MK5 Golf GTI

All Things Mk5 => Modifications & Technical Area => Technical Workshop => Topic started by: E30Dom on August 20, 2012, 07:51:38 am

Title: Best Spring Rates?
Post by: E30Dom on August 20, 2012, 07:51:38 am
Does anyone know the spring rates of KW V3's or any other decent suspenison set up?

Cheers,

Dom
Title: Re: KW V3 Spring Rates?
Post by: E30Dom on August 20, 2012, 11:41:32 am
Or any way of finding out?
Title: Re: Best Spring Rates?
Post by: E30Dom on August 20, 2012, 10:53:50 pm
Think i found that VWR are 90-170 N/mm Front (progressive) and 70-170N/mm Rear (progressive)

Does this sound about right? Too stiff?
Title: Re: Best Spring Rates?
Post by: E30Dom on August 21, 2012, 08:28:06 pm
Anyone?
Title: Re: Best Spring Rates?
Post by: E30Dom on August 22, 2012, 06:12:31 pm
Is it better to go progressive or linear?

Will go 120N/mm front 100N/mm rear if Linear...
Title: Re: Best Spring Rates?
Post by: RedRobin on August 22, 2012, 06:18:02 pm
.
It doesn't answer your question directly, Dom, but I'm very happy with my VWR KW V3 ratings (dunno what they are though) and I think Mat_Ed30 has them too and I've never read anything negative about them from him.

Perhaps one of the workshops such as JKM or AKS can help answer your question which is best between progressive and linear. I guess it might depend whether you want them predominantly for track or fast road use....  I'm guessing!
Title: Re: Best Spring Rates?
Post by: Tfsi_Mike on August 22, 2012, 06:19:18 pm
My understanding is;

One of the benefits of linear is more room so increased wheel fitment choice. Less comfortable but more 'performance orientated'

Progressive, better manners on the road for daily use


I may soon be corrected though
Title: Re: Best Spring Rates?
Post by: E30Dom on August 22, 2012, 06:38:16 pm
Thanks guys, in that case I'll go progressive, and go with the ratings for the v3's / VWR set ups, and get them to valve the dampers to suit, along with plenty of adjustability...

Thanks guys! ;-)
Title: Re: Best Spring Rates?
Post by: RedRobin on August 22, 2012, 06:47:09 pm
^^^^
And I'm sure you won't have forgotten the need for proper alignment after fitting  :happy2:
Title: Re: Best Spring Rates?
Post by: GrayMK5GTI on August 22, 2012, 07:21:01 pm
^^^^
And I'm sure you won't have forgotten the need for proper alignment after fitting  :happy2:

I left my alignment about 6 months after fitting my H&R springs before I had it set up. Needless to say, car was much sharper and had much more grip after the alignment. It's amazing how much camber you get on the rear after lowering.

Graeme
Title: Re: Best Spring Rates?
Post by: E30Dom on August 22, 2012, 07:33:09 pm
Yep, no doubt be going to APS of Brackley for alignment...
Title: Re: Best Spring Rates?
Post by: E30Dom on August 23, 2012, 06:33:10 pm
Ok after a bit more research I learnt a few more things about springs rates...

Taking the VWR kit and KW Clibsport kits which are 90-170 front and 70-170 rear, this relates to 90n/mm spring rate over free length of 170mm and rear being 70n/mm.

This equates to something 500lbs front and 400lbs rear, which after talking to David at GAZ was a stiff track setup, which the two kits quoted are...

So after some delving, and some help from Hassan at Awesome Gti, he came back with info from KW that the V3's have a spring rate of 50.56n/mm front and 44.17n/mm rear which equates to 285lbs Front/250lbs rear...

As I wanted a slightly stiffere set up between the two, I have gone with 365N/mm front and 310N/mm rear, which is some 20% up on the V3's but no where near as stiff as Clubsports...

David will set up a good window of damping adjustment around these spring rates.

Let the 3week build time commence! ;-)
Title: Re: Best Spring Rates?
Post by: Tfsi_Mike on August 23, 2012, 06:50:33 pm
Question over on yer build thread Dom  :happy2:
Title: Re: Best Spring Rates?
Post by: RedRobin on August 23, 2012, 07:05:56 pm

Ok after a bit more research I learnt a few more things about springs rates...

Taking the VWR kit and KW Clibsport kits which are 90-170 front and 70-170 rear, this relates to 90n/mm spring rate over free length of 170mm and rear being 70n/mm.

