MK5 Golf GTI
All Things Mk5 => Mk5 General Area => Topic started by: CocoPops on June 06, 2009, 10:14:35 pm
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Right...
So what options are there?
And how much?
Cheers,
PennilessPops (after todays mental spend anyway!)
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I was just about to post a similar thread :signLOL:
My understanding (in no particular order) some of the options are: -
APR
Autotech
KMD
AWE
I know JKM changed from suppling the Autotech to APR and that this a a thread explaining why somewhere.
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I was just about to post a similar thread :signLOL:
My understanding (in no particular order) some of the options are: -
APR
Autotech
KMD
AWE
I know JKM changed from suppling the Autotech to APR and that this a a thread explaining why somewhere.
I think JKM were supplying the KMD/Autotech pumps and experienced some quality control problems.
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I think that the relative cost of the Autotech ones was the issue. To supply a guaranteed quality pump they had to build-up and test each one on their own car first which was both time consuming and costly compared with the APR pumps which come ready tested and assembled :smiley:
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Has anyone heard of anyone in the UK who has ACTUALLY had a duff HPFP of any make?
If not, I wouldn't worry too much. :smiley:
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I've been told by a few reputable tuners that the APR pump is leagues ahead of the rest :smiley:
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I've been told by a few reputable tuners that the APR pump is leagues ahead of the rest :smiley:
Do they sell APR parts by any chance?
I have had Autotech on my car for over 15k miles now running it flat out.. It was taken off the car only a couple of hundred miles ago to be inspected for wear and it was perfect..
I think a lot of it is scare mongering on APR's part.. Thats why they get away with the price
.. Mine will probably sh*t itself now I have said that!
Anyways! I say go for whatever you want really, they all do the same job, and there certainly isn't a performance advantage with one fuel pump over another, not unless the map is requesting more fuel..
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I wonder if anyone actually knows if the stroke volume with each of these uprated pumps are identical or not
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Yeah the tuners in question have experience and sell both the APR and Autotech. They just commented that the quality of the components and general design of the APR was better.
I'm sure you're right in that they are all pretty much the same, and as long as you don't get a "friday pump" of either brand then it will be fine. :smiley:
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Yeah the tuners in question have experience and sell both the APR and Autotech. They just commented that the quality of the components and general design of the APR was better.
I'm sure you're right in that they are all pretty much the same, and as long as you don't get a "friday pump" of either brand then it will be fine. :smiley:
Too right! I think that the early Autotech pumps weren't great but they seem to have sorted it out now..
It would be interesting to try an APR pump myself to just see if there is anything different, I very much suspect not but would be interesting..
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I wonder if anyone actually knows if the stroke volume with each of these uprated pumps are identical or not
The Autotech internals I have looked at displace a larger volume than standard, thats how the pressure is increased.
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is anyone still selling the autotech HPFP option in the uk??
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iirc JBS Auto Designs does the AT pump kit.
http://www.jbsautodesigns.co.uk/index.html
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.....
Any particular reason why you need a HPFP, PennilessPops?
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Yes...
I want more power of course.
I want to run an intake (for sound as much as anything else) and therefore don't want to run the risk of running lean if the ecu demands more fuel based on the increased air intake and the pump can't provide etc.
Simples :D
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I want to run an intake (for sound as much as anything else) and therefore don't want to run the risk of running lean if the ecu demands more fuel based on the increased air intake and the pump can't provide etc.
....That I understand :smiley:
I'd like more intake sound too.
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Good post from JKM always worth read a when considering which pump
Hi guys, this is a copy of a post I done for another Forum as this has been asked before, and a few people have been asking this to us by Email etc recently. The botton line is, if you already have an Autotech or KMD pump supplied by us dont worry.
We stopped supplying pump internals some time ago now so some text below is a little out of date but will give you the 'history' so to speak.
JKM appreciate that some people would like to know more about why we have made the switch from KMD & Autotech TFSI fuel pump internals over to the complete APR pre built and tested unit.
Where we have been using KMD/Autotech internals I will detail what process we have been going through for each fuel pump prior to sending it out to a customer, so you will get a feel for the process that needs to be run through by JKM to ensure that the pumps are of sufficiently high quality to sell to a customer.
After receiving the fuel pump internals from the manufacture (say for example KMD) we first check the machined parts for known manufacturing problems by measuring and a general visual inspection – any problems here and the pump internals are rejected.
