets legs its very quick but by then your going too fast imo.
I think if you track the car then k04 yes
as the man said in a nut shel
Hmm a well tuned K04 car spools easily as well as a tuned K03, it's not my opinion it's a fact
I can overlay some dyno graphs if you like ?
Might be some help but in every gear it spools just as quick? To me feels very different to drive at low revs..
I'll post a graph up tomorrow, I drive these every day, side by side 30mph in 4th a K03 car wouldn't pull on a K04 I guarantee it
I'm not trying to diss the K03's at all they're plenty fast enough at stage 2 just trying to guide you, maybe the K04 cars you drove were stock?
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im going off the conversion i had a k03 2+ and went to k04 with all the 2+ hardware
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My subjective opinion of K03 vs K04 is K03 spools quicker and feels quicker just rolling in high gear. Once I have K04 I find myself using lower gears than in K03. Both are very driveable
Paul
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im going off the conversion i had a k03 2+ and went to k04 with all the 2+ hardware
You've had some problems though haven't you?
If its done right It's a great upgrade, the stock K03 motor can't really handle the low down torque that's on tap from a stock K04 blower, we saw quite a few bent rods back in the early days, still got them somewhere.
A tuned Low comp K04 motor is way different in power delivery to a converted K03 car
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yeah they are resolved afaik, everything is as it should be hardware wise. And the apr map is a map that they don't tweak car to car from what i have been told.
Im not saying its not a great upgrade, just the power delivery is certainly different and feels like it comes further on in the rev range than the k03 did.
Maybe you should drive my car :grin: the fear being you tell me somethings not right!
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yeah they are resolved afaik, everything is as it should be hardware wise. And the apr map is a map that they don't tweak car to car from what i have been told.
Im not saying its not a great upgrade, just the power delivery is certainly different and feels like it comes further on in the rev range than the k03 did.
Maybe you should drive my car :grin: the fear being you tell me somethings not right!
Why did you go APR for your k04 and not Revo as you had on your k03?
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yeah they are resolved afaik, everything is as it should be hardware wise. And the apr map is a map that they don't tweak car to car from what i have been told.
Im not saying its not a great upgrade, just the power delivery is certainly different and feels like it comes further on in the rev range than the k03 did.
Maybe you should drive my car :grin: the fear being you tell me somethings not right!
Why did you go APR for your k04 and not Revo as you had on your k03?
Well....it was offered pretty much free, didn't involve driving to Sunderland and I some how convinced myself that the company it was with would turn on its heels and i'd get a better service :grin: oh how wrong i was.
Plus i can (for £50 and the garage fee) go back to revo at any time!
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Save your money, keep the KO3 and put your ££ towards a Diff and brakes. Really exploit the traction. Unless you just want straight line speed.
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I'd be more than happy to let any of you ride shot gun in mine.
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Save your money, keep the KO3 and put your ££ towards a Diff and brakes. Really exploit the traction. Unless you just want straight line speed.
....I couldn't agree more! :happy2:
There's nothing wrong with a K04 conversion but you are pushing the reliability envelope and will benefit more from improved handling. Power is no good without traction.
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There's nothing wrong with a K04 conversion but you are pushing the reliability envelope
You mention reliability Robin - I am not aware of any common wastegate problems with a K04, but there have been various cases with modified K03s. Could it be that too much is being asked of the the smaller turbo???
What do people feel would be safer from a reliability viewpoint; a Stage 2+ K03 or a AXX/BWA converted K04 running stage 3?
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There's nothing wrong with a K04 conversion but you are pushing the reliability envelope
You mention reliability Robin - I am not aware of any common wastegate problems with a K04, but there have been various cases with modified K03s. Could it be that too much is being asked of the the smaller turbo???
What do people feel would be safer from a reliability viewpoint; a Stage 2+ K03 or a AXX/BWA converted K04 running stage 3?
....I had a wastegate problem with my original K03 and had to replace it, which I did with another newer K03 and not a K04.
I'm not suggesting that the K04 is more or any less reliable but that the more you push/modify the performance engine of any car it potentially increases the risk of unreliability and that my personal advice would be to better spend the money on traction/handling mods such as QD also advocates.
Sorry if my post wasn't clear.
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....I had a wastegate problem with my original K03 and had to replace it, which I did with another newer K03 and not a K04.
I'm not suggesting that the K04 is more or any less reliable but that the more you push/modify the performance engine of any car it potentially increases the risk of unreliability and that my personal advice would be to better spend the money on traction/handling mods such as QD also advocates.
Sorry if my post wasn't clear.
Perfectly clear Robin :happy2:
I know about your K03 wastegate problem, as I am experiencing the same problem (also diagnosed by JKM) and I spent quite some time reading your posts on the matter. I do not believe that it is an isolated incident, as I have spoken to a couple of other gti owners that have experienced similar issues. A few went down the K04 route as a direct result, rather than swapping the K03.
I also totally agree with the traction & handling mods comments.
My question is a genuine one for the forum - what puts more stress on the engine & components; a highly tuned K03 or an AXX/BWA converted K04 (at say, a Stage 3 level of tune)?
Which would people say is more reliable?
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All depends on how its mapped. I am now on a k04 at 2+ and the car ran 340hp on the dyno, tbh the car is far more manageable now than it was before at 2+ k03 as power at peak was through the midrange and started to die off at around 6k rpm . Now it just flies round to 7.5k rpm. Still an animal in the wet though. I dont even bother when the roads are damp now.
that what im not to keen on with the k03. it all comes in a big lump in the midrange and then dies off by 5500rpm. i would prefer the power to just get stronger the higher the revs are. and use the whole rev range.
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that what im not to keen on with the k03. it all comes in a big lump in the midrange and then dies off by 5500rpm. i would prefer the power to just get stronger the higher the revs are. and use the whole rev range.
....My K03 Revo 2 starts to kick in solidly at ~1,800 rpm and I'm not wanting to push beyond ~5,500 before shifting gear.
I'm not saying it's better than a K04'd car but only that driveability doesn't suffer on mine and neither do I stress it by using high revs a lot.
Anyway, this has gone a bit off topic.
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yeah they are resolved afaik, everything is as it should be hardware wise. And the apr map is a map that they don't tweak car to car from what i have been told.
Im not saying its not a great upgrade, just the power delivery is certainly different and feels like it comes further on in the rev range than the k03 did.
Maybe you should drive my car :grin: the fear being you tell me somethings not right!
I'm not being funny, but your MAF figures seemed very low for a stage 2+ K04 car mind :stupid:
maybe thats the reason why you arent impressed?
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After having a K03 at stage 2+ tune with a proven 280 bhp, I can safely say it's a tad tame and dare I say it boring compared to a K04 with similar tune.
Yes a K04 spins in 4th in the wet but my god it makes you smile with the pull! I just could never see myself go back to a K03 tune.
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heres your logs vs mine when mine wasnt up to full health, before 3000rpm, your MAF values are a lot less
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fb150%2Fheavyd123%2F1-3.jpg&hash=e68e8a2eb78a50a400a68c3de0f8198458670d9a)
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdaz.co%2Fmedia%2Fb150%2Fheavyd123%2F2-2.jpg&hash=2795b7011e63a3753ff86cd40fc574ed6c51a787)
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Robin Take Gaz up on a run in his K03 to K04 converted car it's got awesome tractability and It's a screamer to the redline, you'd be well impressed by it, we set this one up ourselves , I spoke to Gaz today about how it would make a great track car, the pull to 7400 rpm is relentless, have you seen his dyno graph ? Torque building all the way up rather than the usual spike.
We've got more to do to it yet, the car runs in spec perfectly fueling and timing are very stable
I've set another K03 to K04 car up today it came in a bit of a mess, the chap had tried to fit a lot of stuff up himself but made a hash of it, we corrected the problems and this one goes well too, dyno tomorrow, I'll post the results
I'd guess right now it's running about 325-335 on our rollers, well see tomoz
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^^^^
Stevo, I've absolutely no doubt about what you say about the K03 to K04 converted cars you have setup - I know John Hurdy well and trust his judgement and praise of Statller.
But for me it's not at all about power. That's partly why, when my original K03 broke and I had the opportunity to go K04, I didn't and did handling mods (Quaife and KW V3 etc) instead. I simply don't want more power than I've got.
:happy2:
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I think what you imagine them to behave like and what they actually do behave like will sway you over. We need to let you have a good run around your fav circuit in one, think more V tech like power delivery not sluggy at all
I understand what your saying about chassis & trans mods we do this every day and it is super important even down to tyre pressures etc (that's why I laugh so much about the tyres some guys run :confused:)
I'll probably join in on the fun at the ring this year or next Tag along with Hurds (if you don't mind) :drinking:
:driver:
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I certainly wouldn't go back to a ko3 turbo after going ko4. I'm using the ko3 engine with a ko4 turbo stage 3 and it seems to hold the power longer up the rev range compared to stage 2+ ko4 engines, not sure of the lower down power though?
As for reliability, i fitted the ko4 at 50k and have 125k with no issues..