This equates to something 500lbs front and 400lbs rear, which after talking to David at GAZ was a stiff track setup, which the two kits quoted are...

So after some delving, and some help from Hassan at Awesome Gti, he came back with info from KW that the V3's have a spring rate of 50.56n/mm front and 44.17n/mm rear which equates to 285lbs Front/250lbs rear...

As I wanted a slightly stiffer set up between the two, I have gone with 365N/mm front and 310N/mm rear, which is some 20% up on the V3's but no where near as stiff as Clubsports...


....That's interesting info, Dom  :drinking:

I know that VWR ordered 'custom' spring rates for 'their' KW V3's for my car but don't know the ratings and Mark Farmer is no longer with them.... "Hi Mark! I'm sure you remember my spring rates from over 3 years ago!?" < I don't think so!

Whatever rating they are the ride feels hard but never harsh and personally that's exactly what I want. None of that riding on a blancmange caccoon!

Not over lowering and proper alignment helps find the sweet spot.
Title: Re: Best Spring Rates?
Post by: drsilviuro on August 25, 2012, 01:12:21 pm
I just bought myself a set of VWR KW-V3 and I'm thinking now that they will be too stiff. These will replace my KW V2 which I love, but need more settings.
My car is a daily and twice a year I go to Hungaroring race track for some fun.
Can I order a custom spring for V3 to use it as day to day? Or how's the softest setting V3 compared with softest V2?
Title: Re: Best Spring Rates?
Post by: RedRobin on August 25, 2012, 02:52:10 pm

I just bought myself a set of VWR KW-V3 and I'm thinking now that they will be too stiff. These will replace my KW V2 which I love, but need more settings.
My car is a daily and twice a year I go to Hungaroring race track for some fun.

Can I order a custom spring for V3 to use it as day to day? Or how's the softest setting V3 compared with softest V2?


....I think it will all be down to how well your car gets setup with the V3's - Don't go to the very lowest adjustment. I haven't driven V2's (AFAIK) but I find my V3's absolutely spot on for fast road and haven't felt any problems with them on trackdays either.

I haven't felt the need to adjust mine but apparently it's fiddly and the Bilsteins adjust much more easily.
Title: Re: Best Spring Rates?
Post by: drsilviuro on August 25, 2012, 05:01:59 pm
You're telling me that you have the same adjustment for track and on the road? Isn't that to soft? My V2 on softest are a little bit harder than stock (I have an A3 with oem sport suspension) and don't like them on the track.
AFAIK Bilsteins have only one knob for adjusting compression and rebound at the same time. It might be more user friendly, but I like to experiment.
The only real problem is that I have to take off rear strut for settings.
Being progressive springs and rated same as Clubsports (linear), don't know how similar they are. I think more comfortable but who knows?!
Title: Re: Best Spring Rates?
Post by: RedRobin on August 25, 2012, 05:45:57 pm

You're telling me that you have the same adjustment for track and on the road? Isn't that too soft? My V2 on softest are a little bit harder than stock (I have an A3 with oem sport suspension) and don't like them on the track.


....Yes, I don't re-adjust them. Not too soft at all - I have other suspension and chassis mods which give me a very taut and tactile ride. On the rare occasions I do trackdays I don't go for lap times and just drive as I do on any road (whenever safe road conditions allow). Of course I can't ride speed bumps or potholes at more than about 5 mph I but don't want to anyway - My ground clearance is only 95mm.

The setup has been done professionally and not by me experimenting.

What is "comfortable" is very subjective. All the OEM 'Sport' settings on cars I have driven (VAG) don't satisfy me on the road. I've spent decades riding racing bicycles with no suspension and 150 psi on the road - I like to feel the road.
Title: Re: Best Spring Rates?
Post by: E30Dom on August 25, 2012, 08:03:54 pm
I found my V3's less crashy and rode better than standard on my R32, though gave a much taughter ride in the corners... Ride comfort is very subjective... I like my cars quite stiff, which is why I have to go with adjustable dampening... Couldn;t fit v1's say and know that's it, would wanna be able to stiffen them up which the dampening has more effect on...

Set up is key... Though unlike robin, i like to play, luckily the GAZ shocks have a simple dial on the rears and top adjustable on the front. :)
Title: Re: Best Spring Rates?
Post by: Tfsi_Mike on August 25, 2012, 08:20:57 pm

Is the valving in the shocks the same in V2 / V3?