We then hand assemble the parts together and with a light lubrication between the piston and bore, the clearance and general feel is assessed. The internals are then hand assembled into a test fuel pump body - any problems here and the pump internals are rejected.
Assuming that all is good on the above, we can then begin an up rated fuel pump internal build into a brand new OEM pump.
Cleanliness is paramount here as any debris etc will ruin the piston shaft. This is something that we only do in an extremely clean environment to ensure the utmost quality.
Once the fuel pump is built, we then move onto the next main step – Testing.
To ensure that each TFSI fuel pump that we supply is of the highest quality we have been testing each pump built by JKM, on our own TFSI car.
Therefore every time we build a new pump Kates nice new shiny MK5 GTI is pulled apart and the test pump is installed for performance testing under load. Following the install we analyse each fuel pump in detail.
We will look at the fuel pumps Quantity Valve differential angle, Total Compression volume, Fuel pressure and more – again comparing the results against known good units.
With our experience of these pumps it is possible to analyse the results and detect possible problems with internal clearances as a result of machining tolerances, but this is a very complex area. If we suspect problems we will remove the fuel pump, disassemble and inspect it again – any problems found here and the pump internals are rejected.
Following all of the above, assuming that the built TFSI fuel pump is functioning correctly, we will remove the fuel pump from our test car, seal it into a bag and box it and send out to the customer.
The main reason we have chosen to swap from KMD/Autotech is that the above is very costly to us (time wise) to get a good pump together. We have sometimes had to build 3 pumps to get 1 good unit.
We appreciate quality engineering, which APR provide with their fuel pump,
Our equivalent of the APR test rig, is our own MK5 Golf GTI engine and our diagnostics knowledge.
(https://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jkm.org.uk%2Fperformance%2FMisc%2FMisc_Performance_pictures%2FAPR%2520Pump%2Fpumptest.jpg&hash=4a4a3a4a13e6a969530cb6281f0b904a8e5bd84c)
APR does have a superior hardware design, changing much more than just the piston and bore. The complete internals are re-engineered, right down to the balanced seal rings and main spring assembly. This design puts less stress on the rear balanced seal than the other pump solutions – the APR pump design is along the same route as the OEM pump only obviously containing larger internals for increased fuel volume.
APR route out bad pumps themselves during testing at their own facility, and the pumps have even been used by VW Motorsport on the VW Scirocco GT24 which won the ADAC 24h Race without any fault.
For those interested more information on this can be found here: http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3855643
JKM will only bring to market the quality items. If we find that the quality of an item is not acceptable we will first try and work with the supplier for a solution but ultimately if we would not be happy to use the product on our own car we will not sell it to a customer for use on their car.
For JKM the up rated internals route (only) is too inconsistent from the manufacturers.
APR provide a quality fuel pump out of the box, and the customer is in the knowledge that there will be no issues.
The APR pump can be bought in 2 ways.
1) An outright buy of an APR pump, where by you can remove your stock TFSI pump and retain it somewhere safe and simply install the APR pump. This route costs £624+Vat excluding postage back to you.
2) The second route is a core exchange but this can take up to 6 weeks to complete this process, where by if you send us your TFSI pump we will send it to APR for YOUR pump to be modified at the APR headquarters , this route costs £509+Vat excluding postage back to you and you are responsible for postage of your pump to JKM intially. However it does take a long time to complete this process due to the international shipping involved.
More information is at the following link: http://www.jkm.org.uk/performance/tfsipumps.htm
For those customers already with a JKM built KMD or Autotech pump, you do not need to worry as we have done the above testing process on your pump to ensure you have a good unit. javascript:void(0);
I hope this helps clear up the questions in this area and hopefully you will appreciate why we have made the switch to the APR unit.
For those who wondered, our own car does use an APR fuel pump but the K04 conversion car that has been on long term testing (27,000+ miles) has been, and is still using a KMD pump without fault due to the above testing process that we have performed.
Keith
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Yes...
I want more power of course.
I want to run an intake (for sound as much as anything else) and therefore don't want to run the risk of running lean if the ecu demands more fuel based on the increased air intake and the pump can't provide etc.
Simples :D
it probably won't make that much more power, but what it will do is fatten up your mid range torque so that would be worth modding for. :happy2: